Healing Done is Broken and Inconsistent

twing1_

***UPDATE***
On PTS, set bonuses to healing done have been adjusted to 4%, however the ritual mundus stone and the powered weapon trait still remain at 10% and 9%, respectively. These values need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the set bonus to healing done (~7.4%) to bring them in line with the other mundus stones and weapon traits in order to resolve the inconsistency.

This post is in regards to the 2-4 pc item set bonus, 2% healing done, being both completely outclassed by the 2-4 pc item set bonus of 129 spell damage in all realistic scenarios and also wildly inconsistent in terms of its relationship to its corresponding mundus stone, the ritual, and weapon trait, powered, when compared to similar 2-4 pc item set bonuses and their respective mundus stones and weapon traits.

TL;DR

The 2-4 pc item set bonus, 2% healing done, is mathematically inferior to the 2-4 pc item set bonus of 129 spell damage in all realistic scenarios, in all aspects (including boosting the user's healing done, ironically). Furthermore, neither the healing done mundus stone (the ritual) nor the healing done weapon trait (powered) share the same 1.85x relationship all other mundus and weapon traits share with their corresponding 2-4 pc item set bonuses. Nor are these two healing done resources weighted at the same value, as all other mundus stones and their related weapon traits are.

To remedy this, two possible options come to mind.

Option 1:
The 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done should be bumped up to 4% healing done to better match it's healing received/taken counterparts, and both the ritual mundus stone and the powered weapon trait should be adjusted to 1.85x of this value, or 7.4% healing done.

Option 2:
Alternatively, the 2-4 pc item set bonus can be reverse engineered from the current ritual mundus stone. This would result in the 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done being valued at 5.4%, and would require both that the powered weapon trait be brought up to speed with the ritual mundus (to 10% healing done), and also that the 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing taken and received be boosted to 5.4% to better match their healing done counterpart.

Healing Done vs. Spell Damage

The math:

The healing power of spells can be determined by using the formula for average damage overtime, but slightly modified:

Healing Power = (SpellDamage*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)*HealingDone*(1+CritDamage*CritChance)

Using this as a template, we are able to derive formulas that can be used to calculate the effectiveness of both a set bonus to spell damage and a set bonus to healing done.

Spell Damage Set Bonus:

Healing Power = [(SpellDamage*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)+129*%modifiers*10.5]*HealingDone*(1+CritDamage*CritChance)

Healing Done Set Bonus:

Healing Power = (SpellDamage*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)*(HealingDone+.02)*(1+CritDamage*CritChance)

By setting these two equations equal to each other, we are able to solve for the breakpoint at which a set bonus to healing done equals the exact value of a set bonus to spell damage in terms of healing done:

[(SD*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)+129*%modifiers*10.5]*HealingDone*(1+CHD*CHC) = (SD*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)*(HealingDone+.02)*(1+CHD*CHC)

The critical multipliers cancel out, so we are left with:

[(SD*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)+129*%modifiers*10.5]*HealingDone=(SD*%modifiers*10.5+MaxMag*%modifiers)*(HealingDone+.02)

By filling in some variables, we are able to solve for an exact value of spell damage at which the healing value of 2% healing done is equivalent to the healing value of 129 spell damage. In order to do this, however, we must make some assumptions. These assumptions will be made off of the stats of most endgame healer builds. They are as follows:
-Major Sorcery for 20% spell damage
-Max cp increase for 20% max magicka
-Minor mending for 8% healing done
-30k max mag (as this a benchmark for most healers)

Filling these in, we are left with:

[(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)+129*1.2*10.5]*1.08=(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)*1.1

(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)+129*1.2*10.5=(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)*1.0185

129*1.2*10.5=.0185*(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)

1625.4=.0185*(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)

87771.600=SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2

51771.600=SpellDamage*1.2*10.5

4108.857=SpellDamage

So, given our assumptions, we have determined that at 4,108.857 spell damage, the addition of 2% healing done adds the equivalent healing value of the addition of 129 spell damage. If a healer has more spell damage than this, 2% healing done will out-perform 129 spell damage. If a healer has less than this amount of spell damage, however, 129 spell damage will add a larger bonus to healing than 2% healing done.

