Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

TigressCreed

Just change the feeding animation and I’ll be happy

Ratzkifal

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

No, by teen flicks and common and modern vampire fiction, I mean the usual and standard tropes thats popular in today's medium, which includes vampires feeding to grow stronger while also maintaining full aspect of their humanity, and/or keeping themselves handsome/beautiful/pretty.

It's a system wherein there are literally no weaknesses to feeding, but only positives, wherein TES Skyrim and Oblivion, with their stages, have strengths and weaknesses to both aspects of the extreme spectrum, a duality that balances the vampire.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict each other, since Zenimax can and will change lore, but it is by all intent and purpose a retcon of the Noxiphilic Sanguvoria if the suggested changes makes it to live. It is in my eyes, a woefully unnecessary retcon, that doesn't actually need to happen.

They can keep all the cool new powers, and the cool new way of feeding, while still sticking to the tried and true formula of TES Vampirism in regards to your reason and need to feed. It gives us, the players, a reason to move between the stages, rather than being a static "Lets just remain at the highest / lowest stage for all the passive benefits".

It should be dynamic as it was in TES Oblivion and Pre-Dawnguard Skyrim, but this suggestion doesn't make it that.

I don't for one second disregarding that this could just be a unique new bloodline that functions differently, but we know it isn't, because it is Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and not something new.

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I think what is meant here is less the romance vampire variant who sparkles but more the edgy vampire teenager who lived for thousands of years and drank the blood of a trillion humans and has become such a "badass" because of it. You know, the wish-fullfilment powerfantasy self-insert type with names like "Nightstalker Evercrimson".

The way TES's system worked it's more like an actual sickness with blood being medicine (but not a cure). In these teen-vampire stories it's always about the guy being like "no, I mustn't bite you! I must stay strong... because I am cursed..." even though there is literally no drawbacks to being a vampire in these types of fiction. In TES if Edward ever said that, he would probably kill Bella after a week because he doesn't recognize her anymore. Let's be real, even when they don't sparkle, living at night is not too terrible, so that's not a real drawback. In the TES setting even "Nightstalker Evercrimson" still has problems in his every day life as a vampire who feasted on trillions because that's no guarantee for success.

So if you want to write a fanfiction about a vampire in the elder scrolls you are forced to make your character believable and keep it all at a reasonable level simply because the setting demands it. Otherwise you are not writing about a TES vampire at all.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I've never disagreed that the current ESO iteration of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is lacking, for I agree whole heartily that it should've been improved long ago. The current iteration gives the vampire at stage 4 several strengths, without the weaknesses. Unless if you count the monstrous visuals, ofc.

Vampirism should've been integrated with the Justice System from the very beginning, to keep the need and desire to feed so that, as it is true to TES Vampirism, can linger onto their humanity and hide amongst the populous. It would give every single player a definite need to continuously feed if they wish to interact with the game and its world.

A simple scroll throughout this chat, and generally speaking ESO's forum, will easily showcase the masses of individuals whom wants every strength Vampirism has to offer, without a single drawback, be it in form of ghastly visuals (which is a good drawback for a famished creature of the night, and thus the difficulties in society it should bring along with the justice system) or merely the legendary powers of the Volkihar's Vampire Lord Form.

The new system, at least from how I heard it during the livestream, appears to directly cater to that majority - a majority who doesn't want to be a vampire from the Elder Scrolls, but a vampire from popular, modern fiction.

I'll state once again, that I would never have minded that this been a solely new bloodline, since that indeed would make complete sense. But as it stands, its a retcon, not only of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, yet the logical and gradual descend of the vampires monstrous nature with the stages.

My character is an ghastly famished vampire, yet following this update, he'll be a pretty boi famished vampire, and I despise that change, because there is no logical reason for vampires keeping their shrine and perfect looks through starvation.

Vampires in TES hasn't really fueled their magical powers by drinking blood, yet ensured the longevity of their humanity, their vessels ability to mask themselves amongst civil society. This upcoming change completely turns that entire concept on its head, and frankly ruins it.

Well if scary appearance of the current iteration of vampires counts as a drawback, then having to transform to a vampire lord would be an even bigger disadvantage? Because it looks significantly scarier than a regular stage 4 vampire, and it will also aggro invincible guards.
I'm also not sure if the current appearance of vampires is a hill to die on. I mean, I understand the creepy aesthetic, but they don't even have fangs and many vamp characters are pink for some reason. Imo it would be better if they'd just update the skins to make them more grey and corpse-like (like in that new trailer).
And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

How you level up the vampire lord form, not the vampire, their passives and abilities.

