Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

Canon is what we make of it. Everything is told by the people in the series.

When the old lore master left. He left this to the community and I copied and pasted some of it here.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.

Tamriel is a world where all history, past and future, is described in the ever-shifting texts of the mysterious Elder Scrolls, which tell always of what might be rather than of what is.
And what your character does, and says, and believes, becomes part of that world. For you, and whoever else shares the experience, what happened is now part of the lore. The non-player characters are all there, ready to share their stories with you, but it’s you who makes those stories live, because your character has agency and meaningful choices where the NPCs do not. Moreover, what your character does persists for you, and the stories you’ve told and the experiences you’ve shared with your friends live on in your own memories. You just added to the history of Tamriel.

What he is saying all our view points all our beliefs are true. Canon is what we make up it what our characters make up it. Each of us determine it differently. While I see vampires as unliving, some see them as undead. Both would be true because that is what the characters believe and what the players believe. If a vampire or person believes a vampire is a living being they are a living being.
So there is no one canon there is everyone's canon and each person's canon is different and all of them are true. Just like a dragonbreak where all outcomes become reality similar principle.

Reminds me of what Michael Kirkbride once said:
"Tamriel never belonged to Bethesda. It was the other way around.

As for canon, it's really all interactive fiction, and that should mean something to everyone. That said, I appreciate and understand the stamp of "official", but I think it will hurt more that it will help in the long run.

TES should be Open Source. It is for me."
Source.

HidesFromSun · January 2020

I wonder how this is going to work in PvP. It'll be mighty annoying to have to stop for a snack constantly in Cyrodiil.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

Canon is what we make of it. Everything is told by the people in the series.

When the old lore master left. He left this to the community and I copied and pasted some of it here.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.

Tamriel is a world where all history, past and future, is described in the ever-shifting texts of the mysterious Elder Scrolls, which tell always of what might be rather than of what is.
And what your character does, and says, and believes, becomes part of that world. For you, and whoever else shares the experience, what happened is now part of the lore. The non-player characters are all there, ready to share their stories with you, but it’s you who makes those stories live, because your character has agency and meaningful choices where the NPCs do not. Moreover, what your character does persists for you, and the stories you’ve told and the experiences you’ve shared with your friends live on in your own memories. You just added to the history of Tamriel.

What he is saying all our view points all our beliefs are true. Canon is what we make up it what our characters make up it. Each of us determine it differently. While I see vampires as unliving, some see them as undead. Both would be true because that is what the characters believe and what the players believe. If a vampire or person believes a vampire is a living being they are a living being.
So there is no one canon there is everyone's canon and each person's canon is different and all of them are true. Just like a dragonbreak where all outcomes become reality similar principle.

Reminds me of what Michael Kirkbride once said:
"Tamriel never belonged to Bethesda. It was the other way around.

As for canon, it's really all interactive fiction, and that should mean something to everyone. That said, I appreciate and understand the stamp of "official", but I think it will hurt more that it will help in the long run.

TES should be Open Source. It is for me."
Source.

Yeah when ever we fight over what is canon its wise to understand what they have meant it to be. Its more then just them. That is what makes Elder scrolls so unique. It is what makes its different from many fantasy settings.

ShadowHvo · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Yeah when ever we fight over what is canon its wise to understand what they have meant it to be. Its more then just them. That is what makes Elder scrolls so unique. It is what makes its different from many fantasy settings.

It's a cute fairy tale, and yet lets not delude ourselves enough to actually believe that is the case.

When a player tells you that every dragon, in fact, is Dwarven the Tank Engines, then we know he is factually incorrect, and clearly smitten by Sheogorath's madness.

Elder Scrolls means a lot to many people, and we certainly don't always see eye to eye, this thread is a very testament to it. But that doesn't change that the only canon we have, is what we see and experience ourselves.

That is why this thread is here, and why I'm fighting dearly for the TES Vampire Experience, that I've grown to love and care for in the past many games. Because the news of the rework, from what Leamon explained on stage, is clearly not it.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Yeah when ever we fight over what is canon its wise to understand what they have meant it to be. Its more then just them. That is what makes Elder scrolls so unique. It is what makes its different from many fantasy settings.

It's a cute fairy tale, and yet lets not delude ourselves enough to actually believe that is the case.

