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Bosmer Racial change that is illogical and unnecessary

  • thegreatme
    thegreatme
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    "The Penetration bonus is good but hard to use effectively because of it's proc condition (roll dodge). [Good For] Stamina characters but not among the top ones for PVE or PVP."

    /sigh

    Correction: Decent for Stamina characters. They won't even say its outright good for them in their guide, unlike other races, which kinda just further makes my point lol

    Breton: "Makes its passives a good fit for magicka builds, helps you focus on damage and not worry about running out of resources"
    Orc: "Great choice for stamina builds and melee/physical damage. One of the top races for DPS and decent tank."
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."
    Altmer: "One of the top races for magicka builds. Extra spell damage for better DPS and faster completion. Built in stamina-restore on magicka builds for better pvp quality of life."
    Khajiit: "Top race for everything stealth, from thieving to PvP. The best option for thief builds. One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds."
    Argonian: "Magicka race that is especially good as a Healer and decent DPS. Restore all resources quickly every time they drink a potion, reliable for all content."
    Dunmer: "One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds. Thanks to its passives, one of the top DPS options for both magicka and stamina builds in both PvE and PvP.
    Nord: "The top option for Tanks, thanks to physical/spell resistances and Ulti generation. Great choice for sturdy characters that can reach resistance cap, but not the best for DPS because of lacking offensive passives."
    Imperial: "Great race for Stamina builds. Second best option for Tanks and one of the best options for DPS. Very strong in both PvE and PvP because of its sustain and resource recovery."



    Bosmer: "Mostly good for stamina sustain, which other classes do better at anyway + extra perks. You have a kinda neat passive, but actually its an active and janky af to use effectively. Not one of the top races in anything, not even stealth, which is its lore-friendly trademark. Really just kinda on this list purely as an honorable mention towards the fact it exists and that's about it, but at least it makes a cute roleplay character for your ERP fantasies I guess."
    Edited by thegreatme on May 3, 2020 3:43AM
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  • thegreatme
    thegreatme
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    MincVinyl wrote: »
    As it stands in pvp/pve at the end game meta bosmer really has no place. You must go off the beaten path just to look like a bosmer.

    Its actually funny because just yesterday I was testing some things out with a fellow guildie on this. We both play bosmer toons, though I main bosmer and they main Nord. Their Nord is built as a tank, which is supposed to be sub-par as a DPS compared to other races.

    In just a day of half-arsed fidgeting with their gear to go from Tank to kind-of-DPSy, they were doing almost as much DPS on their Nord tank as their own Raid-built Bosmer crit-DPS glass canon and my Bosmer main DPS who has twice the CP (maxed) and is built specifically for damage.

    Clearly something is broken here.
    Join my Nocturnal-devoted Mercenary Reach guild! https://esokrakeclan.weebly.com/
    My Artstation | Deviantart | Youtube | Furaffinity

    Thank You ZoS!:
    ◙ Blackfeather Court banker/merchant
    ◙ Gloam Indrik
    ◙ Re-release Gloam Wolf Mount

    Let's See It Happen ZoS:
    ◙ /honorloop emote
    ◙ cross-legged sitting emote
    ◙ Evergloam house
    ◙ Hagraven Polymorph
    ◙ Hagraven Houseguest
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    thegreatme wrote: »
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    As it stands in pvp/pve at the end game meta bosmer really has no place. You must go off the beaten path just to look like a bosmer.

    Its actually funny because just yesterday I was testing some things out with a fellow guildie on this. We both play bosmer toons, though I main bosmer and they main Nord. Their Nord is built as a tank, which is supposed to be sub-par as a DPS compared to other races.

    In just a day of half-arsed fidgeting with their gear to go from Tank to kind-of-DPSy, they were doing almost as much DPS on their Nord tank as their own Raid-built Bosmer crit-DPS glass canon and my Bosmer main DPS who has twice the CP (maxed) and is built specifically for damage.

    Clearly something is broken here.

    Sadly i doubt we will see change, just because zos has a lot of other things they are doing and likely wont revisit the racials. From the start I said that the pen should have been passive. Atleast I was able to get zos to fix the timing, essentially it would run out within like 3 secs of coming out of roll so the passive was useless. The speed could have been more aswell, but instead of seeing it on live, players just cried that it would be too annoying to kill a stamina nightblade.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    thegreatme wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    "The Penetration bonus is good but hard to use effectively because of it's proc condition (roll dodge). [Good For] Stamina characters but not among the top ones for PVE or PVP."