Assuming that a healer is running major sorcery, receiving the full benefit of the cp increase to max resources, running minor mending, and has 30k max magicka, the spell damage required on a build to allow a 2% healing done set bonus to perform on the same level as a 129 spell damage set bonus is around ~4109. Any more spell damage than this would give the advantage to the healing done set bonus, but any less spell damage would give the advantage to the spell damage set bonus.

The problem? The 4,000 spell damage mark is very nearly impossible to obtain for healers, so in almost all realistic scenarios healers are better off running 129 spell damage over 2% healing done if they want to increase their healing. But not only does 129 spell damage provide more healing power, it also provides more damage to their damage dealing abilities. So why would anybody run 2% healing done if it would result in both less healing potential and also less damage than a generic spell damage bonus?

Given the very specialized nature of healing done in comparison to the more general use of spell damage, it seems only fitting that bonuses to healing done provide a larger benefit to healing abilities than bonuses to spell damage. Currently, this is not the case, as bonuses to spell damage provide a larger benefit to both healing abilities and damage abilities. Spell damage is getting the best of both worlds.

It is important to note, however, that bonuses to healing done do affect proc heals (from item sets like briarheart/earthgore and things like crit surge on sorcs and siphoning attacks on nb) while spell damage does not. This is the lone advantage healing done holds over spell damage, and it is so niche and miniscule that it does not provide enough of a benefit to compete with bonuses to spell damage.

The Mundus Stone Dilemma

Even more concerning is the inconsistency between 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing done and the ritual mundus. All other mundus stones give a benefit equal to about ~1.85 2-4 pc item set bonuses:

2028 magicka = 1.85*1096 magicka
238 spell damage = 1.85*129 spell damage
238 magicka recovery = 1.85*129 magicka recovery
7% critical chance = 1.85*3.8% critical chance (833 weapon critical)

But when it comes to the ritual mundus and healing done, the numbers are far off:

10% healing done = 5*2% healing done

Further inconsistency arises when you consider the powered weapon trait. In all other cases in which a weapon trait grants a similar bonus to a mundus stone, the 2h weapon trait value exactly mirrors the mundus value.

The thief=7% crit chance, 2h precise=7% crit chance
The lady=2752 resistance, 2h defending=2752 resistance
The lover=2752 penetration, 2h sharpened=2752 penetration

But the ritual grants 10% healing done and the 2h powered trait only offers 9%.

So what gives? Something definitely seems off about this item set bonus.

What should be done?

Probably the easiest solution would be to work backward from either the ritual mundus or the 2h powered trait to reverse engineer a more appropriate 2-4 pc item set bonus.

Let's look at the ritual mundus first. Doing this would yield ~5.4% healing done as a proper 2-4 pc item set bonus:

10%/1.85=~5.4%

But this seems like a pretty wonky number. Let's take a look at the 2h powered trait.

9%/1.85=~4.8%

This too isn't a very clean number.

Perhaps, then, we can double check which value of these is the better fit by also looking at 5 pc item set bonuses that grant bonuses to healing done. We already know from 5 pc item set bonuses like hundings rage that 5 pc bonuses are typically worth ~2.31 2-4 pc item set bonuses (299 weapon damage/129 weapon damage=2.31).

But there are no 5 pc bonuses that give a flat bonus to healing done, outside of healers habit which is a peculiar case because it grants a minor/major buff in minor mending, and not a flat bonus to healing done. Furthermore, reverse engineering a 2-4 pc item set bonus from this 5 pc bonus yields a different number: ~3.4%.

This supports neither the value the ritual mundus suggests nor the one the powered trait denotes. But, as mentioned earlier, I am skeptical of the accuracy of this 5 pc set bonus because it grants a minor/major buff (and potentially frees up a skill slot) and not a regular flat bonus to healing done. Perhaps their are other similar 5 pc item set bonuses that we can consider.