When a player tells you that every dragon, in fact, is Dwarven the Tank Engines, then we know he is factually incorrect, and clearly smitten by Sheogorath's madness.

Elder Scrolls means a lot to many people, and we certainly don't always see eye to eye, this thread is a very testament to it. But that doesn't change that the only canon we have, is what we see and experience ourselves.

That is why this thread is here, and why I'm fighting dearly for the TES Vampire Experience, that I've grown to love and care in the past many games. Because the news of the rework, from what Leamon explained on stage, is clearly not it.

Well there is the zenimax/bethesda canon and the player canon. The player canon is however players want it to be. If there is dwarven train engines replacing dragons and all flying around through a mod that is canon to them. That is the players canon. But yes I agree that it does seem like something more of Sheogoraths madness. But does not mean it isn't canon to someones personal experience.

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Yeah when ever we fight over what is canon its wise to understand what they have meant it to be. Its more then just them. That is what makes Elder scrolls so unique. It is what makes its different from many fantasy settings.

It's a cute fairy tale, and yet lets not delude ourselves enough to actually believe that is the case.

When a player tells you that every dragon, in fact, is Dwarven the Tank Engines, then we know he is factually incorrect, and clearly smitten by Sheogorath's madness.

Elder Scrolls means a lot to many people, and we certainly don't always see eye to eye, this thread is a very testament to it. But that doesn't change that the only canon we have, is what we see and experience ourselves.

That is why this thread is here, and why I'm fighting dearly for the TES Vampire Experience, that I've grown to love and care in the past many games. Because the news of the rework, from what Leamon explained on stage, is clearly not it.

Umm you're a roleplayer... That's what you guys do, you create new stories within TES canon. The fact that uesp.net does not acknowledge the existance of your character doesn't mean that your stories are meaningless.
TES is weird and quirky, it's not an oppressive rule system, and pretty much anything can be canon - even space empires. And due to its magical nature, it's much less grounded than our world.

ShadowHvo · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

But does not mean it isn't canon to someones personal experience.

Sure, but neither does it make it canon in the greater scheme of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

If ones personal canon isnt reflected in the games themselves, then they're only that, the personal canon, not the Elder Scrolls' canon.

We, the players, the fans, no matter what side of the coin we sit on in this thread, knows this.

At least I assume that we all agree on that.

Im naturally not saying there is anything wrong with a personal canon. Hell, Im a roleplayer, we all do it to a certain extend, be it via mods or roleplay. But the two should still not be confused.

Banana · January 2020

Having to feed regularly to maintain your strength would make sense for most people.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

But does not mean it isn't canon to someones personal experience.

Sure, but neither does it make it canon in the greater scheme of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

If ones personal canon isnt reflected in the games themselves, then they're only that, the personal canon, not the Elder Scrolls' canon.

We, the players, the fans, no matter what side of the coin we sit on in this thread, knows this.

At least I assume that we all agree on that.

Im naturally not saying there is anything wrong with a personal canon. Hell, Im a roleplayer, we all do it to a certain extend, be it via mods or roleplay. But the two should still not be confused.

Yes of course, but given we can't have actual mods in Eso. Doesn't mean we can't roleplay something differant like a vampire strain or a werebeast condition. Even if those things we might want are not there. I'm a roleplayer myself and well even if they change the mechanics we can survive it. It is after all their game. Though I will not be happy if they make it so stage four appearance is now stage one appearance. I do hope its overhauled completly before seeing that happen. So it looks good for vampirism. I really do hope for vampire fangs as well.

rotaugen454 · January 2020

It’s a video game about a fantasy world. If these changes greatly upset you.... 1st world problems

ShadowHvo · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Though I will not be happy if they make it so stage four appearance is now stage one appearance. I do hope its overhauled completly before seeing that happen. So it looks good for vampirism. I really do hope for vampire fangs as well.

You see, that is the irony, because I absolutely love the visual representation of the Stage 4 Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and I will whine upon this forum to the end of ESO's days if they remove the very visual representation that is essential to the ghastly design of my character.

If they remove that, I see it no different than them just removing any sort of element that is integral to your character, and I wouldn't wish that upon you, nor anyone.

rotaugen454 wrote: »

It’s a video game about a fantasy world. If these changes greatly upset you.... 1st world problems

Yeah, it's a 1st world issue, obviously, it's a video game!

