Snipe Desync

Sanctum74 · July 2020

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

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SmukkeHeks wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

I have never noticed any kind of insta death by my focused aim. It has a brutal opening, we can agree to that, but it needs at least a couple of follow ups before enemy is gone.

Most snipers are fragile, which makes the damage defendable. Enemy needs to be either badly hurt or preferably dead before getting too close for comfort.

I couldn’t say if someone figured a way of some exploitation or cheating with snipe. I wouldn’t be surprised, reason events taken into consideration

The sniper doesn't perceive it as instant because they still need to cast 3 or 4 skills for it to happen. It is perceived as instant by the target when snipe desyncs and all those skills land as the same time.

As it is with all the other broken skills.

Which again leads us to: it’s not snipe. It’s the game. It’s broken. They don’t know how to fix it.

No it’s just snipe

No it happens with all skills even seige. We need the game fixed not nerfing skills.

Vietfox · July 2020

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

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MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

I can count on one hand how

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

I have had enough of snipe as a whole especially this patch, the massive range of it combined with new sets that make it even stronger is bad enough but on top of that it desyncs your health bar so you have no time to react. Zenimax always seems to be nerfing skills because they promote toxic gameplay but to me snipe is the ultimate "i win" button. If sniping took some skill to use it would have been nerfed to hell years ago (just like dizzy, flame reach etc etc). I find it really ruins gameplay sometimes and im sure ill get a lot of L2P comments but seriously no amount of L2P can counter a snipe desync during a fight. Do other people agree? If your not going to nerf the skill (that does more damage than most other skills and has the highest range in the game) atleast adress the desync.

What platform do you play on? I can count on one hand how many times I've been killed by snipe in the past two years. This game has many things that desync and its very noticeable on things that do a lot of damage such as snipe, meteor, dizzy, bugs, the list goes on. If you are dying to snipes all the time you need to change something up. Are you in CP or no-cp? You need higher passive resistances and defenses, more hp, invest in the CP line that lowers damage you take from direct damage attacks. If they are close enough bash them to interrupt the snipe. If you even hear an arrow sfx dodge roll.

I primarily BG. I die probably about one time per match on average to snipe desync in deathmatches with a dedicated snipe desync-er on an opposing team. So in a given play session, we are looking at like 2 or 3 deaths to snipe desync. While it is not constant, it feels dirty enough each time it happens to be infuriating.

Also, I know how to counter play it. But there are plenty of players who don't. And "good' snipe deyncn-ers will capitalize. I will frequently see them get 10 to 15 kills with 2, 1, and often 0 deaths. It's a cowardly way to play, relying on a skill that so busted. I really don't know why this issue hasn't been addressed.

Sounds like if they fix the desync issue snipe will need a nice sized buff imo.

Absolutely not. Assuming the desync was fixed snipe would be fine as it is, doesn't need a buff.
I can see why someone called "gankstein" would like to see it buffed, but you can still do well with the current snipe.

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

I can count on one hand how many times I've been killed by snipe in the past two years.

Yeah, that's probably because other gankers aren't a common target for snipe users since they spend most of the time in stealth.

Metemsycosis · July 2020

+1

I think the damage is fair. I've had snipe on me while the game was working well and while dangerous and pesky just doesn't pose the same threat as when you take 3 snipes and get stuck in cc, dead.

Let people play the game, fix this issue.

rfennell_ESO · July 2020

Funny to see this still being a problem after all this time.

Overall the queued attacks are likely the culprit. Mostly being the fact the queueing is done before the attack and the attack itself has a travel time.

A fair bit of the "teh snipeR desinked me" posts are not desyncs. The true desync was when you are hit with everything at once with no real warning it's happening (you might want to note that many cries of desync are not accompanied by timestamps, if it's a real desync everything will have the same timestamp). No doubt that it occurs like that, but it's likely just happy timing with a lag burst on server. From my experience many of the desync complaints revolved about a poor understanding of the mechanics of ranged attacks with travel time.

To explain: The typical bowganker will get you at max range with their snipe (meaning no light attacks or heavy attacks) and will queue snipes. This is animated as an arrow that travels to the target if los is established at cast and at conclusion at cast (no los is need between start of cast and conclusion). This arrow, once launched, ignores los as the los checks have already been resolved. You can have multiple arrows "in the air" at the same time (you can, with distance, actually have 3 airborne at a time). A fair amount of the time the initial hit occurs and registers and the person attempts to block los (which doesn't work as the animation of the travelling arrow does not need los). They move out of los and then start raging as the animation (the arrow) still hits them (and sometimes more than 1). They claim desync and accuse archer of intentionally desyncing.

