Snipe Desync

pauld1_ESO

I get killed by 3x dizzying swings>executionaer desync 100000x than I do by snipe.

rfennell_ESO

auz wrote: »

But that is counter play. You cc, you knock back, you cloak, you reposition yourself, reset the fight and try again. What is the counter play to an enemy hitting you from 40m away that cloaks and reposions when i try to close the distance? I don't even try and chase snipers these days, there are no skills that can hit them from that far away, no way of closing that much distance. The good ones won't be caught unless they make a big mistake and if they don't die in 1 combo they will reset their distance. So instead I carry on my way knowing that I am going to get sniped in the back as soon as the sniper feels I am sufficiently vulnerable enough to engage again.

I know it's annoying to deal with.

Generally speaking though, the only way to be effective as a bowganker/bowsniper is to go full glass cannon. Low health, low regen, no survivability or crit resist and the only defense is nightblade invis.

It requires patience and an understanding of when to and how to engage. Otherwise you get wrecked immediately.

jaime1982

Imagine defending snipe lol.

Dr_Ganknstein

jaime1982 wrote: »

Imagine defending snipe lol.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537845/why-is-it-some-can-run-around-killing-everyone-in-seconds-while-they-are-unaffected-by-lag-skill

People complaining about being killed and how snipe didn't work for them the way people claim. What I'm saying is its more of a performance issue. Im not going to stop using an ability because it sometimes "desyncs". Tell me, when something is discovered as being op do you see more people using it in pvp or less people using it? How many 1vX videos are out there where someone is using snipe?

OBJnoob

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

jaime1982 wrote: »

Imagine defending snipe lol.

How many 1vX videos are out there where someone is using snipe?

Just your own? In which you refer to yourself as the “trash man.” Which I fully understand, in your case, is probably sarcasm more indicative of what people probably think of you than what you think of yourself.

Nevertheless. You, your character, your videos, and your stance in this thread... all make perfect sense to me.

This thread looks like it’s successfully devolved so that any substance is now buried in pages 1,2,3 and recently people only appear to be discussing nerfs instead of fixes. Both sides. Which I feel is a cruel trick... because the thread itself is labeled DESYNC and people have been incredibly vocal about the problem.

Someone suggested that since snipe maybe desyncs it’d be more appropriate to make a topic in the bug report forum. So I did. It got no attention. I’ve suggested that people who think meteor and dizzy swing desyncs as frequently create their own threads for that. But I don’t see them. Maybe if I check the back pages I see a few... but can not, by raw numbers, compare it to the huge and constant outcry about snipe.

Therefore, to me, it seems like the snipe desync is more prevalent for a greater number of players. Which is the only reason why I would be here trying to get it fixed first.

But since that’s not going to happen... I guess it’s time to get back in the gankolorian until snipe needs another hero.

Spartabunny08

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

So basically yall want snipe nerfed even more instead of desync fixed which happens with other abilities also but you guys either are using those abilities or you don't die from them as often?

This. You can't fix something that isn't broke. Snipe is working as intended. The sniper has more damage than you can resist and that caused desync. Among many other variables that aren't intended you can't blame snipe. As is said, I desync people on mag warden every day I play it with the bear ulti. Why this happens, is because this ultimate does 100% more damage under 25% health. When the bear does the ultimate they skid across the ground dead... more damage than they could handle all at once. If they can't do that damage the desync will not happen. This is a difference in how much damage can be taken versus what's being dealt. I used to think the same way cheating or whatever it isn't. I fought the same people for years and almost everyone of them are from the beginning of the game. Highly experienced with the best setups the game can offer.

pauld1_ESO

jaime1982 wrote: »

Imagine defending snipe lol.

Not defending it, but there are plenty of other abilities that have the same issue I die from much more. Funny how we are selective because of what build we main though....right?

Wonder what yours is? Please do tell. I guarantee you use an ability that does the same crap.

OBJnoob

You know how I know the snipe desync is different? Cuz when I get snipe desynced there isn’t an executioner following it. Oh how I wish I had been executed. Oh how I wish anything else at all had been recorded.

Or, in case of warden bear ulti, how I wish that it only happened at 25% health. Or how I wish it only happened when I was on a squishy character that just didn’t have high resistances.

