rapids change

Sgrug

"Assault

Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again."

Hard to imagine a better way to disrespect a players time. Guess you consider those who farm and make multiple alts time not important.

[Edited title to remove Bashing]

nukk3r

It is done. You guys have been creating these threads for 5 weeks and it got you nowhere. They won't do anything about it, no matter how loud you are.

Donny_Vito

It's a trade-off. I've met Stam characters that despise PvP and were gimped because they could not use Vigor. They'll be very happy with this change because all they have to do is just enter PvP and they'll have it unlocked. So yeah, like everything else, pros and cons.

Berchelous

PLAY MORE, SPEND MORE!

L_Nici

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Sgrug

Donny_Vito wrote: »

It's a trade-off. I've met Stam characters that despise PvP and were gimped because they could not use Vigor. They'll be very happy with this change because all they have to do is just enter PvP and they'll have it unlocked. So yeah, like everything else, pros and cons.

Then make vigor second

Sgrug

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Not for 17 characters it is not

tmbrinks

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Please show us how you get it done in "less than 30 minutes"

Not during Midyear Mayhem... and not with a dedicated ball group you run with... since I don't think most PVE players have access to those groups.

SydneyGrey

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

Eliahnus

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

joerginger

Absolutely horrible change as was said time and time again here. Apart from my main, I have to level the PvP horror on all my other characters. This kills every desire to really play this game anymore.

Donny_Vito

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

abigfishy

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

itsfatbass

Definitely a silly SILLY idea. But like us giving our opinion about it matters AT ALL to ZOS. If they actually played their own game they'd already know this was a bad idea but they can't even handle a normal dungeon so.... here we are!

SpiderKnight

The switch is bugged anyway, lol.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/542667/rapid-manouver-locked-no-skill-point-refunded

TrelNord

I'll admit that it wasn't clear to me that characters that already had Rapids would lose rapids with this change but the math makes sense.

It doesn't affect me greatly given that my lower level characters are primarily mules anyway. I do have to say that I was surprised to see that the skill had been removed however.

Shame on me for not being a better consumer of the PTS patch notes and the ubiquitous woe and gnashing of teeth around this topic for the past few weeks.

I am positive that this is nothing that a visit to the Crown Store won't fix.

tmbrinks

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

nukk3r

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

AlnilamE

nukk3r wrote: »

It is done. You guys have been creating these threads for 5 weeks and it got you nowhere. They won't do anything about it, no matter how loud you are.

No, these are threads by the players that don't usually come to the forums and therefore didn't know about the change.

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

I will need to see this on video, because my experience helping guildies who don't PvP is about 3 hours to get from rank 3 to rank 5. Longer if the character wasn't rank 3 to begin with.

PandaPalace

They wouldn't have had the need to change them if classes had stam morph heals, lazy/bad change.

Tan9oSuccka

Sgrug wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

It's a trade-off. I've met Stam characters that despise PvP and were gimped because they could not use Vigor. They'll be very happy with this change because all they have to do is just enter PvP and they'll have it unlocked. So yeah, like everything else, pros and cons.

Then make vigor second

This.

I don’t really care (it’s easy to unlock the whole skill line) but this seems the most logical thing to do.

Rapids 1
Vigor 2

Done.

zaria

TrelNord wrote: »

I'll admit that it wasn't clear to me that characters that already had Rapids would lose rapids with this change but the math makes sense.

It doesn't affect me greatly given that my lower level characters are primarily mules anyway. I do have to say that I was surprised to see that the skill had been removed however.

Shame on me for not being a better consumer of the PTS patch notes and the ubiquitous woe and gnashing of teeth around this topic for the past few weeks.

I am positive that this is nothing that a visit to the Crown Store won't fix.

To buy the skill line you have to level it up to level assault up to 10 who is not something people who hate PvP will do.
Don't affect me I think, might be one one character who don't have assault 5 but doubt it and if I do I just join an zerg with an resto staff

EmEm_Oh

It does seem as if ZOS has, as other have argued for years, focused on stamina rather than magicka (i.e., penalizing mag builds even if not directly). Magicka-based movement for mag-specific builds would be a nice addition. I just don't see how stamina can be so versatile on builds, when it really shouldn't be.

Reading the new Rapids conditional requirement, it makes no sense. It's almost as if this is being done to LIMIT PLAYERS' MOVEMENTS in Cyro...thereby putting less strain on the servers. It's another short-term mitigation for players who have been requesting better performance.

Due to more players being reliant on transit shrines, ZOS might actually make the performance...worse.

