Whether this change ultimately makes BG's more fun as there are way more close exciting games or not remains to be seen but as they said it is an experiment. While it would most definitely suck to be someone who has a particular person they played with every day if this experiment, ultimately brings more people into or back into BG's then it allows ZOS to consider putting fourth more resources to open more options for different ques as have been discussed.
Perhaps it even leads to the option of more maps or game types if the percentage of players increases enough.
Karmanorway wrote: »Great change ive waited for this a long time. But i suggest one more queue for group vs group since some ppl want to play with their friends ☺️
A lot of my friends will come back for this, finally No more getting chased away from BGs because of premades! 🖤
Woodoochill wrote: »The third team is and always will be the problem, not premades. Three teams exacerbates every single possible issue with matchmaking to a much greater extent than two because the most skilled team always has the potential advantage of using a third team to turn every pvp situation into a numbers advantage for them.
This is not going to bring players back or encourage people to queue more. Players don't queue for BGs because they aren't fun, not because they lose to premades. Most people don't care if they lose if they have fun. Most players don't have fun getting rear-ended while in an even fight. I've never, ever seen any MMO outright ban all premades, even duos. This is a first, and the major difference here between ESO and every other MMO is the third team. Three teams leads to messy, directionless, disorganized matches where you're either outnumbered, outnumbering your opponents, or ignoring pvp altogether to do objectives while the other two teams pvp. None of these scenarios have any sort of direct appeal to players.
Winning doesn't feel good, because you probably did it by taking advantage of superior numbers by rear-ending another team, stealing kills, or standing on a flag while everyone else did some pvp. Losing especially doesn't feel good because you often lose when people steal your kills, or when you decide to pvp, which you're penalized for because the third team is then allowed to take objectives without any sort of confrontation. It sucks and it isn't fun. You don't ever win by directly engaging in pvp, you win by waiting to jump someone about to die, or avoiding pvp as much as you possibly can.
No matter what balance changes or changes to queueing are made, the third team will always make BGs a miserable gameplay experience for just about everyone involved. Scrap the whole system and just copy WoW or Rift and implement normal 8v8 BGs with bigger maps and no deathmatch. Make the max premade group size 4, match premade groups up against premade groups with pugs on both sides, and you'll finally have (mostly) balanced, fun pvp."Pre-mades vs pugs" is all on the pugs. Entirely on them. There is *nothing* stopping you from going and getting three other people and forming a pre-made yourself, except just plain not being willing to go to the effort. People shouldn't expect standards to be lowered to accommodate their own lack of motivation. This is just "we want everything to be free and easy" with a different mask on.
ESO would be the outlier here, since basically every game in existence doesn't allow you to form a full premade and queue up against pugs. Why? Because while people don't mind losing half the time (as is the outcome of most matchmaking systems), they do mind not having a chance to win at all. Implementing the requirement that you get three of your friends in voice chat to have any chance of enjoying an instanced match is the quickest way to make sure just about everyone stops queueing for those matches. People who want to pvp in an organized premade are 1% of the player base. The players you think want everything to be "free and easy" are the other 99%, and they're the ones who make the game possible in the first place.
Of course when you rush in to 8 players you die. This 3 team is about using your brain just as your hand to press keys. If you overextend, you die, If you hide and wait, you will lose for being uneffective. This 3 team fights are like deadly tango, you move forward, other team moves back, 3rd team moves sideways, to later attack your back so you change your focus to them, then 2nd team moves forward pushing you back and turning 3rd team to them... This is not some coded PVE where you can turn your brain off. If you personaly die to situations like you described than its bad news for you - lack of positional awareness and lack of planning.
When you keep being attacked from both sides you and only you is the cause of such situations since it can be prevented in almost any cases.
And it also fullfills the initial trailer of 3 aliance heros waiting for other 2 to make the first move so they can exploit it.
Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
How do you prevent 4-premade facing two duos or a duo + 2 solos? Because this kind of match will most likely be the very same pugstomp like 4 solos against 4-premade (the reason why all of this madness is happening right now).
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
How do you prevent 4-premade facing two duos or a duo + 2 solos? Because this kind of match will most likely be the very same pugstomp like 4 solos against 4-premade (the reason why all of this madness is happening right now).
"4 mans get prioritized to 4vs4 deathmach which require just 2 teams and have high chance of popping. 4 man vs 2 duos isnt perfect balance but its as close as it gets without insane q times for everyone. Duos vs trios wouldnt be balanced either so you cant make system to please everyone at same time equally. Those duos are allowed to go solo game mode only where they will meet only other solo players if they wish so." //Gravord
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
How do you prevent 4-premade facing two duos or a duo + 2 solos? Because this kind of match will most likely be the very same pugstomp like 4 solos against 4-premade (the reason why all of this madness is happening right now).