I care this greatly because I love this game and the franchise, and I'm in the process of witnessing the ruination of the very key element to my enjoyment in it.

I think you'll be upset too, if you cared as deeply about it as I.

Varana · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

The stages function, to me, was clearly an answer to Daggerfall and Morrowind's lack of option and meaningful gameplay as a Vampire.

It provided an option to play the civil, masquerading vampire, instead of only allowing you to be the monstrous predator that everyone feared, and the guards attacked on sight.

Your Morrowind vampire didn't lose their perks after feeding, but nor could they walk in the sun, or interact with a large majority of Vvardenfell's populous.

It's not even that, I don't prefer Oblivion's system, I prefer Daggerfall and Morrowind! But I see, and I know that such an experience is impossible within an MMO. That is why, with ESO's justice system, that the stages provides both alternatives.

They could implement everything that is cool, while still sticking to how the vampire progress through their stages, and keep everyone happy, and appease us who dearly care for the true-to-lore experience that the system is capable of providing.

You see, what immediately caused me to question your thread (in a way) was that you did come in blazing with, essentially, "in TES lore, vampires change their appearance through feeding, never gain any powers through feeding but only through not doing vampire stuff, and that's fact, and if ZOS does something else, they're clearly idiots who can't read uesp.net" (slightly paraphrased

).

In the new system, vampirism will also have stages, and it will allow you to walk among mortals. Yes, they will do that (as far as we can tell at the moment) by feeding less - but to be honest, that's a pretty specific hill to die on.

The idea that drinking mortal blood makes you more mortal-like, can be interesting - I completely concur, and I understand that this will be a pretty massive change if that aspect is important to you. But it's not the only one way that TES vampires absolutely have to be and have always been, and it has to be done right.
Current vampirism is not a "true-to-the-lore experience". It is true to the lore in certain aspects that were introduced in the last two games - but only in those aspects. It is not in (many) others.

And again, it has to be done right, and I'm not convinced the Justice system is the panacea for all the challenges in getting it right. The Justice system is capable of providing some flavour - make stealing slightly interesting, provide opportunities for some quests, get a minor point across ("necromancy is illegal"). I don't think it's capable to act as a counterpoint to actual impactful gameplay bonuses in an engaging way.

PrayingSeraph · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Though I will not be happy if they make it so stage four appearance is now stage one appearance. I do hope its overhauled completly before seeing that happen. So it looks good for vampirism. I really do hope for vampire fangs as well.

You see, that is the irony, because I absolutely love the visual representation of the Stage 4 Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and I will whine upon this forum to the end of ESO's days if they remove the very visual representation that is essential to the ghastly design of my character.

If they remove that, I see it no different than them just removing any sort of element that is integral to your character, and I wouldn't wish that upon you, nor anyone.

rotaugen454 wrote: »

It’s a video game about a fantasy world. If these changes greatly upset you.... 1st world problems

Yeah, it's a 1st world issue, obviously, it's a video game!

I care this greatly because I love this game and the franchise, and I'm in the process of witnessing the ruination of the very key element to my enjoyment in it.

I think you'll be upset too, if you cared as deeply about it as I.

My apologies if I missed it but have you provided hard proof from lore that all strains of vampirism become more deadly when they feed less rather than feed more?

barbarian340 · January 2020

I like the change... Vampires feed... Currently no one feeds because there's no incentive to... And real vampire lore has them get weaker the less they feed... The whole thing about vampires not feeding to get stronger made no sense when I first heard it

Iccotak · January 2020

Vampire getting stronger from not feeding makes Zero sense and I have never seen that in TES games.
Sure you get stronger in some respects but you always become extremely vulnerable.

People just want the Vampire passive without having to do anything for it.

This is an MMO RPG role play is part of the game.
Vampirism is wasted if it doesn't change your play-style

ShadowHvo · January 2020

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

My apologies if I missed it but have you provided hard proof from lore that all strains of vampirism become more deadly when they feed less rather than feed more?

There is no such thing, the vampire strains differ from each other. However, that is the case for the three most recent Elder Scrolls titles with Porphyric Hemophilia, Sanguinare Vampiris.