The final point is all the los checks on arrows in the air have already been resolved before any damage is taken. That's when they move in and light attack-> poison injection as they were typically out of range to use either at launch. A lot of time (and done properly frequently) the target will take a snipe and light attack poison injection and then another snipe in a small window of time. The sequence takes longer than the damage portion of it (and is even shorter if you are moving toward the sniper). This occurs because the arrows in air have a travel time and light attack->poison injection does not.

The sheer amount of players sitting on siege that I lined up on and queued snipes and watched as they dropped off siege and moved to prevent los and then died from arrows that didn't need los is staggering. The raging and accusation from those targets was both common and accusatory. Thing is there was nothing at all done that was exploitive.

Toc de Malsvi · July 2020

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Funny to see this still being a problem after all this time.

Overall the queued attacks are likely the culprit. Mostly being the fact the queueing is done before the attack and the attack itself has a travel time.

A fair bit of the "teh snipeR desinked me" posts are not desyncs. The true desync was when you are hit with everything at once with no real warning it's happening (you might want to note that many cries of desync are not accompanied by timestamps, if it's a real desync everything will have the same timestamp). No doubt that it occurs like that, but it's likely just happy timing with a lag burst on server. From my experience many of the desync complaints revolved about a poor understanding of the mechanics of ranged attacks with travel time.

To explain: The typical bowganker will get you at max range with their snipe (meaning no light attacks or heavy attacks) and will queue snipes. This is animated as an arrow that travels to the target if los is established at cast and at conclusion at cast (no los is need between start of cast and conclusion). This arrow, once launched, ignores los as the los checks have already been resolved. You can have multiple arrows "in the air" at the same time (you can, with distance, actually have 3 airborne at a time). A fair amount of the time the initial hit occurs and registers and the person attempts to block los (which doesn't work as the animation of the travelling arrow does not need los). They move out of los and then start raging as the animation (the arrow) still hits them (and sometimes more than 1). They claim desync and accuse archer of intentionally desyncing.

The final point is all the los checks on arrows in the air have already been resolved before any damage is taken. That's when they move in and light attack-> poison injection as they were typically out of range to use either at launch. A lot of time (and done properly frequently) the target will take a snipe and light attack poison injection and then another snipe in a small window of time. The sequence takes longer than the damage portion of it (and is even shorter if you are moving toward the sniper). This occurs because the arrows in air have a travel time and light attack->poison injection does not.

The sheer amount of players sitting on siege that I lined up on and queued snipes and watched as they dropped off siege and moved to prevent los and then died from arrows that didn't need los is staggering. The raging and accusation from those targets was both common and accusatory. Thing is there was nothing at all done that was exploitive.

Well this, and there are many times that there is an arrow sound or debuff pop up long before you drop dead. I ran around on a stam DK without cloak for years and was rarely ever snipe de-synced.

Most of the time as soon as you see the debuff or hear a sound, just dodge roll and vigor.

Real de-syncs do happen, but not as often as those raging from them would make you believe.

But like I said before. This won’t go away cause the nature of snipes use makes it an obvious offender. Snipe often kills you, desync or otherwise, when you are not expecting to die. Snipe often kills in spammed burst. This makes it easy and clear to identify desyncs. It also causes it to be blamed more even when it doesn’t actually desync.

Beardimus · July 2020

Vietfox wrote: »

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MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

at least adress the desync.

At least? That's the only thing that should be done. No need to nerf a skill if the problem is related to performance.

Or be consistent as that's EXACTLY what they did with rune cage. They made it strong skill was broken, they didn't fix it just gave it 4 nerfs, no one uses it now.

At this point tho I'd prefer they did that to snipe as well as they clearly can't fix it

Beardimus · July 2020

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

I have had enough of snipe as a whole especially this patch, the massive range of it combined with new sets that make it even stronger is bad enough but on top of that it desyncs your health bar so you have no time to react. Zenimax always seems to be nerfing skills because they promote toxic gameplay but to me snipe is the ultimate "i win" button. If sniping took some skill to use it would have been nerfed to hell years ago (just like dizzy, flame reach etc etc). I find it really ruins gameplay sometimes and im sure ill get a lot of L2P comments but seriously no amount of L2P can counter a snipe desync during a fight. Do other people agree? If your not going to nerf the skill (that does more damage than most other skills and has the highest range in the game) atleast adress the desync.