"4 mans get prioritized to 4vs4 deathmach which require just 2 teams and have high chance of popping. 4 man vs 2 duos isnt perfect balance but its as close as it gets without insane q times for everyone. Duos vs trios wouldnt be balanced either so you cant make system to please everyone at same time equally. Those duos are allowed to go solo game mode only where they will meet only other solo players if they wish so." //Gravord
But wouldn't you agree that 4-premade vs two duos is much more imbalanced than let's say 4 solos against a duo + 2 solos? Hence merging solos and duos into one separate queu is much closer to perfect balance. A restriction added to matchmaking that only one pair can appear in a team at a time would solve everything.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
How do you prevent 4-premade facing two duos or a duo + 2 solos? Because this kind of match will most likely be the very same pugstomp like 4 solos against 4-premade (the reason why all of this madness is happening right now).
"4 mans get prioritized to 4vs4 deathmach which require just 2 teams and have high chance of popping. 4 man vs 2 duos isnt perfect balance but its as close as it gets without insane q times for everyone. Duos vs trios wouldnt be balanced either so you cant make system to please everyone at same time equally. Those duos are allowed to go solo game mode only where they will meet only other solo players if they wish so." //Gravord
But wouldn't you agree that 4-premade vs two duos is much more imbalanced than let's say 4 solos against a duo + 2 solos? Hence merging solos and duos into one separate queu is much closer to perfect balance. A restriction added to matchmaking that only one pair can appear in a team at a time would solve everything.
"You need to keep in mind that not any 4 players in q together are actually good and will produce results. Higher quality players can win in strong duo vs 4 ppl quite often. Anyone at any time can solo q vs only other solo q if he wants to, q solo vs any setups, as a filler to 2 man, 3 man, meeting other 2-3-4 man teams. Full 4 man premades will most of time be put into fight vs other 4 man premades, and if they happen to land vs not other full 4 man teams, wasnt whole 3 faction system designed to counter that issue? 2 weaker teams can band up and strike 4 man premade from two sides at same time with not much effort." //Gravord
I understand the need for a reset with a new horizon (feel bad for beginers starting over with pros) but i feel like the pvp is not taken seriously, surely pvp is to kill other players and feel good about it, and of course with that we want a ranked system to se how good at it we are.
Love the battlegrounds and how the different modes and maps make different char good and bad. I think all we need is what we had, normal queing, with friends or not does not matter NORMAL QUE based only on group mmr (from every member of party or queing individual). An mmr based on performance that goes up and down to help match players right, basic.
Then a ranked mode with two sepperate ques and seperate "ranked mmr", based soley on ones competetiv rank match togheter as closy as possible, party members can expand gap. First is just basic solo que possible with one party member. Second is Group que for partys of 2 and 4 (sry 3 guys).
Personaly i think competetvi should have all the maps and game mods at random like normal que just to give it more depth.
Wish list!
1. ranked que solo /dou, own seperet visibly mmr
2. ranked group que /partys of 2 or 4), another own seperet visbly mmr.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Gravord
January 21 edited January 21 in General ESO Discussion
3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.
Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3.
Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
“Quote”
How do you prevent 4-premade facing two duos or a duo + 2 solos? Because this kind of match will most likely be the very same pugstomp like 4 solos against 4-premade (the reason why all of this madness is happening right now).
@Mojomonkeyman
Not everyone has to have the same opinion, not everyone plays the game the same way as you and I (and we both also play it differently). It is even more important to communicate to ZOS via feedback if you dislike this change and explain why. Having feedback both for and against the change is important for evaluation.
@Mojomonkeyman
Not everyone has to have the same opinion, not everyone plays the game the same way as you and I (and we both also play it differently). It is even more important to communicate to ZOS via feedback if you dislike this change and explain why. Having feedback both for and against the change is important for evaluation.
Mojomonkeyman wrote: »@Mojomonkeyman
Not everyone has to have the same opinion, not everyone plays the game the same way as you and I (and we both also play it differently). It is even more important to communicate to ZOS via feedback if you dislike this change and explain why. Having feedback both for and against the change is important for evaluation.
My point stands, you wont see me coming into trial threads and suggest a 3 months soloQ only experiment would be a good idea - because 1) I am not part of the raiding community and consequently 2) my opinion wouldnt be very educated and in total disregard of raiding community efforts.
You are not part of the (sub-)community that is being targeted here, you dont even rely on ingame tools to get your social interaction out of the game. Get off your high horse, accept that your feedback has very little value for this discussion (just like mine would have in raiding environments) and let people contribute who actually use the tools that we are going to lose.
Waiting time of 20-30min is what high mmr players have dealt with for 3 years now. It is a problem, indeed. But you know what's even more frustrating? Playing with and against players way above or below your own skill level. Or being a support player and randomly getting mixed in with a bunch of stealthy bow people or even more healers on your team.
Can you imagine getting soloQed into a trial with 9 healers and 2 snipe spamming stealthblades? Bg groups are just as non-functional when theres not a baseline/framework for playable group compositions.
Your comments are taking none of this into account, they cannot - because you dont play the content. And you seem to be unwilling to properly reflect on how detrimental and impactful those changes are - if they would hit your content.