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Story Mode Dungeons: Do we want them?
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Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »Why not make dungeons without story.. TRial, training etc. No npcs.. Wouldnt that make the hardcore crowd happy?
But make the story experience seamless. No rule breaking with suddenly coming to a full stop because the story telling shell: game, wants you to meta a group and chat and talk...
Imagine reading a book, and suddenly the pages are in italian and chinese.. Why??
Imagine reading a book, it sets up this terrifying villain. It goes into detail about his plots and the adventurers before now that have all tried and failed to take him down. Now a new hero arrives, described in glorious detail their travels to his lair, and then says “villain died the end”. That’s what overland is to most skilled players.
There’s no flavor behind a 100k hp “boss”. There’s no flavor behind a “world ending threat” that dies in 3s.
What does have flavor and significant narrative appeal, is an enemy that actually provides a challenge. That survives a couple hits and actually gets to finish its dialogue before its dead.
You turn a dungeon in any way shape or form into a point and click text game with invulnerable NPCs and gutted mechanics just so you can read a couple lines of fluff conversation, then that’s no longer a compelling narrative. That’s pointless and no more engaging than watching someone else play through it.
The storytelling is fine. It’s the one good thing about ESO, but it requires you not attack in overland until the enemy stops talking, or he won’t get through his first line. In a dungeon, the questing is seamless, the NPC companion dialogue is fluff that isn’t needed to build the story fully.
The Wrathstone dungeons weren’t remotely important to the Elsweyr story as a whole. The stone tablets could have been literally anything else, and narrative would have remained the same in those dungeons.
You aren’t missing out on a story when you don’t hear every extra line of dialogue, you’re not missing out on the ice cream in a sundae, you’re missing at worst the extra swirls of whipped cream.Edited by Contaminate on January 24, 2020 7:37AM3 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What you describe is a different problem. And I do not min max skilling and outfitting so for me overland is as hard as for you vet dungeon.
I play immersed and put skill points here and there. In wrong slots etc. But I dont care for min maxing and I dont want to care.
What you describe on the other hand could be achieved with dynamically scaling mobs. Someone who min-maxes his character has to fight harder mobs and gets better loot. Or even other solutions, but its another topic.
But what we describe with story dungeons is this missing option for us..
It seems like the devs thinking goes like this:
wow does this, wow good, eso must also does this.
And thats just stupid.
Edited by curtisnewton on January 24, 2020 7:52AM6 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »What you describe is a different problem. And I do not min max skilling and outfitting so for me overland is as hard as for you vet dungeon.
I play immersed and put skill points here and there. In wrong slots etc. But I dont care for min maxing and I dont want to care.
What you describe on the other hand could be achieved with dynamically scaling mobs. Someone who min-maxes his character has to fight harder mobs and gets better loot. Or even other solutions, but its another topic.
But what we describe with story dungeons is this missing option for us..
It seems like the devs thinking goes like this:
wow does this, wow good, eso must also does this.
And thats just stupid.
No, you don't have to min-max to find this game painfully easy. My rando gear nooblet toons crush the game only slightly less quickly than my max level toons. They're certainly never in any danger even though I don't even place CP on them. I never upgrade their gear.
This game stops being a challenge once you learn to match ok dropped sets, block, dodge, and interrupt, and is never anything remotely like a vet dungeon no matter what gear, skills, passives, or lack thereof you have. Also, having to knowingly avoid everything the game teaches you in order not to steamroll the game, is not good game design, and it causes people to be woefully unprepared for group content once they dip their toes in due to the game not requiring anything from them.
Dungeons HAVE a story mode, it's called normal, where nothing is a one shot and the primary challenge is just your ability to follow mechanics. If so many people's main focus is just being able to read the dialogue, which as I said is complete fluff because meat of the quests are voiced aloud without any prompting required, then they should easily be able to form a group who wants to do the same. They have that option completely available to them, and if you feel like you missed out on anything then drop the quest instead of turning it in, and you can do it all over again.2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Contaminate wrote: »curtisnewton wrote: »What you describe is a different problem. And I do not min max skilling and outfitting so for me overland is as hard as for you vet dungeon.