None of these are feasible solutions. People are just grasping at straws. Let them examine the snipe desync. Let a professional diagnose the problem. If your professional opinion is that there’s zero problems, or that there are so many problems what’s the point of fixing this one, then why do you care so much? [snip]

If zos ever seriously looked into this and fixed it, by YOUR own assumption they would also probably have a solution that could, with minimal modification, be applied to the other offending skills.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting and Petitions]

Toc de Malsvi

Rianai wrote: »

"Had you dodged the first snipe" - that had no tell before it actually hit, because the sniper was not in his field of view and there was no sound effect of the skill being fired. Even if he could have reacted in time and survived, that is still no justification whatsoever for this kind of bug.

Somewhere around 10-11 seconds into the video you can hear the first snipe before it ever hits. You can also see the Sniper pop out of stealth at the same time before the player turns camera.

You can see each skill attack coming in. 2 Snipes, 1 Acid Spray.


Just more BS by people that don’t know the sound effects in game.

Toc de Malsvi

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

You can see the lethal arrows coming at you and you drank from the fire hose (didn't block or dodge roll)

Come on man, I'm sure you are smarter than that.

The Player's health goes from 100% to 0% in a two second window. (timed from the start of the 12th second of the video through the end of the 13th second). The highest number of snipes that SHOULD land in that time is 3 (one at the first moment, one in the middle, and one at the last moment, with 2 seconds in between).

Here we see 5 snipes land in that time. Maybe some defensive actions would have helped, but the Sniper shouldn't get 66% extra attacks on his target.

Don't make excuses for a skill that doesn't function properly and is abused by many players.

No we don’t see 5 Snipes. We see 2 Snipes and 1 acid spray. The recap shows 5 Snipes. Recaps are not reliable by any measure and never have been. Notably missing from recap is Acid spray, also any enchant procs, poisons or light attacks.

Desyncs happen. This isn’t one.

Recaps are unreliable. Full stop.

Toc de Malsvi

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

It might be better to consider that over 5 snipes each had a different damage total. Only 1 could be considered a Crit. 4 have all marginally different damage. So is it reasonable to think that your resistances and the Snipers buffs, all changed 3 times, but all changed marginally to be approximately equal each time?

Or is it more reasonable to think that a recap that has always been unreliable is still unreliable and recorded actions that weren’t Snipes as “Snipe”?

Perhaps to provide some support for this, consider the ganker that is clearly moving toward you and clearly casting Acid Spray immediately before/as you die.

Rianai

The only thing you can hear when the invisible sniper pops out of stealth for a moment before the camera turns away, is the target casting RaT. No snipe sound whatsoever before the arrow lands (and yes i know how it is supposed to sound). When the "first" snipe lands, it shows 2x 4k dmg numbers (and a few sub 1k numbers from DoTs/Enchant) and the target drops from 24k to 13k hp instantly. The "second" visible snipe produces 1x 7k crit and another 2x 4k dmg and health drops from 16k to zero. That's exactly the numbers the death recap displays and there is nothing else that could deal that much dmg other than snipe. LA (can't see any), Arrow Spray (seems to be out of range), Enchants, DoTs would all deal significantly less dmg. Slightly varying numbers are also exactly what is to be expected considering certain passives - i really shouldn't have to tell this to bowtard mains.

And yes, death recap isn't reliable - when it comes to exact timing of skills + it doesn't show all dmg sources, only the highest few before death + last hit (which is why you almost never see la or status effetcs in there) But it doesn't just make up stuff out of nowhere and the only case of mislabeled skills i'm aware of have been fozzilize/rune cage which got fixed afaik.

The video shows exactly how snipe desyncs look like and desperately trying to make up alternative explanations with nothing to back those up shows once again, how afraid snipetards are to get their broken skill fixed. Because if you would not rely on those bugs, you should be the ones with the most interest in getting those fixed, to prove you are not just some poor little exploiters. But instead nothing but denial and distraction.