No other 5 pc bonuses provide healing done, but one does provide healing received to all group members, which is comparable to healing done because it effectively provides the same bonus to your healing abilities as a bonus to healing done would. This set is the sanctuary set. The 5 pc bonus is as follows: increases healing received by 12% for you and your group members within 10 meters of you.

Now this isn't the cleanest comparison either, as this is a conditional proc set (group must be within 10 m of you). We do know, however, that the values of conditional proc sets can be increased by up to 25% of a more regular 5 pc item set bonus, resulting in 5 pc bonuses of this type typically being valued at ~2.8875 2-4 set pc bonuses. What do we get when we reverse engineer a healing done 2-4 pc item set bonus from the sanctuary 5 pc?

12%/2.8875=~4.15% healing done.

This adds up with neither the ritual mundus stone, nor the powered weapon trait, nor the healer's habit 5 pc bonus and only further contributes to the inconsistencies regarding healing done.

By comparing all of these different values, however, I feel we are given a general idea of where the healing done 2-4 pc set bonus should be valued at. They all seem to be bouncing around the values of anywhere between 3.4% to 5.4% healing done.

This would conceivably make sense, as it fits in line nicely with the similar 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing taken and received, which both grant 4%. We know ZOS likes to re-use numeric values for similar bonuses too, as evidenced by the 2-4 pc item set bonuses to both spell/weapon damage and magicka/stamina recovery each granting a numeric value of 129. Therefore, given that 4% falls within the range of the inconsistencies regarding healing done and also that the current bonuses to healing taken/received grant the same amount, the 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done could very believably be valued at 4%.

But what does the math say? Does it remedy the uselessness of the current 2% bonus to healing done when compared to spell damage and support this notion?

Math:

[(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)+129*1.2*10.5]*1.08=(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)*1.12

(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)+129*1.2*10.5=(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)*1.0370

129*1.2*10.5=.0370*(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)

1625.4=.0370*(SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2)

43885.800=SpellDamage*1.2*10.5+30000*1.2

7885.800=SpellDamage*1.2*10.5

625.857=SpellDamage

This indicates that the break point (when the value of 4% healing done = the value of 129 spell damage) occurs when a build has a total of ~626 spell damage, assuming they are running major sorcery, receiving the complete cp increase to max resources, running minor mending, and have 30k max magicka. If a build has more than ~626 spell damage, 4% healing done holds the advantage. If a build has less than this amount of spell damage, 129 spell damage holds the advantage.

Given that even just equipping a cp160 weapon of any type grants more than this amount of spell damage, it is safe to say that bumping the 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done upwards to the value of 4% healing done would allow this bonus to provide more healing done than a similar bonus to spell damage in all realistic scenarios. The bonus of 129 spell damage, however, would still hold the clear advantage in terms of damage dealing abilities, while also improving the potency of heals (although not as much as healing done would).

Using the same assumptions and formulas as we did earlier (but changing the healing done bonus from 2% to 4%), we find that, strictly in terms of healing abilities, 4% healing done would out-perform 129 spell damage in all realistic scenarios, while 129 spell damage would still offer the clear advantage of improving the potency of damage dealing abilities in addition to a less potent increase in healing. It would seem then that changing the 2% healing done bonus to at the very least 4% healing done would provide a tradeoff between spell damage bonuses and healing done bonuses that is currently not there: if a healer wants to boost their healing power to the highest possible value, 4% healing done would be preferable over 129 spell damage, but if a healer wanted a more general boost to the effectiveness of all of their abilities, 129 spell damage would be chosen at the cost of max healing potential.

This solution seems to solve our problem.

My Proposal

The way I see it, there are two possible solutions to this problem.

