Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

Ratzkifal

@ShadowHvo Even in Dawnguard they didn't reverse that from what I know. All that changed was that you level up your new vampire lord skills, but the actual effectiveness still went up when starved rather than when fed.

Ratzkifal

iCaliban wrote: »

The current lore is incredibly stupid. If feeding makes a vampire weaker why would they ever do it?

OP just accept a retcon. Its not a big deal especially when previous lore meant so little

@iCaliban Because if they don't it becomes obvious to everyone they are a vampire due to their appearance changing and they become rabid. It's a trade-off.

IsharaMeradin

Almost every vampire fiction contains some facet of the idea that not feeding turns one into a hideous monster of varying strengths and powers. At the same time, these vampire fictions demonstrate that feeding provides much more than just a retention of mortal appearance. A vampire that feeds increases their vitality, heals their wounds and even gains strength from the blood.

There is a vampire related quest in Eastmarch which has one faction feeding on men and mer while the other feeds on skeevars and other animals. The quest shows that there is power in feeding and that that power is relative to the blood source. Dragonhold incorporates this idea hinting at how much more powerful a vampire would become if they were to feed on a dragon.

I am all for the idea of feeding providing power. I am also okay with not feeding providing power. In fact, there is no reason that both could not coexist. Each could provide different powers and abilities.

Vampires in ESO needed something to be done. While I did not see the broadcast and have no idea how things were explained, I am looking forward to the changes going live before I make any sort of decision.

Jcarson0408

Ratzkifal wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

The current lore is incredibly stupid. If feeding makes a vampire weaker why would they ever do it?

OP just accept a retcon. Its not a big deal especially when previous lore meant so little

@iCaliban Because if they don't it becomes obvious to everyone they are a vampire due to their appearance changing and they become rabid. It's a trade-off.

But if they never feed then why should anyone care? It's because vampires drink the blood of the living that people care. So developers need to give us a reason to feed as well.

Contaminate

TheFM wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

There’s no respect for lore present in ZOS’s decision making team. Bosmer lore completely ignored, Argonian lore completely ignored, Vampire lore completely ignored.

All of these will be debated multiple times, but ZOS only cares if people stop spending money. If people buy the chapter, that’s their go-ahead to keep crapping all over lore, because obviously people don’t care enough.

This is an mmo, they cannot use all the same passives from single player games in it. Yeesh.

Sorry if the playerbase expects some consistency when established lore dictates Bosmer have an innate affinity for stealth, but ESO decides they’re watchdogs instead to always be on the hunt for hidden enemies.

Sorry if Argonians have always been innately poison resistant, a fact that is still brought up in new content, but ESO decides to give them no poison resistance at all while telling players multiple times in the world that Argonians are supposed to be poison resistant.

Sorry if Elder Scrolls (and ESO) vampires have always had more power behind them when starved, at the cost of mental facilities and appearance detriments, but ESO has arbitrarily decided they will be less powerful instead and completely flip the mechanic five years later

XomRhoK

In unmodded TES:Skyrim there were no point in feeding, unless you go into town. When you explored some dungeon or in combat there were no reason to feed, you just became weaker, it gave nothing to feel you playing a vampire character. When i modded vampire stages(more you feed more powerful and more humanlike you become) gameplay became so much fun. In dungeons i tried to sneak to sleeping bandits and bite them, when i went to dwemer ruins i knew that i must be hurry, or at the end of the dungeon i could became weaker because of starving, that was cool. Same thing with ESO, if you want to play powerfull vampire you have zero reasons to feed. It's ruin the feel of the vampire gameplay. So i am glad that they change feeding system, but the part with more you feed more vampiric you look is very doubtful. I am personally like nonhuman vampiric look of my character, but i know there are people that like opposite, and the only solution i see is to give thematic skins to players. I personally very like look of Volkihar clan vampires in TES: Skyrim.
And additionally in MMOs you can't use some of the singleplayer features to balance vampirism. For example sunlight. In singleplayer game you could just wait or sleep till night in MMO you can't, will you wait couple of hours till sun goes down or will you ask your dungeon party to do the same? Or your appearance, you can't load save file if quest NPC saw that you are a vampire and tried to kill you.

