Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

Tornaad

With the addition of the vampire lords they could simply make it so that if you do not feed then you eventually turn to a vampire lord, and if you are seen as a vampire lord then it would count as a crime, which would make it so that if you wanted to go into town or interact with people you first need to feed, and make sure you are not seen in the process.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Ratzkifal wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

There is a couple of dialogue lines etc in ESO that supports the "Feeding makes you stronger." so it's not completely out of the blue.

@NotaDaedraWorshipper I haven't done the Rivenspire quests yet (save the best for last as they say). I'm guessing that's where it is. Can you try to find the quote and put it here? That would be really interesting.

@Ratzkifal Sadly I don't have any screenshots but I remember the latest dialogue about it is in the Weeping Scar in Northern Elsweyr, There's a quest there with a clan of vampires and the one you help (Yushiha)

restrain from feeding on people and has only recieved blood that was offered willingly before the flu then afterwards from the sparse animals around. While her brother and the rest of her clan has started have a bit of a feeding frenzy on people. She's weak from not feeding while the brother and the rest of the clan is getting stronger from it.

Ratzkifal

God this is infuriating. It's the Bosmer thread all over again. Everyone comes in here and thinks themselves a lore expert or doesn't bother to realize that this is a thread about lore and just whines because they wanted the rework to vampirism and think this thread is against that. And then there are people who don't bother to read anything that anyone else has said (admittedly, the longer the thread goes the harder this becomes).

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

Ratzkifal

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

There is a couple of dialogue lines etc in ESO that supports the "Feeding makes you stronger." so it's not completely out of the blue.

@NotaDaedraWorshipper I haven't done the Rivenspire quests yet (save the best for last as they say). I'm guessing that's where it is. Can you try to find the quote and put it here? That would be really interesting.

@Ratzkifal Sadly I don't have any screenshots but I remember the latest dialogue about it is in the Weeping Scar in Northern Elsweyr, There's a quest there with a clan of vampires and the one you help (Yushiha)

restrain from feeding on people and has only recieved blood that was offered willingly before the flu then afterwards from the sparse animals around. While her brother and the rest of her clan has started have a bit of a feeding frenzy on people. She's weak from not feeding while the brother and the rest of the clan is getting stronger from it.

@NotaDaedraWorshipper Okay, nice find. I would have been more convinced if that source was from Lawrence's loremaster time, so Rivenspire. Now we are using Leamon's words to prove Leamon's claims...

I also found something interesting in the description of Greymoor.

Supernatural harrowstorms plague Western Skyrim, and dark beasts, led by a powerful Vampire Lord, devour souls to further their mysterious plans.

It's possible that these vampires do something other vampires don't, which grants them more strength the more they feed by consuming the souls as well. Of course this is speculation and considering that from the way it's worded the "dark beasts" and "harrowstorms" could also be the ones devouring souls perhaps only figuratively, this is not solid evidence but an interesting hint nontheless.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Ratzkifal wrote: »

God this is infuriating. It's the Bosmer thread all over again. Everyone comes in here and thinks themselves a lore expert or doesn't bother to realize that this is a thread about lore and just whines because they wanted the rework to vampirism and think this thread is against that. And then there are people who don't bother to read anything that anyone else has said (admittedly, the longer the thread goes the harder this becomes).

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

Nothing new here. I remember in the bosmer thread how people complained about the complaining and said they didn't want "that" instead they wanted "this" which was the exact thing we wanted and they previously said they didn't.

Oh, remembered another line. Lamae Bal tells you to feed and continue do so to get stronger aswell.

There are numerous strains of the vampire disease in TES, so this might be this one's thing?

Ratzkifal

Zuboko wrote: »

With the addition of the vampire lords they could simply make it so that if you do not feed then you eventually turn to a vampire lord, and if you are seen as a vampire lord then it would count as a crime, which would make it so that if you wanted to go into town or interact with people you first need to feed, and make sure you are not seen in the process.

@Zuboko So kind of like a reverse Werewolf transformation which you need to feed to maintain but instead feed to surpress? Sounds cool, although they said that the Vampire Lord or Blood Scion form is the ultimate of the skill line, so I don't think this is where they will go.