But your last point also just iterates on the very core issue which I described in my reply to your own. It wasn't finished, it was flawed because of its lack of integration with the Justice System, thus rendering any reason to feed null.

Ratzkifal

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I've never disagreed that the current ESO iteration of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is lacking, for I agree whole heartily that it should've been improved long ago. The current iteration gives the vampire at stage 4 several strengths, without the weaknesses. Unless if you count the monstrous visuals, ofc.

Vampirism should've been integrated with the Justice System from the very beginning, to keep the need and desire to feed so that, as it is true to TES Vampirism, can linger onto their humanity and hide amongst the populous. It would give every single player a definite need to continuously feed if they wish to interact with the game and its world.

A simple scroll throughout this chat, and generally speaking ESO's forum, will easily showcase the masses of individuals whom wants every strength Vampirism has to offer, without a single drawback, be it in form of ghastly visuals (which is a good drawback for a famished creature of the night, and thus the difficulties in society it should bring along with the justice system) or merely the legendary powers of the Volkihar's Vampire Lord Form.

The new system, at least from how I heard it during the livestream, appears to directly cater to that majority - a majority who doesn't want to be a vampire from the Elder Scrolls, but a vampire from popular, modern fiction.

I'll state once again, that I would never have minded that this been a solely new bloodline, since that indeed would make complete sense. But as it stands, its a retcon, not only of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, yet the logical and gradual descend of the vampires monstrous nature with the stages.

My character is an ghastly famished vampire, yet following this update, he'll be a pretty boi famished vampire, and I despise that change, because there is no logical reason for vampires keeping their shrine and perfect looks through starvation.

Vampires in TES hasn't really fueled their magical powers by drinking blood, yet ensured the longevity of their humanity, their vessels ability to mask themselves amongst civil society. This upcoming change completely turns that entire concept on its head, and frankly ruins it.

Well if scary appearance of the current iteration of vampires counts as a drawback, then having to transform to a vampire lord would be an even bigger disadvantage? Because it looks significantly scarier than a regular stage 4 vampire, and it will also aggro invincible guards.
I'm also not sure if the current appearance of vampires is a hill to die on. I mean, I understand the creepy aesthetic, but they don't even have fangs and many vamp characters are pink for some reason. Imo it would be better if they'd just update the skins to make them more grey and corpse-like (like in that new trailer).
And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

Yes, that's why we are in favor of vampire changes, but not the way they appear to have been made with the whole reversal. And even the Vampire lord in the Dawnguard is at its strongest when starved, not when well-fed, although you are right that they unlock new skills by feeding, just how a vampire line could be leveled by feeding in ESO.
It's my hope that is actually what Leamon meant when he said "become more powerful when feeding", but he also said too many things along the lines of "made it how it should be" and "reversed", which makes the people who liked the way it used to be worry.

Noxavian

Ratzkifal wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I've never disagreed that the current ESO iteration of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is lacking, for I agree whole heartily that it should've been improved long ago. The current iteration gives the vampire at stage 4 several strengths, without the weaknesses. Unless if you count the monstrous visuals, ofc.

Vampirism should've been integrated with the Justice System from the very beginning, to keep the need and desire to feed so that, as it is true to TES Vampirism, can linger onto their humanity and hide amongst the populous. It would give every single player a definite need to continuously feed if they wish to interact with the game and its world.

A simple scroll throughout this chat, and generally speaking ESO's forum, will easily showcase the masses of individuals whom wants every strength Vampirism has to offer, without a single drawback, be it in form of ghastly visuals (which is a good drawback for a famished creature of the night, and thus the difficulties in society it should bring along with the justice system) or merely the legendary powers of the Volkihar's Vampire Lord Form.

The new system, at least from how I heard it during the livestream, appears to directly cater to that majority - a majority who doesn't want to be a vampire from the Elder Scrolls, but a vampire from popular, modern fiction.

I'll state once again, that I would never have minded that this been a solely new bloodline, since that indeed would make complete sense. But as it stands, its a retcon, not only of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, yet the logical and gradual descend of the vampires monstrous nature with the stages.

My character is an ghastly famished vampire, yet following this update, he'll be a pretty boi famished vampire, and I despise that change, because there is no logical reason for vampires keeping their shrine and perfect looks through starvation.

Vampires in TES hasn't really fueled their magical powers by drinking blood, yet ensured the longevity of their humanity, their vessels ability to mask themselves amongst civil society. This upcoming change completely turns that entire concept on its head, and frankly ruins it.