Option 1:

The 2-4 pc item set bonus of 2% healing done should be bumped up to 4% healing done to better match its healing received and taken 2-4 pc item set bonus counterparts. Consequently, both the ritual mundus stone and the powered weapon trait should be standardized off of this 4% mark, consistent with how all other mundus stones and weapon traits are valued at 1.85 of their corresponding 2-4 pc item set bonuses. This would result in their values being adjusted to ~7.4% healing done. This would not only give the 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done more viability in comparison to bonuses to spell damage, but also fix the inconsistencies surrounding this bonus regarding the ritual mundus stone and the powered weapon trait.

It would also, however, result in a nerf to both the ritual mundus and also the powered weapon trait.

Option 2:

Alternatively, the 2-4 pc item set bonus can be reverse engineered from the current ritual mundus stone. This would result in the 2-4 pc item set bonus to healing done being valued at 5.4%, and would require both that the powered weapon trait be brought up to speed with the ritual mundus (to 10% healing done), and also that the 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing taken and received be boosted to 5.4% to better match their healing done counterpart.

It is important to note, however, that if this option is chosen, certain 5 pc bonuses to healing received/taken must also be adjusted in order to preserve the current balance of 5 pc bonuses being valued at 2.31 2-4 pc item set bonuses for flat stat bonuses and 2.8875 2-4 pc item set bonuses for conditional proc bonuses.

Notable 5 pc bonuses that must be adjusted accordingly belong to:
-Sanctuary: 12% -> ~15.6%
-Twilight's Embrace: 10% -> ~12.5%

Tasear

It's same thing on monster set. It's not an effective options on gear

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses (the notable exception being the lady and defending, which imo could use a boost) . If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

what? what does that have to do with anything? there is no rounding. it is just a flat 5% for healing done. and a flat 10% for powered and ritual. with up to 15% for the mundus with 7 divines of course. makes the most sense without nerfing things, like you are asking for. i am not sure what is making you want to nerf things when it would be much simpler and close enough to the rules that zos has stated, the way i state it.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

what? what does that have to do with anything? there is no rounding. it is just a flat 5% for healing done. and a flat 10% for powered and ritual. with up to 15% for the mundus with 7 divines of course. makes the most sense without nerfing things, like you are asking for. i am not sure what is making you want to nerf things when it would be much simpler and close enough to the rules that zos has stated, the way i state it.

5*1.85=9.25, not 10. Rounding 9.25 up to 10 would be rounding.

I'm in favor of nerfing the ritual mundus and powered weapon trait if and only if it means preserving consistency throughout the game. This is because consistency is the foundation of balance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

what? what does that have to do with anything? there is no rounding. it is just a flat 5% for healing done. and a flat 10% for powered and ritual. with up to 15% for the mundus with 7 divines of course. makes the most sense without nerfing things, like you are asking for. i am not sure what is making you want to nerf things when it would be much simpler and close enough to the rules that zos has stated, the way i state it.

5*1.85=9.25, not 10. Rounding 9.25 up to 10 would be rounding.

I'm in favor of nerfing the ritual mundus and powered weapon trait if and only if it means preserving consistency throughout the game. This is because consistency is the foundation of balance.

it is close enough to 10. i dont understand what makes you so obtuse when it comes to that idea. close enough to consistent. much closer then we have right now.

for what it is worth, i am looking at it from the mundus to trait. not from trait to mundas. so, as you said, 10%/1.85=~5.4% and the truncates that to just 5% anyways.


to be clear, i have been beating this horse for a long time, see here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5472362/#Comment_5472362

Also, you do know that the ritual was 5% at one time right? So that whole "Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important" thing goes right out the window. The steed was also 5% movement speed.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

what? what does that have to do with anything? there is no rounding. it is just a flat 5% for healing done. and a flat 10% for powered and ritual. with up to 15% for the mundus with 7 divines of course. makes the most sense without nerfing things, like you are asking for. i am not sure what is making you want to nerf things when it would be much simpler and close enough to the rules that zos has stated, the way i state it.

5*1.85=9.25, not 10. Rounding 9.25 up to 10 would be rounding.