    /sigh

    Correction: Decent for Stamina characters. They won't even say its outright good for them in their guide, unlike other races, which kinda just further makes my point lol

    Breton: "Makes its passives a good fit for magicka builds, helps you focus on damage and not worry about running out of resources"
    Orc: "Great choice for stamina builds and melee/physical damage. One of the top races for DPS and decent tank."
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."
    Altmer: "One of the top races for magicka builds. Extra spell damage for better DPS and faster completion. Built in stamina-restore on magicka builds for better pvp quality of life."
    Khajiit: "Top race for everything stealth, from thieving to PvP. The best option for thief builds. One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds."
    Argonian: "Magicka race that is especially good as a Healer and decent DPS. Restore all resources quickly every time they drink a potion, reliable for all content."
    Dunmer: "One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds. Thanks to its passives, one of the top DPS options for both magicka and stamina builds in both PvE and PvP.
    Nord: "The top option for Tanks, thanks to physical/spell resistances and Ulti generation. Great choice for sturdy characters that can reach resistance cap, but not the best for DPS because of lacking offensive passives."
    Imperial: "Great race for Stamina builds. Second best option for Tanks and one of the best options for DPS. Very strong in both PvE and PvP because of its sustain and resource recovery."



    Bosmer: "Mostly good for stamina sustain, which other classes do better at anyway + extra perks. You have a kinda neat passive, but actually its an active and janky af to use effectively. Not one of the top races in anything, not even stealth, which is its lore-friendly trademark. Really just kinda on this list purely as an honorable mention towards the fact it exists and that's about it, but at least it makes a cute roleplay character for your ERP fantasies I guess."

    huh? Bosmer sustain is much better than Redguard's sustain, even with weapon abilities. Snare reduction is useless in that it is multiplicative with snares themselves, and that every build has some form of snare removal/immunity/mitigation.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    thegreatme wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    "The Penetration bonus is good but hard to use effectively because of it's proc condition (roll dodge). [Good For] Stamina characters but not among the top ones for PVE or PVP."

    /sigh

    Correction: Decent for Stamina characters. They won't even say its outright good for them in their guide, unlike other races, which kinda just further makes my point lol

    Breton: "Makes its passives a good fit for magicka builds, helps you focus on damage and not worry about running out of resources"
    Orc: "Great choice for stamina builds and melee/physical damage. One of the top races for DPS and decent tank."
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."
    Altmer: "One of the top races for magicka builds. Extra spell damage for better DPS and faster completion. Built in stamina-restore on magicka builds for better pvp quality of life."
    Khajiit: "Top race for everything stealth, from thieving to PvP. The best option for thief builds. One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds."
    Argonian: "Magicka race that is especially good as a Healer and decent DPS. Restore all resources quickly every time they drink a potion, reliable for all content."
    Dunmer: "One of the only two most versatile races for both successful magicka and stamina builds. Thanks to its passives, one of the top DPS options for both magicka and stamina builds in both PvE and PvP.
    Nord: "The top option for Tanks, thanks to physical/spell resistances and Ulti generation. Great choice for sturdy characters that can reach resistance cap, but not the best for DPS because of lacking offensive passives."
    Imperial: "Great race for Stamina builds. Second best option for Tanks and one of the best options for DPS. Very strong in both PvE and PvP because of its sustain and resource recovery."



    Bosmer: "Mostly good for stamina sustain, which other classes do better at anyway + extra perks. You have a kinda neat passive, but actually its an active and janky af to use effectively. Not one of the top races in anything, not even stealth, which is its lore-friendly trademark. Really just kinda on this list purely as an honorable mention towards the fact it exists and that's about it, but at least it makes a cute roleplay character for your ERP fantasies I guess."

    huh? Bosmer sustain is much better than Redguard's sustain, even with weapon abilities. Snare reduction is useless in that it is multiplicative with snares themselves, and that every build has some form of snare removal/immunity/mitigation.



    Bosmer

    258 rec (~400 rec with cp+pot)
    2000 stam
    2310 poison resist(immune)
    1500 pen + 10% speed requiring a roll dodge for 6 sec (-3000 stam ~15 sec to use buff = ~450 rec +gcd wasted

    Redguard

    Reduce cost of weapon abilities+ults by 8% (equivalent to 363 stam recov on dizzy rotation+10 ult off onslaught)
    2000 stam
    950 stam restore off of direct damage (equivalent to 380 stam recov works while block casting)
    15% off of snares

    (all speed buffs were made to be additive not multiplicative, test this again if you want, but this is why snares are not as potent as they were post murkmire, many high mmr pvp players dont bother with immunity due to short durations, due to murkmire nerfs. Sprinting alone counteracts most snares in the game now if movement is really needed)

    Edited by MincVinyl on May 3, 2020 5:52AM
  • RogueShark
    RogueShark
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    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."