Well if scary appearance of the current iteration of vampires counts as a drawback, then having to transform to a vampire lord would be an even bigger disadvantage? Because it looks significantly scarier than a regular stage 4 vampire, and it will also aggro invincible guards.
I'm also not sure if the current appearance of vampires is a hill to die on. I mean, I understand the creepy aesthetic, but they don't even have fangs and many vamp characters are pink for some reason. Imo it would be better if they'd just update the skins to make them more grey and corpse-like (like in that new trailer).
And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

Yes, that's why we are in favor of vampire changes, but not the way they appear to have been made with the whole reversal. And even the Vampire lord in the Dawnguard is at its strongest when starved, not when well-fed, although you are right that they unlock new skills by feeding, just how a vampire line could be leveled by feeding in ESO.
It's my hope that is actually what Leamon meant when he said "become more powerful when feeding", but he also said too many things along the lines of "made it how it should be" and "reversed", which makes the people who liked the way it used to be worry.

You and literally less than 10 people like how it used to be. The majority seems to like the change. They aren't going to change a relatively small thing to appease you and the 4 other people that are bothered by it

LadyNalcarya

Ratzkifal wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

No, by teen flicks and common and modern vampire fiction, I mean the usual and standard tropes thats popular in today's medium, which includes vampires feeding to grow stronger while also maintaining full aspect of their humanity, and/or keeping themselves handsome/beautiful/pretty.

It's a system wherein there are literally no weaknesses to feeding, but only positives, wherein TES Skyrim and Oblivion, with their stages, have strengths and weaknesses to both aspects of the extreme spectrum, a duality that balances the vampire.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict each other, since Zenimax can and will change lore, but it is by all intent and purpose a retcon of the Noxiphilic Sanguvoria if the suggested changes makes it to live. It is in my eyes, a woefully unnecessary retcon, that doesn't actually need to happen.

They can keep all the cool new powers, and the cool new way of feeding, while still sticking to the tried and true formula of TES Vampirism in regards to your reason and need to feed. It gives us, the players, a reason to move between the stages, rather than being a static "Lets just remain at the highest / lowest stage for all the passive benefits".

It should be dynamic as it was in TES Oblivion and Pre-Dawnguard Skyrim, but this suggestion doesn't make it that.

I don't for one second disregarding that this could just be a unique new bloodline that functions differently, but we know it isn't, because it is Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and not something new.

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I think what is meant here is less the romance vampire variant who sparkles but more the edgy vampire teenager who lived for thousands of years and drank the blood of a trillion humans and has become such a "badass" because of it. You know, the wish-fullfilment powerfantasy self-insert type with names like "Nightstalker Evercrimson".

The way TES's system worked it's more like an actual sickness with blood being medicine (but not a cure). In these teen-vampire stories it's always about the guy being like "no, I mustn't bite you! I must stay strong... because I am cursed..." even though there is literally no drawbacks to being a vampire in these types of fiction. In TES if Edward ever said that, he would probably kill Bella after a week because he doesn't recognize her anymore. Let's be real, even when they don't sparkle, living at night is not too terrible, so that's not a real drawback. In the TES setting even "Nightstalker Evercrimson" still has problems in his every day life as a vampire who feasted on trillions because that's no guarantee for success.

So if you want to write a fanfiction about a vampire in the elder scrolls you are forced to make your character believable and keep it all at a reasonable level simply because the setting demands it. Otherwise you are not writing about a TES vampire at all.

Yeah, of course.
But none of that really applies to the new chapter announcement. They said that the tone of the chapter will be similar to Rivenspire questline, which is often considered to be one of the best ESO zones in terms of story.
No offense, but I think that you and OP are just reading too much into this. I'd suggest to just wait and see what happens, and if it really is edgelord bs, I'd be the first to agree with you. But until then I think it's unreasonable to bash them for trying to fix stuff. We don't have anything concrete.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

How you level up the vampire lord form, not the vampire, their passives and abilities.

But your last point also just iterates on the very core issue which I described in my reply to your own. It wasn't finished, it was flawed because of its lack of integration with the Justice System, thus rendering any reason to feed null.