Dr_Ganknstein

Rianai wrote: »

The only thing you can hear when the invisible sniper pops out of stealth for a moment before the camera turns away, is the target casting RaT. No snipe sound whatsoever before the arrow lands

I heard it and saw it. I think the player was distracted by the enemy warden or whatever it was.

mav1234

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

You realize you are saying the only reason snipe kills you is because of desync. So the ability itself isn't good enough or you are just dying to it and blaming desync? Sounds like if they fix the desync issue snipe will need a nice sized buff imo.

It actually may need some sort of buff if the desync is fixed, yes. Or, it may not. But it isnt fixed so that needs to be addressed first before we can evaluate it properly. If desyncs can't be fixed the ability needs a large nerf unfortunately.

Toc de Malsvi

Rianai wrote: »

The only thing you can hear when the invisible sniper pops out of stealth for a moment before the camera turns away, is the target casting RaT. No snipe sound whatsoever before the arrow lands (and yes i know how it is supposed to sound). When the "first" snipe lands, it shows 2x 4k dmg numbers (and a few sub 1k numbers from DoTs/Enchant) and the target drops from 24k to 13k hp instantly. The "second" visible snipe produces 1x 7k crit and another 2x 4k dmg and health drops from 16k to zero. That's exactly the numbers the death recap displays and there is nothing else that could deal that much dmg other than snipe. LA (can't see any), Arrow Spray (seems to be out of range), Enchants, DoTs would all deal significantly less dmg. Slightly varying numbers are also exactly what is to be expected considering certain passives - i really shouldn't have to tell this to bowtard mains.

And yes, death recap isn't reliable - when it comes to exact timing of skills + it doesn't show all dmg sources, only the highest few before death + last hit (which is why you almost never see la or status effetcs in there) But it doesn't just make up stuff out of nowhere and the only case of mislabeled skills i'm aware of have been fozzilize/rune cage which got fixed afaik.

The video shows exactly how snipe desyncs look like and desperately trying to make up alternative explanations with nothing to back those up shows once again, how afraid snipetards are to get their broken skill fixed. Because if you would not rely on those bugs, you should be the ones with the most interest in getting those fixed, to prove you are not just some poor little exploiters. But instead nothing but denial and distraction.

You need to turn the sound up as the player has their voice audio way louder than the game sounds.

You should watch a few more times. You clearly need to learn the game better. There is literally no desync, I don’t think you even know what one is. Which further cements that an irrational crowd of angry players are blaming deaths on desync that fundamentally are not desyncs.

As far as pretending Acid Spray is out of range. Just take the Slider on the video and move it back and forth, the animation for Acid Spray moves right between the NPCs and the player drops as soon as it reaches them.

Rianai

Oh, so if i turn up the sound to the point where all other game sounds become unbearable loud and concentrate hard enough it is possible to hear a low click sound that indicates one single snipe has been fired. Such an obvious and easy to react to clue. Btw if you pay attention can also hear 5x snipe landing sound, each one just when those 4/7k numbers pop up. But that's surely just some 4k light attacks, totally normal for those to be invisible and hit for the same dmg as snipe, right?

And you still have no explanation for the death recap other than "it is bugged and just makes stuff up". So what is the more likely explanation for what happened - a bug that has been verifiable in the game for years and that looks exactly like what is shown in the video or some random bug nobody else has ever reported?

Edt: I just checked an old snipe desync vid of myself and it shows pretty much the same. Except i had a dmg log addon to verify dmg displayed on my client (hb bar, dmg numbers, sound) and actual incoming dmg (combat log) was desynced.

Spartabunny08

Desync has to do with damage and its counter. Snipe just gets the attention because it happens the easiest with it. There is nothing else.

Bergzorn

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Desync has to do with damage and its counter. Snipe just gets the attention because it happens the easiest with it. There is nothing else.

So how about we all ask ZOS to finally, after years, fix the worst offender.

MurderMostFoul

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It might be better to consider that over 5 snipes each had a different damage total. Only 1 could be considered a Crit. 4 have all marginally different damage. So is it reasonable to think that your resistances and the Snipers buffs, all changed 3 times, but all changed marginally to be approximately equal each time?

https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/long-shots

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

No we don’t see 5 Snipes. We see 2 Snipes and 1 acid spray. The recap shows 5 Snipes. Recaps are not reliable by any measure and never have been. Notably missing from recap is Acid spray, also any enchant procs, poisons or light attacks.

Desyncs happen. This isn’t one.