However, we've had Noxiphilic Sanguvoria for 5 years now, and that has worked just like that. You get more strengths and weaknesses the more starved you become. But that is about to be retcon'd.

barbarian340 wrote: »

I like the change... Vampires feed... Currently no one feeds because there's no incentive to... And real vampire lore has them get weaker the less they feed... The whole thing about vampires not feeding to get stronger made no sense when I first heard it

Well, thats how it has worked in the Elder Scrolls since Oblivion.

But you're right, nobody feeds because there is no need to, which is a big problem that they haven't attempted to fix for the last five years.

I however, believe that there isn't a need to bastardize the mechanical function of the vampire stages, in order to improve vampirism as of whole. But they're.

Varana wrote: »

In the new system, vampirism will also have stages, and it will allow you to walk among mortals. Yes, they will do that (as far as we can tell at the moment) by feeding less - but to be honest, that's a pretty specific hill to die on.

The idea that drinking mortal blood makes you more mortal-like, can be interesting - I completely concur, and I understand that this will be a pretty massive change if that aspect is important to you. But it's not the only one way that TES vampires absolutely have to be and have always been, and it has to be done right.
Current vampirism is not a "true-to-the-lore experience". It is true to the lore in certain aspects that were introduced in the last two games - but only in those aspects. It is not in (many) others.

And again, it has to be done right, and I'm not convinced the Justice system is the panacea for all the challenges in getting it right. The Justice system is capable of providing some flavour - make stealing slightly interesting, provide opportunities for some quests, get a minor point across ("necromancy is illegal"). I don't think it's capable to act as a counterpoint to actual impactful gameplay bonuses in an engaging way.

I agree, it has to be done right. However, I don't believe a bastardization of how the stages function in principle is the right way to improve on it. In particular when the suggested improvements sound like a cardboard copy of most modern vampire fiction. That to me, really deceases the value of the unique way of living that The Elder Scrolls has represented for the vampires throughout Oblivion and Skyrim, with their duality between the stages, their humanity vs the monstrous.

It's a core aspect that many upon this forum do not want, because they're mainly interested in being powerful and handsome/beautiful, with every strength of vampirism, with none of the weaknesses to follow. That is something that I personally dread, because to me, it is boring. It turns vampires mundane, boring and... ough, normal.

Let me also say however, that I do agree that my initial OP, and several responses from yesterday in particular, could've been written with quite a bit more grace and tact. I'm not beyond fault, for I was angered when I watched the livestream presentation yesterday, and immediately took to the forums in my attempt at having my voice heard, as a fan who's really taken to the Elder Scrolls setting because of their interpretation of Vampirism.

bearbelly · January 2020

I like the changes.

I don't like how Vampirism currently works in ESO, and I do not remember it functioning in Skyrim the way it does in ESO, so I don't understand the claim that the planned changes are "ruining" vampirism and I don't agree with that characterization at all.
(admittedly, I haven't played Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, or Oblivion, yet, so I don't know how vampirism was portrayed, pre-Skyrim. I just know that Skyrim vampirism was different than it is in ESO.)

I'm a big fan of Lamae Bal and I wish we could have more interaction with her, but practically, the mechanics of vampirism in ESO as they are now, just do not make sense to me, and feel very lackluster. My most advanced vampire (I have two) is sitting at character level 30, vampire rank 6, because leveling the vampire skill line is tedious as hell (due to how long it takes to attain each level), and boring.
I'm attached to all of my characters, and I'd really love to start playing my primary vampire again, and I'm hoping the coming changes make it more interesting to do so.

edited for typo

Nerouyn · January 2020

TigressCreed wrote: »

Just change the feeding animation and I’ll be happy

I think they're reworking more than just the animation, but re the animation, I think he said the current version is much more visceral - like kinda ripping out the opponent's throat.

JumpmanLane · January 2020

As long as vamps catch on fire good still, I don’t care WHAT they do to vamps lol

Ysbriel · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of replies, I fear I had to slumber between now, and then. But here we go, I'm back out of the coffin ready to dance.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This thread is against changes in existing lore.
But it's important to remember that without changing and sometimes retconning stuff TES would just be a mediocre D&D knockoff and would likely be forgotten by now.
We don't even know how the changes will work, we have nothing concrete. And yet people are already bashing them. It's insane. I am very critical of ZOS, too, but let's actually wait for pts changes before claiming that vampires are ruined forever? It's pretty clear that the story of the new chapter will be focused on vampires, perhaps there will be some sort of lore explanation.