Faulgor

Rukia541 wrote: »

How does NOT FEEDING make you stronger? How does that make sense in any way at all? It makes way more sense to get stronger as you consume more blood.. I mean.. you're a fkn vampire.

Why does this have to be explained over and over again?

Drinking mortal blood makes you more mortal. You correct a deficiency and become (relatively) normal again.
Foregoing that blood makes you more undead/daedric/whathaveyou. A state that has advantages and disadvantages.

Personally I think the other way around is much more nonsensical. How does it make sense that consuming blood makes you stronger? Anyone can drink blood, you don't need to be a vampire to do so. Never made me any stronger when I bit my tongue.

DreamsUnderStars

Sorry dude, but ESO vamps are based on IRL vamp lore (to some extent). Vamps get their power and sustenance from blood. It makes sense for them to get more powerful the more they feed, not weaker.

CynicK

I see going to bg feed and that it lasts for the full battleground a no problem, my only concern is for pvp in cyrodiil there are some npcs and I have to say that i have never tried to feed on them because my vamps are always in stage 4 the only one i would feed is the mage and he does not go to cyro because he is not of the aldmeri dominion, well there are some bandits and stuff but is not that it is populated with characters to feed, well I hope they have something in mind so vampires can stay powerful in cyro with this new mechanic, as long as i do not lose the runs at full speed while sneaking perk i do not mind and well i got used to the resource regeneration bonus too but it is not a life changer, well we will see how this turns out.
I like vampires are seeing an overhaul because just 2 skills was a little bit poor and the ultimate is not great.

Ratzkifal

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Sorry dude, but ESO vamps are based on IRL vamp lore (to some extent). Vamps get their power and sustenance from blood. It makes sense for them to get more powerful the more they feed, not weaker.

And that's where you are wrong. TES vamps (to which ESO vamps belong) don't get their power from blood. They get their power from their disease/affliction/curse/blessing. But in turn it drives them mad and makes them crave blood to sate this craving and easing their affliction/curse/etc.

I said this in an earlier thread on the topic ages ago and I will say it again now.
Ask yourself what is more scary. A hungry vampire or a well-fed vampire? The way our brains are wired, a hungry predator appears more scary because we might be looking like their next meal while a predator who just ate might not care about us at all.
Only when we introduce the implications of what "I fed upon a thousand people" actually entails we know that "this guy be powerful!" This however doesn't really disappear in TES's setting, it just doesn't translate to the (un)godly powers vampires like it does for, say, Alucard from Hellsing Ultimate.

I know I'd run from a rabid beast before I'd run from the smooth talking count in his fancy clothes, because one is inherently more scary than the other.

LadyNalcarya

Ratzkifal wrote: »

God this is infuriating. It's the Bosmer thread all over again. Everyone comes in here and thinks themselves a lore expert or doesn't bother to realize that this is a thread about lore and just whines because they wanted the rework to vampirism and think this thread is against that. And then there are people who don't bother to read anything that anyone else has said (admittedly, the longer the thread goes the harder this becomes).

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

This thread is against changes in existing lore.
But it's important to remember that without changing and sometimes retconning stuff TES would just be a mediocre D&D knockoff and would likely be forgotten by now.
We don't even know how the changes will work, we have nothing concrete. And yet people are already bashing them. It's insane. I am very critical of ZOS, too, but let's actually wait for pts changes before claiming that vampires are ruined forever? It's pretty clear that the story of the new chapter will be focused on vampires, perhaps there will be some sort of lore explanation.

Thevampirenight

Well people are just going to have to learn to vampire/ Ltv

They are fixing the feeding so its not a funnel attack. We are going to be able to feed more like vampires in the VTM. Jumping on people and feeding that way. That is what they are doing. Also the feeding will be more like the other titles. They are completly overhauling vampirism and I would hate to see this ruined because people can't understand what vampires are. Or how to learn how to vampire.

Read up on these two vampires then see how powerful not feeding really is. Only reason why you avoid their fates is you are a prisoner hero and like a form of CHIM able to bend and break the rules of reality. If your fans of Vtm then I do think you guys will love the new vampires.