Recaps are unreliable. Full stop.

Nice try.

Watch the damage numbers, they tick 5 times, one for each snipe. Video clarity isn't perfect, but they appear to record:

4353
4353
4086
7516!
4086

They don't track perfectly with the recap (maybe they are just to hard to read, or maybe the recap is adding in status effect ticks, which you can also see). But they are all large hits, 5 of them, associated with 5 landed snipes in 2 seconds from the target's perspective.

DUTCH_REAPER

Edited bc no matter what. People will go on believing what they want. No matter how much the truth is staring them in the face.

Spartabunny08

Bergzorn wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Desync has to do with damage and its counter. Snipe just gets the attention because it happens the easiest with it. There is nothing else.

So how about we all ask ZOS to finally, after years, fix the worst offender.

By all means... they should know more than any of us but doesn't seem they feel as you do or they may have said so or after what 7 years addressed it or fixed it. So I ask you is your argument logical?

Toc de Malsvi

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It might be better to consider that over 5 snipes each had a different damage total. Only 1 could be considered a Crit. 4 have all marginally different damage. So is it reasonable to think that your resistances and the Snipers buffs, all changed 3 times, but all changed marginally to be approximately equal each time?

https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/long-shots

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

No we don’t see 5 Snipes. We see 2 Snipes and 1 acid spray. The recap shows 5 Snipes. Recaps are not reliable by any measure and never have been. Notably missing from recap is Acid spray, also any enchant procs, poisons or light attacks.

Desyncs happen. This isn’t one.

Recaps are unreliable. Full stop.

Nice try.

Watch the damage numbers, they tick 5 times, one for each snipe. Video clarity isn't perfect, but they appear to record:

4353
4353
4086
7516!
4086

They don't track perfectly with the recap (maybe they are just to hard to read, or maybe the recap is adding in status effect ticks, which you can also see). But they are all large hits, 5 of them, associated with 5 landed snipes in 2 seconds from the target's perspective.

Right...

Because the recap got the spells “right” except the clearly obvious Acid Spray that killed them. But the recap didn’t get the numbers correct?

Clearly the blurry images of numbers are a more accurate picture. The 2 animated Snipes are magically 5, and the Animated Acid Spray is just entirely made up by the game.

If you actually understood that passive you would know it changes at set distances. Further you just claimed the passives responsibility but then claim only 3 different damage numbers. Recap:

4698
7516
4359
4086
4297


Really, really stop and take look in the mirror.

Anti-snipe fanatics will justify anything.

Toc de Malsvi

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Edited bc no matter what. People will go on believing what they want. No matter how much the truth is staring them in the face.

Seriously take a look in the mirror. Every attack was animated. You failed to respond. There are real legit desync videos out there that you could use. This was not a desync.

Toc de Malsvi

The Acid Spray animation directly coincides with death as it reaches the target. But “seems” out of range.

The blurry numbers can be clearly read, but turning up the game sounds is unreasonable.

The health never desyncs, and shows all damage incoming. But “must be a desync” cause there was only two snipes shown and an Acid Spray.

The recap can only be relied upon for the skills and only if it confirms your own bias.




All of this undermines any argument about desync. It shows players see normal gameplay or lag as desync even in the face of obvious evidence otherwise.

Desyncs do occur. A desync is when the game DOESN’T show the damage and you drop dead. If it shows the damage incoming it is by definition not a desync.

Snipe is the easiest target to recognize them. But you kids cannot tell a real desync from normal combat and that is an indictment of your complaint threads.


Even if we attribute the recap as actually factually recording Snipes. Then it wouldn’t be a desync. It would be LAG.

MurderMostFoul

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Right...

Because the recap got the spells “right” except the clearly obvious Acid Spray that killed them. But the recap didn’t get the numbers correct?

Clearly the blurry images of numbers are a more accurate picture. The 2 animated Snipes are magically 5, and the Animated Acid Spray is just entirely made up by the game.

To review, we've got a recap AND damage ticks pointing to 5 snipe hits. And your argument is based on the assumption that both of those are totally wrong?

Acid spray can be cast at anytime, anywhere, with or without a target. Here it is cast, out of range of the player, at the time he dies. That proves nothing.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

If you actually understood that passive you would know it changes at set distances.

