Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i just want my argonian's healing done to be doubled as well. It's not fair that all other races have their power based on set bonuses power, and while the set bonus of healing done went from 2% to 4%, argonian remained at 6% instead of 12%, or split it 6% done 6% received idc just give the deserved buff

Exactly what I was saying earlier. The Healing bonus Argonians get from their passives is based on gear set bonus.
Gear set was buffed from 2% to 4%, so it was doubled in effectiveness. Argonias as you too have said also should received
6% -> 12% or 6% +6% splited healing done & received.
#Consistency

Other thoughts:
It is simply weird that a gear set bonus focused on healing (4% healing) is at least twice as weak (or possibly even more) as for example spell / weapon dmg bonus or max stat attribute bonus.

Those increase strength of your skills and also your healing. So If we have a gear set bonus that increase ONLY your healing it should be superior, as it does only that. It does not increase your dmg output.

the healing done bonus is not "twice as weak", read this thread to get a real idea of how strong it is- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/461580/healing-done-is-broken-and-inconsistent if anything, the set bonus might get bumped to 5%. why not ask for 1k stam instead of buffing healing done more for argonians? it would benefit more builds and make argonian stam toons better.

I'd rather have all racial passives removed completely from the game than what OP is proposing.

Either we go for the cosmetic only approach and achieve perfect balance; or we go for distinction, uniqueness and reflection of lore in ingame elements while trying to get as close to balance as possible.

OP's suggestion achieves neither.

The only issues that need to be adressed imo are:

• Altmer's spell recharge passive, because it's only marginally useful and isn't in line with the lore
• Argonian's
  • poison resistance, while well-established in lore, is lacking completely from the game
  • their healing done bonus which needs to be buffed in order to be meaningful and in line with other racial boni
  • as well as their max magicka buffed to make them slightly more viable as a DPS option
• Bosmer's Hunter's Eye passive which is only marginally useful for exactly one type of build in PvP, useless in PvE, lorebreaking as Bosmer are established as a stealthy race and not one that detects people in stealth. Ideally this is what it should look like in my opinion.
  Natural Hunter:

  • Reduces the radius in which enemies can detect you by 3m
  • Adds 750 physical penetration
  • After a dodgeroll increase your movement speed by 10% for 6 seconds.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t mind some races being particularly gifted in magicka or stamina pursuits. And it is after all only one part of the equation and you can make any race any class and role. I have an Altmer tank that I enjoy!

So in my opinion, it is lore friendly as it stands: These races have always had similar bonuses to these in TES games but of course it doesn’t mean that you can’t have a skilled Orsimer mage or Altmer archer.

What isn’t lore friendly is Bosmer having no bonus to stealth. That breaks with long tradition in TES games as well as the replacement passive being pretty useless.

*Edited for typos

Being Lore friendly is having the passives rely more heavily on the constellations than on the race.

OK, Argonians are DISEASE resistant.... not poison resistant. This is backed by the lore...

Xzysts wrote: »

OK, Argonians are DISEASE resistant.... not poison resistant. This is backed by the lore...

As far as I can tell they are immune to diseases and have high resistance to poison, but well... not poison immune.

No.

Keep the races separated passive-wise!


However, I do miss when the passives gave values in percentage rather than flat values

Bumpity bump bump. Pretty please give a little bit of a pvp buff for Khajit.

Tried it and it’s a little too weak. It’s such a waste, Khajit are too cool to not have them be on par with other races.

Just had a thought. Since it’s mainly pvp where crit isn’t normally too high where they need a little help, what about more health or something for tankiness? Won’t effect pve.

All of the races are different. This is the lore of the series. SO, lets not make them all the same, like some have suggested.
For instance, why rip away all lore based on these races? Elves have an affinity for magicka, why should they have weapon dmg, stamina affinity or something or another? Nords, have always been the hearty race of the Elder Scrolls, exposed to the extreme colds of Skyrim, so they have frost resist, resistance, and health... Why would we give nords magic affinity? Argonians have its passives made up yes, but they have Disease Immunity, just like in the lore, as well as water-breathing. Orc is a savage brute race of warriors, they have weapon dmg, sprint speed, etc SO WHY SHOULD WE GIVE ORC THE ABILITY TO BREATH UNDERWATER WHEN IT IS AGAINST THE LORE? All jokes aside, just play what race you want, the difference is very minimal between all of them. I do think Khajiit could use something better, but Argonian is fine the way it is. Wood Elf is just fine too. Redguard could use a little bit of love maybe. Other than that they are all fine.