Also any power they get from it would be fleeting because over time they would then start to degrade becoming weaker. There is only so long they can go without blood. Just like a human or person when it comes to food.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Lord_Lovidicus
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Rona_Hassildor

ShadowHvo

Apologies for the lack of replies, I fear I had to slumber between now, and then. But here we go, I'm back out of the coffin ready to dance.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This thread is against changes in existing lore.
But it's important to remember that without changing and sometimes retconning stuff TES would just be a mediocre D&D knockoff and would likely be forgotten by now.
We don't even know how the changes will work, we have nothing concrete. And yet people are already bashing them. It's insane. I am very critical of ZOS, too, but let's actually wait for pts changes before claiming that vampires are ruined forever? It's pretty clear that the story of the new chapter will be focused on vampires, perhaps there will be some sort of lore explanation.

The suggested changes makes it all the more of a mediocre knockoff of modern vampire fiction, that is why that someone like I, who're a big fan of vampires in TES. (In fact, ironically enough, its what drew me to the series to begin with!) are very fearful for these new changes, for as they were described by Leamon on stage, they're literally turning vampirism completely on its head in favor of the modernized appeal that follows popular teenage vampire flicks.

Whenever there is a lore explanation or not, they're directly retconing Noxiphilic Sanguvioria into what sounds like a Volkihar ripoff. That to me, is a shame.

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

We can be sure it wasn't that guy in the crowd that was yelling "YEAAAHH!" everytime they mentioned a feature. He was embarrassing.

Oh you can be sure that I would've boo'ed them so hard that the bouncer would've had to throw me out.

Ysbriel wrote: »

Starving Vampire weakness in lore....

That is where the dynamic between well-fed and starvation comes into play, a rather important and key aspect that you've conveniently chosen to ignore.

The vampire should never starve themselves completely, as is currently preferred in ESO right now, they should do precisely as in Oblivion and pre-dawnguard Skyrim, wherein feeding was meaningful to your interaction with the world.

I'm not going to list any lore books, because you've literally copied the entire selection in your own reply. But, you claim that the Cyrodiilic Vampyrum Order is one of the strongest as a well-fed strain, and yet we know that to be absolute false in terms of power, but truth in terms of masquerading themselves within mortal society. We see, feel and use that ourselves throughout oblivion.

That is the core aspect that ESO have always lacked, and the core aspect that they should've improved on 4 years ago when the Justice system was introduced, but they didn't, and now they're choosing to bastardize the mechanic behind vampirism in favor of a rule of cool that's a blatant ripoff of most modern vampire fiction.

Which leads me to this...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

^

It has been mentioned multiple times already, yet everyone conveniently ignores that ESO's current system was flawed, and needed improvements, rather than a complete rework. @Ratzkifal post here sums it up perfectly.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They are fixing the feeding so its not a funnel attack. We are going to be able to feed more like vampires in the VTM. Jumping on people and feeding that way. That is what they are doing. Also the feeding will be more like the other titles. They are completly overhauling vampirism and I would hate to see this ruined because people can't understand what vampires are. Or how to learn how to vampire.

@Thevampirenight,

I have a honest question for you.

Do you even remotely understand what we, as fans of TES vampirism, are angry about? Because your post seems to reflect that you do not.

We don't DISLIKE the new AND FAR BETTER WAY OF FEEDING. It should be visceral, cool and monstrous, sinking our teeth into their flesh for their delicious, gushing blood to usher into our famished maw.

I've not seen a single complaint against that.

The literal only thing that we're complaining about, is the fact that they're turning VAMPIRISM and HOW IT WORKS IN STAGES completely on its head in favor of a blatant knockoff of popular, modern vampire fiction, rather than being the unique dynamic that TES vampirism represented.

Ratzkifal

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

God this is infuriating. It's the Bosmer thread all over again. Everyone comes in here and thinks themselves a lore expert or doesn't bother to realize that this is a thread about lore and just whines because they wanted the rework to vampirism and think this thread is against that. And then there are people who don't bother to read anything that anyone else has said (admittedly, the longer the thread goes the harder this becomes).

