TequilaFire wrote: »Well maybe you should just ignore them, they will get bored and move on.
They accomplished their objective to aggro and keep your group busy from doing anything else.
TequilaFire wrote: »You would be surprised how much faster those tanky builds go down if someone interrupts and bashes said tank while others do damage.
These builds literally can ignore stuns.
TequilaFire wrote: »Well maybe you should just ignore them, they will get bored and move on.
They accomplished their objective to aggro and keep your group busy from doing anything else.
I agree in towers at resources. But you can't leave them in keeps.
I assume most people commenting here it is a L2P issue, since tanks shouldn't be easy to kill, didn't read more than the title.
OP is refering to those with high sustain, slippery AF, tower/rock/tree circlers, ultra hardcore parcour pros with a *** load of burst dmg. Those are not tank builds. And i totaly understand the frustration of OP here, since all those players do is run away, until they got their ulti ready, then pull off their burst combo, and again run around the rock.
@nk125x as i already mentioned, those are not tank builds. They have sustain and high damage. Mostly stam chars. Their Nr.1 defence is to block the line of sight so you can't use a skill on them. Combined with dodge rolling and HoT (vigor). If you don't want to ignore them completely, (which is a good option) the best way to counter this playstile is to get in open field.
If you chase such a player don't waste all your resources in atempt to cause damage (place your DoTs on them and let them run). Don't run, spare your stamina. Always keep up your defence and be prepaired for his approach (mostly the moment you come up the stairs, in a smal gap between rocks ect). Avoid getting stuned by blocking, outheal/ shield / block his damage. As soon as his aproach failed, counter him. Stun, dots, ulti, execute. (more or less)
No need to nerf a specific playstile, though i don't like them either.
Here have some footage of the curent PvP meta playstyle:
The “UnKillable Tank” is a byproduct of CP
Everyone saw the power creep coming when CP was introduced, but ZoS didn’t believe it. A couple years later, seeing an insane power creep in effect, ZoS puts a cap on CP but allowed for an increase in the cap with every major patch. And a couple years after that, they stopped increasing the cap altogether.
Now they’re scrambling to figure out what to do with CP.
The whole thing is laughable.
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »People were dying to bleed dmg, oblivion dmg and defiles... So forums were like: NERF THOSE BECOUSE THEY KILL ME...
Well it just so happens that bleed dmg, WW, oblivion dmg, defile... were direct counter to tanks...
To me this is hilarious. Becouse people complain now that they dont have caunters to tanks...
Well maybe, just maybe if you (you as if the forum nerf-callers) did not "call for nerfs" this much you could still use those ?
Anyway, this is how short-sighted aproach and blindly calling for nerfs ends. With a broken combat-ecosystem...
You really need more agrees, because you're spot on. Nobody who cries for nerfs actually cares about balance, and anybody who says they do is lying. Everybody crying for nerfs only care about two things -- who they can kill, and who kills them. Ideally, they want the first as high as possible, the second as low as possible, and won't stop crying for nerfs until both conditions are satisfied.
This is the 1st time I have suggested a nerf - Was dead against this round of nerfs because dots provided a way to kill these builds. I would gladly take a rewind of the damage nerfs.
We're in a situation where damage has been nerfed to hell, No downside to wearing heavy armor and healing is as strong as ever. The number of these players is increasing. Eventually every stam player will be one - Fights will last hours without any deaths.
Last night I was in a raid (all players long time pvp'ers) we took a yellow keep and literally we spent 15 minutes killing 2 reds who's sneaked in, with a sole purpose to play ring a ring of roses in one of the corner towers. Firstly I would like to know what fun they got out of it. I can only assume they are spotty teenagers with a complex about annoying as many people as possible. They def didn't get much AP out of it.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »You would be surprised how much faster those tanky builds go down if someone interrupts and bashes said tank while others do damage.
These builds literally can ignore stuns.
Interrupting their healing is not a stun.
As in my example above
"Last night I was in a raid (all players long time pvp'ers) we took a yellow keep and literally we spent 15 minutes killing 2 reds who's sneaked in, with a sole purpose to play ring a ring of roses in one of the corner towers. Firstly I would like to know what fun they got out of it. I can only assume they are spotty teenagers with a complex about annoying as many people as possible. They def didn't get much AP out of it."
We were doing everything - Interrupts/fears/stuns all were ignored.
These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Because those CHEATERS are killing this game. You're still afraid of their opinion? XD
It's unwise to lose most players for a few people.
So many players left Cyrodiil because of those people. ZOS still keeps turning a blind eye? XD
Because those CHEATERS are killing this game. You're still afraid of their opinion? XD
It's unwise to lose most players for a few people.
So many players left Cyrodiil because of those people. ZOS still keeps turning a blind eye? XD
Cheaters = animation cancelers
Yep that totally checks out /s
If ZOS doesn't want to remove animation cancel, maybe they can make a build-in macro key for everyone. Let everyone can do the same thing and play the game fairly.
Bloodraven187 wrote: »@Gravord, not sure where you are getting this from. A: I have you to actually die to an ult more than once every 20-30 opponents, and get worn down light attacks and ability use. B: Ulti's are stronger than other abilities because they are something you have to build to, and the stronger the ulti the more it costs and less frequently you can use it. If you nerf the damage by 30% that brings them down out of the ultimate category and puts them in the regular abilities, so what you are really asking for here is that they eliminate all ultimates period. Not going to happen, so don't bother asking. C: ability linking, the 3-hit combo you're talking about, is part of the game as a whole, and can be done with any 3 damage abilities from the right attacker to the right defender, ultimate or not. I've both done it and seen it done before. People who can link abilities intelligently and fluidly aren't baddies they are what are called good players. And this is as true in PVE as it is in PVP.