    Bosmer has better sustain that Redguard.

    PC NA
    Will heal DPS for memes.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    RogueShark wrote: »
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."

    Bosmer has better sustain that Redguard.

    How are you justifying this, or is this just how you feel?
  • RogueShark
    RogueShark
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    MincVinyl wrote: »
    RogueShark wrote: »
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."

    Bosmer has better sustain that Redguard.

    How are you justifying this, or is this just how you feel?

    Bosmer sustain (258 every 2 seconds in combat, higher out of combat) can be affected by multipliers. You need a measly .48 modifier to your recovery to beat out adrenaline rush, which is something like 380 in a perfect and unrealistic situation (you won't always get your adrenaline rush every 5 seconds). Many classes don't even use weapon ability spammables, making the weapon cost reduction unattractive versus raw sustain.

    Only situation where Redguard sustain will have one up over Bosmer is if you never stop sprinting/blocking constantly. They also get superior sustain when out of combat, such as moving from one group of enemies to the next, or during phases where there is nothing to attack so IMO that sort of washes out.


    Edit: I should note I'm speaking primarily from a PvE standpoint.
    Edited by RogueShark on May 3, 2020 5:54AM
    PC NA
    Will heal DPS for memes.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    RogueShark wrote: »
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    RogueShark wrote: »
    Redguard: "Great for stamina builds and sustain. Cost Reduction, stamina restore, reduce snares."

    Bosmer has better sustain that Redguard.

    How are you justifying this, or is this just how you feel?

    Bosmer sustain (258 every 2 seconds in combat, higher out of combat) can be affected by multipliers. You need a measly .48 modifier to your recovery to beat out adrenaline rush, which is something like 380 in a perfect and unrealistic situation (you won't always get your adrenaline rush every 5 seconds). Many classes don't even use weapon ability spammables, making the weapon cost reduction unattractive versus raw sustain.

    Only situation where Redguard sustain will have one up over Bosmer is if you never stop sprinting/blocking constantly. They also get superior sustain when out of combat, such as moving from one group of enemies to the next, so IMO that sort of washes out.


    Edit: I should note I'm speaking primarily from a PvE standpoint.

    In pvp redguard easily beats out bosmer mathmatically From a pve standpoint I suppose the bosmer wont roll so much, depending on how often you use roll, it counteracts the regen passive sustain even if you roll every ~15 secs for a buff that is half of what an orc passive provides for damage without downtime or cost. Maybe if the pen wasn't behind roll and was actually equivalent I would say bosmer is better. As for hitting adrenaline rush it is pretty close to the 5 sec even just by doing light attacks, (380rec at 5sec.....316rec at 6 sec)

    If anything orc is probs the better sustain choice since the damage is constant you can just pick up whatever constant sustain you want towards any build without having to be pigeon holed into roll spamming or relying on weapon abilities.
  • RogueShark
    RogueShark
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    Orc is definitely far and above the best for both PvP and PvE and I'm not saying Bosmer is in a perfect place, especially compared to Orc of all things. My point was that Bosmer sustain is generally superior to Redguard; doesn't mean they don't both need some help (again, ESPECIALLY compared to master race Orc).

    You still aren't apt to hit adrenaline rush perfectly every 5 seconds. More often than not you'll hit just before it can proc again or shortly after, and that lost time adds up over time.
    PC NA
    Will heal DPS for memes.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Tbh, I don't see point of discussing bosmer vs redguard. For at least an year it is obvious to everyone that best stamina race for PVE - orc and for PVP - nord, and all contenders are 1-1.5 set bonuses behind.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    So technically, nord and orcs play with "perfected passives" and all others with regular ones. More then that, they synergize greatly with OP stamcro (both PVP and PVE, obviously), because of plain big health bonus available to necro from passives. So you can use best food - lava foot soup for PVE and ATB for PVP with minimal investment to HP to reach minimum recommended level.

    All things stacked = nord/orc + stamcro + lava food soup/artaeum takeaway broth... just another league in comparison to bosmer/redguard who must use least stat dense food - rabbits with vegetables in PVE and in PVP both races have low health, which is big downside in burst meta.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    And all this is not some kind of secret knowledge, it is OBVIOUS things, obvious to EVERY streamer/class representative whoever since U22. And ZOS does nothing to buff underperforming races/classes. It is not 1 update or some balancing mistake, it is conscious behavior to ensure sales of "full ESO version" to newbies (old players obviously already have it) and to ensure sales of race change tokens/adventurer pack or additional character slots or even new accounts if some players don't want to sacrifice their old toons.
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