I play immersed and put skill points here and there. In wrong slots etc. But I dont care for min maxing and I dont want to care.
What you describe on the other hand could be achieved with dynamically scaling mobs. Someone who min-maxes his character has to fight harder mobs and gets better loot. Or even other solutions, but its another topic.
But what we describe with story dungeons is this missing option for us..
It seems like the devs thinking goes like this:
wow does this, wow good, eso must also does this.
And thats just stupid.
No, you don't have to min-max to find this game painfully easy. My rando gear nooblet toons crush the game only slightly less quickly than my max level toons. They're certainly never in any danger even though I don't even place CP on them. I never upgrade their gear.
This game stops being a challenge once you learn to match ok dropped sets, block, dodge, and interrupt, and is never anything remotely like a vet dungeon no matter what gear, skills, passives, or lack thereof you have. Also, having to knowingly avoid everything the game teaches you in order not to steamroll the game, is not good game design, and it causes people to be woefully unprepared for group content once they dip their toes in due to the game not requiring anything from them.
Dungeons HAVE a story mode, it's called normal, where nothing is a one shot and the primary challenge is just your ability to follow mechanics. If so many people's main focus is just being able to read the dialogue, which as I said is complete fluff because meat of the quests are voiced aloud without any prompting required, then they should easily be able to form a group who wants to do the same. They have that option completely available to them, and if you feel like you missed out on anything then drop the quest instead of turning it in, and you can do it all over again.
your so call solution is exactly the problem
having to drop the quest over and over again in hope that next time maybe you'll get to see all that dialogue IS THE PROBLEM
what you call fluff - is THE MEAT for the story focused player. its THE reason to do the dungeon in a first place.
especially now that they are making those stories part of ongoing storylines.
no. even in a group that is willing to do some waiting/is also in it for the story, its NOT the same. and its been explain in this thread and other threads like it - over and over, WHY its not working. you just refuse to acknowledge it, because YOU personaly don't care about those aspects, which means - they are fluff and are inconsequential and don't matter.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***14 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Sure, why not. I know some dungeons are hardly ever played. So people who can never find a group for it, or are kicked in advance because of reasons, or just suck at dungeons., can also enjoy the dungeon.
Rewards should be adjusted though.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."6 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Why not not give dungeons a story solo mode?
Is there a reason against it?4 -
Rasande_Robin✭✭✭✭Other:The npc will have to talk as you fight your way through the dungeon, since no one is patient enough to wait for you.PC/EU: Orcana "something"-stone0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Rasande_Robin wrote: »The npc will have to talk as you fight your way through the dungeon, since no one is patient enough to wait for you.
ATABAR, WHERE ARE YOU?!?!2 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Contaminate wrote: »curtisnewton wrote: »What you describe is a different problem. And I do not min max skilling and outfitting so for me overland is as hard as for you vet dungeon.
I play immersed and put skill points here and there. In wrong slots etc. But I dont care for min maxing and I dont want to care.
What you describe on the other hand could be achieved with dynamically scaling mobs. Someone who min-maxes his character has to fight harder mobs and gets better loot. Or even other solutions, but its another topic.
But what we describe with story dungeons is this missing option for us..
It seems like the devs thinking goes like this:
wow does this, wow good, eso must also does this.
And thats just stupid.
No, you don't have to min-max to find this game painfully easy. My rando gear nooblet toons crush the game only slightly less quickly than my max level toons. They're certainly never in any danger even though I don't even place CP on them. I never upgrade their gear.
This game stops being a challenge once you learn to match ok dropped sets, block, dodge, and interrupt, and is never anything remotely like a vet dungeon no matter what gear, skills, passives, or lack thereof you have. Also, having to knowingly avoid everything the game teaches you in order not to steamroll the game, is not good game design, and it causes people to be woefully unprepared for group content once they dip their toes in due to the game not requiring anything from them.