Bloodraven187 wrote: »@Gravord, not sure where you are getting this from. A: I have you to actually die to an ult more than once every 20-30 opponents, and get worn down light attacks and ability use. B: Ulti's are stronger than other abilities because they are something you have to build to, and the stronger the ulti the more it costs and less frequently you can use it. If you nerf the damage by 30% that brings them down out of the ultimate category and puts them in the regular abilities, so what you are really asking for here is that they eliminate all ultimates period. Not going to happen, so don't bother asking. C: ability linking, the 3-hit combo you're talking about, is part of the game as a whole, and can be done with any 3 damage abilities from the right attacker to the right defender, ultimate or not. I've both done it and seen it done before. People who can link abilities intelligently and fluidly aren't baddies they are what are called good players. And this is as true in PVE as it is in PVP.
No cp Suprise attack 5k (4m range, single target ability), same target hit by Dawnbreaker 10k plus follow up dot (10m range, wide frontal aoe, aoe stun). 30% dmg nerf doesnt put them on regular abilities level mate, not by a long shot. But it eliminates, at least partially, nabbie gameplay i call "ulti or no kill".
And no, casting subtearrean assault, wreck, dawnbreaker, executioner (taking warden for example) is not "skilled gameplay" as so many in ESO would like to believe. Its simple 4 button combo that can be executed by a monkey, not even a well trained one. What bothers me is with such simplistic 4 button "rotation" you can take down anyone easily with so little actual player skills, without investing into offensive build, because ultimate will carry enough.
Bloodraven187 wrote: »@Gravord, not sure where you are getting this from. A: I have you to actually die to an ult more than once every 20-30 opponents, and get worn down light attacks and ability use. B: Ulti's are stronger than other abilities because they are something you have to build to, and the stronger the ulti the more it costs and less frequently you can use it. If you nerf the damage by 30% that brings them down out of the ultimate category and puts them in the regular abilities, so what you are really asking for here is that they eliminate all ultimates period. Not going to happen, so don't bother asking. C: ability linking, the 3-hit combo you're talking about, is part of the game as a whole, and can be done with any 3 damage abilities from the right attacker to the right defender, ultimate or not. I've both done it and seen it done before. People who can link abilities intelligently and fluidly aren't baddies they are what are called good players. And this is as true in PVE as it is in PVP.
No cp Suprise attack 5k (4m range, single target ability), same target hit by Dawnbreaker 10k plus follow up dot (10m range, wide frontal aoe, aoe stun). 30% dmg nerf doesnt put them on regular abilities level mate, not by a long shot. But it eliminates, at least partially, nabbie gameplay i call "ulti or no kill".
And no, casting subtearrean assault, wreck, dawnbreaker, executioner (taking warden for example) is not "skilled gameplay" as so many in ESO would like to believe. Its simple 4 button combo that can be executed by a monkey, not even a well trained one. What bothers me is with such simplistic 4 button "rotation" you can take down anyone easily with so little actual player skills, without investing into offensive build, because ultimate will carry enough.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Bloodraven187 wrote: »@Gravord, not sure where you are getting this from. A: I have you to actually die to an ult more than once every 20-30 opponents, and get worn down light attacks and ability use. B: Ulti's are stronger than other abilities because they are something you have to build to, and the stronger the ulti the more it costs and less frequently you can use it. If you nerf the damage by 30% that brings them down out of the ultimate category and puts them in the regular abilities, so what you are really asking for here is that they eliminate all ultimates period. Not going to happen, so don't bother asking. C: ability linking, the 3-hit combo you're talking about, is part of the game as a whole, and can be done with any 3 damage abilities from the right attacker to the right defender, ultimate or not. I've both done it and seen it done before. People who can link abilities intelligently and fluidly aren't baddies they are what are called good players. And this is as true in PVE as it is in PVP.
No cp Suprise attack 5k (4m range, single target ability), same target hit by Dawnbreaker 10k plus follow up dot (10m range, wide frontal aoe, aoe stun). 30% dmg nerf doesnt put them on regular abilities level mate, not by a long shot. But it eliminates, at least partially, nabbie gameplay i call "ulti or no kill".
And no, casting subtearrean assault, wreck, dawnbreaker, executioner (taking warden for example) is not "skilled gameplay" as so many in ESO would like to believe. Its simple 4 button combo that can be executed by a monkey, not even a well trained one. What bothers me is with such simplistic 4 button "rotation" you can take down anyone easily with so little actual player skills, without investing into offensive build, because ultimate will carry enough.
This is all about broken knockbacks/fear/double cc (like streak into DBoS) etc... I guess when (if) ZOS manages to fix this cc-break issues, it will be whole new world in term of builds, because it will be much harder to kill players in few GCD without investing everything into damage.
Over the last few weeks my friends and I are running into this build more and more often. I bet all of you have seen the tank that takes 10+ people over 5 mins to kill. How can this be right. You know you are about to face one, when they sprint into a tower as its been flipped by another alliance or rush into a keep and again head for a corner tower even though their alliance is not involved in the fight. You then end up chasing them in a boring game of ring a ring of roses, immune to stuns or damage. God help you if you become the target of their "macro" burst (Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) - that all seam to hit at the same time). Look at your death reports, I bet the majority look similar to this.
@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , Anyone in the combat team, please go to a museum and try on some heavy Armour and pick up a 2H weaapon and try to swing it. Yes it does huge damage but is slow, and the weight of the armor makes you slow.
These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Also ZOS please implement a macro detection system, how can some of these people get their burst ((Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) all to hit at the same time. In PC EU there is a group of them from the yellows and reds running around together (And yes there will be blues too) - But my friends and I keep running into this group and they all are running the same macro.