Fix it, if you can't nerf it. Enough is enough with this skill.

@MCBIZZLE300 be warned tho you have just summoned the snipe glitchers who will defend and flame you.

sproattt · July 2020

Been saying this since snipe got our of control. 9/10 deaths has a snipe or 2 on you're recap. With all the nerfs to classes, to healing and mitigation still being heavily relied on in PvP no wonder snipers are plaguing open world cyro. The sad thing is Snipe ganking is more effective than actually playing the game as intended. ZoS has brought this upon themselves, with PvP performance being abysmal most days and Templar and Necro being the only class you face in cyro I can see why Nightblades are being forced into this playstyle.

Easy fix.

Snipe -move it to the nearer end of the bow skill tree, and or once you fire a snipe at an enemy you become decloaked. Simple. However, ZoS won't touch snipe. They will NERF Nightblades passives to suit the players being ganked instead of addressing the root of the issue. They will add a cost increase per shade use, similar to Sorcerer's Streak I think.

rfennell_ESO · July 2020

sproattt wrote: »

Been saying this since snipe got our of control. 9/10 deaths has a snipe or 2 on you're recap. With all the nerfs to classes, to healing and mitigation still being heavily relied on in PvP no wonder snipers are plaguing open world cyro. The sad thing is Snipe ganking is more effective than actually playing the game as intended. ZoS has brought this upon themselves, with PvP performance being abysmal most days and Templar and Necro being the only class you face in cyro I can see why Nightblades are being forced into this playstyle.

Easy fix.

Snipe -move it to the nearer end of the bow skill tree, and or once you fire a snipe at an enemy you become decloaked. Simple. However, ZoS won't touch snipe. They will NERF Nightblades passives to suit the players being ganked instead of addressing the root of the issue. They will add a cost increase per shade use, similar to Sorcerer's Streak I think.

After that cast completion you are decloaked.

CompM4s · July 2020

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Dr_Ganknstein · July 2020

CompM4s wrote: »

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Snipe in itself is a mediocre skill. You have to run a gank build to make it do decent damage. Its a great combo opener much as dizzy swing is. I think the problem with desync is that the victim is taking more damage then the hp they have in such a short amount of time that on their end it appears that they should have been able to counter it when in fact they were dead before their xbox/ps4/pc realized it. I get desynced by all kinds of things, it happens.

SodanTok · July 2020

CompM4s wrote: »

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Agree, those 2 skills are clearly superior in every way. Snipe doesnt even make it to top10 skills people want to use.

Dr_Ganknstein · July 2020

SodanTok wrote: »

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CompM4s wrote: »

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Agree, those 2 skills are clearly superior in every way. Snipe doesnt even make it to top10 skills people want to use.

Exactly. How many 1vX videos have you seen with people using snipe? Aside from Midyear Mayhem of course 😅

Bergzorn · July 2020

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

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sproattt wrote: »

Been saying this since snipe got our of control. 9/10 deaths has a snipe or 2 on you're recap. With all the nerfs to classes, to healing and mitigation still being heavily relied on in PvP no wonder snipers are plaguing open world cyro. The sad thing is Snipe ganking is more effective than actually playing the game as intended. ZoS has brought this upon themselves, with PvP performance being abysmal most days and Templar and Necro being the only class you face in cyro I can see why Nightblades are being forced into this playstyle.

Easy fix.

Snipe -move it to the nearer end of the bow skill tree, and or once you fire a snipe at an enemy you become decloaked. Simple. However, ZoS won't touch snipe. They will NERF Nightblades passives to suit the players being ganked instead of addressing the root of the issue. They will add a cost increase per shade use, similar to Sorcerer's Streak I think.

After that cast completion you are decloaked.

No, you are not. Nothing else involved, the sniper is pulled out of stealth the moment Snipe hits and does damage. Unstealthing them the moment the snipe cast completes would be a nice buff to (stealth-)Snipe counterplay. Probably doesn't matter for the desync problem though.

Atherakhia · July 2020

Change Snipe to Rapid Shots.

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

This solves all problems.