Vampire lord form is a manifestation of vampire powers. Lore-wise there's no passives, they just master their abilities.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

You and literally less than 10 people like how it used to be. The majority seems to like the change. They aren't going to change a relatively small thing to appease you and the 4 other people that are bothered by it

You're clearly not a roleplayer, nor interact with them. There's certainly quite far more than you believe there to be.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

You and literally less than 10 people like how it used to be. The majority seems to like the change. They aren't going to change a relatively small thing to appease you and the 4 other people that are bothered by it

You're clearly not a roleplayer, nor interact with them. There's certainly quite far more than you believe there to be.

The beauty of rp is that you're not limited by game mechanics. I personally don't like playing my chars as Dovahkhiins so I just ignore the quest even thought main character is supposed to do it.
You can just use bloody maras and rp your char as a starving vampire.

DarknDarker

honestly, next thing you know they'll be turing orcs into pigmen, after all, isnt that how orc are depicted in modern media?
thats kinda what they're doing to the vampires, you want that? if you do, you clearly dont care about the lore at all

Ratzkifal

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

No, by teen flicks and common and modern vampire fiction, I mean the usual and standard tropes thats popular in today's medium, which includes vampires feeding to grow stronger while also maintaining full aspect of their humanity, and/or keeping themselves handsome/beautiful/pretty.

It's a system wherein there are literally no weaknesses to feeding, but only positives, wherein TES Skyrim and Oblivion, with their stages, have strengths and weaknesses to both aspects of the extreme spectrum, a duality that balances the vampire.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict each other, since Zenimax can and will change lore, but it is by all intent and purpose a retcon of the Noxiphilic Sanguvoria if the suggested changes makes it to live. It is in my eyes, a woefully unnecessary retcon, that doesn't actually need to happen.

They can keep all the cool new powers, and the cool new way of feeding, while still sticking to the tried and true formula of TES Vampirism in regards to your reason and need to feed. It gives us, the players, a reason to move between the stages, rather than being a static "Lets just remain at the highest / lowest stage for all the passive benefits".

It should be dynamic as it was in TES Oblivion and Pre-Dawnguard Skyrim, but this suggestion doesn't make it that.

I don't for one second disregarding that this could just be a unique new bloodline that functions differently, but we know it isn't, because it is Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and not something new.

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I think what is meant here is less the romance vampire variant who sparkles but more the edgy vampire teenager who lived for thousands of years and drank the blood of a trillion humans and has become such a "badass" because of it. You know, the wish-fullfilment powerfantasy self-insert type with names like "Nightstalker Evercrimson".

The way TES's system worked it's more like an actual sickness with blood being medicine (but not a cure). In these teen-vampire stories it's always about the guy being like "no, I mustn't bite you! I must stay strong... because I am cursed..." even though there is literally no drawbacks to being a vampire in these types of fiction. In TES if Edward ever said that, he would probably kill Bella after a week because he doesn't recognize her anymore. Let's be real, even when they don't sparkle, living at night is not too terrible, so that's not a real drawback. In the TES setting even "Nightstalker Evercrimson" still has problems in his every day life as a vampire who feasted on trillions because that's no guarantee for success.

So if you want to write a fanfiction about a vampire in the elder scrolls you are forced to make your character believable and keep it all at a reasonable level simply because the setting demands it. Otherwise you are not writing about a TES vampire at all.

Yeah, of course.
But none of that really applies to the new chapter announcement. They said that the tone of the chapter will be similar to Rivenspire questline, which is often considered to be one of the best ESO zones in terms of story.
No offense, but I think that you and OP are just reading too much into this. I'd suggest to just wait and see what happens, and if it really is edgelord bs, I'd be the first to agree with you. But until then I think it's unreasonable to bash them for trying to fix stuff. We don't have anything concrete.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

And I'm sorry, but TES vampires can get powers by drinking blood. That's how you level up vampire lord in Skyrim.

P.S. As for "all power, no disadvantages"... It actually applies to vampirism in the current patch. Fire debuff is not that big of a deal and you can always remove it by drinking bloody maras, and the recovery buff is quite useful. Not to mention that you can just wear a skin to hide vampirism.

How you level up the vampire lord form, not the vampire, their passives and abilities.

But your last point also just iterates on the very core issue which I described in my reply to your own. It wasn't finished, it was flawed because of its lack of integration with the Justice System, thus rendering any reason to feed null.

Vampire lord form is a manifestation of vampire powers. Lore-wise there's no passives, they just master their abilities.

I agree that we should wait with the bashing until PTS hits.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The beauty of rp is that you're not limited by game mechanics. I personally don't like playing my chars as Dovahkhiins so I just ignore the quest even thought main character is supposed to do it.
You can just use bloody maras and rp your char as a starving vampire.

