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rapids change
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TESO_sb✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.Edited by Linaleah on August 26, 2020 7:53PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
I agree and you just eloquently explained how this change literally was done to benefit one class selecting one build where as the rapids change impacted a much larger cross section of the population. It stuns me that this happened.Edited by Sgrug on August 26, 2020 7:57PM8 -
DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭More on my PvE person’s quest to re-acquire rapids on my level 50 CP 1000+ magicka necro—this is my third day of trying to take an assault level 4 character to assault level 5. She was half way through the lvl 4 bar at the start (I.e., after the patch that stole her rapids), and after multiple hours still has about 15k AP to go (so much for the “oh, easy-peasy, you complainers can do this in half and hour).
Granted, I am not playing in prime time, but is Cyrodiil always so dead?? I’ve played during the day (mornings around 10-noon eastern) in the non-locked CP campaign and seen hardly anyone. Hard to join battles when nobody’s fighting.
Scouting missions (which are truly painful without rapids) and town quests don’t give much AP. Taking a resource gives slightly more (but today I got ganked by the first enemies I’d seen all morning just as the flag was turning, so no AP there). I mended a few doors — about 60 AP each tick for that, but since no one was fighting, they didn’t need much mending. Then I tried retaking a keep that a few enemies had seized while getting one of their scrolls back. That went well with the help of the only other person from my alliance that I’d seen all morning until we got ambushed, again while waiting for the second flag to flip. So no AP tick gained there, either.
Are we having fun yet?11 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.
Personally, if I do BGs to re-earn Rapids on each alt, I'm going to still try and win. But on some alts, I'm going to be terrible at it. Those two mules that don't have weapons and armor skills activated might be able to be basic templar healers with Bright Throats and New Moon.
I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn2 -
TESO_sb✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.2 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like
This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.
Your Math is off, to complete 87 Matches, will take 27 to 30 hours, depending on Queue Times.
You're right.
I divided instead of multiplied, due to inefficient caffeine intake. If you multiply 87 matches by 15 minutes, then divide by 60 minutes, you end up with about 22 hours. Again, assuming you're getting instant pops. And still relies on winning every match. PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS3 -
Kosef✭✭✭✭So my primary way of leveling alts has been to clear dolmens in each base zone and then do the public dungeon for said zone. Getting from dolmen to dolmen without rapids on lower toons has been down right frustrating. When I do pop an xp potion/scroll...the time is now being used less efficiently because of all the down time I have spent running from dolmen to dolmen. At least when I had rapids I was able to get from point a to point b relatively soon, even with a lower speed horse. This could have been so avoidable if we just gave both rapids/vigor at early stages via moving one or the other to the Fighters guild/support skill line.Server: PC-NAGuild:
Vincent Jurard - Breton - DK
Aronil Elsinwatch - Altmer - Templar
Ulfgar Stormbringer - Nord - Sorc
Ra'Jhera Mahrabi - Khajiit - NB
Kur Zahir - Imperial - Necro
Khur - Redguard - Warden
Lives-By-Sword - Argonian - DK
Sara Willowthorn - Bosmer - Templar
Elsa Bjariksen - Nord - NB
Soliril Elsinthar - Altmer - Sorc
Khargol Ogdum - Orc - Warden
Veros Sarvani - Dunmer - Necro
Vedran The Toxic - Dunmer - DK
Hafnar Ironbark - Nord Warden
Low - Level: Arcturus The Loyal - Templar
[Ninja Squirrels]7 -
johnebrown✭✭✭The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.
Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.
I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.
This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.
PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.
It is disturbing to have people that do not know you, or the effort you have put into the game, or how you play the game, make these kinds of assumptions.
I hate it when people state their opinion as fact.
You don't get to define what my gameplay should be.
AND
Nothing is done in zero time, so none of us have alts on which zero time was spent.
AND
ZOS sells Assault line upgrades, so out of 18 toons, I only need one *real* toon to be leveled and then if I have the money to buy crowns then it is okay to have my alt go real fast? ZOS seems to thinks so, but you seem to think not, I'm so confused.