Dungeons HAVE a story mode, it's called normal, where nothing is a one shot and the primary challenge is just your ability to follow mechanics. If so many people's main focus is just being able to read the dialogue, which as I said is complete fluff because meat of the quests are voiced aloud without any prompting required, then they should easily be able to form a group who wants to do the same. They have that option completely available to them, and if you feel like you missed out on anything then drop the quest instead of turning it in, and you can do it all over again.
your so call solution is exactly the problem
having to drop the quest over and over again in hope that next time maybe you'll get to see all that dialogue IS THE PROBLEM
what you call fluff - is THE MEAT for the story focused player. its THE reason to do the dungeon in a first place.
especially now that they are making those stories part of ongoing storylines.
no. even in a group that is willing to do some waiting/is also in it for the story, its NOT the same. and its been explain in this thread and other threads like it - over and over, WHY its not working. you just refuse to acknowledge it, because YOU personaly don't care about those aspects, which means - they are fluff and are inconsequential and don't matter.
The Wrathstone dungeons were completely separate from the Elsweyr story. Could have replaced the word “Wrathstone” with “Artifact” and nothing about the dialogue would have changed aside from that one word.
The entirety of their impact on the story was one line of dialogue during the prologue.
I call optional dungeon dialogue what it is: extra fluff. Additions that don’t affect the overall narrative because the central narratives in dungeons are fully and automatically voiced aloud.
Everyone claims it’s “not the same” to read dialogue with a group, so instead they ask for every dungeon to have its mechanics and all aspects of effort requirements removed and made impossible to fail, just so they can read the bonus fluff.
Make quests repeatable. That’s fine. But there is literally no point in stripping out what makes a dungeon group content to appeal to people who want to read a dungeon instead of play through it.2 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.How do people do dungeons, do you join a qeue and then keep doing stuff until enough ppl join?
How many minutes do you have to wait?
I am trying this weekend again, the first dungeonset of the dragons: wrathstone (something something ice or frost cave and the other name dont remember).
How long are dungeons?
Do I need to talk and chat much?
Do I have to be Tank or a humvee or jet fighter or sth. Fancy?Edited by curtisnewton on January 24, 2020 10:18AM0 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »How do people do dungeons, do join a qeue and then keep doing stuff until enough ppl join?
How many minutes do you have to wait. I am trying this weekend again, the first dungeonset if the dragons: wrathstone (something something ice or frost cave and the other name dont remember).
How long are dungeons?
Join a guild that runs PvE content. Get advice to make sure you’re equipped to handle the standard DLC dungeon which has very low requirements so it shouldn’t take much of anything if you have a decent grasp of the game and ok gear.
Queueing up solo as DPS takes 20-30 minutes when the Group Finder is working. Tanks get nearly instant queues, healers maybe 3-10 minutes depending if it’s a pledge that day. You can do whatever you want to pass the time while waiting on the queue. It doesn’t stop you from doing anything.
Creating your own group is the better way, since you can establish a pace at the start and get a feel for the group’s comp beforehand, plus you know everyone already and will be on cordial terms.2 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.
You underestimate people, if there is a way to farm set gear 100 times faster, it wouldn't matter if it's white.
No rewards for a no effort mode, otherwise it's clear why people want it.
A quest-/storymode should still have drops like normal overland quest content or delves. After all, it would most likely still be harder than a delve (most likely inbetween delve and public dungeon in terms of difficulty).
Of course it shouldn't award dungeon set pieces, those must be reserved for group modes. They are the greatest incentive, besides the fugly monster helmets/shoulders, for running dungeons over and over again after all.
A storymode should also not grant achievements, they are tied to the the normal/vet modes and that's fine. I'm a bit torn about the skill point, since it would depend on when the skill point is gained. If it's for defeating the final boss/finishing the dungeon... then it shouldn't be granted. If, however, it is tied to the quest, it should be granted.
No skill point. That point you earn through normal or vet. You dont earn anything from story mode.3 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »I dont like real life things when i am playing elder scrolls. Wanted to do a dungeon (first elseweyr) and had to qeue, which is already more real life meta than i like. But after waiting five - ten minutes and being killed by dungeon mobs over and over i cancelled it.
The extreme mob strength gain feels immersion breaking: i normally 'kill' deadra but suddenly I die to a dog?