Sure, one can play pretend, but that still takes away the gameplay which I love and treasure, even if it is halfbaked and flawed, it's getting demolished in favor of a new system that is not reminiscent of past incarnations, nor remotely as interesting.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Vampire lord form is a manifestation of vampire powers. Lore-wise there's no passives, they just master their abilities.

It only ever changed the powers, and passives while in vampire lord form, so you're not entirely correct. Lorewise, there most certainly are passives, both by gameplay and through characters descriptions of new boons that arrived with their vampiric existences, such as enhanced strength, agility, weakness to fire n' more.

We've never once seen them visualized, or told to us as some form of Ability or Spellwork that must be cast before usage, or akin to Disciplines from the VTM series. They're passive powers/benefits/boons/curses, clearly.

EDIT: I of course speak solely of the passive strengths and weaknesses, and not the obvious spells and powers which indeed, are used on cast.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They are fixing the feeding so its not a funnel attack. We are going to be able to feed more like vampires in the VTM. Jumping on people and feeding that way. That is what they are doing. Also the feeding will be more like the other titles. They are completly overhauling vampirism and I would hate to see this ruined because people can't understand what vampires are. Or how to learn how to vampire.

@Thevampirenight,

I have a honest question for you.

Do you even remotely understand what we, as fans of TES vampirism, are angry about? Because your post seems to reflect that you do not.

We don't DISLIKE the new AND FAR BETTER WAY OF FEEDING. It should be visceral, cool and monstrous, sinking our teeth into their flesh for their delicious, gushing blood to usher into our famished maw.

I've not seen a single complaint against that.

The literal only thing that we're complaining about, is the fact that they're turning VAMPIRISM and HOW IT WORKS IN STAGES completely on its head in favor of a blatant knockoff of popular, modern vampire fiction, rather than being the unique dynamic that TES vampirism represented.

The feeding stages isn't changing how unique it is. I do understand, but as many people that are angry about this there are many more that think its the worst thing about the vampires and I can imagine many many people modded vampires to work the otherway around instead of the way it was because of that. I'm in the middle but I have to side with the later. The vampire is unliving. Tes vampires are not reanimated corpses that is what I do like about the vampire and if they were to suddenly change that .Well that would be ruining the lore on them. They have done a lot to distance them from typical d&d. They should not have even been made undead in SKyrim or Eso or have the key modifier.

That was stupid in my opinion. That was a mistake that Bethesda made and if I had my way they wouldn't even be effected by the fighters guild bonus damage to undead. But maybe effected more by the dawnguard crossbow ability. The undeath passive would be changed to Unliving fortitude. I would have kept vampires where they had a higher fire weakness then the nerfed version of it we have in game now with stage four being 50% Fire weakness. I would have made it so stage one 5 percent fire weakness. stage 2 15 percent fire weakness, stage three 25 percent fire weakness and stage four 50% fire weakness why? So its less desirable and more rarer and a choice that players would have to make for themselves is it worth it or not?

They would be just like Oblivion and Skyrim vampires in terms of how their fire weakness is but more like the new system where they have to be more fed to not only be more powerful but also to be more human while decreased cost for vampiric abilties for being in a higher state of hunger and maybe keep the dark stalker passive at stage four but unliving fortitude at stage one and two. Maybe some abilties stronger when hungrier. So a mix of both and not just one or the other. They would be Immune to Turn undead and most anti undead abilties but vunerable to silver but vunerable because they have resistance to normal damage and not because they are undead. They would have a very huge fire weakness to compensate the lack of sunfire damage.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The beauty of rp is that you're not limited by game mechanics. I personally don't like playing my chars as Dovahkhiins so I just ignore the quest even thought main character is supposed to do it.
You can just use bloody maras and rp your char as a starving vampire.

Sure, one can play pretend, but that still takes away the gameplay which I love and treasure, even if it is halfbaked and flawed, it's getting demolished in favor of a new system that is not reminiscent of past incarnations, nor remotely as interesting.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Vampire lord form is a manifestation of vampire powers. Lore-wise there's no passives, they just master their abilities.

It only ever changed the powers, and passives while in vampire lord form, so you're not entirely correct. Lorewise, there most certainly are passives, both by gameplay and through characters descriptions of new bones that arrived with their vampiric existences, such as enhanced strength, agility, weakness to fire n' more.

We've never once seen them visualized, or told to us as some form of Ability or Spellwork that must be cast before usage, or akin to Disciplines from the VTM series. They're passive powers/benefits/boons/curses, clearly.