AND
The vast majority of people here are not for purposefully ruining BGs for other people.5 -
johnebrown✭✭✭You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.
Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.
Relax guys, the sky is not falling.
PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.
er.. So I don't count? I'm not part of everyone? Can I really level 48 toons from Assault 2 to Assault 5 in 2-3 days? I don't think so. not even close. I feel so left out if everyone else can do it so easy.Edited by johnebrown on August 26, 2020 10:40PM4 -
johnebrown✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
True. There is the draining shot arrow skill that gives decent health back each hit as well as the dual wield morphs bloodthirst, Blood craze & deadly cloak. Take your pick. Just using bloodthirst usually keeps me alive. I'm a pretty crappy fighter, but did make it through maelstrom just using bloodthirst & healing potions.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.Edited by Linaleah on August 26, 2020 11:09PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
So to date the given reason for this change does not hold water which makes many wonder why such a change that was going to obviously garnish a lot of negative reaction.3 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.
Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.
I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.
This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.
PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.
It's not a slight effort to reach. Battlegrounds from my understanding doesn't net that much alliance points and the main way to level it cyrodil it takes forever to get anywhere without rapids.4 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.
Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.
Relax guys, the sky is not falling.
PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.
So you're claiming anyone who wants to use rapids must be a bot? So we're all just bots arguing that having rapids accessible to everyone without all that grind that would be easier to do with rapids? And I'm pretty sure it'll take more than 2-3 days tops for people unless they really grind till it burns them out. Even for pvpers this is bad cause like I said getting around cyrodil is a pain without rapids. And you saying everyone will have it in 2-3 days tops is just pure BS.8 -
TESO_sb✭✭✭Linaleah,Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
You begin to change the topic of conversation.
Initially, the question was about which class the newbie had insufficient treatment.
You gave the example of stamina nightblade. I wrote you 3 skills.
Now you start talking about level 50 and pressed the button and here it is happiness.
But if it's difficult content, you have to have healing on your team, right?
Again, if you are writing about level 50 and complex content, there are so many "advisors" how to do it in 30 minutes.
I ask you why this treatment is necessary for a beginner or a twink? Why is it more useful than speed when his horse moves a little slower than a turtle?Edited by TESO_sb on August 27, 2020 8:49AM4 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Linaleah,Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
You begin to change the topic of conversation.
Initially, the question was about which class the newbie had insufficient treatment.
You gave the example of stamina nightblade. I wrote you 3 skills.
Now you start talking about level 50 and pressed the button and here it is happiness.
But if it's difficult content, you have to have healing on your team, right?
Again, if you are writing about level 50 and complex content, there are so many "advisors" how to do it in 30 minutes.
I ask you why this treatment is necessary for a beginner or a twink? Why is it more useful than speed when his horse moves a little slower than a turtle?
A beginner could always use a resto staff, a beginner has NO practical way to increase speed. I see no support for the argument some stamina needed Vigor at the beginning levels, resto staff has always been available. The reason given for Vigor rings hollow and hides the real reason which is not being given and probably never will.5 -
TESO_sb✭✭✭Linaleah,Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
You begin to change the topic of conversation.
Initially, the question was about which class the newbie had insufficient treatment.
You gave the example of stamina nightblade. I wrote you 3 skills.
Now you start talking about level 50 and pressed the button and here it is happiness.
But if it's difficult content, you have to have healing on your team, right?
Again, if you are writing about level 50 and complex content, there are so many "advisors" how to do it in 30 minutes.
I ask you why this treatment is necessary for a beginner or a twink? Why is it more useful than speed when his horse moves a little slower than a turtle?
A beginner could always use a resto staff, a beginner has NO practical way to increase speed. I see no support for the argument some stamina needed Vigor at the beginning levels, resto staff has always been available. The reason given for Vigor rings hollow and hides the real reason which is not being given and probably never will.
well, they cannot directly write "pay the ZO$ as soon as possible with a crown coin"
So they come up with stories about how everyone needs this healing.4 -
Noggin_the_Nog✭✭✭OK - EVERYBODY CALM DOWN.
This is not a PvE/PvP argument.