ShadowHvo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@ShadowHvo Even in Dawnguard they didn't reverse that from what I know. All that changed was that you level up your new vampire lord skills, but the actual effectiveness still went up when starved rather than when fed.

Very true, but it wasn't my intend to say that it was reversed in Dawnguard, but simply that the standard non-vampire-lord experience were dumped down by the removal of sunlight damage, and the populous reacting to you as a monstrous vampire at stage 4.

Starlock wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

I disagree with your assessment of it being within reason, for had it been within reason, it would adhere to lore while proving itself as a fun and enjoyable mechanic.

What would be your way of doing that for this game?

Ironically enough, I would've done similar to their current iteration, with the exception of adhering to the existing fantasy.

Vampirism should've been fully functioning within the Justice System, wherein some NPC's will refuse interactions with vampires at stage 3, in fear of their sickly appearance they've got, while stage 4 should be an immediate crime that sends NPC's fleeing, and guards attacking.

Meanwhile, more cool abilities should've been added, each of which adheres to the vampire fantasy, which I'm sure the new abilities will do. However, prolonged abuse of said abilities should rapidly increase the stages, which unlocks more passives strengths to the vampire, yet so too passive disadvantages.

This keeps the power dynamic wherein the vampire becomes stronger, yet more monstrous the more famished they become. While slightly weaker, yet socially accepted the healthier, and well-fed they remain.

This keeps the player in an infinite loop wherein they need to feed in order to thrive amongst the populous, and not attract attention towards themselves from the watchful eyes of the local guard.

Ideally, I would even prefer if vampires in stage 4 would take damage from sunlight. However, I do know that this is merely a fools dream on my end, one that unfortunately will never be a reality in this game.

Starlock wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

This does nothing, but turning vampirism on its head. Now you need to starve yourself to appear more humane, to appear healthy and recover your mortality, while you need to continuously consume blood to appear monstrous and famished.

We don't actually know that's how it is going to work yet. We don't know a lot of things. We know that they're reversing the general progression and at the same time redoing the vampire skill line. We don't know how those two things are going to interact with one another, or with character appearance. We can assume that they will interact in some way, but beyond that, we'll just need to wait to learn more.

My complaint relies solely on the statement that Lemon offered in regards to the readjustment of how the vampire stages function. This whole thread is a direct reply towards that.

I simply do not understand how this whole "We vampires have no need to feed!" always have been so easily fixed by implementing it into the justice system, yet they never did it. That, similar to both Skyrim pre-dawnguard and Oblivion, gives every single vampire a literal need to keep themselves well-fed whenever they wish to pay a visit to the local town.

Starlock wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

This new retcon? Yeah, that ruins the unique vampire fantasy that the TES franchise have long provided.

I guess that depends on how you understood that fantasy. Personally, I never liked it. Have you ever used the Sacrosanct mod for Skyrim? What if the new system works something like that?

I've never no, so I cannot speak on behalf of that mod, or those who like it.

However, what I can speak about, is that I was attracted to Elder Scrolls because of how they implemented vampirism, and that I've always liked it here in ESO, despite its lacking features that it desperately needed. To me, the power dynamic within a vampire, and the struggle against their insatiable hunger and craving for power in rival against their will to appear and thrive alongside mortal society, is the appeal that drew me to this fantasy specifically.

That is the very fantasy, that they've confirmed today, will be taken away from me, and unlike a single player game, I cannot simply mod this to my desire.

.. if I could, you'll have seen a vampire burning, and perishing in the sun several times.

ShadowHvo

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

But if they never feed then why should anyone care? It's because vampires drink the blood of the living that people care. So developers need to give us a reason to feed as well.

The developers should give us this reason just as Skyrim once did, and how Oblivion did it.

You feed to remain healthy and appear as they, mortal.

If you do not feed, you're monstrous, visceral, hideous, hunted by Monster Hunters and attacked by the Guard, NPC's fleeing from the mere sight of your ghastly appearance.

That is the Elder Scrolls trade of, and very the appealing reason to remain well-fed and keep feeding in secret.