@BlueRaven They have it wrong, wow. Disease Immunity has always been one of their traits. For instance it is said that during the 2nd Era Imperial Armies could not colonize locations in Black Marsh due to the poisonous swamp, this poison RESIST is true, but their disease immunity is back in lore as well as being such because a race of Dog-men called Lilmothiit went extinct to a disease as well as many other creatures, that only the argonians did not succumb too. I imagine they should have probably give Argonian poison resist but life immunity to disease also then.

@Xzysts The only thing wrong is that ZOS decided Argonians can't be immune/resistant to both anymore, like they used to. Skyrim is the only game where Argonians aren't resistant to poison as even in ESO they had both poison and disease resistance before they changed it. Considering how much lore and quests we have on the topic supporting that Argonians are indeed resistant to poison, we should just give them that resistance back without touching the disease resistance.

And if ZOS is adamant about not allowing Argonians and Bosmer to share resistances, then they at least deserve it more than Bosmer do.
Bosmer have been decimated by the Knahaten flu, which ultimately lead to them joining the Ayrenn's Aldmeri Dominion, while Argonians are 100% immune to the disease.
There is one instance of Bosmer poisoning themselves during war among tribes so that the enemies who would eat the fallen would be poisoned along with them and die, while Argonians have been suriving deadly poisons left and right.

BlueRaven wrote: »

[...]
Bosmers eat rotten meat and drink fermented meat, which is disease ridden, not poisonous.
They won't get a poison resistance from the plants in Valenwood as A) they don't eat plants, and B) they know how to move by them unharmed.
[...]

@BlueRaven I don't wanna be a smartass but I actually do
Technically rotten food can be both disease ridden AND poisonous. Mold for example is poisonous, not a disease. Then again, maybe once something is moldy it's already considered "spoiled" and thus not in accord with the green pact? The other thing is that Bosmer probably eat poisonous animals like poison dart frogs or spiders.
Personally I think that Bosmer should be resistant to both as well, but maybe to a lesser extend as Argonians simply have the better case and track record for it.

Redguards however have never shown any real sign of poison resistance within lore to my knowledge so I'm alright with that being gone

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

[...]
Bosmers eat rotten meat and drink fermented meat, which is disease ridden, not poisonous.
They won't get a poison resistance from the plants in Valenwood as A) they don't eat plants, and B) they know how to move by them unharmed.
[...]

@BlueRaven I don't wanna be a smartass but I actually do
Technically rotten food can be both disease ridden AND poisonous. Mold for example is poisonous, not a disease. Then again, maybe once something is moldy it's already considered "spoiled" and thus not in accord with the green pact? The other thing is that Bosmer probably eat poisonous animals like poison dart frogs or spiders.
Personally I think that Bosmer should be resistant to both as well, but maybe to a lesser extend as Argonians simply have the better case and track record for it.

Redguards however have never shown any real sign of poison resistance within lore to my knowledge so I'm alright with that being gone

Noted!

Icky wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Bumpity bump bump. Pretty please give a little bit of a pvp buff for Khajit.

Tried it and it’s a little too weak. It’s such a waste, Khajit are too cool to not have them be on par with other races.

Just had a thought. Since it’s mainly pvp where crit isn’t normally too high where they need a little help, what about more health or something for tankiness? Won’t effect pve.

One thing I dont understand is how Khajit didnt get the decrease of fall damage and wood elves got it. Whatever happened to cats always landing on their feet? Figured that meant they would be good at jumping and falling.

I'm assuming this is one of the times a khajiit feature doesn't take after normal cats, like their taste for sweets, instead of the features like their appearance that do take after normal cats. I would guess bosmer are naturally better at dealing with falling considering that they traditionally live in trees.

Like half my characters are khajiit and I'd be happier with a passive like increased damage/crit/something from stealth, or increased damage/crit/something from the back. Basically I'd prefer khajiit being a race focused more on their damage affinity rather than stealth, stealth suits bosmer more, especially if the devs are trying to keep 'unique passives' or whatever

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Bumpity bump bump. Pretty please give a little bit of a pvp buff for Khajit.

Tried it and it’s a little too weak. It’s such a waste, Khajit are too cool to not have them be on par with other races.

Just had a thought. Since it’s mainly pvp where crit isn’t normally too high where they need a little help, what about more health or something for tankiness? Won’t effect pve.