The loss of rapids affects all players badly.
My low-level PvP alts are suffering even though I normally only start them when their mount speed is at least 30. It just takes too long to travel around that big map without rapids.
My PvE alts, even my Grand Master Crafter, are suffering - imagine collecting multiple surveys - it's like running in soup.
I counted up last night and have 17 alts over 3 accounts that have lost Rapids. It's going to takes months to regain their skill.
This change is obviously a marketing decision; forcing us to the Crown Store.
I have been Emperor and working on Grand Overlord. Have many alts on PvP skill rank 10, but there is no way in hell that I am going to give ZoS real money to buy the rest of my alts a skill that was stolen from them.
Try to have fun out there and stay safe.13 -
Anfieldkris✭✭✭I can understand people’s frustrations about losing something they previously had, especially after a lot of feedback saying ‘please don’t do this’. Personally as I pvp a lot on PS4 EU, I don’t have a strong opinion on the correct order of skills. However, the tinkering with things in the interest of ‘balance’ has caused quite a few long term guild mates to leave the game over the past 18 months or so, more to do with grinding gear, weapons etc again than anything else.
Without any hyperbole or saltiness, I managed to get to alliance 5 in 2 3/4 hours from first entering cyrodiil on a truly crappy build, and it wasn’t that hard. Here’s what I did.
Started a brand new character on PS4 NA where I had nothing at all, no gold, no CP, no access to any gear or crafting. Did the starter zones in Bleakrock and Bal Foyen, picking up whatever random armour dropped, the levelling rewards and the sky shards. Got to level 10, got a horse (with zero speed) and went into cyro in the busiest campaign with a few armour slots with nothing in and a level 9 prophet’s fire staff.
Did starter quest, skipping tutorial. Did town quests in Cheydinal and Bruma which only take a few minutes each but have shortest rides. Picked up more crappy armour to swap in and a delve buff for 20% ap bonus on one of the quests. Got to about level 13. After that I bought some oils and death spawned into Chalman (using an enemy resource) as it looked likely AD would attack with hammer, and defended. Killed five people with oils but got one shot as soon as I had to fight anyone. Reds defended and took hammer so got a decent tick. Followed hammer back down taking BRK, Sej and Alessia, but was too slow to get to resources each time so ran ahead of hammer so I could get there before keep was taken. Went and got another delve buff near Cropsford. Bought more oils and spent about an hour defending as AD pushed back up. Got killed a lot and had almost no remaining AP as had spent it on sieges. However, on a super crappy character with no advantages at all, was possible to get to rank 5 within 3 hours by being in a busy campaign and using siege gear, death spawns and delve buffs.
Seriously not sure I’d want to do that 48 times though.2 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »OK - EVERYBODY CALM DOWN.
This is not a PvE/PvP argument.
The loss of rapids affects all players badly.
My low-level PvP alts are suffering even though I normally only start them when their mount speed is at least 30. It just takes too long to travel around that big map without rapids.
My PvE alts, even my Grand Master Crafter, are suffering - imagine collecting multiple surveys - it's like running in soup.
I counted up last night and have 17 alts over 3 accounts that have lost Rapids. It's going to takes months to regain their skill.
This change is obviously a marketing decision; forcing us to the Crown Store.
I have been Emperor and working on Grand Overlord. Have many alts on PvP skill rank 10, but there is no way in hell that I am going to give ZoS real money to buy the rest of my alts a skill that was stolen from them.
Try to have fun out there and stay safe.
This exactly I've been saying this repeatedly. This screws over both pve and pvp players.6 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anfieldkris wrote: »However, on a super crappy character with no advantages at all, was possible to get to rank 5 within 3 hours by being in a busy campaign and using siege gear, death spawns and delve buffs.
How long would it have taken if you hadn't lucked out with the hammer and got a large D Tick, and the AP from three objectives from it?
And here's the thing. Even if for arguments sake, you can guarantee getting to Level 5 in 3 hours of PVP as it is now. You would get to level 5 faster than that had you been given rapids first, as you would be able to get to those delve buffs, those quests, and get to objectives 30% faster. So if the argument for supporting this change is "It doesn't take long to get rapids, so what does it matter?", well it was even quicker to get Vigor.6 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.
You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.
If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.
Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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May Sithis hold back his Void2 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.
You are making the assumption that is only PVEers that are against this change. It isn't.
9 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
So to date the given reason for this change does not hold water which makes many wonder why such a change that was going to obviously garnish a lot of negative reaction.
the tinfoil theory is - 2 seater mount is coming up to crown store, and those riding lessons weren't selling very wellLinaleah,Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!
sorry but which level 10 class has no treatment?
We can say that at 15th level, the player can take the staff of restoration if he has so little healing.
stamina nightblade mostly. they have sorta (very sorta most nighblade heals work on a basis of you essentially leeching health from your targets) trickle weak hot in magika line, but nothing genuinely decent. even then.. you DO have some healing options, they are just weaker then options for pretty much every other class. but every other class - does have VERY decent self healing options pretty early on. most will require that you use magika, but lets be honest here, if you are in a situation where you end up having to spam heal yourself? even with vigor you are going to run out of resources quickly enough and die. and what that was SUPPOSED to mean is that stamina nighblades specifically needed an overview and a fix.
stamina nightblade has treatment for:
1.pairs of weapons, the very first skill
2.blade of the assassin (class)
3. Absorption of the soul (class)
these skills open immediately and this heal is more than enough for the player who created the character and started pumping it.
hey, no argument there, its how I personaly leveled my own stamblade - as I said earlier, i didn't even GET vigor until she was lvl 50 for a while and I've been trying to figure out how to not suck so much on her and guides kept suggesting captrops (btw - I so miss prenerf caltrops...). its just those skills are dependent on leeching action, rather then just being outright heal. so it makes them appear a lot less effective, especially in "oh no" situations. other classes have burstier heals, more comparable to vigor, which mainly requires a slightly different playstyle on a nightblade - and that is FINE. and THAT only REALLY starts to get bad - NOT when you are leveling, but when you try to do harder content at max level. which... is why the whole "its to make it easier for stamina characters to level" reason for vigor swap is so nonsensical.
rapids make it easier to level for EVERYONE. including nightblades.
You begin to change the topic of conversation.
Initially, the question was about which class the newbie had insufficient treatment.
You gave the example of stamina nightblade. I wrote you 3 skills.
Now you start talking about level 50 and pressed the button and here it is happiness.
But if it's difficult content, you have to have healing on your team, right?
Again, if you are writing about level 50 and complex content, there are so many "advisors" how to do it in 30 minutes.
I ask you why this treatment is necessary for a beginner or a twink? Why is it more useful than speed when his horse moves a little slower than a turtle?
I'm not sure why you are trying to argue with me when we are literally saying the same thing?
I'm litteraly saying that rapids are more important for every class, especially early on. I'm not changing the subject, I'm saying that if vigor is needed at all, its NOT for a new player.
I'm simply not dismissing concern that nighblade do not have a burst heal. because they do not. and i'm sorry, but healing staff is not a solution. but neither is taking rapids away from everyone to give vigor to very few. so I'm honestly confused why you are trying to gotcha me, when we are ON. THE SAME. SIDE.Edited by Linaleah on August 27, 2020 3:13PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.
You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.
If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.
Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.
Just seems to be a literal case of "I don't want a solution, I want to be mad" when it comes to players suggestions to just grind out that AP.
We cant go and change the code back, only ZoS could. Everyone responding with the getting vigor shouldn't be/have been and issue as it used to stand, what is your end-goal? Is the thought something along the line of - We get a united front and they HAVE to listen to us?
An explanation behind their reasoning would be nice but as vMA showed, the community likely wont get it. Or the change you desire.1 -
Anfieldkris✭✭✭Anfieldkris wrote: »However, on a super crappy character with no advantages at all, was possible to get to rank 5 within 3 hours by being in a busy campaign and using siege gear, death spawns and delve buffs.
How long would it have taken if you hadn't lucked out with the hammer and got a large D Tick, and the AP from three objectives from it?
And here's the thing. Even if for arguments sake, you can guarantee getting to Level 5 in 3 hours of PVP as it is now. You would get to level 5 faster than that had you been given rapids first, as you would be able to get to those delve buffs, those quests, and get to objectives 30% faster. So if the argument for supporting this change is "It doesn't take long to get rapids, so what does it matter?", well it was even quicker to get Vigor.
Completely agree with you esotoon, with a levelled horse, access to gear, rapids it would have been much faster as you say. Would certainly have got to the resources around the keeps, and still reached the next keep in time. Was just suggesting that a crap character can do it in 3 hours through primarily defence, siege etc. There is a massive amount of exaggeration in this thread about things taking amount of time which is unrealistic, probably in both directions IMO.
0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.
You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.
If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.
Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.
You can't defend a keep if no one shows up. If you're on an alliance that has been pushed back to its 3 home keeps while the other two make efforts to dethrone/throne Emp around the ring, you're stuck trying to ride to where the action is. Sure, you can sit in your keep and hope that someone eventually comes for you, but that sure isn't a good use of your time.
Vigor in slot 1 does nothing for the "health" of PvP unless by health you mean easy kills from people who are only in Cyro long enough to get rapids. It's about as effective as getting people interested in PvP as the anniversary event and we all know how that goes. Killing people uninterested and unprepared does nothing for the health of PvP. As has already been stated, having rapids first is actually more helpful for people interested in Cyro because they can get to fights and participate.
PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
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vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.
You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.
If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.
Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.
Just seems to be a literal case of "I don't want a solution, I want to be mad" when it comes to players suggestions to just grind out that AP.
We cant go and change the code back, only ZoS could. Everyone responding with the getting vigor shouldn't be/have been and issue as it used to stand, what is your end-goal? Is the thought something along the line of - We get a united front and they HAVE to listen to us?
An explanation behind their reasoning would be nice but as vMA showed, the community likely wont get it. Or the change you desire.
I'm not sure spending a literal equivalent of a standard work week, just to get back a skill you've been using for years, on alts you've been using for years is a good solution.
they HAVE changed these balanced pass type things before, after community response (that they didn't back down on VMA doesn't discount the times when community DID manage to get them to change their minds), so its what people are hoping for.
my solution, personaly should the changes not happen? playing those alts less, which as a result means less gold to spend on crown stuff which indirectly means that ZoS gets less profit out of me. because i'm not going to spend THAT much of my gametime on something I only enjoy doing selectively, on specific characters when mood strikes me - on alts that are NOT set up for it at all. but that's just me.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.
You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.
If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.
Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.
Just seems to be a literal case of "I don't want a solution, I want to be mad" when it comes to players suggestions to just grind out that AP.
We cant go and change the code back, only ZoS could. Everyone responding with the getting vigor shouldn't be/have been and issue as it used to stand, what is your end-goal? Is the thought something along the line of - We get a united front and they HAVE to listen to us?
An explanation behind their reasoning would be nice but as vMA showed, the community likely wont get it. Or the change you desire.
I'm not sure spending a literal equivalent of a standard work week, just to get back a skill you've been using for years, on alts you've been using for years is a good solution.
they HAVE changed these balanced pass type things before, after community response (that they didn't back down on VMA doesn't discount the times when community DID manage to get them to change their minds), so its what people are hoping for.
my solution, personaly should the changes not happen? playing those alts less, which as a result means less gold to spend on crown stuff which indirectly means that ZoS gets less profit out of me. because i'm not going to spend THAT much of my gametime on something I only enjoy doing selectively, on specific characters when mood strikes me - on alts that are NOT set up for it at all. but that's just me.
Agreed they have changed things in the past that the community pointed out. The great DoT miscalculation. But the difference I see, that was imbalancing the game, to a hefty degree. I dont see rapids throwing everything out of wack.
In cold-blooded economics, someone else will probably buy those crates instead of you. The only thing that would really cause a money drain is cancelling subs or less players online. Servers have to run with 5 players or 500. Better on their end to have more players (in so far as the poor hamsters can handle) so the interest stays up.3