Why would vampires feed if they become stronger if they don't?
Because guards will recognize them as monsters and attack them.

Why would guards do that when vampires that don't feed aren't a threat?
Because not feeding turns them rabid and they will attack anyone on sight.

Why would anyone bother to feed ingame if players don't feel like they are rabid and not feeding would make you powerful?
Because we could have guards attack you as a stage 4 vampire and that's bothersome when you want to buy stuff from traders or train your mounts.

This thread is against changes in existing lore.
But it's important to remember that without changing and sometimes retconning stuff TES would just be a mediocre D&D knockoff and would likely be forgotten by now.
We don't even know how the changes will work, we have nothing concrete. And yet people are already bashing them. It's insane. I am very critical of ZOS, too, but let's actually wait for pts changes before claiming that vampires are ruined forever? It's pretty clear that the story of the new chapter will be focused on vampires, perhaps there will be some sort of lore explanation.

You are right, retcons are sometimes justified and I for one am not as attached to the way it has worked in the previous games myself. But I am interested in keeping consistency and the way it sounded makes me very worried, especially considering their trackrecord.
And although I'd probably be a bit miffed if they decide to change their mind about vampirism and make them more powerful the more they feed, I won't refuse to play vampire the same way I refuse to put points into Hunter's Eye. However I do feel the pain of the people who are more invested in this than me.
We'll know more on Monday. That's when I would have made this thread, but I get why ShadowHvo couldn't wait.

BaiterOfZergs

All tes vampires aren’t the same.

Ratzkifal

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

All tes vampires aren’t the same.

If that is the explanation they are going with, then they better officially acknowledge that and put some new lore out there that Lamae bestowed upon us the gift of clan blabliblu who become stronger the more they feed while other strands of vampirism do not.

But if we get an explanation along the lines of "Altmer restore stamina through Alteration magic", then we riot, because that makes no sense in-universe.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They are fixing the feeding so its not a funnel attack. We are going to be able to feed more like vampires in the VTM. Jumping on people and feeding that way. That is what they are doing. Also the feeding will be more like the other titles. They are completly overhauling vampirism and I would hate to see this ruined because people can't understand what vampires are. Or how to learn how to vampire.

@Thevampirenight,

I have a honest question for you.

Do you even remotely understand what we, as fans of TES vampirism, are angry about? Because your post seems to reflect that you do not.

We don't DISLIKE the new AND FAR BETTER WAY OF FEEDING. It should be visceral, cool and monstrous, sinking our teeth into their flesh for their delicious, gushing blood to usher into our famished maw.

I've not seen a single complaint against that.

The literal only thing that we're complaining about, is the fact that they're turning VAMPIRISM and HOW IT WORKS IN STAGES completely on its head in favor of a blatant knockoff of popular, modern vampire fiction, rather than being the unique dynamic that TES vampirism represented.

Can't wait for people like you to be ignored, tbh. It seems you are in the small little tiny minority screeching about lore changes. Let's hope ZOS don't buckle their knees to people like you and continue on with the changes.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Can't wait for people like you to be ignored, tbh. It seems you are in the small little tiny minority screeching about lore changes. Let's hope ZOS don't buckle their knees to people like you and continue on with the changes.

Is this your spiteful behaviour because your desired version of a Necromancer being neglected?

ZOS can literally improve on Vampirism and give us all of these cool new changes, without doing an awful, switcheroo on how the vampires progresses in stages between well-fed and famished.

But people like yourself just conveniently ignore that, in your vigilant pursuit to see TES Vampirism become bastardized to no more than the common modern vampire fiction.

What a shame.

BaiterOfZergs

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

All tes vampires aren’t the same.

If that is the explanation they are going with, then they better officially acknowledge that and put some new lore out there that Lamae bestowed upon us the gift of clan blabliblu who become stronger the more they feed while other strands of vampirism do not.

But if we get an explanation along the lines of "Altmer restore stamina through Alteration magic", then we riot, because that makes no sense in-universe.

Seeing that there’s over 100 types they can easily find some way to justify the change. The story is heavily focused on the lore of vampires, maybe there will be an explanation. Although, this wouldn’t be the first time vampires got changed and it’s not the first time lore has changed.