Also I dont want to join guilds and talk or write.. I just want to be immersed.. Have the feeling i got to skip dungeons. I just hope i wont miss important story pieces..
Just hope devs recognize elder scrolls strength and not force wow gameplay down our throates. Why is there a need for static group dungeons anyway? Thats so anachronistic, its 2020 and not 2006....
Why not dynamically sync to player count and make it open. More players, more mobs, or greater mobs....
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.TokenIntellect wrote: »Many players are vehemently opposed to what they're doing with dungeons. Validating the tender feelings of the 'hardcore' gamers should not come at the expense of burying the story behind one-shot mechanics and forced group play.
A failure to imagine a game that works for more people is one of the biggest disappointments of this last year.
Oh, and how does adding something that expands the access to story take something away from the 'hardcore' side of the game? That's just silliness. It's not a zero-sum game.
Except its been proven to happen on multiple mmos, so its not.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
about 75 percent of the content is story content. They release content to multiple player groups, shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else. While im not opposed to the idea with 0 rewards, I am opposed to it if its going to cause other aspects of the game to get neglected.1 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else.
Do you think it is really a lot more than sth. Like:
If player count = 1
Then mobstrength factor = 0.2
?
Story mode sounds so big, but in fact.. Just being easier with weaker enemies would be already ok. As there is already a deep scaling mechanic in place I doubt much dev time was lost.
And gaining a 60% more happy player base (according to the polls) should be worth it anyway. And how can sth. Optional offend anyone is beyond me.
Edited by curtisnewton on January 24, 2020 1:20PM2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »
Cause i am sure what mmo that lacks tanks in group finder prefers more of them not going to group finder.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
about 75 percent of the content is story content. They release content to multiple player groups, shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else. While im not opposed to the idea with 0 rewards, I am opposed to it if its going to cause other aspects of the game to get neglected.
So as long as it is instead of part of overland content you are ok with it? You my friend are less opposed then i am, but made a whole propaganda here xd1 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »
Cause i am sure what mmo that lacks tanks in group finder prefers more of them not going to group finder.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
about 75 percent of the content is story content. They release content to multiple player groups, shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else. While im not opposed to the idea with 0 rewards, I am opposed to it if its going to cause other aspects of the game to get neglected.
If tanks only play for reward and not fun, then the problem lies there....
Make tank fun again..
And why trinity at all? Throw tanks dds healer supporters out.. Its old school.. Who needs this artifcially forced gameplaystructure from 1837?
Julius Ceasar even said he dont likes tanks.
But honestly it can all be regulated through rewards.
I dont even care if have shiny_killer_staff_the_shine or not...
All i want is free access to my reward, which is going through the story without immersive breaks like organizing groups, planning guilds, founding parties, doing office work, disciplinaring a member, blabla..
I am an old fart and started mmos in 2003 with eve and lineage 2...
I had all that typical mmo stuff enough. It bores me. I play ESO cause of ES and not O.
I pay €, can't I voice my opinion?Edited by curtisnewton on January 24, 2020 1:35PM4 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »curtisnewton wrote: »
Cause i am sure what mmo that lacks tanks in group finder prefers more of them not going to group finder.
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
about 75 percent of the content is story content. They release content to multiple player groups, shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else. While im not opposed to the idea with 0 rewards, I am opposed to it if its going to cause other aspects of the game to get neglected.
So as long as it is instead of part of overland content you are ok with it? You my friend are less opposed then i am, but made a whole propaganda here xd
If tanks only play for reward and not fun, then the problem lies there....
My tanks play for fun, i pug vDLC daily, end up explaining mechanics for a lot of dungeons, sadly the later ones (wrathstone+scalebreaker) have rough dps checks, cant be passed with 40k group dps (frostvault can somehow be passed, but dom, lom are harshhhh) so i end up getting in a lot of groups that cant properly pass the dungeon. Problem is, non dlc, BORES MEEEEEE.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.curtisnewton wrote: »
If you wanted a single player game, eso was never the game for you. ever. They cater to everyone, and you are not the crowd they are catering to when it comes to dungeons. And yes, demon dogs should be able to kill you quickly.