The suggested changes makes it all the more of a mediocre knockoff of modern vampire fiction, that is why that someone like I, who're a big fan of vampires in TES. (In fact, ironically enough, its what drew me to the series to begin with!) are very fearful for these new changes, for as they were described by Leamon on stage, they're literally turning vampirism completely on its head in favor of the modernized appeal that follows popular teenage vampire flicks.

Whenever there is a lore explanation or not, they're directly retconing Noxiphilic Sanguvioria into what sounds like a Volkihar ripoff. That to me, is a shame.

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

We can be sure it wasn't that guy in the crowd that was yelling "YEAAAHH!" everytime they mentioned a feature. He was embarrassing.

Oh you can be sure that I would've boo'ed them so hard that the bouncer would've had to throw me out.

Ysbriel wrote: »

Starving Vampire weakness in lore....

That is where the dynamic between well-fed and starvation comes into play, a rather important and key aspect that you've conveniently chosen to ignore.

The vampire should never starve themselves completely, as is currently preferred in ESO right now, they should do precisely as in Oblivion and pre-dawnguard Skyrim, wherein feeding was meaningful to your interaction with the world.

I'm not going to list any lore books, because you've literally copied the entire selection in your own reply. But, you claim that the Cyrodiilic Vampyrum Order is one of the strongest as a well-fed strain, and yet we know that to be absolute false in terms of power, but truth in terms of masquerading themselves within mortal society. We see, feel and use that ourselves throughout oblivion.

That is the core aspect that ESO have always lacked, and the core aspect that they should've improved on 4 years ago when the Justice system was introduced, but they didn't, and now they're choosing to bastardize the mechanic behind vampirism in favor of a rule of cool that's a blatant ripoff of most modern vampire fiction.

Which leads me to this...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

^

It has been mentioned multiple times already, yet everyone conveniently ignores that ESO's current system was flawed, and needed improvements, rather than a complete rework. @Ratzkifal post here sums it up perfectly.

I didn't choose to ignore anything, the list of books there is provided because i'm just trying to figure out where in the LORE did you read or which in game event did you see in any TES games in a scroll, book, dialogue or in game event that points out that they are to starve to become more powerful or remain powerful instead the other way around. The only example of being strong pointed out is in physical strength as i pointed out before that even in previous game they represent it with unarmed combat boost and other than that the vampire simply becomes frail. There is no amount of argument or counter argument when saying that its LORE if you cant point out where in the LORE and which example has been presented in a previous game for us to experience the LORE.

barney2525 · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

This goes directly against established Elder Scrolls canon, how could Leamon sign onto this?

A vampire becomes more dangerous the less they feed, their hunger increasing, their beastial urges takes over, making them more powerful, unpredictable and dangerous. Similarily, the more they feed, the lesser their monstrous urges become, and thus the more human and life-like they appear.

Why are you ruining Elder Scrolls vampire lore by turning it completely on its head?

Also, thank you for forever ruining the vampire lord form. A legendary, mystical creature capable of ultimate destruction, will now hit no harder than a wet bloody noodle.

As a elder scrolls lore fan, in particular in regards to vampires... This is the worst possible chapter imaginable, and that's depressing.

I think you are over reacting here. Blood is the food/fuel for the vampire. They become more dangerous when they go a long time without feeding because they are starving for blood. This is a Mental issue, not a physical one. They do not get stronger when low on blood, they get weaker. The hunger simply drives them a tad insane until the vampire feeds. It is this insanity that drives the vicious and uncontrolled attack, but the vampire is physically weaker than when they are fully sated.

I think you are confusing violence with strength. Just because they are more violent does not mean they are physically stronger.

IMHO

xXMeowMeowXx · January 2020

I can understand the OP’s worries to a degree. Honestly, I just think it is best to actually see the changes to the vamps on PTS first before getting upset.