The origins of vampires come from Lamae and Molag apparently but from them it’s a ton of different vampires? Yeah I’m sure they can come up with an explanation.

Ratzkifal

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

All tes vampires aren’t the same.

If that is the explanation they are going with, then they better officially acknowledge that and put some new lore out there that Lamae bestowed upon us the gift of clan blabliblu who become stronger the more they feed while other strands of vampirism do not.

But if we get an explanation along the lines of "Altmer restore stamina through Alteration magic", then we riot, because that makes no sense in-universe.

Seeing that there’s over 100 types they can easily find some way to justify the change. The story is heavily focused on the lore of vampires, maybe there will be an explanation. Although, this wouldn’t be the first time vampires got changed and it’s not the first time lore has changed.

The origins of vampires come from Lamae and Molag apparently but from them it’s a ton of different vampires? Yeah I’m sure they can come up with an explanation.

Well, I did find something interesting in the description about Greymoor stating that they possibly "devour souls". That could be something new and unique to this strand of vampirism we are getting, but we should also not forget that the enemies we face might not be from the same strand of vampirism we the players are from...

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of replies, I fear I had to slumber between now, and then. But here we go, I'm back out of the coffin ready to dance.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This thread is against changes in existing lore.
But it's important to remember that without changing and sometimes retconning stuff TES would just be a mediocre D&D knockoff and would likely be forgotten by now.
We don't even know how the changes will work, we have nothing concrete. And yet people are already bashing them. It's insane. I am very critical of ZOS, too, but let's actually wait for pts changes before claiming that vampires are ruined forever? It's pretty clear that the story of the new chapter will be focused on vampires, perhaps there will be some sort of lore explanation.

The suggested changes makes it all the more of a mediocre knockoff of modern vampire fiction, that is why that someone like I, who're a big fan of vampires in TES. (In fact, ironically enough, its what drew me to the series to begin with!) are very fearful for these new changes, for as they were described by Leamon on stage, they're literally turning vampirism completely on its head in favor of the modernized appeal that follows popular teenage vampire flicks.

Whenever there is a lore explanation or not, they're directly retconing Noxiphilic Sanguvioria into what sounds like a Volkihar ripoff. That to me, is a shame.

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

Varana

- On the "they should just have added a separate skill line and left the current one in":
That would defeat the entire purpose of this rework, as in removing the current "gameplay" of getting a passive bonus and plastering over it with a skin.

- On "feeding makes you more mortal":
That's not universally true, as has been shown repeatedly. It's the case in some games, or some parts of some of the games, but not in others. In Morrowind, feeding does nothing except healing you. It doesn't even take away the social outcast aspect. Either you're a vampire, or you're not. Morrowind vampire bases are full of cattle NPCs for the vampires to feed on but they obviously never really try to mingle with the muggles anyway in their dwemer ruins in the Ashlands. So that's not the purpose of these cattle, even if we wanted to cite technical reasons for the lack of implementation.

- On "feeding should enable you to interact with NPCs, not feeding makes you more feral":
I'm not sure that can be implemented in a satisfying way. If you need to advance your stage to gain better bonuses, that would require players to log in and let the game run idle for half an hour before going into a trial or something. (And then what of the people you encounter in that dungeon?) That is not a "punishing" mechanic or one that lets you juggle your stages, it's a nuisance. (I don't consider the Bloody Maras good gameplay.)
On the other hand, "more feral" just came down to "you look uglier (depending on preference, for some that is actually a bonus) and get stronger". That's not "more feral". Forcing the player character to take actions that they don't want, like randomly attacking innocent bystanders or running off into the wilderness, is a big no-no in a game.
It's the same as with the sun damage: Would be nice but very hard to successfully implement under the constraints of an MMO.

- On "it was unique":
Yes, and that's usually a good thing.
If it makes sense, and for good gameplay. Unfortunately, it was never really well implemented for the player character, esp. (coming back to my previous point) the feral aspect of it. Taking away agency from the player, like going literally insane would require, is not a good gameplay mechanic, so that was toned down. ESO's current implementation is one of the worst offenders of this, actually.
Implementing appropriate cons that are not either just minor inconveniences, or major nuisances without attached gameplay (like requiring the player to just wait), is not that easy. And I don't consider the justice system a useful way to do it here. It's based too much on just letting time pass.