It solves the problem with it not breaking stealth on shot as it will now break on damage once the first arrow hits and not at the end of the channel.

It solves the problem of people using snipe at max range and player's cant respond to it effectively until they've been hit by 1 with a second already in the air.

It solves part of the problem with PvE because it will now synergize with more sets opening up more options to make bow a solid main hand weapon.

The only problem I see with changing this skill like this is it makes the ultimate less unique. But honestly, everyone uses balista anyway so who cares.

Dr_Ganknstein · July 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

Change Snipe to Rapid Shots.

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

This solves all problems.

It solves the problem with it not breaking stealth on shot as it will now break damage once the first arrow hits and not at the end of the channel.

It solves the problem of people using snipe at max range and player's cant respond to it effectively until they've been hit by 1 with a second already in the air.

It solves part of the problem with PvE because it will now synergize with more sets opening up more options to make bow a solid main hand weapon.

The only problem I see with changing this skill like this is it makes the ultimate less unique. But honestly, everyone uses balista anyway so who cares.

Thats basically a crappy version of toxic barrage.

Atherakhia · July 2020

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

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Atherakhia wrote: »

Change Snipe to Rapid Shots.

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

This solves all problems.

It solves the problem with it not breaking stealth on shot as it will now break damage once the first arrow hits and not at the end of the channel.

It solves the problem of people using snipe at max range and player's cant respond to it effectively until they've been hit by 1 with a second already in the air.

It solves part of the problem with PvE because it will now synergize with more sets opening up more options to make bow a solid main hand weapon.

The only problem I see with changing this skill like this is it makes the ultimate less unique. But honestly, everyone uses balista anyway so who cares.

Thats basically a crappy version of toxic barrage.

Which I specifically said. But this change would make it a solid spammable without all the QQ from PvPers.

Tammany · July 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

Only if developers force you to slot that garbage and play with it for a year.

Hotdog_23 · July 2020

Give me a visual cue as soon as someone fires a snipe at me. Never hear the audio cue for it. Always have music in the background 😂

Be safe and have fun😁

Atherakhia · July 2020

Tammany wrote: »

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Atherakhia wrote: »

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

Only if developers force you to slot that garbage and play with it for a year.

Quite the argument you made there.

WHY is it garbage?

The change would do the exact same damage over the exact same period of time. It resolves nearly every complaint in this thread. Do you have an alternative? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

SmukkeHeks · July 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

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Tammany wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

Only if developers force you to slot that garbage and play with it for a year.

Quite the argument you made there.

WHY is it garbage?

The change would do the exact same damage over the exact same period of time. It resolves nearly every complaint in this thread. Do you have an alternative? [snip]

Snipe and it’s morphs are by far the longest ranged option.

But as some of us have tried to tell you, it’s not snipe. It’s the game. It’s broken.

Atherakhia · July 2020

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

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Atherakhia wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

Only if developers force you to slot that garbage and play with it for a year.

Quite the argument you made there.

WHY is it garbage?

The change would do the exact same damage over the exact same period of time. It resolves nearly every complaint in this thread. Do you have an alternative? [snip]

Snipe and it’s morphs are by far the longest ranged option.

But as some of us have tried to tell you, it’s not snipe. It’s the game. It’s broken.

Half this thread isn't discussing desync.

allan0n · July 2020

SodanTok wrote: »

< --- been hit by desynced meteor since Homestead 2018 still no fix. If we are removing or nerfing desynced skills to ground it sure has to be on list too right

Except one is an ultimate that takes time to build up and the other can be cast whenever with no comparable visual letting you know you're being attacked

ItsJustHashtag · July 2020

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

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CompM4s wrote: »

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Snipe in itself is a mediocre skill. You have to run a gank build to make it do decent damage. Its a great combo opener much as dizzy swing is. I think the problem with desync is that the victim is taking more damage then the hp they have in such a short amount of time that on their end it appears that they should have been able to counter it when in fact they were dead before their xbox/ps4/pc realized it. I get desynced by all kinds of things, it happens.

I can literally put on magicka based sets and hit 4-5k snipes consistently on players.

biminirwb17_ESO · July 2020

You have to build properly to be a [snip], I love killing Templars who think they can heal thru the damage, then kill their buddies who try to rez them.

One shotting newbies on their horsies is not fun, it like shooting fish in a barrel.