One thing I dont understand is how Khajit didnt get the decrease of fall damage and wood elves got it. Whatever happened to cats always landing on their feet? Figured that meant they would be good at jumping and falling.

I'm assuming this is one of the times a khajiit feature doesn't take after normal cats, like their taste for sweets, instead of the features like their appearance that do take after normal cats. I would guess bosmer are naturally better at dealing with falling considering that they traditionally live in trees.

Like half my characters are khajiit and I'd be happier with a passive like increased damage/crit/something from stealth, or increased damage/crit/something from the back. Basically I'd prefer khajiit being a race focused more on their damage affinity rather than stealth, stealth suits bosmer more, especially if the devs are trying to keep 'unique passives' or whatever

Stealth radius can be exchanged only on stealth detection, not on damage

I honestly don't know what this sentence means

In terms of making unique passives that fit with lore and don't overlap between the races, bosmers could have stealth bonuses related to thievery and khajiit could have stealth bonuses related to assassination. The devs can exchange whatever current passives each race has with whatever they want if/when they redo them.

Here is what I think. Given the nature of the alliances former foes or enemies working together to take on another alliance of other races that don't like each other. All looking to control the White Gold Tower to prevent the other alliances from taking control of it. The passives should reflect on the roles they play in their respective alliances plus reflect on their lore as well.

Each alliance for example should have a race that represents the Warrior Thief and Mage.

Thief: Quite a bit squishier than the fighter, though not as much as the mage, thieves get around this weakness by finding ways to avoid being hit in the first place. Their methods of solving problems typically involve sneaking by them. So In essence they would be the type that sneaks by but have more weakness that makes them a bit more squishy.

Warrior: Both offensively-oriented, or a defensive specialist. A physical powerhouse of prodigious strength, the fighter solves problems by dicing or smashing them to bits with mêlèe weapons.

Mage: The Glass Cannon if offensive or Support Party Member if defensive. mages are mighty wielders of arcane or divine magic, The mage has a tendency to die if enemies look at him funny. This method of solving problems therefore tends to consist of blowing them up before they can get too close, or shaping the battlefield to their benefit. The mage has the ability to take advantage of elemental powers to exploit the enemy's weaknesses, and may also get a number of utility powers to bypass the stickiest situations.

Each alliance should have unique strengths and weaknesses. When it comes to their racial strengths and weaknesses. That makes each alliance stand out.
Ebenheart Pact
Their unique strength is their resilience and resistance to the Elements. Dunmer are resistant to fire, Nords Resistant to Cold and Argionions very resistant to poison while being strongly resistant to disease and maybe even physical damage do to their scales. So their advantage is their resilience that makes them harder to take off the battlefield then the other races.

How passives would look
Dunmer, Thief- Supportive Dps, bonus in duel wielding Daggers and fire damage plus fire resistance. Main Stat Stamina, Secondary Stat Magicka. Their strength their resistance to fire the most commonly form of magic and damage Fire. Passives Inspired by Vivec and Sothia Sil.

Argonions, Mage- Tank and Healer, bonus Restoration Staff healing. The Most Resilient of the races. Their passives should reflect on how resilient the Argonions are to Stamina effects and the best race to counteract stamina power. Something Unique to them. Making them the most defensive support among the races. Main Stat Magicka, Secondary Stat Heath. Passive Inspiration-Their Homeland and The Tree Menders of Blackmarsh

Nords - Warrior Dps Offensive and Defensive. Bonus Two Handed Damage and secondary Sword and Shield as well as a Bonus to Medium Armor, and resistance to frost. Weaker then Orcs when it comes to defensive but better Defense then Khajiit. Main Stat Stamina followed by Health. Inspiration for the Passives The Companions and Nordic Culture.


Aldemeri Dominion

Altmer Bosmer and Khajiit. The Dominions Strength is its unity. Though the races are not as Resilient their ability to get along better makes them more united then the other two alliances. I'd say their strength would be resources and skill. Bosmer Stealth and skills with the bow, the Khajiits clever thinking and and Altmers magical talents.Would make up the strengths of the Dominion. Their weakness is the Dominions Refusal to allow the Wood Orcs to fight for them leaving them without Tanky Support and lack the Defensive capability of the Orcs one of the Strengths of the Covenant. At least when it comes to Racial passives.
Altmer-Mage Dps and Healer, the should reflect their powerful connection to Magic and also their ability to support their allies, making them great at glass canon magical dps, or other supportive roles. They should gain a bonus to Destruction staff and Restoration staff damage. Main Stat Magicka. Passive Inspiration, their affinity for magic being the most powerful of all the other races and their cultural affinity for it.