Stravokov

it's pathetic how some of you view the lore as a sacred bible that cant be change, altered, or added too. Zenimax holds the rights to make changes (within limits of course), so stop the holier than thou routine. it's a game, stories can and WILL change. specially when you consider all the mechanics and systems ESO brings to the table, compromises are expected.

ive played since launch as a vampire and literally quit due to how poorly the Skill line was implemented. The core point of playing a montrous character is to i don't know... BE MONSTROUS?! lol. with the current system, the game insensivises you not to feed... Catch that? a VAMPIRE that doe's not feed on blood is a bloody joke! (pun intended).

Ive been asking for these changes here on the forums, and they literally are following through with what the community wants (im not alone). finally, i can play a vampire! feeding on victims, lurking in the shadows with the blood of an ancient dwelling just skin deep... THANK YOU ZENIMAX for this Chapter and Vampire rework. i certainly will be buying the Greymoore chapter and starting up my subscription again.

Contaminate

Stravokov wrote: »

it's pathetic how some of you view the lore as a sacred bible that cant be change, altered, or added too. Zenimax holds the rights to make changes (within limits of course), so stop the holier than thou routine. it's a game, stories can and WILL change. specially when you consider all the mechanics and systems ESO brings to the table, compromises are expected.

ive played since launch as a vampire and literally quit due to how poorly the Skill line was implemented. The core point of playing a montrous character is to i don't know... BE MONSTROUS?! lol. with the current system, the game insensivises you not to feed... Catch that? a VAMPIRE that doe's not feed on blood is a bloody joke! (pun intended).

Ive been asking for these changes here on the forums, and they literally are following through with what the community wants (im not alone). finally, i can play a vampire! feeding on victims, lurking in the shadows with the blood of an ancient dwelling just skin deep... THANK YOU ZENIMAX for this Chapter and Vampire rework. i certainly will be buying the Greymoore chapter and starting up my subscription again.

God forbid we want consistency amiright

Stravokov

i remember similar complaints about adding mounts that were non lore. people complained when they wanted to add an undead horse for the first halloween event, to which i think they actually held off.

But now take a look at aaaaaaaaaaall the glowy mounts. spectral, elemental, robotic, cat, bear, elk etc etc etc... now you don't hear a peep. point is, its a business/game. if they can improve or offer something for the better, lore be damned.

ShadowHvo

Stravokov wrote: »

i remember similar complaints about adding mounts that were non lore. people complained when they wanted to add an undead horse for the first halloween event, to which i think they actually held off.

But now take a look at aaaaaaaaaaall the glowy mounts. spectral, elemental, robotic, cat, bear, elk etc etc etc... now you don't hear a peep. point is, its a business/game. if they can improve or offer something for the better, lore be damned.

I care too much about this game to not speak up about an ill-advised change that directly sits in opposition to what I love about the game.

Ridicule it, shame it, belittle it as much as you want.

It won't stop me from trying to get my voice heard, so that they can improve and make vampirism better without ruining the already established canon.

Thevampirenight

Well this team might have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work different. Point is no sense doing all that cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion for skyrim. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Siohwenoeht

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

I do not understand how you come to these conclusions.

Yes, there are many different strains of vampirism and bloodlines.

Yes, they all have various strengths and weaknesses.

Nobody is arguing anything remotely close to that.

They're retconning Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, that is factual, they're changing it from something it is, to something entirely different.

That is a change, a retcon of how it previously were.

I, am one of those people, who're unhappy about this change, because it directly affects me, and the character I've played since the very first day that the servers went live. It loosely matched the TES vampire fantasy that I sought after, and it now no longer will.

Noxavian

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

Bro not it isn't. Get real with yourself, please. They're making vampires have to actually /do/ and play as vampires, which is excellent. If anything, they're making them thematically better.

It is in no way shape or form remotely like changing the fundamentals of a class/skill. "OH NO, I GOTTA ACTUALLY play to keep my vampire stuff instead of just using the passives for the skills for freeeeeeee. OHHHN NOOOO"

Thevampirenight

Also I got to remind you all of what happens to vampires that don't feed.
One either go feral from the blood thirst or end up in a coma. That is the fate of vampires that don't feed. Only the prisoner hero I think plus pure blooded vampires could even last without feeding. The rest are forced to feed or end up in the states these two vampires ended up in.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Lord_Lovidicus
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Rona_Hassildor

Oblivion had very good examples of it. Even though we didn't get many vampire quests.