Then there is the defender on a keep wall waving their stick trying to heavy lightning attack a Tank to death. He needs a good Sniping before a Meteor nukes him.

Its a playstyle that some enjoy. Oh and by the way its YOUR client that de-syncs the sniper has no way of knowing what YOUR client is doing.

[Edited to removed Offensive Content]

Dr_Ganknstein · July 2020

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

I can literally put on magicka based sets and hit 4-5k snipes consistently on players.

Prove it.

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh and by the way its YOUR client that de-syncs the sniper has no way of knowing what YOUR client is doing.

Everyone who is not trying to fool themselves knows that Snipe desyncs with high regularity and predictability. To say the sniper "has no way of knowing" is disingenuous at best. Even if the sniper doesn't see what their target sees, that doesn't mean they don't know what is happening to them.

Tammany · July 2020

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

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Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Cant believe the amount of people in here defending snipe. Comparing it to dswing and frags is ridiculous.

Snipe in itself is a mediocre skill. You have to run a gank build to make it do decent damage. Its a great combo opener much as dizzy swing is. I think the problem with desync is that the victim is taking more damage then the hp they have in such a short amount of time that on their end it appears that they should have been able to counter it when in fact they were dead before their xbox/ps4/pc realized it. I get desynced by all kinds of things, it happens.

I can literally put on magicka based sets and hit 4-5k snipes consistently on players.

No you cant.

JobooAGS · July 2020

Tammany wrote: »

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Atherakhia wrote: »

Rapid Shots -- Launch three arrows in rapid succession at the target dealing 1/3rd the amount of damage snipe currently does each shot over 1 second. Make it a channeled spell.

Only if developers force you to slot that garbage and play with it for a year.

I’ll gladly take it, as long as it can’t be interrupted by bash/crushing shock/venom arrow

rfennell_ESO · July 2020

Bergzorn wrote: »

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rfennell_ESO wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Been saying this since snipe got our of control. 9/10 deaths has a snipe or 2 on you're recap. With all the nerfs to classes, to healing and mitigation still being heavily relied on in PvP no wonder snipers are plaguing open world cyro. The sad thing is Snipe ganking is more effective than actually playing the game as intended. ZoS has brought this upon themselves, with PvP performance being abysmal most days and Templar and Necro being the only class you face in cyro I can see why Nightblades are being forced into this playstyle.

Easy fix.

Snipe -move it to the nearer end of the bow skill tree, and or once you fire a snipe at an enemy you become decloaked. Simple. However, ZoS won't touch snipe. They will NERF Nightblades passives to suit the players being ganked instead of addressing the root of the issue. They will add a cost increase per shade use, similar to Sorcerer's Streak I think.

After that cast completion you are decloaked.

No, you are not. Nothing else involved, the sniper is pulled out of stealth the moment Snipe hits and does damage. Unstealthing them the moment the snipe cast completes would be a nice buff to (stealth-)Snipe counterplay. Probably doesn't matter for the desync problem though.

I would recommend you actually try it.

Stealth/shadowy disguise do not break on initiation of cast, but they break on finalization of cast. You are not invisible while the projectile is in the air. However you can just recloak... but when the projectile reaches the target and damage is applied you will break cloak. The nature of forcing a shadowy disguise in between snipes is of high value (crit, crit), so anyone with a basic understanding of the mechanics will attempt it. To explain simply it's cloaking before impact to guarantee a crit, you can launch a snipe, queue and launch another and then time your shadowy disguises to make them both crits, it's just a timing thing (shadowy before impact, wait, shadowy before 2nd impact).

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

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biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh and by the way its YOUR client that de-syncs the sniper has no way of knowing what YOUR client is doing.

Everyone who is not trying to fool themselves knows that Snipe desyncs with high regularity and predictability. To say the sniper "has no way of knowing" is disingenuous at best. Even if the sniper doesn't see what their target sees, that doesn't mean they don't know what is happening to them.

To be perfectly honest, there is absolutely no indication to the sniper that anything is happening. There is (as far as I know) no way to manipulate the casts of snipe to cause desyncs. I've witnessed my fair share of desyncs from the perspective of a sniper that didn't exploit anything or run any 3rd party programs. I always knew it was a desync when I was just harassing a good player I knew wouldn't be snipe ganked, and they suddenly dropped dead. To the sniper the only thing you notice is no reaction on the first hit.