Bosmer- Thief Supportive Dps, Bonus to Bow Damage and Stealth as well as a 5 percent pick pocketing bonus . Passives should be based on their affinity for hiding out in the bushes and the trees and also the training they undergo as children when it comes to the bow. Making them the best supportive range dps and thieves of all the races. Main Stat Stamina. Passive Inspiration based on the Rite of Theft and the Bosmer Green Pact Culture.

Khajiit-Warrior Dps bonus to Two Handed, Duel wielding damage and bonus to sprint as well as Stealth Detection and reduced fall damage. passives should reflect their natural affinity with their cat like reflex's even though they are great at sneaking and thieving those passives should go to the bosmer as the khajiit I think would be better suited as the warriors. Main Stats, Stamina Secondary Magicka. Passive Inspiration, their culture and the mainly temples that offer martial arts training.


Daggerfall Covenant
Each of the races are unique and also have been to war with one another several times or at times gang up on the orcs. But united they bring about a very interesting dynamic each race bringing their own uniqueness to the table. Bretons bring their noblity, Affinity for magic plus spell resistance and their unique culture filled with Knights as well as many in their homeland skilled with spellcraft. Orcs bring their superior smithing and building skills. Whether it comes to forging armor, building forts, building defensives and also bring about their controlled rages that make them impressive juggernauts along with damage dealers on the field and the Redguards bring about their skills with the sword and also are very great with destruction magic if need be.


Bretons- Mage Dps/Healing/tanking. They are a unique culture mixed with many different backgrounds from mages to warriors they can be skilled at both. This is reflected in their unique mix of mer and man as well as the many knightly orders as well as their impressive talent towards magic. From Knights to Witches. They can feel either role. Bonus to Spell resistance, Destruction Staff damage. Restoration staff healing and Sword and Shield Damage. Passive Inspiration, The unique dynamic of Knights and Witches along with Mages and spellcasters within the land of Highrock.

Orcs-Warrior Tank/Dps bonus to Sword and Shield, Secondary Bonus to Two Handled and Bonus to Heavy Armor, Siege damage Resistance along with bonus damage when the orc uses a Siege Damage. Orcs are the most impressive when it comes to making stuff that not only lasts but also make sure it does last. Their strongholds and forts, Cities very hard to crack. Orcs are not just barbarains but also skilled with surviving. Being the most Hardy of Races they are fierce loyal and Honorable. Not only do they make the best weapons and armor that is built to last they build the best defenses that make it very hard to seige their strongholds and cities . So the passives should reflect on that. Not only making them resistant to seige but also great at Sieging. Able to see weakspots and exploit them. Thus showing the reason why Bretons and Redguards fear them rebuilding Orsinium. Main Stat Health Secondary Stat Stamina. The Passives would be inspired by the various seiges of Orsinum plus their ability to survive them.

Redguards- Thief Supportive Dps. Bonus to Duel wielding longswords, and destruction staff.
Redguard Culture is very warrior like but in the roles they support of the Covenant they should feel the role of the thief. passives should reflect on their skills with the sword plus their affinity to destruction magic even though they themselves don't like magic all that much. Main Stat Stamina. Passives inspired by Redguard Sailors and the respect Redguards at least have for destructive magic.

The Outlier
Imperials-Warrior, Mage, Thief, Increased experience in all skilllines, plus bonus in sword and shield, Restoration staff and Destruction staff. Bonus for Class abilties. Their passives should be based on how the Imperials have time after time managed to convince but also conquer provinces and add them into their empire. Their skills should be reflected on their jack of all trades approach to things. Their passives should be inspired by their ability to field the best trained warriors and battlemages within their legions. Main Stats, Stamina and Magicka, Secondy stat Health. Passive Inspiration The Imperial Legion and their ability to raise up Empires.



Just a general idea without going to much into explaining mechanics of how it should have been done maybe. I do think passives should not only be based on the lore of the race but also their role they preform best at for their respective alliance. Does not mean they are always that role just their racials or experience allows them to fill those roles better. Also the racials should be good enough that it makes all the races viable or made so the racials don't matter as much but add extra flavor to them.