Mettaricana

This whole game goes against 90% of the lore established just blame a dragon break and move on in your life..

BaiterOfZergs

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

All tes vampires aren’t the same.

If that is the explanation they are going with, then they better officially acknowledge that and put some new lore out there that Lamae bestowed upon us the gift of clan blabliblu who become stronger the more they feed while other strands of vampirism do not.

But if we get an explanation along the lines of "Altmer restore stamina through Alteration magic", then we riot, because that makes no sense in-universe.

Seeing that there’s over 100 types they can easily find some way to justify the change. The story is heavily focused on the lore of vampires, maybe there will be an explanation. Although, this wouldn’t be the first time vampires got changed and it’s not the first time lore has changed.

The origins of vampires come from Lamae and Molag apparently but from them it’s a ton of different vampires? Yeah I’m sure they can come up with an explanation.

Well, I did find something interesting in the description about Greymoor stating that they possibly "devour souls". That could be something new and unique to this strand of vampirism we are getting, but we should also not forget that the enemies we face might not be from the same strand of vampirism we the players are from...

Could be the case. But have to remember us choosing to be vampires is also based on our choice, its one of those things that don’t have to be in the actual lore. Almost like how we all run around with mounts and skins that don’t make sense to see in such abundance. However, it doesn’t matter because there’s really only one hero to the story. We’re just filler, so whatever the hero actually does or is will be up to the devs just like with the other tes games.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

No, by teen flicks and common and modern vampire fiction, I mean the usual and standard tropes thats popular in today's medium, which includes vampires feeding to grow stronger while also maintaining full aspect of their humanity, and/or keeping themselves handsome/beautiful/pretty.

It's a system wherein there are literally no weaknesses to feeding, but only positives, wherein TES Skyrim and Oblivion, with their stages, have strengths and weaknesses to both aspects of the extreme spectrum, a duality that balances the vampire.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict each other, since Zenimax can and will change lore, but it is by all intent and purpose a retcon of the Noxiphilic Sanguvoria if the suggested changes makes it to live. It is in my eyes, a woefully unnecessary retcon, that doesn't actually need to happen.

They can keep all the cool new powers, and the cool new way of feeding, while still sticking to the tried and true formula of TES Vampirism in regards to your reason and need to feed. It gives us, the players, a reason to move between the stages, rather than being a static "Lets just remain at the highest / lowest stage for all the passive benefits".

It should be dynamic as it was in TES Oblivion and Pre-Dawnguard Skyrim, but this suggestion doesn't make it that.

I don't for one second disregarding that this could just be a unique new bloodline that functions differently, but we know it isn't, because it is Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and not something new.

EDIT

Morrowind obviously didn't have stages, nor did Daggerfall, however those games kept you in a constant monstrous state. I'm fairly certain that is the reason that Vampirism received stages in Oblivion, and similarily translated to Skyrim, because it gives the player a balanced experience wherien they can dance between being human, and monstrous, a mechanic that is solely adjusted and determined by how often and regularly you feed.

If you ask me, that is far more fun and interesting, than being forced into one extreme, than the other.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So by "teen flicks" you mean... Morrowind, for example? There were no vampirism stages there. I don't remember how it was in Daggerfall, but I checked a UESP article and there's nothing about stages, too.
The whole "the more you feed, the weaker (and more "human") you become" makes sense for Cyrodiilic vampires who hide in plain sight. They actually need to be able to pass as mortals in order to survive. It doesnt have to be true for other bloodlines, even the process of transformation can be different - Daggerfall vampires actually had to die in order to transform, while in the later installments you just see weird dreams and them wake up as a vampire, and in ESO we get the gift of vampirism directly from Lamae Bal. These things do not necessarily contradict each other, things can work differently for different kinds of vampires.
The only thing I kinda agree with is the vampire lord form, which looks copy pasted. That part is pretty much just a nostalgia bait.