I'm in favor of nerfing the ritual mundus and powered weapon trait if and only if it means preserving consistency throughout the game. This is because consistency is the foundation of balance.

it is close enough to 10. i dont understand what makes you so obtuse when it comes to that idea. close enough to consistent. much closer then we have right now.

for what it is worth, i am looking at it from the mundus to trait. not from trait to mundas. so, as you said, 10%/1.85=~5.4% and the truncates that to just 5% anyways.


to be clear, i have been beating this horse for a long time, see here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5472362/#Comment_5472362

Also, you do know that the ritual was 5% at one time right? So that whole "Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important" thing goes right out the window. The steed was also 5% movement speed.

I apologize for coming across as obtuse. I'm just a stickler for details. I've been known to be very meticulous in this regard.

If the case is that you are working down from 10% for the mundus stone, then the 2-4 pc item set bonus should be 5.4%, as the 7% critical chance mundus stone dictates that the 2-4 pc item set bonus be 3.8% critical chance (833 weapon critical).

I am more on board with the 4% value for the item set bonus only for the reason that it fits more nicely with the current 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing received and taken. I've noticed that this game recycles numeric values a lot. I don't believe it to be a mere coincidence that the 2-4 pc item set bonuses to both weapon/spell damage and magicka/stamina recovery grant a numeric value of 129. I feel this mirroring is intentional, and as such it would make sense for bonuses to healing done to reflect the numeric value (4%) of their healing taken/received counterparts.

Though, to be honest, even these values could probably use a slight bump in effectiveness, as they are largely considered by the player base to be among the most useless set bonuses. It might be better off to bump all three of these bonuses (healing done, taken, and received) to 5.4%, and the ritual mundus and powered trait to 10% healing done after all. I just believe it would be harder to get ZOS to implement these changes, rather than just simply boosting the odd man out, healing done, to match the values of the other two, and then to model the corresponding mundus and weapon trait after this new value.

I've noticed that ZOS takes their sweet time with updates/fixes/improvements, so I believe (maybe incorrectly) that presenting them solutions that require the smallest amount of work on their part have a greater chance of being implemented into the game. I'm just trying to get them to take the first, tiny baby step toward resolving this issue.

Tasear

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

simple. buff healing done trait to 5% and powered to 10%. also do not compare healing done to received. they are different and have different applications.

Weapon traits that have item set bonus equivalents are consistently valued at 1.85 their corresponding set bonuses. If healing done were boosted to 5%, powered would have to be valued at 9.25%.

I propose boosting healing done up to 4% healing done (to bring it in line with its healing received/taken counterparts) and adjusting the value of both the ritual mundus and the powered weapon trait to 7.4% healing done to be consistent with the other item set bonus/mundus and weapon trait ratios.

i think you are thinking too literally and rigidly. 5 and 10 is close enough.

Rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 isn't typically the way MMOs work. Every little calculation is important, especially if it means maintaining consistency with every other stat in the game.

what? what does that have to do with anything? there is no rounding. it is just a flat 5% for healing done. and a flat 10% for powered and ritual. with up to 15% for the mundus with 7 divines of course. makes the most sense without nerfing things, like you are asking for. i am not sure what is making you want to nerf things when it would be much simpler and close enough to the rules that zos has stated, the way i state it.

5*1.85=9.25, not 10. Rounding 9.25 up to 10 would be rounding.

I'm in favor of nerfing the ritual mundus and powered weapon trait if and only if it means preserving consistency throughout the game. This is because consistency is the foundation of balance.

Wouldn't be balanced when healers have to already compete with DPS who slot one heal and call themselves a healer in dps gear. You got to fix other issues before doing things.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@twing1_ honestly I would be fine with 4% but I am totally against lowering the mundus. 9% means that with divines the highest you can get is 13% and since the game floors healing percentages, like damage done percentages, that 1, 4 and 7 divines are useless. It is bad enough that with 10% that 1 divines and 5 are useless.

Really, 5% and 10% just make the most sense.

