[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

Jaraal · January 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

They just confirmed that WW (all of it, ult & skills) will have a bounty penalty (just like some necro skills).

I guess they don't even want WW to be viable for RP... like wtf...

Wow, just when you thought it couldn't get any worse....

Lughlongarm · January 2020

New sets looks interesting.
Aegis Caller + Blooddrinker + Kena

Good PVE WW damage build ?

Qbiken · January 2020

I think people at this point just need to accept that werewolf will never be viable for PvE or PvP again. Vampires are getting their rework with the next chapter and they'll be good for a while, but then they'll face the same faith werewolf got.

Was fun with ww while it lasted, but all constant direct and indirect nerfs made them completely unplayable and basically just another way to handicap yourself in both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The combat team could've listened to the people who played them and made them excell at niches, but apparently they wanted something else, which is sad.....

Jaraal · January 2020

Lughlongarm wrote: »

New sets looks interesting.
Aegis Caller + Blooddrinker + Kena

Good PVE WW damage build ?

Bleed stacking is good, however you can get more DPS with any other class because you can optimize and synergize your skills from a wider variety available, not to mention the extra damage from weapon passives that werewolf doesn't have access to. That "30% more damage for 30% more cost" rationale they use means nothing, because your damage to resource ratio is the same. Add in your ability to purge/cleanse, heal stack, damage shield stack, speed burst, controllable pets, group utility, etc.... and there's really no benefit to playing werewolf any more. And if it's going to cost you money in the form of a bounty in Update 25, then why even bother?

Kilcosu · January 2020

personally I think it's time for us to retain weapon passives while in form and be done with it.

SosRuvaak · January 2020

the devs dont care, thats a fact.

Its better to be persistent on feedback than to just accept the trash situation that is current ww.
the community has left soo much evidence for other players to decide not to be werewolf, or otherwise.
the players care about the game more than the devs, the only reason to post in these feedback threads is for other players to see.

the devs dont care.

newtinmpls · January 2020

SosRuvaak wrote: »

the devs dont care

Well, they do care what upper management tells them to do.

They do care about keeping their jobs.

SosRuvaak · January 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

SosRuvaak wrote: »

the devs dont care

Well, they do care what upper management tells them to do.

They do care about keeping their jobs.

with how broken the game is in areas, its not a doubt that the devs dont lose their job over ww being broken.
the devs wouldn't lose their jobs over mechanics not working. thats why there are lasting problems in the game.
on top of it, the higher ups vision for the game is pretty conflicted with the players.
its every release there is some detail that sucks. take housing for an example. players asked for housing, were told they were heard, only to be given a money hole for zenimax as a cover for housing.

"theyre a company and their goal is to make money"
im not seeing participating in their illusion(this game) of money making as fun anymore.

the trade isnt good.

i give zenimax my free time (the time i have for myself to USE the money ive made from work) AND i give my money to zenimax in trade for a game that has my favorite features broken and ruined more and more....its not worth it.
I am more satisfied with skyrim at this point. the nightblade class is poop. the servers dont even allow clean combat. WW is hardly redeemable in value. the community is hardly listened to. this game has come soo far, its sad to see it turn into this.

how often do you think zenimax fires employees? over what?

newtinmpls · February 2020

I agree that ZoS has problems 1-actually listening to the playerbase and 2-implementing what is wanted/needed.

That being said, most of the decisions are made at a higher level than the employees who implement them. This is true for most companies.

However over time, in response to player feedback, we have gotten housing, more pets, more furnishing options. I really do NOT think that this was in ZoS's original vision, although I think it definitely was in the vision of TES fans who came here to play. The fact that those two "visions" were so divergent, points to a huge problem/disconnect that continues to this day.

Kahnak · February 2020

Lughlongarm wrote: »

New sets looks interesting.
Aegis Caller + Blooddrinker + Kena

Good PVE WW damage build ?

It is easy to get decent damage with this kind of setup and it even gives you a leg up if you are a little newer to the game since getting damage from a WW only doing LA's is pretty simple. However, WW has a break point where the build plateaus sharply in comparison to meta builds for your average class setup. TL:DR It's possible to do solid damage with very little effort, but you will never do GREAT damage with WW - that's the tradeoff.

ck37090 · February 2020

1. Uptime (to short)
2. Feeding, (the premise is great but the function isn't... Other type skills allow you to siphon corpses while still moving/fighting

Chrlynsch · February 2020

On pts the pounce was reverted to the slow high leap, and the blood pillar is not showing over corpses you can devour.

newtinmpls · February 2020

ck37090 wrote: »

1. Uptime (to short)
2. Feeding, (the premise is great but the function isn't... Other type skills allow you to siphon corpses while still moving/fighting

^^^quoted for truth. I was going to discuss my main frustrations, but it's already been succinctly stated above.