No, by teen flicks and common and modern vampire fiction, I mean the usual and standard tropes thats popular in today's medium, which includes vampires feeding to grow stronger while also maintaining full aspect of their humanity, and/or keeping themselves handsome/beautiful/pretty.

It's a system wherein there are literally no weaknesses to feeding, but only positives, wherein TES Skyrim and Oblivion, with their stages, have strengths and weaknesses to both aspects of the extreme spectrum, a duality that balances the vampire.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily contradict each other, since Zenimax can and will change lore, but it is by all intent and purpose a retcon of the Noxiphilic Sanguvoria if the suggested changes makes it to live. It is in my eyes, a woefully unnecessary retcon, that doesn't actually need to happen.

They can keep all the cool new powers, and the cool new way of feeding, while still sticking to the tried and true formula of TES Vampirism in regards to your reason and need to feed. It gives us, the players, a reason to move between the stages, rather than being a static "Lets just remain at the highest / lowest stage for all the passive benefits".

It should be dynamic as it was in TES Oblivion and Pre-Dawnguard Skyrim, but this suggestion doesn't make it that.

I don't for one second disregarding that this could just be a unique new bloodline that functions differently, but we know it isn't, because it is Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, and not something new.

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Where did you get that from? In trailers we saw vampires that looked like red-eyed corpses and vampire lords. Neither of these looks like a Twilight type. They also said that they will integrate vampirism into justice system, which means that there will be drawbacks. If they swap stages around, then feeding more will make you monstrous, and that will likely cause problems with guards.
Of course, the whole presentation was kinda vague. But they never said they want to implement Twilight vamps or something, and unless I see patch notes stating that it's the case, I will not believe that.
And let's be honest here, Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is just a "let's trade your healthy skin for 10% magicka regen" thing, it's not like it has some deep lore. I mean, being transformed by the first vampire herself has to be more interesting than that?

I've never disagreed that the current ESO iteration of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria is lacking, for I agree whole heartily that it should've been improved long ago. The current iteration gives the vampire at stage 4 several strengths, without the weaknesses. Unless if you count the monstrous visuals, ofc.

Vampirism should've been integrated with the Justice System from the very beginning, to keep the need and desire to feed so that, as it is true to TES Vampirism, can linger onto their humanity and hide amongst the populous. It would give every single player a definite need to continuously feed if they wish to interact with the game and its world.

A simple scroll throughout this chat, and generally speaking ESO's forum, will easily showcase the masses of individuals whom wants every strength Vampirism has to offer, without a single drawback, be it in form of ghastly visuals (which is a good drawback for a famished creature of the night, and thus the difficulties in society it should bring along with the justice system) or merely the legendary powers of the Volkihar's Vampire Lord Form.

The new system, at least from how I heard it during the livestream, appears to directly cater to that majority - a majority who doesn't want to be a vampire from the Elder Scrolls, but a vampire from popular, modern fiction.

I'll state once again, that I would never have minded that this been a solely new bloodline, since that indeed would make complete sense. But as it stands, its a retcon, not only of Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, yet the logical and gradual descend of the vampires monstrous nature with the stages.

My character is an ghastly famished vampire, yet following this update, he'll be a pretty boi famished vampire, and I despise that change, because there is no logical reason for vampires keeping their shrine and perfect looks through starvation.

Vampires in TES hasn't really fueled their magical powers by drinking blood, yet ensured the longevity of their humanity, their vessels ability to mask themselves amongst civil society. This upcoming change completely turns that entire concept on its head, and frankly ruins it.

marvel_bound

Hast it always been established that there a different types of vampires so isnt it possible somewhere in the world at some point in time there are vampires who get stronger when they feed. Why are you so pressed the DLC didnt even come out yet so you know nothing

TheFM

Mettaricana wrote: »

This whole game goes against 90% of the lore established just blame a dragon break and move on in your life..

Aside from the mounts it does not, there is barely anything written about this era. Lore changes, move on. Even them, in a land where you can change someone into a chicken at the flick of a wrist, it isn't so outlandish that you have mounts enchanted with illusion spells to look a certain way.