Lol, you say I don't understand Long Shots? Yet, you are the one who previously failed to even consider it:

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It might be better to consider that over 5 snipes each had a different damage total. Only 1 could be considered a Crit. 4 have all marginally different damage. So is it reasonable to think that your resistances and the Snipers buffs, all changed 3 times, but all changed marginally to be approximately equal each time?

Tammany

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

Snipe desync is when you drop dead 100>0 without any visual cue before.
Here you had a guy telegraphing lethal shots right into your face + periodical health drops and still decided to facetank it instead of dodging. By the way, good example how people complain about absolutely everything.

MurderMostFoul

Tammany wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

Snipe desync is when you drop dead 100>0 without any visual cue before.
Here you had a guy telegraphing lethal shots right into your face + periodical health drops and still decided to facetank it instead of dodging. By the way, good example how people complain about absolutely everything.

Snipe desync is when more snipe hit you within a given time period than should be possible given the GCD and snipe's cast time. Sometimes this results in an instant 100% to 0% health, sometimes not. Dieing isn't a requiste condition of snipe desync.

Here, 5 snipes land in 2 secs, whereas the most snipes that should land in that time is 3. That's a snipe desync.

Dr_Ganknstein

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

Snipe desync is when you drop dead 100>0 without any visual cue before.
Here you had a guy telegraphing lethal shots right into your face + periodical health drops and still decided to facetank it instead of dodging. By the way, good example how people complain about absolutely everything.

Snipe desync is when more snipe hit you within a given time period than should be possible given the GCD and snipe's cast time. Sometimes this results in an instant 100% to 0% health, sometimes not. Dieing isn't a requiste condition of snipe desync.

Here, 5 snipes land in 2 secs, whereas the most snipes that should land in that time is 3. That's a snipe desync.

The reason I don't trust the recap is because you should see a lethal arrow poison proc by the time it takes to land 5 snipes.

MurderMostFoul

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

Snipe desync is when you drop dead 100>0 without any visual cue before.
Here you had a guy telegraphing lethal shots right into your face + periodical health drops and still decided to facetank it instead of dodging. By the way, good example how people complain about absolutely everything.

Snipe desync is when more snipe hit you within a given time period than should be possible given the GCD and snipe's cast time. Sometimes this results in an instant 100% to 0% health, sometimes not. Dieing isn't a requiste condition of snipe desync.

Here, 5 snipes land in 2 secs, whereas the most snipes that should land in that time is 3. That's a snipe desync.

The reason I don't trust the recap is because you should see a lethal arrow poison proc by the time it takes to land 5 snipes.

I'm not certain how the recap prioritizes reporting, but it may be as simple as, when a player dies:

1. Check player max health.
2. Identify all most recent damage that sums to be =/> player max health.
3. Report the five largest sources of damage identified in 2.

This would be consistent with most of my experiences with the death recap.

rfennell_ESO

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ahh yes the snipe desync.....


https://youtu.be/7fjFXq8Bsuk

Snipe desync is when you drop dead 100>0 without any visual cue before.
Here you had a guy telegraphing lethal shots right into your face + periodical health drops and still decided to facetank it instead of dodging. By the way, good example how people complain about absolutely everything.

Snipe desync is when more snipe hit you within a given time period than should be possible given the GCD and snipe's cast time. Sometimes this results in an instant 100% to 0% health, sometimes not. Dieing isn't a requiste condition of snipe desync.

Here, 5 snipes land in 2 secs, whereas the most snipes that should land in that time is 3. That's a snipe desync.

The reason I don't trust the recap is because you should see a lethal arrow poison proc by the time it takes to land 5 snipes.

Well, you probably won't see that one recap. *poisoned* does joke damage.

I can state that most of the time it is the last 5 items above some arbitrary threshold that contributed to your death. It's not the 5 largest, it's the 5 most recent (above the threshold for reporting, hence *poisoned* with it's 200 dmg tick (if even that high) will likely be ignored).

I can also state that during laggy encounters you can see some buggy behavior, but that's sort of a no brainer.

I could post some videos of the typical recap from being sniped out, but every single one of them from streamers always has my name said aloud preceded by a Fbomb.