I wonder, oh I wonder, if they will make them overloaded like the fluffy puppers were for several patches. That would be beautifully funny.

darthgummibear_ESO · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

There is no such thing, the vampire strains differ from each other. However, that is the case for the three most recent Elder Scrolls titles

So you want to ignore the lore of the entirety of the rest of the elder scrolls universe just because the last couple games leaned in a certain direction.

FierceSam · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

This goes directly against established Elder Scrolls canon, how could Leamon sign onto this?

A vampire becomes more dangerous the less they feed, their hunger increasing, their beastial urges takes over, making them more powerful, unpredictable and dangerous. Similarily, the more they feed, the lesser their monstrous urges become, and thus the more human and life-like they appear.

Why are you ruining Elder Scrolls vampire lore by turning it completely on its head?

Also, thank you for forever ruining the vampire lord form. A legendary, mystical creature capable of ultimate destruction, will now hit no harder than a wet bloody noodle.

As a elder scrolls lore fan, in particular in regards to vampires... This is the worst possible chapter imaginable, and that's depressing.

I’m kind of torn here.

On the one hand I want ESO to incorporate Elder Scolls law. Having played it for years though I had no idea that (outside the player class) vampires became more powerful the less they fed. It makes a kind of sense, but if that’s how it works, there’s no drive then for them to feed...

On the other hand, the player vampire class now is a joke. Players become vampires for the passives, never feed, because why would you when the maximum benefit is to do no actually vamping, and never incorporate any elements of vampirism into their gameplay (role play enthusiasts aside).

As long as it makes no sense for players to feed (and it currently doesn’t), the vampire skill line is rubbish. If, instead, your vampire has to feed once a week/month to activate the passives then that will at least make vampire an active choice and those passives will be ‘earned’. It will be interesting to see how this works as there are probably way more vampires than active thieves, so the NPC carnage could be considerable.

And if ZOS are going down this route, I hope it won’t be like the werewolf, where a quick gobble of a dead enemy works instead of having to bleed an innocent NPC.

Hotdog_23 · January 2020

When I read some getting very upset about “Lore” as to what should be and not be, I think of our previous Loremaster Lawrence Schick wrote here

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

“Tamriel is an unusual fantasy world setting in that it was created over time by many different contributors rather than by one single vision. At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.”

The bold is my addition not in original post.

Avoranti · January 2020

This was a long and interesting read about vampires in ESO. I may have overlooked this or perhaps it was never mentioned but have none of you ever been to Rivenspire? Did none of you ever meet Gwendis? Upon entering Ravenwatch Castle for the first time, you find Gwendis feeding and Verandis demanding she’s had enough and I quote from Gwendis “but we need to feed to get stronger”.

So this idea that this change goes against lore has had its ship sail a long time ago. Gwendis clearly states that they need to feed to get stronger. So, with that I welcome the change. The current state of the vampire skill line is nearly useless aside for the reason given, the passive. Now we will have even more of a reason to play as a vampire.

O_LYKOS · January 2020

Why would they be stronger if they don't feed? That doesnt make sense.

Thannazzar · January 2020

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

If this goes against lore (which it doesn't, not entirely) then I am willing to accept it. Lore exists to serve the game and with this, being a vampire will finally, FINALLY mean more than just "ooh magicka passive". Excellent change, cannot wait.

Yes it does.

Vampires get stronger the less they feed, that is how it has always been. This turns it around.

The problem with the current iteration of the vampire is that there are no downsides to the strengths. I don't see how this changes anything, but ruining established lore.

Historically your correct however before eso we have not had the opportunity to play or experience a Vampire directly created by lamae bal, so bets are off as to how the scion ritual differs from lore. ESO PC vamps are already daywalkers, so as long as they introduce a lore explanation by way of ritual or bloodline vision or something Im cool with it.

Personally Im hoping that more powerful when well fed doesnt mean my cool looking malevolent vamp turns into a goth with pinkeye at stage 4!

Anyron · January 2020

For gameplay its better to get stronger the more you feed.. I agree its against tes lore but as it is now you are just stage 4 and have all advantages with no effort... And since there isnt any sun damage or npc hostility while you are at stage 4 normal vampire lore rules doesnt matter anyway

FierceSam · January 2020

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Why would they be stronger if they don't feed? That doesnt make sense.

More crucially, why would they feed if it only makes them weaker?

Hence why almost no vampire players (outside full on role play ones) bother to feed at all.