Bloodraven187 wrote: »These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Ok here are a few counters to your 'suggestions'
For Heavy armor:
1: tanks, and everyone for that matter, relies on resistances in all combat, especially PVE endgame. Nerfing resistances like you suggest will make end game literally impossible to survive much less clear. So, in a word, NO.
2: Show me what offensive passives you see in heavy armor, because there aren't any. Sustain, yes. Offense, not a one.
3: Properly designed and fitted full plate allows you to do somersaults in, I've seen it done. If you can't move in armor then it becomes useless. So before suggesting someone else do something you might want to do it yourself.
For 2H weapons:
1: I've actually used them myself in real life. You're wrong. Again, if the movement is too slow it a: has no damage behind it, and b: is too easy to avoid, thereby making it useless.
2: There is only 1 channeled ability in the tree, so what would be the point? You can be interrupted or cc'd during the heavy swing as it is.
Generals changes:
1: That goes back to affecting PVE. And the healing you are getting is not coming from either the 2-hand or heavy armor trees at all. The minuscule amount you get from heavy armor is in the constitution passive only, and that is only a % of base passive healing, nothing active. Basically making tanks able to recover hp faster since they have so much more of it.
And before you go and say the stereotypical 'just make things work differently in pvp and pve' are you skilled, qualified and have time enough for writing an entirely new set of combat mechanics code yourself? If not then don't waste your breath. Because that is what it would take. And if you think the game has performance issues now imagine how much more nightmarish it would be with 2 separate sets of code running at the same time.
@nk125x If 2h gets nerfed what are we supposed to use???? Ask first if other things need to be buffed, not everything needs a nerf. 2h is not Overpowered, considering they just took away the hardest ability to land on your opponents stun and 16% of its damage?? come on
Over the last few weeks my friends and I are running into this build more and more often. I bet all of you have seen the tank that takes 10+ people over 5 mins to kill. How can this be right. You know you are about to face one, when they sprint into a tower as its been flipped by another alliance or rush into a keep and again head for a corner tower even though their alliance is not involved in the fight. You then end up chasing them in a boring game of ring a ring of roses, immune to stuns or damage. God help you if you become the target of their "macro" burst (Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) - that all seam to hit at the same time). Look at your death reports, I bet the majority look similar to this.
@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , Anyone in the combat team, please go to a museum and try on some heavy Armour and pick up a 2H weaapon and try to swing it. Yes it does huge damage but is slow, and the weight of the armor makes you slow.
These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Also ZOS please implement a macro detection system, how can some of these people get their burst ((Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) all to hit at the same time. In PC EU there is a group of them from the yellows and reds running around together (And yes there will be blues too) - But my friends and I keep running into this group and they all are running the same macro.
@nk125x If 2h gets nerfed what are we supposed to use???? Ask first if other things need to be buffed, not everything needs a nerf. 2h is not Overpowered, considering they just took away the hardest ability to land on your opponents stun and 16% of its damage?? come on
Howabout duel wield, etc.... The fact that you and all stam users are using 2H weapons means they aint balanced with other weapons
@nk125x If 2h gets nerfed what are we supposed to use???? Ask first if other things need to be buffed, not everything needs a nerf. 2h is not Overpowered, considering they just took away the hardest ability to land on your opponents stun and 16% of its damage?? come on
Howabout duel wield, etc.... The fact that you and all stam users are using 2H weapons means they aint balanced with other weapons
@nk125x If 2h gets nerfed what are we supposed to use???? Ask first if other things need to be buffed, not everything needs a nerf. 2h is not Overpowered, considering they just took away the hardest ability to land on your opponents stun and 16% of its damage?? come on
Howabout duel wield, etc.... The fact that you and all stam users are using 2H weapons means they aint balanced with other weapons
Yea , but is it that 2h is overpowered or is DW underpowered? Ive used both, DW takes more stam and deals less damage. 2h does not need a nerf, DW just needs to be upgraded to be on the same level. DW sucks in PvP
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »You would be surprised how much faster those tanky builds go down if someone interrupts and bashes said tank while others do damage.
These builds literally can ignore stuns.
Interrupting their healing is not a stun.
As in my example above
"Last night I was in a raid (all players long time pvp'ers) we took a yellow keep and literally we spent 15 minutes killing 2 reds who's sneaked in, with a sole purpose to play ring a ring of roses in one of the corner towers. Firstly I would like to know what fun they got out of it. I can only assume they are spotty teenagers with a complex about annoying as many people as possible. They def didn't get much AP out of it."
We were doing everything - Interrupts/fears/stuns all were ignored.
The real question here is why would 10+ players waste over 5 minutes of their time trying to kill 1 tanky build? Sounds about as much fun as beating your head against the wall.
TequilaFire wrote: »You would be surprised how much faster those tanky builds go down if someone interrupts and bashes said tank while others do damage.
Over the last few weeks my friends and I are running into this build more and more often. I bet all of you have seen the tank that takes 10+ people over 5 mins to kill. How can this be right. You know you are about to face one, when they sprint into a tower as its been flipped by another alliance or rush into a keep and again head for a corner tower even though their alliance is not involved in the fight. You then end up chasing them in a boring game of ring a ring of roses, immune to stuns or damage. God help you if you become the target of their "macro" burst (Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) - that all seam to hit at the same time). Look at your death reports, I bet the majority look similar to this.
@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , Anyone in the combat team, please go to a museum and try on some heavy Armour and pick up a 2H weaapon and try to swing it. Yes it does huge damage but is slow, and the weight of the armor makes you slow.
