The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 10.0.2 is available.
Crit Nerfs incoming?
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Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »We feel that crits, percentage chance, casting skills, using la, fluid gameplay, ability to block while sprinting, playing with friends in bgs, playing alone in cyrodiil, cp, animations, housing, trade guilds and logging in are causing major server lag. So instead of using our product we would like you to just by crates, understand that you didn't when anything and buy more.
Please if your MMO can't handle a random number generator, I'm sorry there is a problem with your coding.
If they would just ease up a couple million on the CEO bonus checks this quarter they could upgrade the server hardware to satisfy demand and not have to erase 6 years of game design just to avoid spending a little of the massive profits they have made from all the increased player base.
My favorite thing is they said stacking crit was too easy. Mag literally runs a full set of crit runs precise and most classes might even move to the thief.
Stam wears all medium uses a dagger and now is using ay...
Easy to stack crit-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....5 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Im a bit torn on a crit nerf i feel like yes bring the nerfs nerf the chance and the damage crit does because as it stands now 80% of the sets that dont offer 1-2 crit buffs per set pretty much insta trash game focusing to hard on crit meta if they scaled it back source and damage some of these alternate even hybrid builds could shine a lil. But thats not to say a ton of builds wont take a knee cap hammer to deal with the nerf..1 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mettaricana wrote: »Im a bit torn on a crit nerf i feel like yes bring the nerfs nerf the chance and the damage crit does because as it stands now 80% of the sets that dont offer 1-2 crit buffs per set pretty much insta trash game focusing to hard on crit meta if they scaled it back source and damage some of these alternate even hybrid builds could shine a lil. But thats not to say a ton of builds wont take a knee cap hammer to deal with the nerf..
That is a terrible "cancel culture" style of gameplay design.
Smashing everything that is fun and good does not make garbage smell any better.
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ebix_✭✭✭✭lol
in their eyes everything but server performance and games balance is an issue ,
their logic will be something like : since server have to calculate crit chance and crit damage on every attack , our cute little "mEgA" server cant handle it ,so because we care SO MUCH about games performance we gonna add 10seconds global cool down for crit .
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Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS be like man those BFB changes and Thrassian weren't enough...
Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.3 -
Calypso589✭✭✭I do not understand this combat dev team.
They wanna make a pass on crit sourcing? That's cool. Let's take a look.
But knowing they plan to do that, they add Elemental Catalyst AND bury the Medusa set in crit?
Like, what?
And we've got an alleged CP rebalance hanging over our heads as well.
Why the flippin heck isn't CP taking priority here? Does everything not feed into it?
Brian? Hello? Details?
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Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Calypso589 wrote: »I do not understand this combat dev team.
They wanna make a pass on crit sourcing? That's cool. Let's take a look.
But knowing they plan to do that, they add Elemental Catalyst AND bury the Medusa set in crit?
Like, what?
And we've got an alleged CP rebalance hanging over our heads as well.
Why the flippin heck isn't CP taking priority here? Does everything not feed into it?
Brian? Hello? Details?
I feel like zos creates their own job stability finally gets something working right but instead of meaningful content, zones, dungeons trials amd classes they just keep tilling the soil making an artificial job demand by rehashing the same skill every 3 months and once the same skill has been tweaked to death biff it back up to start the process over again.Edited by Mettaricana on August 10, 2020 8:01PM10 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭Hm. Other people mentioned it too; the few sources of balancing the critical strike and damage/heal mechanic is limited.
For instance,
- base critical damage/heal modifier
- removal or reduction to CP passive
- armor passives to improve critical strike
- weapon dual-wield passive (daggers)
- racial (khajiit)
- class passives (NB, Templar, Necro, etc.)
- armor set bonuses to critical strike
- minor/major berserk/prophecy
- skills returning minor/major berserk/prophecy
- minor/major debuff to criticak strike or damage
- critical resistance
- normal resistances in the algorithm to calculate critical damage
This is just a soft touch in the areas that would be reviewed; it would be a interesting upcoming change that may drop the ceiling on dps and burst damage across the board.Edited by Sahidom on August 10, 2020 8:08PM0 -
AMeanOne✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Can we please stop smashing the entire game for everyone with a lurch hammer just because a few guys in PVP have a "meta?"
Crit is not meta in pvp. Its meta in pve. This is a pve change.4 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Can we please stop smashing the entire game for everyone with a lurch hammer just because a few guys in PVP have a "meta?"
Crit is not meta in pvp. Its meta in pve. This is a pve change.
I'm not so sure. Crit Resistance is meta in PvP, and the reason is that even the base level Crit people get without building for it is enough to be devastating against someone without resistance. The net result is that Crit builds are nonviable in PvP only because everyone is already building for Crit resistance.