I do also miss the stamina bennie we used to have in "normal" form many many moons ago.

I'd also like to see more "furryness" to more adequately mask the absurdly ken-doll-like crotch.

fiftypercentgrey · February 2020

my issues are:

the visuals - I'd like to see a more grizzled werewolf. Right now, it doesn't look like much
it feels "clunky" to play, especially the change into and out of werewolf and the heavy attacks
there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)
just an idea: there could be a small chance for werewolf-characters that they change into werewolf form when they are at very low health, because the werewolf nature takes over or something. It adds a feeling of how hard it is to control the bestial nature of the werewolf. Maybe, for balancing issues, that part of the werewolf should be switched off in dungeons and trials.

Jaraal · February 2020

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

Wuuffyy · February 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

Jaraal · February 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was so influential! Here all along I thought werewolves had become extinct for other reasons. Silly me!

Wuuffyy · February 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was so influential! Here all along I thought werewolves had become extinct for other reasons. Silly me!

People like you. All it takes is that toxic af mindset

Chrlynsch · February 2020

It's a long shot but please keep this thread on topic for werewolf feedback.

SosRuvaak · February 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was so influential! Here all along I thought werewolves had become extinct for other reasons. Silly me!

People like you. All it takes is that toxic af mindset

right back at ya buddy

this is a place for open and honest conversation about werewolf, if you cant handle it leave.

Jaraal · February 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was so influential! Here all along I thought werewolves had become extinct for other reasons. Silly me!

People like you. All it takes is that toxic af mindset

Well...... I don't have any control over what the devs give to or take away from our beloved werewolves. But I would certainly love seeing the thread being overwhelmed with positive comments about the state of werewolf today, as you seem to wish for. It used to be that way.... back when Wolfhunter dropped. Unfortunately, I'm not quite influential enough to get other players to post the positivity you seek. They will have to provide that on their own.

Anyone?

Qbiken · February 2020

Against my own will I jumped on my werewolf for some PvP during the Midyear event to see if was still somewhat viable for soloplay, and do I wish that I didn´t do that. While I´ve enjoyed the Midyear Event the session I had on my werewolf was probably the worst PvP experience I´ve had in a very long time.

The issues:

No sustained offensive pressure: Previously (pre-Scalebreaker) when you were attacked by a werewolf, their offensive pressure with powerful bleeds and defiles was to be reckoned with. A werewolf was actually a threat, now it´s just free AP. On live people just laugh at your pressure while activating whatever Heal Over Time they´ve at their disposal (Add that werewolf now has access to both major and minor defile). The bleed damage on their LA´s is an absolute joke.
The heal is one of the worst defensive tools in the game in terms of keeping you alive. The cost is absolutely atrocious and the heal is a joke as well. Meanwhile petsorcs has access to an incredibly more potent heal through matriach which heals for significantly more + heals other allies (through Line of Sight as well)
Their burst potential is joke compared to literally every single other stamina class in the game (I know ww isn´t a class but just deal with how I present it). These days, anyone can equipp Fury/Clever Alchemist/Truth (or whatever stamina set people enjoy), and get carried by an onslaught combo to dish out an absurd amount of burst damage. Meanwhile you´ve werewolf, a high cost ultimate that requires quite alot of effort to work in open world PvP, but at the same time has one of the worst damage potential in the game.

I´ll repeat the same suggestions I´ve made in the past to make werewolf viable for PvP again:

Revert the changes to bleed damage so that they once again ignore physical resistance
Buff ww bleed damage OR let werewolf benefit from weapon passives
Reduce the cost of the self heal to how it was Before the nerfs.
Give werewolf access to a snare removal. In the past I was against this suggestion since werewolf had both the offensive or defensive tools to deal with snares and roots, but with the current state of werewolf, they´re in need of something potent to make them viable outside of roleplay events in The Rift.

Jaraal · February 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

The bleed damage on their LA´s is an absolute joke.

And let's not forget that they completely removed light attack bleed from the Pack Leader morph!