Rona didn't like drinking blood to the point she ended up in a coma like state and only so often could be revived maybe.

Lord Lovidicus was trapped in a room without the ability to escape and went almost into a feral state. Weakened and very very thirsty to where he can't help but attack you.
Serana, Harkon,Veronica were able to go without feeding. Harkon even considered it to be something weaker vampires do to stave off the sun as if its not important and since Veronica had no blood in her location for all those thousands of years. It makes sense only pure bloods can actually stave off feeding. Second gen vampires and below likely have to feed. So only those vampires might not have to feed. Given the pure blooded vampires or second gen in the Volikhar castle all having to feed.

Siohwenoeht

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

Bro not it isn't. Get real with yourself, please. They're making vampires have to actually /do/ and play as vampires, which is excellent. If anything, they're making them thematically better.

It is in no way shape or form remotely like changing the fundamentals of a class/skill. "OH NO, I GOTTA ACTUALLY play to keep my vampire stuff instead of just using the passives for the skills for freeeeeeee. OHHHN NOOOO"

They're homogenizing them to be like every other vampire in every other medium. I'm more upset that the uniqueness is going away, not just for vamps, but in the game as a whole. That's where the comparison to class skills is relevant

And aren't you arguing in another thread that PC necros aren't like the npc/pc necros from the previous titles? In fact saying the summons are just reskinned Dot's? Same thing here.

Noxavian

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

Bro not it isn't. Get real with yourself, please. They're making vampires have to actually /do/ and play as vampires, which is excellent. If anything, they're making them thematically better.

It is in no way shape or form remotely like changing the fundamentals of a class/skill. "OH NO, I GOTTA ACTUALLY play to keep my vampire stuff instead of just using the passives for the skills for freeeeeeee. OHHHN NOOOO"

They're homogenizing them to be like every other vampire in every other medium. I'm more upset that the uniqueness is going away, not just for vamps, but in the game as a whole. That's where the comparison to class skills is relevant

And aren't you arguing in another thread that PC necros aren't like the npc/pc necros fr the previous titles? In fact saying the summons are just reskinned Dot's? Same thing here.

Nope, nowhere near the same thing, actually. And what "uniqueness"? The uniqueness of not having to play as a subclass in order to get it's strongest benefits? That's a pretty bad thing to be unique about, tbh.

As for the necro thing, literally not even sure how logically you can make the comparison. Me complaining about necromancers not playing like, you know, a necromancer is actually....just kinda proving my point. You don't want to be a vampire to play as a vampire. Just own up that you want some free thing without having to work for it.

Siohwenoeht

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

Bro not it isn't. Get real with yourself, please. They're making vampires have to actually /do/ and play as vampires, which is excellent. If anything, they're making them thematically better.

It is in no way shape or form remotely like changing the fundamentals of a class/skill. "OH NO, I GOTTA ACTUALLY play to keep my vampire stuff instead of just using the passives for the skills for freeeeeeee. OHHHN NOOOO"

They're homogenizing them to be like every other vampire in every other medium. I'm more upset that the uniqueness is going away, not just for vamps, but in the game as a whole. That's where the comparison to class skills is relevant

And aren't you arguing in another thread that PC necros aren't like the npc/pc necros fr the previous titles? In fact saying the summons are just reskinned Dot's? Same thing here.

Nope, nowhere near the same thing, actually. And what "uniqueness"? The uniqueness of not having to play as a subclass in order to get it's strongest benefits? That's a pretty bad thing to be unique about, tbh.

As for the necro thing, literally not even sure how logically you can make the comparison. Me complaining about necromancers not playing like, you know, a necromancer is actually....just kinda proving my point. You don't want to be a vampire to play as a vampire. Just own up that you want some free thing without having to work for it.