I said this already, but you don't know how interesting it will be. I don't think that any of us can see the future, and at this point we're just talking about pure speculations.
I mean, I understand that you have a headcanon for your character. But changes in lore are inevitable, all major games in the series has done it, and a lot of these changes actually improved the series.

Also, vampire lord form is not a separate entity, it's your power. And it increases as you feed on mortals. That's it.

Noxavian

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They are fixing the feeding so its not a funnel attack. We are going to be able to feed more like vampires in the VTM. Jumping on people and feeding that way. That is what they are doing. Also the feeding will be more like the other titles. They are completly overhauling vampirism and I would hate to see this ruined because people can't understand what vampires are. Or how to learn how to vampire.

@Thevampirenight,

I have a honest question for you.

Do you even remotely understand what we, as fans of TES vampirism, are angry about? Because your post seems to reflect that you do not.

We don't DISLIKE the new AND FAR BETTER WAY OF FEEDING. It should be visceral, cool and monstrous, sinking our teeth into their flesh for their delicious, gushing blood to usher into our famished maw.

I've not seen a single complaint against that.

The literal only thing that we're complaining about, is the fact that they're turning VAMPIRISM and HOW IT WORKS IN STAGES completely on its head in favor of a blatant knockoff of popular, modern vampire fiction, rather than being the unique dynamic that TES vampirism represented.

The feeding stages isn't changing how unique it is. I do understand, but as many people that are angry about this there are many more that think its the worst thing about the vampires and I can imagine many many people modded vampires to work the otherway around instead of the way it was because of that. I'm in the middle but I have to side with the later. The vampire is unliving. Tes vampires are not reanimated corpses that is what I do like about the vampire and if they were to suddenly change that .Well that would be ruining the lore on them. They have done a lot to distance them from typical d&d. They should not have even been made undead in SKyrim or Eso or have the key modifier.

That was stupid in my opinion. That was a mistake that Bethesda made and if I had my way they wouldn't even be effected by the fighters guild bonus damage to undead. But maybe effected more by the dawnguard crossbow ability. The undeath passive would be changed to Unliving fortitude. I would have kept vampires where they had a higher fire weakness then the nerfed version of it we have in game now with stage four being 50% Fire weakness. I would have made it so stage one 5 percent fire weakness. stage 2 15 percent fire weakness, stage three 25 percent fire weakness and stage four 50% fire weakness why? So its less desirable and more rarer and a choice that players would have to make for themselves is it worth it or not?

They would be just like Oblivion and Skyrim vampires in terms of how their fire weakness is but more like the new system where they have to be more fed to not only be more powerful but also to be more human while decreased cost for vampiric abilties for being in a higher state of hunger and maybe keep the dark stalker passive at stage four but unliving fortitude at stage one and two. Maybe some abilties stronger when hungrier. So a mix of both and not just one or the other. They would be Immune to Turn undead and most anti undead abilties but vunerable to silver but vunerable because they have resistance to normal damage and not because they are undead. They would have a very huge fire weakness to compensate the lack of sunfire damage.

This guy ^ gets it.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

This guy ^ gets it.

Yeah, you prefer your fanon headcanon over the actual canon of the Elder Scrolls Universe, we get it.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I said this already, but you don't know how interesting it will be. I don't think that any of us can see the future, and at this point we're just talking about pure speculations.
I mean, I understand that you have a headcanon for your character. But changes in lore are inevitable, all major games in the series has done it, and a lot of these changes actually improved the series.

Also, vampire lord form is not a separate entity, it's your power. And it increases as you feed on mortals. That's it.

I don't, you're very much correct. But I fear the absolute worst when they reveal a rework, that threaten the canon that I hold dearly beloved.

When we add in the injustice given to the Bosmer and the Argonian fans, I don't really believe that ZOS has the best of track records.

The Vampire Lord form is the power, one power, which increases as you feed. Feeding doesn't increases the passive strengths of the vampire, in fact, it only retracts several of its abilities outside of Vampire Lord Form.

Feeding in the Vampire Lord Form only increases the powers and passives of the Vampire Lord Form, and that is how it functioned in Skyrim, by giving the player Perk Points to allocate as they saw it fit. However, those points ONLY benefited the vampire while in the Vampire Lord Form.

Shantu

I think it would make for some pretty interesting gameplay if a well-fed vampire started with a base strength and vulnerability. Then as they grow hungrier, their strength increases...but so does their vulnerability. At the final stage you would have a starving vampire that is monstrously strong, but easy to kill. Sounds pretty cool to me.