If this is really what I think it is, and then adding the AOE mitigation, I think it's abundantly clear ZOS appears to be heavily resisting a change in the forward direction.

I suppose if a person really wants to play in Cyro, they'll manage with this new condition, and those who don't want to bother...won't. Which means the Cyro and IC events will be more tailored to those who seriously use those areas.

However, if the additional mounting person goes well, this would tend to give those mounts leveled to be the taxi for the under-leveled rapids player. For those who want to play in Cyro and have a low-stam mount, finding a ride in Cyro is an alternative you would not have had before...which could also be the reason for the rapids change.

Most of my players are already leveled in PvP, but a few are not, so I'll have to try this out and see how difficult it really is leveling with the new rapids requirement.

SydneyGrey

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

Your way of playing is not any more valid than anyone else's way of playing, so stop with the condescending attitude. You are not more important than anyone else.
I don't do roleplay, but I DO enjoy making a lot of alts for fun. This change just killed my desire to make more characters.

wolonggong

Game is barely holding on to me as it is and now they are going to force my alts to move slower?!?

And no, I will not PAY to unlock it or something similar.

[snip]

Either way, this is not a good sign and I am damn near to the point of walking away [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Jem_Kindheart

Sgrug wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Not for 17 characters it is not

I only started really PVP'ing this year. I got 10 characters to Alliance / Support 10 in just 1 month. Getting 17 chars to A/S 5 would take just a couple days.

Ratinira

nukk3r wrote: »

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch.

And that is why all in-game zones are pvp zones, and we are leaving pvp only to enter dungeon or trial... Oh, wait...

If that is how *you* play that does not mean everyone else play that way. And there are alot of other locations in game except Cyrodiil, dungeons and trials. It is easily seen just by opening the map

Intha1313

Doesn't even affect me and I think it was an ignorant and stupid decision. You really need to start listening to your player feedback .....

nukk3r

SydneyGrey wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

Your way of playing is not any more valid than anyone else's way of playing, so stop with the condescending attitude. You are not more important than anyone else.
I don't do roleplay, but I DO enjoy making a lot of alts for fun. This change just killed my desire to make more characters.

I never said that PvE/P players are more important, I said that they play the actual game the way it was designed, not spend the time chatting to other players. Why these changes should mean anything to roleplayers is beyond me.

Ratinira wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch.

And that is why all in-game zones are pvp zones, and we are leaving pvp only to enter dungeon or trial... Oh, wait...

If that is how *you* play that does not mean everyone else play that way. And there are alot of other locations in game except Cyrodiil, dungeons and trials. It is easily seen just by opening the map

That's how everyone I know plays this game. Do people really do the same zone quests over and over with dozens of toons?

ArchangelIsraphel

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

The concept of achievement is different for everyone. Some like to grind out gear. Others prefer to spend many hours creating complex stories and nuanced characters with individual personalities, which, believe it or not, takes just as much time and effort as grinding gear. This game is actually built to accommodate both styles of gameplay as many of its assets go into feeding the roleplay community, such as the housing system. It's primary activity is not PVP and dungeons. Its primary activity is -everything the game has to offer-, as all are, at some point, tied into each other.

The fact that this was done to Rapids was insensitive to the entire community. I don't merely speak on behalf of those that like RP. But as someone who also enjoys aspects of the game like PVP, I find the switch inconvenient because I'd rather blitz around Cyrodil to earn AP more quickly to eventually get vigor if I really need it. For those that play a magica character who don't PVP, it's extra annoying because you are having a skill taken away when you do not need or want vigor at all.

The fact of the matter is, many people want rapids because it makes the early game more fun, and more accessible to new characters with lower mount speed, and that should have been taken into consideration. Can having vigor make the early game more fun? Yeah, sure. But I'm not doing things on early-game stam characters that require it extensively (I'm not stepping into higher tier content with a new character until I am confident I can hold my own on it, and am geared properly)...and it's something that not every character needs, where as rapids is something all builds will likely use at some point to get around early game.

Sgrug

Jem_Kindheart wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Not for 17 characters it is not

I only started really PVP'ing this year. I got 10 characters to Alliance / Support 10 in just 1 month. Getting 17 chars to A/S 5 would take just a couple days.

I agree, the other posters point was that it only takes 30 minutes. Keep in mind that means several days PVPing which many are not very keen on. Let's be honest PVP players tend to be very trollish, it is not a socially uplifting experience, one can hardly be blamed for wishing to avoid such an environment.