TheFM wrote: »

Yeah, its the passive. I can understand it being maybe. Stage 1 - 1%, 2 - 2%, 3 - 3%, 4 -4%. But 20 percent is just way way too much for stage 4.

But magicka vampires will be hit incredibly hard with the coming update

-78 damage reduction on la
-20 percent cost increase of all non vamp abilities
-loss of the 10 percent passive to regen

All that together will make us completely non viable for most content across the board

What it should be to be even remotely fair is

-20 percent damage reduction on LA
- No cost increase of normal abilities, i could live with 5 for stage 4, but really the health debuff and fire damage increase is more than enough

TheFM wrote: »

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

1. This is, seemingly, AGAIN, really bad for healers, especially in PvE. I mean, come ON. Enough already. Does ZOS care about them at ALL?!? I've seen comments about how this could be good in PvP, interesting for tanks... I see very little reason for a healer to want to be vampire whereas before my healers enjoyed being vampires. Brain drain, at most, could make up for the loss of Supernatural Recovery but I can't imagine it's going to be powerful enough to be the reason to try or remain a vampire. Most of the heals and everything are SELF which are awful options for a support healing role. (Is there anyone, a "class rep" or "content creator" or whoever, who actually advocates for the healing role primarily to ZOS at this point?)
2. It sure seems to me that the announcement of LA/HAs aligns very conveniently with the rollout of these changes, especially the removal of Supernatural Recovery. This gives me a pessimistic feeling our feedback won't really be considered for either area, if these are tied strategies.

peacenote wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Good post. I agree 100% based on the information we have so far.

I will add two things:

1. This is, seemingly, AGAIN, really bad for healers, especially in PvE. I mean, come ON. Enough already. Does ZOS care about them at ALL?!? I've seen comments about how this could be good in PvP, interesting for tanks... I see very little reason for a healer to want to be vampire whereas before my healers enjoyed being vampires. Brain drain, at most, could make up for the loss of Supernatural Recovery but I can't imagine it's going to be powerful enough to be the reason to try or remain a vampire. Most of the heals and everything are SELF which are awful options for a support healing role. (Is there anyone, a "class rep" or "content creator" or whoever, who actually advocates for the healing role primarily to ZOS at this point?)
2. It sure seems to me that the announcement of LA/HAs aligns very conveniently with the rollout of these changes, especially the removal of Supernatural Recovery. This gives me a pessimistic feeling our feedback won't really be considered for either area, if these are tied strategies.

Alucardo wrote: »

It's not very often I'm in awe when ZOS overhaul a system, but I actually really like the look of it so far. Having said that, I'm not sure how I feel about feeding to keep my vamp stage up. If you spend most of your time in Cyro you will know that feeding on another player is generally considered a "troll" act because of how impractical it is. With this change, if we wish to keep our vamp strength up, we'll need to exit Cyro and roleplay on NPCs.
Perhaps a "Blood potion", or some kind of consumable would be nice. Drinking it would give you the benefits equivalent of feeding on a single humanoid.
Other than that, the changes look pretty good. I'm worried Mist may be a little strong as a cheap toggle, but without seeing the numbers it's hard to say.

Alucardo wrote: »

Perhaps a "Blood potion", or some kind of consumable would be nice. Drinking it would give you the benefits equivalent of feeding on a single humanoid.

TheFM wrote: »

Or we want to build certain aspects of the vampire active skills into our current builds for unique variety instead of being shoehorned into a werewolf copy. Also, in tes vampires have always been more passive than active and werewolves more active than passive. You are being dismissive, and rude instead objective or helpful.

TheFM wrote: »

As it stands now all classes will have the same main skills if they are a vampire, and the mission statement of " play like you want, and more build variety " is not served by the current state of the vampire line. Not all vampires are close quarters blood warriors in tes lore. You have mage vampires, rogue vampires, bard vampires, etc. We vary in shape, size and class all across tamriel. The way vampire now fits that paradigm, the way it is proposed atm does not.

While a lot of the changes are good, the lack of any regen Bonus, and the bloated cost increase flies in the face of every vampire clan in tamriel. Not to mention from a balance perspective it highly punishes magicka players, since there is no cost increase for being a werewolf, so if we want to compare it 1 to 1, there is that too.

TheFM wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Or we want to build certain aspects of the vampire active skills into our current builds for unique variety instead of being shoehorned into a werewolf copy. Also, in tes vampires have always been more passive than active and werewolves more active than passive. You are being dismissive, and rude instead objective or helpful.

And how 5% cost increase will prevent you from doing so? If you want "to build certain aspects of the vampire active skills into our current builds for unique variety" go for 1st stage of vampirism and do so, for 5% cost increase for regular skills you get access to 6 vampire skills with 5% cost decrease and 1 passive skill. And at 4th stage of vampirism you get 20% cost increase for regular skills, but 20% cost decrease of vampire skills, so if you want to use more vampire skills go for 4th stage and include in you rotaion more vampiric skills to compensate cost increase of regular skills. Very good desicion by ZOS in my opinion.

TheFM wrote: »

As it stands now all classes will have the same main skills if they are a vampire, and the mission statement of " play like you want, and more build variety " is not served by the current state of the vampire line. Not all vampires are close quarters blood warriors in tes lore. You have mage vampires, rogue vampires, bard vampires, etc. We vary in shape, size and class all across tamriel. The way vampire now fits that paradigm, the way it is proposed atm does not.

While a lot of the changes are good, the lack of any regen Bonus, and the bloated cost increase flies in the face of every vampire clan in tamriel. Not to mention from a balance perspective it highly punishes magicka players, since there is no cost increase for being a werewolf, so if we want to compare it 1 to 1, there is that too.