Tbh the game being mmo shouldn't affect the content available. Especially since the game has such a big casual community from TeS games. Now i agree that skill points should not be given on story mode (even though they are tied to the quest, so if it is implemented they will probably put it in anyway) because it will lower the initiative to go multiplayer for dungeon skill points (i would totally take all my tank toons for quick rushed story mode for skill points ez, and thats already a huge reason against it)
shifting to spending dev time on a story mode would take away somewhere else.
Do you think it is really a lot more than sth. Like:
If player count = 1
Then mobstrength factor = 0.2
?
Story mode sounds so big, but in fact.. Just being easier with weaker enemies would be already ok. As there is already a deep scaling mechanic in place I doubt much dev time was lost.
And gaining a 60% more happy player base (according to the polls) should be worth it anyway. And how can sth. Optional offend anyone is beyond me.
Same could be said about an instance for vet mode overland.1 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Somehow I think ZOS has bigger fish to fryEdited by TheGreatBlackBear on January 24, 2020 1:44PM1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Contaminate wrote: »Contaminate wrote: »curtisnewton wrote: »What you describe is a different problem. And I do not min max skilling and outfitting so for me overland is as hard as for you vet dungeon.
I play immersed and put skill points here and there. In wrong slots etc. But I dont care for min maxing and I dont want to care.
What you describe on the other hand could be achieved with dynamically scaling mobs. Someone who min-maxes his character has to fight harder mobs and gets better loot. Or even other solutions, but its another topic.
But what we describe with story dungeons is this missing option for us..
It seems like the devs thinking goes like this:
wow does this, wow good, eso must also does this.
And thats just stupid.
No, you don't have to min-max to find this game painfully easy. My rando gear nooblet toons crush the game only slightly less quickly than my max level toons. They're certainly never in any danger even though I don't even place CP on them. I never upgrade their gear.
This game stops being a challenge once you learn to match ok dropped sets, block, dodge, and interrupt, and is never anything remotely like a vet dungeon no matter what gear, skills, passives, or lack thereof you have. Also, having to knowingly avoid everything the game teaches you in order not to steamroll the game, is not good game design, and it causes people to be woefully unprepared for group content once they dip their toes in due to the game not requiring anything from them.
Dungeons HAVE a story mode, it's called normal, where nothing is a one shot and the primary challenge is just your ability to follow mechanics. If so many people's main focus is just being able to read the dialogue, which as I said is complete fluff because meat of the quests are voiced aloud without any prompting required, then they should easily be able to form a group who wants to do the same. They have that option completely available to them, and if you feel like you missed out on anything then drop the quest instead of turning it in, and you can do it all over again.
your so call solution is exactly the problem
having to drop the quest over and over again in hope that next time maybe you'll get to see all that dialogue IS THE PROBLEM
what you call fluff - is THE MEAT for the story focused player. its THE reason to do the dungeon in a first place.
especially now that they are making those stories part of ongoing storylines.
no. even in a group that is willing to do some waiting/is also in it for the story, its NOT the same. and its been explain in this thread and other threads like it - over and over, WHY its not working. you just refuse to acknowledge it, because YOU personaly don't care about those aspects, which means - they are fluff and are inconsequential and don't matter.
The Wrathstone dungeons were completely separate from the Elsweyr story. Could have replaced the word “Wrathstone” with “Artifact” and nothing about the dialogue would have changed aside from that one word.
The entirety of their impact on the story was one line of dialogue during the prologue.
I call optional dungeon dialogue what it is: extra fluff. Additions that don’t affect the overall narrative because the central narratives in dungeons are fully and automatically voiced aloud.
Everyone claims it’s “not the same” to read dialogue with a group, so instead they ask for every dungeon to have its mechanics and all aspects of effort requirements removed and made impossible to fail, just so they can read the bonus fluff.