On this-

. If the case is that you are working down from 10% for the mundus stone, then the 2-4 pc item set bonus should be 5.4%, as the 7% critical chance mundus stone dictates that the 2-4 pc item set bonus be 3.8% critical chance (833 weapon critical).

The 7% comes from precise. The thief was 12% at one time. When they rebalanced then mundai, they lowered the thief and raised precise to 9% and made the set bonuses off that, so 4.8% for a set bonus. Zos determined that this was too much, so they lowered the mundai to precises former 7% and raised the set bonus to the current 3.8%, which was 3.2. it was this this same patch that they raised powered from 7% to 9%.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 7% comes from precise. The thief was 12% at one time. When they rebalanced then mundai, they lowered the thief and raised precise to 9% and made the set bonuses off that, so 4.8% for a set bonus. Zos determined that this was too much, so they lowered the mundai to precises former 7% and raised the set bonus to the current 3.8%, which was 3.2. it was this this same patch that they raised powered from 7% to 9%.

This suggests to me then that perhaps the current iteration of powered is the value ZOS intended to balance healing done around.

This would result in a 2-4 pc item set bonus of 4.86% healing done. Perhaps this should become the new value for healing done, received, and taken and the ritual should adopt powered's 9%.

5% and 10% are nice numbers to work with, but they don't make sense to me because they ignore (albeit ever so slightly) the pre-existing balance between 2-4 pc item set bonuses and mundus stones, that are currently in a 1.85x relationship with one another.

5.4% and 10% would work though. But again, your comment about the most recent changes to powered make me believe that 9% is the more intended value for the ritual.

Either that, or ZOS really has no rhyme or rhythm on the matter.

mocap

my healer can 4200 spell damage.
Nirn front
Infused Berserk back
SPC self buff
Major/Minor sorc (Entropy + Templar passive)
Spell damage rings
Apprentice/Atronach (Twice Born Star. Old school baby )

I even think to add one Kena monster on top.

Tasear

To be honest if they increase mundus and power trait and monster helm instead of decrease it would help make healers competitive when add more ambient damage.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@twing1_ you need to stop putting decimals. The game floors all of them. The game truncates them. The game rounds all non whole percentages down. However you want to look at it. That is just how it works. We are in agreement that healing done needs a buff. Doesn't really matter to me whether it is 4 or 5%. Just change that and I say everything is fine. No need to touch anything else. That is the least Zos could do. Is that the best they could do? No. But it would be light-years better then what we have.

Also keep in mind that we are going back and forth about single digits percentages. Not world ending.

Now that I think about it, a one handed weapon that has powered on it is 4.5%, meaning you only get 4% more healing. Buffing powered to 10% would make this 5%, like they did for swords damage increase, from 2.5% to 3%. 5% and 10% would fix that right up.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@twing1_ you need to stop putting decimals. The game floors all of them. The game truncates them. The game rounds all non whole percentages down. However you want to look at it. That is just how it works. We are in agreement that healing done needs a buff. Doesn't really matter to me whether it is 4 or 5%. Just change that and I say everything is fine. No need to touch anything else. That is the least Zos could do. Is that the best they could do? No. But it would be light-years better then what we have.

Also keep in mind that we are going back and forth about single digits percentages. Not world ending.

Now that I think about it, a one handed weapon that has powered on it is 4.5%, meaning you only get 4% more healing. Buffing powered to 10% would make this 5%, like they did for swords damage increase, from 2.5% to 3%. 5% and 10% would fix that right up.

I knew that in terms of the champion system, the game floored decimals. I didn't know this was the case for all other stats as well.

I could have sworn that critical chance and other similar stats outside of the champion system did not ignore the decimals, but I have not tested this for myself.

If this truly is the case, there is no question that 10% (as opposed to 9%) would be the better value to work around for both the mundus stone and the 2h powered trait, and consequently all 2-4 pc set bonuses to healing done, received, and taken should be bumped up to 5% (floored from 5.4%) healing done.

Though, if this is the case, also bumping just healing done bonuses up to 4% (to leave the healing taken/received unchanged) would yield a mundus value of 7%, that is directly in line with the current thief mundus. This would be a clear nerf, however.

To be honest, I would be okay with either of these options. I will edit the original post later in the day to better reflect my support for bumping up the 2-4 pc set bonuses to healing done/taken/received to 5.4% and adjusting the powered trait to match the current ritual mundus of 10%.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

I could have sworn that critical chance and other similar stats outside of the champion system did not ignore the decimals, but I have not tested this for myself.

i only meant healing done and damage done percentages. this includes critical hit damage, ie the shadow. critical hit chance is actually not a percentage, the game uses an obscure point system behind the scenes, where 219= 1% chance. so still whole numbers.

this only matters to healing done and damage done percentages in the cp system, mundus stones plus divines and one handed weapons, all others are already whole percentage numbers. ZOS has already fixed the swords damage done by upping it to 3% from 2.5%, the same courtesy ought to be applied to powered one handed by upping it to 10%, 5% for a single weapon.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

I could have sworn that critical chance and other similar stats outside of the champion system did not ignore the decimals, but I have not tested this for myself.

i only meant healing done and damage done percentages. this includes critical hit damage, ie the shadow. critical hit chance is actually not a percentage, the game uses an obscure point system behind the scenes, where 219= 1% chance. so still whole numbers.

this only matters to healing done and damage done percentages in the cp system, mundus stones plus divines and one handed weapons, all others are already whole percentage numbers. ZOS has already fixed the swords damage done by upping it to 3% from 2.5%, the same courtesy ought to be applied to powered one handed by upping it to 10%, 5% for a single weapon.

I wonder if precise 1h weapons receive the benefit of the extra .5% critical chance, as the tool tip indicates that they provide 3.5% critical chance and not a numeric value of critical rating.

I've also updated the original post to Alternatively suggest the bump up to 5.4% for 2-4 pc item set bonuses to healing done and a boost to both the powered weapon trait (to 10%) and also the 2-4 pc set bonuses to healing received/taken (to 5.4%) to better match their healing done counterparts.

I am considering recreating this thread, though, as a poll where each of these options are presented as choices for possible solutions to the current problems with healing done.

Edit: before I do this, any last insight/suggestions to the original post would be appreciated. I am considering crunching the numbers for 5.4% healing done (even though this may be rounded down to 5%) and adding it to the body of the original post to better support the alternative option.

BlackMadara

What is the logic behind healing done and healing taken being separate values in 2-4 pc bonuses? It makes sets like Naga rather inefficient. Also, you must take into consideration the different bonuses to healing and sd/wd values. Perhaps these are why ZoS has decided to have healing bonuses be weaker than straight damage, although I'd disagree with that if it was the case.

twing1_

BlackMadara wrote: »

What is the logic behind healing done and healing taken being separate values in 2-4 pc bonuses? It makes sets like Naga rather inefficient. Also, you must take into consideration the different bonuses to healing and sd/wd values. Perhaps these are why ZoS has decided to have healing bonuses be weaker than straight damage, although I'd disagree with that if it was the case.

If anything, the bonuses to weapon/spell damage would make ZOS favor giving a higher value to healing done than spell damage, because spell damage benefits from % modifiers and healing done does not.

My equations in the original post account for all of these bonuses, and clearly show that spell damage is out performing healing done in all regards, even in terms of healing done ironically.

And I don't see any logic in having healing done set bonuses be of a different value than healing received/taken either. That is why both of my proposed solutions standardize the two, to either 4% or 5.4%.

twing1_

Looks like we won guys. Set bonuses to healing done on PTS are now valued at 4%, up from 2%.

I have not received confirmation that the ritual mundus and powered trait have changed value, and I suspect they have not. These likely still need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the new set bonus values.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

twing1_ wrote: »

Looks like we won guys. Set bonuses to healing done on PTS are now valued at 4%, up from 2%.

I have not received confirmation that the ritual mundus and powered trait have changed value, and I suspect they have not. These likely still need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the new set bonus values.

i can confirm that powered is still 9% and ritual is 10%. progress is progress.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Looks like we won guys. Set bonuses to healing done on PTS are now valued at 4%, up from 2%.

I have not received confirmation that the ritual mundus and powered trait have changed value, and I suspect they have not. These likely still need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the new set bonus values.

i can confirm that powered is still 9% and ritual is 10%. progress is progress.

Alright so they've taken a step in the right direction. Now they just have to normalize the relationship between the set bonus and the mundus/weapon trait, which should be an easier argument to make.

Iskiab

Why normalize it? I like that they made the healing done %s not a terrible bonus, but the ritual vs powered trait just isn’t a big issue to me. I generally run powered resto staff with either magicka regen or steed for pvp, I imagine most people are the same.

twing1_

Iskiab wrote: »

Why normalize it? I like that they made the healing done %s not a terrible bonus, but the ritual vs powered trait just isn’t a big issue to me. I generally run powered resto staff with either magicka regen or steed for pvp, I imagine most people are the same.

For the sake of consistency. Literally all other mundus stones and their respective weapon traits provide the same value. Ritual and powered do not. Literally all other mundus stones/weapon traits share a 1.85x ratio with their respective item set bonus. Ritual/powered and healing done do not.

Healing done is an obvious outlier, and should be fixed. Consistency is the foundation of balance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@twing1_ it is close enough right now with 4/9/10. Let's just take zos upping the healing done set piece as a win and leave the rest where they are.

ccmedaddy

twing1_ wrote: »

Looks like we won guys. Set bonuses to healing done on PTS are now valued at 4%, up from 2%.

I have not received confirmation that the ritual mundus and powered trait have changed value, and I suspect they have not. These likely still need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the new set bonus values.

Nice. I hope they buff the Argonian healing passive accordingly.

twing1_

ccmedaddy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Looks like we won guys. Set bonuses to healing done on PTS are now valued at 4%, up from 2%.

I have not received confirmation that the ritual mundus and powered trait have changed value, and I suspect they have not. These likely still need to be adjusted to 1.85x of the new set bonus values.

Nice. I hope they buff the Argonian healing passive accordingly.

I'm hoping they leave it as it is, but give them another 1.5 set bonuses in other areas as compensation.

Their 6% healing done has effectively dropped from 3 full set bonuses to 1.5 set bonuses.

twing1_

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@twing1_ it is close enough right now with 4/9/10. Let's just take zos upping the healing done set piece as a win and leave the rest where they are.

That just doesn't make sense to me. Imagine if it were max stam that were the outlier instead.

Mage mundus would grant 2028 magicka but tower would grant 2740 max stamina, while all other sources of stam and mag value the two equally. That's not balanced.

It's true that healing done doesn't have as direct of a comparison to other mundus stones (because no other mundus offers an effect within the same category of bonus, as stam and magicka are both max stats), but the balance between these other bonuses and healing done is already evident in item set bonuses, which now value 4% healing done and 1096 max mag/stam equally. And the behavior of the ritual mundus and powered trait are completely out of line with both the balance between mundus stones and their respective weapon traits, and also the balance between these and their respective item set bonuses.

Just because ritual and powered aren't widely used, or don't affect the offensive power of a class does not give them an excuse to be the exception to the rule.

Yes, I'll concede that there are other matters that should be of higher priority on the dev's to-do list (especially with the recent class rebalance changes), but this remains an issue that needs to be resolved.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

That just doesn't make sense to me. Imagine if it were max stam that were the outlier instead.

but it is not. and it doesn't have to makes sense to you to work in the game, it is close enough. it is tolerable. it is adequate . healing done is not bad now with 4% on a set piece. just take a breath and let it go. don't die on this hill over 1-2% difference. don't let your stickler for detailness get powered and the ritual nerfed. this regard does not require you to be very meticulous. just be content that ZOS did the least they could do and didnt nerf anything.