Again 5% is not much, build what ever vampire as you want. You always force "play like you want, and more build variety" statement but ESO already has restrictions, you can't cloak with sorc, for example, and use other skills and passives of other classes. Also you can't create non meta top DPS character, and as i understand from you complaints about loss of free regeneration bonus you are more interested in being top DPS rather than play as a vampire. Vampire never must be top choice, otherwise all/most players will be a vampires (as it now in top PVE on live servers).
And as someone mentioned above ZOS give you Brain Drain skill with damage and magicka restoration, but you want all top skills and want all of them being long range, maybe something wrong with your approach?

Im not throwing anything in anyones face. The goal of all these changes to light attacks and how weapons work was to increase build diversity, to stick true to " play how you want ", the whole point of the la changes are to make it so there is more diversity. These changes, which hopefully, and most likely will be toned down apparently, fly in the face of what ZOS WANTS.

A lot of people have multiple characters that are vampires, no one wants to play 11 vampire characters using all the same active abilities. And why does vampire get SO MANY negatives and werewolf only 1? It isnt balanced at all. We arent talking about being top dps, we are talking about being viable AT ALL. Anyway, i wont reply to you in the future if you are just going to act completely dismissive and not objective what so ever.

This flies in the face of lore, in the face of balance, in the face of the ZOS mission objective, and in the face of build diversity.

TheFM wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Or we want to build certain aspects of the vampire active skills into our current builds for unique variety instead of being shoehorned into a werewolf copy. Also, in tes vampires have always been more passive than active and werewolves more active than passive. You are being dismissive, and rude instead objective or helpful.

And how 5% cost increase will prevent you from doing so? If you want "to build certain aspects of the vampire active skills into our current builds for unique variety" go for 1st stage of vampirism and do so, for 5% cost increase for regular skills you get access to 6 vampire skills with 5% cost decrease and 1 passive skill. And at 4th stage of vampirism you get 20% cost increase for regular skills, but 20% cost decrease of vampire skills, so if you want to use more vampire skills go for 4th stage and include in you rotaion more vampiric skills to compensate cost increase of regular skills. Very good desicion by ZOS in my opinion.

TheFM wrote: »

As it stands now all classes will have the same main skills if they are a vampire, and the mission statement of " play like you want, and more build variety " is not served by the current state of the vampire line. Not all vampires are close quarters blood warriors in tes lore. You have mage vampires, rogue vampires, bard vampires, etc. We vary in shape, size and class all across tamriel. The way vampire now fits that paradigm, the way it is proposed atm does not.

While a lot of the changes are good, the lack of any regen Bonus, and the bloated cost increase flies in the face of every vampire clan in tamriel. Not to mention from a balance perspective it highly punishes magicka players, since there is no cost increase for being a werewolf, so if we want to compare it 1 to 1, there is that too.

Again 5% is not much, build what ever vampire as you want. You always force "play like you want, and more build variety" statement but ESO already has restrictions, you can't cloak with sorc, for example, and use other skills and passives of other classes. Also you can't create non meta top DPS character, and as i understand from you complaints about loss of free regeneration bonus you are more interested in being top DPS rather than play as a vampire. Vampire never must be top choice, otherwise all/most players will be a vampires (as it now in top PVE on live servers).
And as someone mentioned above ZOS give you Brain Drain skill with damage and magicka restoration, but you want all top skills and want all of them being long range, maybe something wrong with your approach?

Im not throwing anything in anyones face. The goal of all these changes to light attacks and how weapons work was to increase build diversity, to stick true to " play how you want ", the whole point of the la changes are to make it so there is more diversity. These changes, which hopefully, and most likely will be toned down apparently, fly in the face of what ZOS WANTS.

A lot of people have multiple characters that are vampires, no one wants to play 11 vampire characters using all the same active abilities. And why does vampire get SO MANY negatives and werewolf only 1? It isnt balanced at all. We arent talking about being top dps, we are talking about being viable AT ALL. Anyway, i wont reply to you in the future if you are just going to act completely dismissive and not objective what so ever.

This flies in the face of lore, in the face of balance, in the face of the ZOS mission objective, and in the face of build diversity.

It's not even on PTS yet, how do you know how it'll play? How do you know if it'll affect being viable?

20 percent cost increase to ALL non vampire skills will make any non vamp skill prohibitively expensive. You dont need a pts to understand that. And it also just makes no sense however you look at it. Balance, lore, zos goals of this entire patch, build diversity, etc.

Perashim wrote: »

I'm eagerly awaiting the opportunity to transform into a Vampire Lord on my necromancer, but the only questions that remains for me is how I'm going to build my vampire necro, and what Scion form to choose: Bat Scion or Night Scion.

Noxavian wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

At first I was happy about the reverse feeding but now I believe the Vampire changes should not happen, it does not even make sense, why would you get undead traits such as no healing, a weakness to fire and a corpse like appearance from feeding? you should be effected by them when your starving and corpse-like and not when your sated, at least before Vampirism functioned pretty much the same as the Vampires off of Daybreakers.

You see Vampires are stronger then Humans but Vampires are Mindless Beasts so when you have Vampirism you want to remain Human and you do that by drinking Human Blood but remaining Human means you do not turn into a Vampire and therefor do not gain any of there powers, it makes perfect sense.

Vampirism is a Disease that turns you into a Super powered Zombie and Blood is the medicine which keeps you normal and this is why feeding made you weaker.

LOOOOOOL. Dude you were against the vampire feeding changes and argued with both I and @Thevampirenight extensively . The entire deal. Now you're twisting your views around in order to push your statement. Nice! Either way, the vampire changes are happening.

Really cool move there.