Make quests repeatable. That’s fine. But there is literally no point in stripping out what makes a dungeon group content to appeal to people who want to read a dungeon instead of play through it.
yep. complete ignorance of what we are talking about solely becasue it doesn't matter to you.
most of the narratives in solo stories don't actualy affect the outcome in any way. doesn't make them any less interesting or important. they are there to give DEPTH to the story. they are there to flesh out the setting. (for example, regardless of whom you chose to come with you on a wedding heist, the heist itself progresses exactly the same way. the only thing that changes is ambient dialogue. but that ambient dialogue is in itself enough of a reason to make any particular choice)
and we are NOT. ASKING. TO. REPLACE. CURRENT. VERSION. we are asking for EXTRA setting to allow us to enjoy the fluff. just because it doesn't matter to YOU, doesn't make it unimportant. otherwise, developers wouldn't have bothered to add it in a first place.
and to add, because the same reason keep cropping up over and over. IMO. skillpoints should be tied to first time completion achievement of the dungeon, not the quest. first completion achievement could stay with normal difficulty or higher, that way you cannot "cheese" your skill points via solo mode. solo mode doesn't need to drop any dungeon sets, random green gear/vendor trash similar to overland is plenty. that way you cannot cheese your way to farming it as it would be pointless/inefficient.
the point is to have an opportunity to experience the quest and the lore and the pace that is not affected by anyone else. leaving actual group play, mechanics and all which is a completely different kind of fun - intact for group play.Edited by Linaleah on January 24, 2020 2:16PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
Ciana_Rilian✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?
you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.
When will we cry for story mode trials?
Edited by Ciana_Rilian on January 24, 2020 2:14PM2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Ciana_Rilian wrote: »Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?
you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.
When will we cry for story mode trials?
becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.
story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.Edited by Linaleah on January 24, 2020 2:18PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ciana_Rilian wrote: »Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?
you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.
When will we cry for story mode trials?
I think this is mistaken. Why hasn’t normal dungeons killed veteran? I can get basically the same loot for less trouble. In fact, I literally can’t remember the last time I ran a dungeon because I wanted a piece of gear. I still just run ebon alkosh and have never upgraded. Yet I’m still running vet dungeons.
My point is there is a healthy population seeking challenge rather than seeking the easiest version to get the rewards.
And the whole precept is that it will be absent the rewards.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest4 -
Ciana_Rilian✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Ciana_Rilian wrote: »Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?
you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.
When will we cry for story mode trials?
becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.
story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.
What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other:Keep up the good fight. Do not stress about people suggesting that to get a solo story mode of these dungeons they need to get PvP in PvE zones or a vet instance of zones. Zos will make a decision on this on it's own merits. Not other aspects that have no bearing or relevance.
There are two facts to focus on. Maybe more.
First, the zone stories are designed to be solo, not group, and Zos has chosen to bring this into the DLC dungeons so a solo version of them makes sense. Another game that used to be a major title did this because it makes sense and it had no measurable negative impact on the game. I pointed out the real reason for that games decline earlier.
Second, money, money, money. Whether you rend (ESO+) access to the dungeons or buy the DLCs outright that is money which is the reason Zos creates all this content. It could possibly increase revenue from people who normally avoid dungeons due to the toxic nature we have seen from GF related thread.
In the end, those who like to do the group version will still do the group versions because it is what they like to do. It would likely be minimal effort for Zos to create these story mode versions once they had it setup.2 -
Ciana_Rilian✭✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.BejaProphet wrote: »Ciana_Rilian wrote: »Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?
you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.
When will we cry for story mode trials?
I think this is mistaken. Why hasn’t normal dungeons killed veteran? I can get basically the same loot for less trouble. In fact, I literally can’t remember the last time I ran a dungeon because I wanted a piece of gear. I still just run ebon alkosh and have never upgraded. Yet I’m still running vet dungeons.
My point is there is a healthy population seeking challenge rather than seeking the easiest version to get the rewards.
And the whole precept is that it will be absent the rewards.
there is still a reward diffrence between vet and normal. regarding item quality, keys, achievements and monster helms. so there is definetly a need for a diffrence between normal and vet. You like challenge? ilke to be efficient. When i wanna do a daily dungeon run for the bonus exp i do normal. when i need gear i do vet. Theres a reason for both of them to exist.
Like i said at top i would be semi okay with it if there was no reward at all, but people that want to implement it still cant agree themselves on wether there should be rewards for solo play or not.0