Based on ZOS's description of the problem, my take is the this is what they want to address, not the fact that Crit is the PvE meta (although I would be happy if they addressed both).
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I imagine the way they’re thinking is they’ll nerf common crit sources like Major Prophecy, CP passives and the base crit. Then they’ll buff crit sets further to make up for it. So if you don’t specifically build for crit you’ll have a low crit chance.
If it all nets out that’s fine, doubtful they can deliver this without a screw up.2 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So I actually approve of this, conceptually.
That said, what ZOS seems not realize is that simply reducing Critical CHANCE is not going to have the effect that they desire.
This is basically the same mistake as their repeated nerfing of Impenetrable as a trait because it was "too popular" in PvP. The outcome of that change was not fewer people running Impenetrable... it was, in fact, the complete opposite, where Impenetrable became even more valuable since you needed even more of it to reach the same level of protection as before. This is so because the disireability of obtaining Critical Resistance (e.g. not dying) did not change, all they did was make it harder to achieve it and that, in turn, did nothing to help the relative competitiveness of the other equipment traits.
So ZOS needs to reduce the desireability of Criticals not simply Critical Chance. And that means nerfing Critical Damage and its scaling. Knocking down the base Critical Damage coefficient to 1.25x damage would be a good place to start, followed by increasing the "per bonus" allotment of stats for Weapon/Spell Damage as well as Stamina/Magicka on equipment.
In other words, you need to increase the desireability (e.g. the damage output) of diversifying into the competing damage stats so that players are incentivized to actually choose them instead of mindlessly stacking Criticals.
Changes made to Critical Damage should not go so far as to eliminate Critical-based builds from viability, however. But it should limit their attractiveness to certain classes and races and only then when you build especially for it. That is good RPG design, where different configurations of races and classes are better at certain things than others and where good builds accentuate those inherent advantages rather than ignoring or fighting against them.5 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭honestly all they need to do is change some crit buff, major/minor proph? to be % based and you're golden.
crit builds still have high crit, non crit builds lose crit.
The big issue is this. Crit builds are currently the PvE meta. If you nerf non crit builds then there are just less non-viable builds.
Who are they helping if they just remove 10% crit chance from everyone who isn't running a crit build?
Seriously, who benefits from that?
Edited by Tannus15 on August 10, 2020 9:39PM1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why does this audit never end..? Why do "fixes and passes" on things that were not broken and on mechanisms that people like and been having fun with? Just why?
Like 2 years of changes back and forth.. is not enough already?9 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭Proc sets don't crit, malacath removes crit. This is obviously the meta they're artifically manufacturing. The easiest way to force people into it is by making any crit based builds less appealing than proc set/malacath builds.
Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
AD PvP
Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wow. People need to relax.
We get angry at them when they don't provide dev comments to explain their reasoning and when they do everyone *** on them for it.
They're probably referring to the fact that in pve you don't even need to build for crit and any build can get 50%+ which is a combination of Armor, CP, Minor/Major Buffs, etc.
They want your choices to mean something, so I'm willing to bet they're just going to move some of those bonuses to armor instead.PC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit2 -
Vordac✭✭The problem with Malacath is that if you make the change to allowing it to affect only crittable sources then the set is worthless. Worse than if you ran no set at all (assuming you a have a crit rate less than the easily achievable 50% and even less with crit damage buffs through cp). It's viability in pvp only comes about because of the effect of impen. The set overall (and their reticence to curb its impact) make more sense in light of plans to do a blanket nerf to rate and damage. Given it is a common multiplicative variable applied to any dps calculation it makes sense they'd play with it to tone back pve dps to whatever bench mark they are looking for.
I expect they'll just gut the base crit/but increase the bonus of sources (ala elemental catalyst and others they may add in the future) so you have to build for it a little more. Malacath then makes sense as a viable choice for non-crit based builds (although crit will still be king in a coordinated group for pve)?0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theres just too much upheaval and build changing fatigue to be ok with much of anything being changed more and more. Especially if the best reason is "because we want it to be" without really much of the community feeling there's an issue
That's the problem. Being upended every 3 months. And let's act like APM is the barrier to new players when we cant even give new players something to work for because it will be wrong in 3 months.10 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭The problem with Malacath is that if you make the change to allowing it to affect only crittable sources then the set is worthless. Worse than if you ran no set at all (assuming you a have a crit rate less than the easily achievable 50% and even less with crit damage buffs through cp). It's viability in pvp only comes about because of the effect of impen. The set overall (and their reticence to curb its impact) make more sense in light of plans to do a blanket nerf to rate and damage. Given it is a common multiplicative variable applied to any dps calculation it makes sense they'd play with it to tone back pve dps to whatever bench mark they are looking for.