ShadowHvo

Shantu wrote: »

I think it would make for some pretty interesting gameplay if a well-fed vampire started with a base strength and vulnerability. Then as they grow hungrier, their strength increases...but so does their vulnerability. At the final stage you would have a starving vampire that is monstrously strong, but easy to kill. Sounds pretty cool to me.

I agree whole heartily, and that is how it has often been represented in the TES Universe, something that was largely supported by the gameplay mechanic added in Oblivion, which then were translated into both Skyrim and ESO.

ESO's mistake in this, is to leave it half-baked and never fully realized, in particular with its lack of incorporation into the Justice System.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I said this already, but you don't know how interesting it will be. I don't think that any of us can see the future, and at this point we're just talking about pure speculations.
I mean, I understand that you have a headcanon for your character. But changes in lore are inevitable, all major games in the series has done it, and a lot of these changes actually improved the series.

Also, vampire lord form is not a separate entity, it's your power. And it increases as you feed on mortals. That's it.

I don't, you're very much correct. But I fear the absolute worst when they reveal a rework, that threaten the canon that I hold dearly beloved.

When we add in the injustice given to the Bosmer and the Argonian fans, I don't really believe that ZOS has the best of track records.

The Vampire Lord form is the power, one power, which increases as you feed. Feeding doesn't increases the passive strengths of the vampire, in fact, it only retracts several of its abilities outside of Vampire Lord Form.

Feeding in the Vampire Lord Form only increases the powers and passives of the Vampire Lord Form, and that is how it functioned in Skyrim, by giving the player Perk Points to allocate as they saw it fit. However, those points ONLY benefited the vampire while in the Vampire Lord Form.

Thing is, in Skyrim they pretty much just reused Oblivion vampirism mechanic (with less punishing penalties) and then added vampire lord stuff on top of that. There's also balance aspect, as the devs needed to balance vampiric powers with penalties you get at higher stages. But this approach to balance is not the only option, and clearly ZOS decided to choose another path (they cant really debuff players during daytime since you cant just skip time in an mmo). But "different" doesn't mean "worse". Otherwise all TES games after Daggerfall would be pure trash because they changed a lot in style, tone and lore of the series.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

This guy ^ gets it.

Yeah, you prefer your fanon headcanon over the actual canon of the Elder Scrolls Universe, we get it.

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Thing is, in Skyrim they pretty much just reused Oblivion vampirism mechanic (with less punishing penalties) and then added vampire lord stuff on top of that. There's also balance aspect, as the devs needed to balance vampiric powers with penalties you get at higher stages. But this approach to balance is not the only option, and clearly ZOS decided to choose another path (they cant really debuff players during daytime since you cant just skip time in an mmo). But "different" doesn't mean "worse". Otherwise all TES games after Daggerfall would be pure trash because they changed a lot in style, tone and lore of the series.

They did, and there is no reason why they still cannot better balance Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, as well as making it more engaging without having to completely ruin the fantasy appeal that it provided.

Different, when it diverges as greatly as it does, is indeed worse in my opinion, but that is subjective, naturally.

That is why this post was created, and why I'm still here in this thread, arguing and fighting for TES Vampirism that I've grown to love and care about, because this new rework doesn't sound like it.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

If you aren't majority, then there's no reason to cater to you. They aren't going to change the system for the few die-hard TES vampire fans. Especially those that make assumptions and don't wait to see the actual changes.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Thing is, in Skyrim they pretty much just reused Oblivion vampirism mechanic (with less punishing penalties) and then added vampire lord stuff on top of that. There's also balance aspect, as the devs needed to balance vampiric powers with penalties you get at higher stages. But this approach to balance is not the only option, and clearly ZOS decided to choose another path (they cant really debuff players during daytime since you cant just skip time in an mmo). But "different" doesn't mean "worse". Otherwise all TES games after Daggerfall would be pure trash because they changed a lot in style, tone and lore of the series.

They did, and there is no reason why they still cannot better balance Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, as well as making it more engaging without having to completely ruin the fantasy appeal that it provided.

Different, when it diverges as greatly as it does, is indeed worse in my opinion, but that is subjective, naturally.

That is why this post was created, and why I'm still here in this thread, arguing and fighting for TES Vampirism that I've grown to love and care about, because this new rework doesn't sound like it.