The point is that tes vamps haven't worked like the run of the mill vamps and now they do. Definition of losing uniqueness. Your necro isn't a tes necro and now vamps aren't tes vamps.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Nope, nowhere near the same thing, actually. And what "uniqueness"? The uniqueness of not having to play as a subclass in order to get it's strongest benefits? That's a pretty bad thing to be unique about, tbh.

As for the necro thing, literally not even sure how logically you can make the comparison. Me complaining about necromancers not playing like, you know, a necromancer is actually....just kinda proving my point. You don't want to be a vampire to play as a vampire. Just own up that you want some free thing without having to work for it.

Except that this new change doesn't make vampires play like Elder Scrolls Vampires.

It makes them play like literally any modern fiction vampire. Lets just summon in Twilight, True Blood, Originals, whatever.

They can add the abilities, keep the current progression of stages and keep feeding as a requirement to remain healthy and keep the apparel of a mortal, so that you can interact with NPC's in towns.

Literally, add the cool new abilities and integrate vampirism into the justice system as it should've been from the start.

BAM. You're an Elder Scrolls Vampire, and you're forced to feed meaningfully. But no, ruin it all with this bastardized retcon.

Noxavian

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well this team does seem to have the mindset of the more coda type thing. Basically there is no canon. Reality is all a dream and this can give them more room to do stuff. Also each strain of vampirism might work differant. Point is no sense doing all taht cool stuff with it if people won't use it. So it makes sense to reverse it. I was very pleased they were going to do this. Blood is life blood is power theme. The stages system wasn't even added till Oblivion. They basically copied and pasted the feeding system used for Oblivion. Only in Dawngaurd did they give the sneak up and other feeding options. Like using vampires seduction.
So not every vampire has stages, some do maybe some have only three stages some maybe five. Does not mean they are all the same they are not since vampires are very diverse in the Elder scrolls. Given there is over 100 clans of vampire and we only see only some of them.

Then they should have added a strain instead of modifying the current one. Be infected by different strains depending on the location you're bit in. No one would've batted an eye at something like that.

This is the same thing as fundamentally changing the way a staple skill for a class works (hello wings, incap, blazing shield, rune cage etc).

Bro not it isn't. Get real with yourself, please. They're making vampires have to actually /do/ and play as vampires, which is excellent. If anything, they're making them thematically better.

It is in no way shape or form remotely like changing the fundamentals of a class/skill. "OH NO, I GOTTA ACTUALLY play to keep my vampire stuff instead of just using the passives for the skills for freeeeeeee. OHHHN NOOOO"

They're homogenizing them to be like every other vampire in every other medium. I'm more upset that the uniqueness is going away, not just for vamps, but in the game as a whole. That's where the comparison to class skills is relevant

And aren't you arguing in another thread that PC necros aren't like the npc/pc necros fr the previous titles? In fact saying the summons are just reskinned Dot's? Same thing here.

Nope, nowhere near the same thing, actually. And what "uniqueness"? The uniqueness of not having to play as a subclass in order to get it's strongest benefits? That's a pretty bad thing to be unique about, tbh.

As for the necro thing, literally not even sure how logically you can make the comparison. Me complaining about necromancers not playing like, you know, a necromancer is actually....just kinda proving my point. You don't want to be a vampire to play as a vampire. Just own up that you want some free thing without having to work for it.

The point is that tes vamps haven't worked like the run of the mill vamps and now they do. Definition of losing uniqueness. Your necro isn't a tes necro and now vamps aren't tes vamps.

Just because something is unique doesn't mean it's good. And my complaint with necro is that it isn't like **any** necromancer, ever. I have literally never seen a worse interpretation of a necromancer in any game. Yet again another example of uniqueness not really being a good thing.

Also from the lore perspective, I choose to believe that some bloodlines behave like "test vamps" and others behave more traditionally. Is that so hard to accept?

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Just because something is unique doesn't mean it's good. And my complaint with necro is that it isn't like **any** necromancer, ever. I have literally never seen a worse interpretation of a necromancer in any game. Yet again another example of uniqueness not really being a good thing.

Also from the lore perspective, I choose to believe that some bloodlines behave like "test vamps" and others behave more traditionally. Is that so hard to accept?

It isn't good because Zenimax never bothered to fully realize it.