I expect they'll just gut the base crit/but increase the bonus of sources (ala elemental catalyst and others they may add in the future) so you have to build for it a little more. Malacath then makes sense as a viable choice for non-crit based builds (although crit will still be king in a coordinated group for pve)?
I not fully following what you mean. It's sounds like your saying they need to lower crit damage across the board in order to make Malacath more viable, because as it is now it's only viable vs Impen?
I don't see a need for that as what makes Malacath have to be balk tier everywhere? Isn't it nice that it's found a place among procs vs impen.
Also I'm not sure about the syntax of your first two sentences. If malacath were to do the inverse of what it does now and only effect crits how is that useless? It's 25% extra damage on crit builds. If your simply saying it by itself without procs is mathematically worse than base crit damage, your're neglecting that it's found a place with proc sets.
I wouldn't balance the whole game around mythics. I'd balance the mythic to the game. Why, nerf New Moon now?
Another option buffing Major berserk a bitEdited by Pinja on August 11, 2020 1:17AM0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is beyond me why combat devs don't want to share roadmap for planned changes. Hate that after every couple months they show up with next [snip] idea.
[Edited to remove Bashing]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 11, 2020 12:09PM3 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Adding base Critical Resistance to monsters would be another, less-invasive way of steering some players away from stacking Criticals.
Basically, if you gave monsters a high enough amount of innate resistance, then only races and classes that already were slanted in that direction (e.g. Khajiits, Nightblades, Templars, magWardens) would still get sufficient damage out of Criticals that other classes and races would find it more profitable to focus on Weapon/Spell Damage or max resources instead.
I'm not sure what the break-point would be: maybe like 20% resistance for normal and 40% resistance for veteran? Possibly higher?
It would actually be even more interesting if the amount of resistance depended upon the individual boss so that some fights would still be fantastic for Criticals while in others it would be an exercise in futility for all classes. That would give the game some much-needed depth as an RPG above and beyond the brute-force imposition of fight mechanics.3 -
ganzaeso✭✭✭✭This would be insane to lower crit chance. You literally have to build into it and the more you do the less actual offense you have. You completely rely on an RNG chance to keep damage up.
I started the game with 8 Khajiit thinking the 8% crit chance was something useful, then it was replaced with a crit damage modifier which I thought was terrible trade off. Then I figured out how to build up that crit chance and make use of the passive.
Now ZOS is hinting that they want to reduce the effectiveness of that passive yet again without considering how it will unbalance previous changes to the racial passives.
i have been playing this game for 4 years, but it is starting to get ridiculous how vindictive design decisions are being made.(Math before coffee, except after 3, is not for me)3 -
sentientomega✭✭✭It's hard enough trying to get 50% crit chance with heavy armour and major prophecy/savagery and 5/5 Julianos/Hundings and 5/5 NMA, the last thing that needs nerfing is crit chance.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is not about performance. They change combat mechanics so people stay interested into game. No meta shifts = boredom (from their perspective ofc) = less money. That's why those balance swings will never end
Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Czekoludek wrote: »It is beyond me why combat devs don't want to share roadmap for planned changes. Hate that after every couple months they show up with next (often stupid) idea.
Probably because at the moment it's just an idea or something they speak about and nothing that look like a plan has beed written yet ?
Forum people are just drama-queen as always.
[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]2 -
satanio✭✭✭✭
Was there ever any plan?Czekoludek wrote: »It is beyond me why combat devs don't want to share roadmap for planned changes. Hate that after every couple months they show up with next (often stupid) idea.
Probably because at the moment it's just an idea or something they speak about and nothing that look like a plan has been written yet ?
Forum people are just drama-queen as always.
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Celestro✭✭✭sentientomega wrote: »It's hard enough trying to get 50% crit chance with heavy armour and major prophecy/savagery and 5/5 Julianos/Hundings and 5/5 NMA, the last thing that needs nerfing is crit chance.
Uh why should attaining that much crit while wearing Heavy Armor be that easy.3 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait wait, so they add 5%~ crit to Berserking warrior in the PTS notes, but want to lower the crit over all in game? :clap clap clap:
That's how they balance these days: introduce an OP set, then nerf everyone else not using it to compensate. Then pretend to be surprised when balance is garbage.
The next patch is nothing but a nerf for a large portion of the playerbase, and they will understand the repercussions of their terrible balancing strategy when they lose even more customers.
No one is asking for these nerfs, no one wants them, and no one gains anything from it. It won't make unimaginative content more difficult, just longer and more boring, and that means it won't be run as often and more people will simply use their time elsewhere.
Me? After seeing how templar got ravaged, I rather hit the gym than touch this game and haven't logged for two weeks.2