But what IS TES vampirism? Is everything after Daggerfall non-valid because it was changed in the later games? They changed the system quite drastically, and the stage system didnt even come into play until TES 4. So you could also call it lore-breaking - how's that, my Morrowind vampire didnt lose his vampire perks after feeding!
I get it, you like Oblivion-esque system. But it's not the only option and perhaps trying something new will be better than a watered down version of TES 4.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

Canon is what we make of it. Everything is told by the people in the series.

When the old lore master left. He left this to the community and I copied and pasted some of it here.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.

Tamriel is a world where all history, past and future, is described in the ever-shifting texts of the mysterious Elder Scrolls, which tell always of what might be rather than of what is.
And what your character does, and says, and believes, becomes part of that world. For you, and whoever else shares the experience, what happened is now part of the lore. The non-player characters are all there, ready to share their stories with you, but it’s you who makes those stories live, because your character has agency and meaningful choices where the NPCs do not. Moreover, what your character does persists for you, and the stories you’ve told and the experiences you’ve shared with your friends live on in your own memories. You just added to the history of Tamriel.

What he is saying all our view points all our beliefs are true. Canon is what we make up it what our characters make up it. Each of us determine it differently. While I see vampires as unliving, some see them as undead. Both would be true because that is what the characters believe and what the players believe. If a vampire or person believes a vampire is a living being they are a living being.
So there is no one canon there is everyone's canon and each person's canon is different and all of them are true. Just like a dragonbreak where all outcomes become reality similar principle.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

If you aren't majority, then there's no reason to cater to you. They aren't going to change the system for the few die-hard TES vampire fans. Especially those that make assumptions and don't wait to see the actual changes.

Then I'm sure you won't mind me keeping up my attempts at having our voices heard, so that both sides of the coin can be equally satisfied. The literal only thing that I'm fighting for, is simply for the function of the stages to not be turned on its head, so that it can adhere to fantasy of an Elder Scrolls Vampire.

Noxavian

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Whose the "we"? You and the 2 other people on this thread of over 200 comments who agree with you?

Scroll through the pages at your own leisure, then you'll see quite a few more, if you arent equally blind as ignorant, of course.

Are we majority? No, nor did I claim that. But we're passionate fans of the TES Vampire canon, even if you don't appreciate it.

Canon is what we make of it. Everything is told by the people in the series.

When the old lore master left. He left this to the community and I copied and pasted some of it here.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.

Tamriel is a world where all history, past and future, is described in the ever-shifting texts of the mysterious Elder Scrolls, which tell always of what might be rather than of what is.
And what your character does, and says, and believes, becomes part of that world. For you, and whoever else shares the experience, what happened is now part of the lore. The non-player characters are all there, ready to share their stories with you, but it’s you who makes those stories live, because your character has agency and meaningful choices where the NPCs do not. Moreover, what your character does persists for you, and the stories you’ve told and the experiences you’ve shared with your friends live on in your own memories. You just added to the history of Tamriel.

What he is saying all our view points all our beliefs are true. Canon is what we make up it what our characters make up it. Each of us determine it differently. While I see vampires as unliving, some see them as undead. Both would be true because that is what the characters believe and what the players believe. If a vampire or person believes a vampire is a living being they are a living being.
So there is no one canon there is everyones canon and each person's canon is different.

Once again, this man gets it. I expect nothing less judging by your name though. (:

Cillion3117

I like the idea. Feeding should make them stronger.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

But what IS TES vampirism? Is everything after Daggerfall non-valid because it was changed in the later games? They changed the system quite drastically, and the stage system didnt even come into play until TES 4. So you could also call it lore-breaking - how's that, my Morrowind vampire didnt lose his vampire perks after feeding!
I get it, you like Oblivion-esque system. But it's not the only option and perhaps trying something new will be better than a watered down version of TES 4.

I've never said, nor even alluded to such extreme?

The stages function, to me, was clearly an answer to Daggerfall and Morrowind's lack of option and meaningful gameplay as a Vampire.

It provided an option to play the civil, masquerading vampire, instead of only allowing you to be the monstrous predator that everyone feared, and the guards attacked on sight.

Your Morrowind vampire didn't lose their perks after feeding, but nor could they walk in the sun, or interact with a large majority of Vvardenfell's populous.

It's not even that, I don't prefer Oblivion's system, I prefer Daggerfall and Morrowind! But I see, and I know that such an experience is impossible within an MMO. That is why, with ESO's justice system, that the stages provides both alternatives.

They could implement everything that is cool, while still sticking to how the vampire progress through their stages, and keep everyone happy, and appease us who dearly care for the true-to-lore experience that the system is capable of providing.