They needed to add to it and improve it, but instead they're just throwing it in the bin and copying the same boring homework of every other modern vampire fiction.

Whatever you choose to believe is irrelevant, and doesn't change the matter of fact that this is a clear cut retcon, and a big diversion from how vampirism function in the TES Universe.

Literally nobody would complain if they did this by just adding it as a new separate bloodline / strain. Take your pick, everyone can go home happy.

Faulgor

I totally missed this. That's a really disappointing change.

I don't know too much about how vampirism worked pre-Oblivion, but it always made total sense to me that ingesting human blood made you more human.

"But then why feed at all if you lose your power" - because otherwise you starve/go insane from the hunger. It's a curse, not a fun powerup. Otherwise, why would anyone not want to be a vampire?

Speaking of which, what are the downsides to being a vampire in this new system? There are hardly any now, and they just seem to make it more casual.

dcam86b14_ESO

Everyone cries about everything. Do whatever you like.

Rampeal

In all honesty it is better this way. Nothing gets stronger by starvation, not even diseases. Everything requires substance to thrive and move forward.

I don't care if it messes with "Lore" because this is one lore where the writer did not know what they were talking about.

Enough said

Stravokov

like Dracula said, "the blood is the life". no blood, no life.

80%ish some pvpers take vampire purely for the passives. i get the impression allot of the people complaining here are just masking that reality. they don't want to be bothered with actually playing as a vampire.

frankly ShadowHvo, you are the minority. allot of players wanted these changes to the skill line so the game play was more challenging and enjoyable. if it comes to a decision between lore, or gameplay? gameplay will always win because it is a game.

ask yourself this; "what is lore?" some guy sitting on a toilet dreams up the Elder Scrolls story, and you treat it like it's the ten commandments. it's fiction, its not real... and therefore subject to change.

XomRhoK

Faulgor wrote: »

I totally missed this. That's a really disappointing change.

I don't know too much about how vampirism worked pre-Oblivion, but it always made total sense to me that ingesting human blood made you more human.

"But then why feed at all if you lose your power" - because otherwise you starve/go insane from the hunger. It's a curse, not a fun powerup. Otherwise, why would anyone not want to be a vampire?

Speaking of which, what are the downsides to being a vampire in this new system? There are hardly any now, and they just seem to make it more casual.

From my point of view if vampire starving he can be more feral, he can sense blood from longer distance, but he not become more powerful, not get new abilities like it was in TES: Skyrim, for example.
And about downsides, losing power of abilities when starving can be one of the downsides.

duendology

Langeston wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

On the plus side, vampires won’t need to wear a skin anymore to not look hideous since you will want to stay fed.

Nope, they reversed that too: the well-fed vampires are now the hideous ones.

@Langeston Wait, did they say that anywhere? I didn't hear that part... If so, that makes even less sense than the power. The moment a vampire bites you, you immediately turn super ugly so that literally everyone around you immediately knows "Oh, he got bit". So no secret involved anymore. That can't be right...

Yes, the guy said something along the lines of "yeah, and now it's when you feed that your appearance changes." (Not verbatim.) Basically, the most powerful stage (1, 4 whatever it's going to be called) is still the ugly stage.

Well, it wasn't literally said "well, now when you feed you'll get stronger but uglier", so we don't know it really. And it's not like the appearance does not change already when you feed now, you get prettier but weaker. If it's like what you say,, which does not make sense to me, and people always complained about the stage 4th.

And this aesthetic aspect has always been one thing people complained about..although, personally, it's probably badly designed because to me it looks cheesy this 4th stage vampirism.. like too much badly put gothic make-up, especially EYELINER, not scary at all! LOL.

AlienSlof

Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

I disagree. Feeding should be a requirement for staying strong. Otherwise, why drink blood at all? This whole 'stronger while hungry' thing never sat well with me, and in the other games I always used (or made) mods to make it as it should be. Many vampire myths were born from ancient beliefs that drinking the blood of your enemies made you stronger (it doesn't, though is an excellent treatment for anemia!), and in most vampire lore, feeding makes you stronger and less like a withered old corpse.

So yeah, I'll really enjoy the changes.