I was playing a rarely used guy during the PvP event, basically just running town quests for Pelinial's boxes and free AP. I wasn't even expecting to have to fight..... but I got ambushed by some gankers and had to defend myself. Now, I haven't played this guy in over a year, and I forgot he had Pack Leader slotted on both bars. Needless to say, I ended up having to transform for the heals as I had none slotted, and I was really disappointed how fast I got burned down. I couldn't put any pressure at all on these guys, and my pets were basically useless, as their debuffs were Purged immediately.

Needless to say, I unslotted the ult after I revived. I'm hoping they will look at fixing us at some point during this PTS cycle, but I'm not holding my breath. It's unfortunate, because it was fun Pouncing around and trying to smack people down again, but the fun was too short lived and only resulted in overall disappointment.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Revert the changes to bleed damage so that they once again ignore physical resistance

One thing that could be done is to give WW some strong physical penetration bonus. That way bleed would still be strong on a WW, but in non ww form / non ww build it would not cause problems.

SosRuvaak · February 2020

werewolf was the OG unarmed combat skill line

Wuuffyy · February 2020

SosRuvaak wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

[*] there should be at least a small, permanent passive to werewolves even when not in werewolf form (some kind of buff and some kind of weakness maybe?)

You do realize that just slotting the werewolf ultimate gives you a 15% increase in stamina recovery, even when not transformed? And the weakness is that you you don't have a better ultimate slotted.

You realize that you don’t b-lo-g here and you’re the reason why there aren’t any werewolf players, right?

I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was so influential! Here all along I thought werewolves had become extinct for other reasons. Silly me!

People like you. All it takes is that toxic af mindset

right back at ya buddy

this is a place for open and honest conversation about werewolf, if you cant handle it leave.

. Same

Jaraal · February 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Give werewolf access to a snare removal.

In the past I was against this suggestion since werewolf had both the offensive or defensive tools to deal with snares and roots, but with the current state of werewolf, they´re in need of something potent to make them viable outside of roleplay events in The Rift.

Since our skills are limited, it would be nice if they could add some sort of built in cleanse/purge to our heals.... maybe keep Hircine's Rage the same with Major Brutality and 45% heal, but drop Hircine's Fortitude from a 60% heal to a 45% heal with a debuff eraser. I mean, it's still going to leave us toothless, but it might give us more time to run around before we die.

ScardyFox · February 2020

I've been fighting for werewolf rights since day one (OG) - if you really wanna make a difference at this point, wait for one of their stupid live streams and keep HOUNDING them about werewolf issues. When we did that YEARS ago it was the only time there ever addressed it publicly. It took a long time after but they actually did fix some birthing issues of the class.

... yes I said class. It will always be a class to me - hopefully someday it will be to them too.

santhoranb16_ESO · February 2020

ScardyFox wrote: »

... yes I said class. It will always be a class to me - hopefully someday it will be to them too.

I Hope that too, sadly it was only a very short window were they at least a little bit cared for werewolves.
From beginning on, werewolf mostly represented only a RP gimmick, in the early days (1000 ultimate and 2 buttons anyone?) and as now.

I dont see why they dont want to threat werewolves as a playable option (no one talks from overpowered or "must have" skill-line, i would never wish that!).

Chrlynsch · February 2020

This is not a nerf other sources of healing post.

I want to compare the werewolf heal to other DD's healing capabilities. I am using Molag Kena, New Moon Acolyte, and Clever Alchemist. This will give us close to top tooltip numbers for our DD heals, while also focusing Effective damage.

Remember werewolf ability are now balanced on a 25% more powerful 25% more costly factor.

Here we are in werewolf form with the sets procced with close to 28k Health.

In pvp we are looking at a little over a 7k burst self heal.

1.1640574564 health restored/ resource spent.

Now let's look at what the human form can pull with its vigor.

12.5k health restored over 4 seconds
3.5736891095 health restored/ resource spent.

2.69 health restored/ resource spent.

7.8k health restored over 5 seconds

The next two I swap over to a magic spected toon. Using the same gear.

4.27 health restored/ resource spent.

Almost 12.5k health

7,481 health restored
1.50 health restored/ resource spent
3.77 if we use it on a target that is below 75% health

Here one of the most expensive heals in the game outpaces Hircine's fortitude in terms of healing effectiveness.

Summary:
In order for werewolf to remain competitive in pvp, the healing properties of Hircine's Heal needs to be adjusted. It is a tank heal, that does not fit into Werewolf's damage dealing archetype that ZOS has stated that werewolf is.

As other DD gain damage they also gain survival through the strength of their heal. In order for werewolf to gain survival they must sacrifice their damage by investing into Health, Magicka, and Magicka regen. This goes against their 25% more powerful abilities for 25% more cost.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler