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Argonians losing their resistance to poison (an open letter)

Swergdach
Swergdach
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Immediately say, that I agree with max_only in his thread about the wrongness of the fact that the Bosmer lose their stealth passive.

As for the Argonians: despite the fact that the developers did not mention it in the patch-note v4.3.5, from the comparison of the new racial passives of Argonian and Bosmer it is clear that they decided to divide them by the type of resistance (as well as they decided to divide Khajiit and Bosmer by the role in stealth). But just as in the case of the Bosmer/Khajiit, these changes contradict the lore of the elder scrolls. As with the thieving nature of Bosmer, which is described in previous games in the series and in-game books (as noted in the discussion thread about Bosmer), Argonians have always been resistant to both disease and poison. In addition to in-game books and descriptions of past games in the series, Argonian's resistance to poison is claimed in TESO itself (some examples on the screenshots below), and patch v4.3.5 ruins this, which spoils the player's immersion in the world of elder scrolls online.

Quest: Dangerous Webs (Bleakrock Isle side quest). No Comments.
XvodYhE.png

Quest: Bath Time (Eastmarch side quest). Argonian Laughs-at-Danger selling Daril (illegal poisonous Argonian drug) as bath salt. It cannot be safely taken by non-Argonians.
GVpKUoD.jpg
g5ompRy.jpg

Quest: Welcome Home (Dark Brotherhood story-line). Argonian Green-Venom-Tongue, member of the Dark Brotherhood, talks about the natural immunity of Argonians to poison. He also stating he got his name because he drank so much poison, his tongue is permanently stained green.
42ImOTs.jpg
mkJb1H2.jpg

Quest: A Taste for Toxins (Shadowfen, Murkmire Prologue daily quest). Argonian Jee-Lar, agent of Cyrodilic Collections, mentioning about Argonian's resistance to poison in comparison to copper-tongued skinks, which outperform Argonians in this.
5fBfFzj.jpg
RaKBbW4.jpg

However, the situation can easily be remedied by giving to Argonians, in addition to current disease resistance, a little extra resistance to poison and also by giving to Bosmers appropriate little extra resistance to disease. So the desired differentiation of the Bosmer and Argonian will remain, but the lore of the game will not be broken.

In conclusion, I ask the developers not to turn the game lore into a bargaining chip, and not to consider the people, who care about game lore, as collateral damage from rather radical attempts to distinguish races and give the maximum uniqueness to the races by detriment of the game universe. Thank you.

P.S. I am aware that the lore (as well as quests, story, etc.) is not important for many people nowadays, they play like this: youtu.be/lbJ51AJuR7E If these people are reading this - don't bother, move along.
  • moses1763
    moses1763
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    Koronach wrote: »
    moses1763 wrote: »
    if argonians eat poisonous things to boost their immunity to poison then they are NOT truly immune to ALL poisons.

    Lore is an asset to the in-game story but that doesn't mean it should be the only driver of the story. If the game stays static then it WILL die a slow death; volving and changing is much better in the long run even if some lore falls by the wayside.

    I disagree lore is part of what makes this series. They should give back poison resistance at least.

    I see your point but it is a PART not the whole. I enjoy the lore and find it interesting but the game must change...
    Live, Laugh, and Hope!
  • moses1763
    moses1763
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    Swergdach wrote: »
    moses1763 wrote: »
    if argonians eat poisonous things to boost their immunity to poison then they are NOT truly immune to ALL poisons.
    You missed the main word: NATURAL immunity. Therefore, your words lose their meaning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    lol ty for the giggle.

    The argument still stands why the need to boost their immunity?
    Live, Laugh, and Hope!
  • Koronach
    Koronach
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    moses1763 wrote: »
    Swergdach wrote: »
    moses1763 wrote: »
    if argonians eat poisonous things to boost their immunity to poison then they are NOT truly immune to ALL poisons.
    You missed the main word: NATURAL immunity. Therefore, your words lose their meaning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    lol ty for the giggle.

    The argument still stands why the need to boost their immunity?

    Because it makes it even stronger so they can withstand even stronger poisons. I don't see you arguing in the Bosmer thread about wanting Stealth passive back. Are you here just to troll? Your argument is invalid considering the picture evidence of poison resistance actually being mentioned in the game. Also they kind of failed on these points.
    • When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
    • The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
    • Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
    • The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

    That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.
    Edited by Koronach on March 5, 2019 3:01PM
  • moses1763
    moses1763
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    Koronach wrote: »
    moses1763 wrote: »
    Swergdach wrote: »
    moses1763 wrote: »
    if argonians eat poisonous things to boost their immunity to poison then they are NOT truly immune to ALL poisons.
    You missed the main word: NATURAL immunity. Therefore, your words lose their meaning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    lol ty for the giggle.

    The argument still stands why the need to boost their immunity?

    Because it makes it even stronger so they can withstand even stronger poisons. I don't see you arguing in the Bosmer thread about wanting Stealth passive back. Are you here just to troll? Your argument is invalid considering the picture evidence of poison resistance actually being mentioned in the game.

    oh my I see how you are because I find your argument of lore flawed. As I see it as long as I am respectful and without malice I can post in this here thread. I get the love of Lore but sometime its best to step back and relax especially when someone just might have a different opinion than you.

    The class changes were in no way game breaking, yes changes were made that some disagree with but in the end its not 'our' game
    but 'theirs' so its all mote at this point.

    I wish you the best in your endeavor to get the change back as for me I am adapted and happy having a blast. :)

    Edited by moses1763 on March 5, 2019 3:07PM
    Live, Laugh, and Hope!
  • Cundu_Ertur
    Cundu_Ertur
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    Wellll, actually, ZoS is pretty much Bethesda. Both ZoS and Bethesda Softworks are subsidiaries of ZeniMax Media, a company specifically created by Bethesda's founders to act as parent company and allow them to branch out.

    Bethesda came first, 1986, as a subsidiary of a different company altogether. Zenimax was established as a new parent company in 1999 and brought in new investors. Zenimax Online started in 2007 as a different subsidiary. Several other companies were acquired along the way (like id or Arkane). The degree to which subsidiaries work together is different from company to company. Post Holdings, for example, has at least three different cereal companies (Post, Malt-O-Meal, and Weetabix), those subsidiaries actually compete against each other. My understanding is that the lore of the Elder Scrolls is Bethesda's IP., but I could be wrong.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • phantasmalD
    phantasmalD
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    According to Pete Hines "ZeniMax and Bethesda for all intents and purposes are one thing. Bethesda has no accounting department, we have no finance, we have no legal, our legal department [and] our financial department is ZeniMax, we all operate as one unit.

    Bethesda Softworks is the publisher and ZeniMax is the parent company which owns Bethesda, which owns id, which owns Arkane. But all that really matters is that Bethesda is publishing the games of all those studios.

    [...]it's more sort of the overarching structure under which Bethesda operates."

    So to my understanding any division within this clump of studios exists merely to cleanly allocate resources and tasks.
    But this is off-topic.
  • Kulvar
    Kulvar
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    Zenimax and Bethesda are almost the same thing, like Activision and Blizzard.
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • Hand_Bacon
    Hand_Bacon
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    Maybe they have access to lore that you don't have yet.

    One thing is for sure, we need more open letters.
  • Swergdach
    Swergdach
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    @Swergdach I went ahead and copied down a part of the racials for Argonians in Morrowind and Oblivion.

    •••

    The racials for Argonians in Morrowind.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Argonian

    Spell: Water Breathing Water Breathing for 120sec on Self, Cost: 5pts
    Ability: Resist Poison Resist Poison 100%
    Ability: Resist Common Disease Resist Common Disease 75%

    •••

    The racials for Argonians in Oblivion

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Argonian

    Argonian Disease Resistance ability: Resist Disease 75% on Self, constant
    Argonian Poison Immunity ability: Resist Poison 100% on Self, constant
    Argonian Water Breathing ability: Water Breathing on Self, constant

    Good luck!

    I'm aware of this. I didn't want to overload my original post. I am sure that the developers are also aware of this and until recently took it into account.
    Thanks anyway. :)
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    As much as I appreciate your efforts, don't leave out this little information when linking racials from previous ES games:

    Skyrim: Argonians are no longer resistant to Poison as they were in previous games.

    So the removal of Argonians' poison resistance started back in the last main entry of the series.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • DreadDaedroth
    DreadDaedroth
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    moses1763 wrote: »
    if argonians eat poisonous things to boost their immunity to poison then they are NOT truly immune to ALL poisons.

    Lore is an asset to the in-game story but that doesn't mean it should be the only driver of the story. If the game stays static then it WILL die a slow death; evolving and changing is much better in the long run even if some lore falls by the wayside.

    If the game it's twisted and brought to decay in spite of the lore; driven only by mere numbers then it'd die; it's just a different point of view.
  • Hand_Bacon
    Hand_Bacon
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    Swergdach wrote: »
    Or they had access to lore, and now they do what the wind whispers in their ears. Who knows? (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
    https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
    P.S. I'm sorry for replying this, I don't usually respond to comments from obvious trolls. It will never happen again. Thank you for understanding. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Obvious trolls? Thats a legit observation. When in the timeline is eso? In their own words they delved deep into the lore which could be taken as mining deeper from it or going further back. If we use other TES games as lore settings then its good to recognize ESO controls the lore now.
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    As much as I appreciate your efforts, don't leave out this little information when linking racials from previous ES games:

    Skyrim: Argonians are no longer resistant to Poison as they were in previous games.

    So the removal of Argonians' poison resistance started back in the last main entry of the series.

    Skyrim doesn't matter, this isn't Skyrim. This game states that we are resistant to poison. How is this so hard to comprehend? It is stated in this very game by NPC's that we are resistant to poison. It's established Lore within this very game. Sorry but that is going against established lore not preserving it like they claimed.

    It's not, your right. But when some guys are using Morrowind or Oblivion as an example for poison resistance I can use Skyrim as an example against poison resistance.

    I don't have a problem with Argonians being resistant to poison, don't get me wrong. I can understand why they removed it though. To expect them to rewrite quests is a bit silly, there are thousands of quests in this game with maybe millions of words. To go into them and change them adequately whenever you make some changes is an impossible task especially when all of it is voiced.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
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