These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Also ZOS please implement a macro detection system, how can some of these people get their burst ((Dizzying Swing - Heavy Attack - Onslaught - Executioner) all to hit at the same time. In PC EU there is a group of them from the yellows and reds running around together (And yes there will be blues too) - But my friends and I keep running into this group and they all are running the same macro.
Emma_Overload wrote: »I assume most people commenting here it is a L2P issue, since tanks shouldn't be easy to kill, didn't read more than the title.
OP is refering to those with high sustain, slippery AF, tower/rock/tree circlers, ultra hardcore parcour pros with a *** load of burst dmg. Those are not tank builds. And i totaly understand the frustration of OP here, since all those players do is run away, until they got their ulti ready, then pull off their burst combo, and again run around the rock.
@nk125x as i already mentioned, those are not tank builds. They have sustain and high damage. Mostly stam chars. Their Nr.1 defence is to block the line of sight so you can't use a skill on them. Combined with dodge rolling and HoT (vigor). If you don't want to ignore them completely, (which is a good option) the best way to counter this playstile is to get in open field.
If you chase such a player don't waste all your resources in atempt to cause damage (place your DoTs on them and let them run). Don't run, spare your stamina. Always keep up your defence and be prepaired for his approach (mostly the moment you come up the stairs, in a smal gap between rocks ect). Avoid getting stuned by blocking, outheal/ shield / block his damage. As soon as his aproach failed, counter him. Stun, dots, ulti, execute. (more or less)
No need to nerf a specific playstile, though i don't like them either.
Here have some footage of the curent PvP meta playstyle:
This is the best explanation. Heavy armor doesn't even really have anything to do with the phenomenon that OP is complaining about, although I can imagine that plenty of these guys are wearing it for various reasons.
What irritates me is that this annoying playstyle is so much more effective than anything a magicka build can do in light armor. There was a brief moment in ESO history when this build had a counter: DOTs! But then we all saw how that turned out...all the aggrieved tree huggers rushed to the forums and got the DOTs nerfed. Sigh.
Bloodraven187 wrote: »These are the changes I suggest:
For Heavy Armour
1: Make the resistances act like CP - Deminishing returns from the more you stack
2: Remove all offensive passives from heavy armor. You wear it for protection, At the moment there is no downside for wearing heavy armor.
3: Add a speed penalty for wearing heavy (You try running and in heavy) and/or disallow any gap closers.
For 2H Weapons
1: Yes keep the damage, but make the channel times much longer (In real life, swinging a 2H weapon will take seconds).
2: If hit in channel you become off balanced.
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
Ok here are a few counters to your 'suggestions'
For Heavy armor:
1: tanks, and everyone for that matter, relies on resistances in all combat, especially PVE endgame. Nerfing resistances like you suggest will make end game literally impossible to survive much less clear. So, in a word, NO.
2: Show me what offensive passives you see in heavy armor, because there aren't any. Sustain, yes. Offense, not a one.
3: Properly designed and fitted full plate allows you to do somersaults in, I've seen it done. If you can't move in armor then it becomes useless. So before suggesting someone else do something you might want to do it yourself.
For 2H weapons:
1: I've actually used them myself in real life. You're wrong. Again, if the movement is too slow it a: has no damage behind it, and b: is too easy to avoid, thereby making it useless.
2: There is only 1 channeled ability in the tree, so what would be the point? You can be interrupted or cc'd during the heavy swing as it is.
Generals changes:
1: That goes back to affecting PVE. And the healing you are getting is not coming from either the 2-hand or heavy armor trees at all. The minuscule amount you get from heavy armor is in the constitution passive only, and that is only a % of base passive healing, nothing active. Basically making tanks able to recover hp faster since they have so much more of it.
And before you go and say the stereotypical 'just make things work differently in pvp and pve' are you skilled, qualified and have time enough for writing an entirely new set of combat mechanics code yourself? If not then don't waste your breath. Because that is what it would take. And if you think the game has performance issues now imagine how much more nightmarish it would be with 2 separate sets of code running at the same time.
A lot of heavy haves passives - Affliction - 2nd one increases weapon damage
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »People were dying to bleed dmg, oblivion dmg and defiles... So forums were like: NERF THOSE BECOUSE THEY KILL ME...
Well it just so happens that bleed dmg, WW, oblivion dmg, defile... were direct counter to tanks...
To me this is hilarious. Becouse people complain now that they dont have caunters to tanks...
Well maybe, just maybe if you (you as if the forum nerf-callers) did not "call for nerfs" this much you could still use those ?
Anyway, this is how short-sighted aproach and blindly calling for nerfs ends. With a broken combat-ecosystem...
TequilaFire wrote: »You would be surprised how much faster those tanky builds go down if someone interrupts and bashes said tank while others do damage.
So much this. I can’t remember how many 1vX tower humpers I’ve foiled with a simple hard CC/snare + defile. The way these LOSers take advantage of the broken targeting system, especially when it’s laggy, is borderline exploiting to me.
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »People were dying to bleed dmg, oblivion dmg and defiles... So forums were like: NERF THOSE BECOUSE THEY KILL ME...
Well it just so happens that bleed dmg, WW, oblivion dmg, defile... were direct counter to tanks...
To me this is hilarious. Becouse people complain now that they dont have caunters to tanks...
Well maybe, just maybe if you (you as if the forum nerf-callers) did not "call for nerfs" this much you could still use those ?
Anyway, this is how short-sighted aproach and blindly calling for nerfs ends. With a broken combat-ecosystem...
Short sighted is the perfect description I would use for ur approach that bleeds and oblivion dmg counter the tank meta. And an approach like urs is most definitely a part of that broken combat ecosystem.