phoenixkungfu wrote: »Sorry extremely disagree. Its main function that people use is a gap closer to line up with the next attack. Very rarely is it use as a combo ender. The numbers and percentages dont lie.
And
IT IS MY BELIEF THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
@Xvorg
for your concern: a skill that teleports your char from one place to another player or NPC is a gapcloser. be it instant, cast, ultimate or a potion. the skill closes the gap between you and your target.
=> this is what makes it a gapcloser.
N.B: if you dont have any target you CANNOT USE IT.
2nd point: streak teleports you somewhere at a fixed range. you can use it whenever you want as long as your ressourcepool pay the price. is it a great skill? yes, is it somehow heavily loaded? YES. is it another thread to create? maybe.
3rd: Leap hasnt been "tweaked" like any other gapcloser? oh that doesnt necessarly mean it isnt a gapcloser.
It only shows how privileged the skill has been for so long.
go on, fight for your piece of meat and show us more how biased (most of) you DKs are.
Master troll.phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
FACT
dragon leap is a gap closer
Opinion based on FACTS
GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
FACT
dragon leap is a gap closer
Opinion based on FACTS
GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
FACT
dragon leap is a gap closer
Opinion based on FACTS
GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
FACT
dragon leap is a gap closer
Opinion based on FACTS
GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »@Xvorg
for your concern: a skill that teleports your char from one place to another player or NPC is a gapcloser. be it instant, cast, ultimate or a potion. the skill closes the gap between you and your target.
=> this is what makes it a gapcloser.
N.B: if you dont have any target you CANNOT USE IT.
2nd point: streak teleports you somewhere at a fixed range. you can use it whenever you want as long as your ressourcepool pay the price. is it a great skill? yes, is it somehow heavily loaded? YES. is it another thread to create? maybe.
3rd: Leap hasnt been "tweaked" like any other gapcloser? oh that doesnt necessarly mean it isnt a gapcloser.
It only shows how privileged the skill has been for so long.
go on, fight for your piece of meat and show us more how biased (most of) you DKs are.
It was tweaked multiple times. Many were nerfs... very very very sad nerfs. How long have you been playing? The Dirty ZoS fingers pretty recently touched it.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Great so I finally agree with someone that the vision of a move based on a name is s spot on.
Which once again makes bolt escape not a gap closer. But a getaway tool (however its is being abused to have similar qualities like a gap closer.)
And the stun on toppling charge to be a gap closer that stun.
Well that was pointless and I'm called the brainless, interesting
Back on topic, problem is almost all gameplay game breaking mechanic has been fixed based on moves that gives to much frame advantage on stun. Moves that double dip. Moves like crystal frags or d-swing. Almost all bUT gap closers
And it is my OPINION THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
At this point this thread has become more of a Discussion about How to Fix OP's BELIEF rather than actual skill.
@ZOS_FelipeF - I urge you to get the this thread closed as the discussion here is meaningless now and serves no purpose anymore to game mechanic discussion. As well as it's not CONSTUCTIVE anymore but a Meme of SOMEONE'S BELIEF and all the wasted opportunities to make him understand very basics of game mechanics.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Well let's take if from the top is silver lash a gap closer yes. The list can go on. Its yes by the definition. Are any gap closer that doesn't stun game breakinging. Not in this game at the current time. The stun on gap closers are given way to much meta in the form of stun. Stuns ae simply THE BEST META IN PVP. The advantage of positive frames to burst is way to high on a gap closer. And that's ok if the gap closer doesn't STUN.
Steak I say sure nerf it. However it's not a gap closer. It's a getaway tool. I will even say the unmorph name because it speaks for it self BOLT ESCAPE, SMH, enough said there.
Moving on, it is a valid point that the stun is AND has been abused for years. The stun as a escape tool should be limited to a lower set distant . Like 8 meters to stun and 14 meters to teleport away. This as gameplay will re enforce the streak is a getaway tool. This way a player will never have a gap closer player lock positive frames. And is a counter to a gap closer but not abuse after natural due to cc being every 4 seconds. I said this point MANY MANY TIMES.
The second post created was a direct result of the should gap closers stun post. I created a dk post because the should gap closers post has turned into a just nerf dk topic. When the end goal is any and all
GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I gave a topic for just dks to speak. Lol it in no shape or form a lost to do that. In fact I think ITS WINNING. TO BE KNOWN AS THE GUY TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. No matter who stands in the way. I believe when the dust settles alot of players will see the light on this topic. THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I also believe that the gameplay will be rich and more rewarding to see player win because of skill and not broken mechanic
IM HONESTLY HONOR TO BE THE ONE TO BRING CLEAR CUT QUESTIONS OF GAMEPLAY TO THE ATTENTION OF THE MASSES.
it seem alot of players want a guarantee dot class to also have burst WITHOUT ANY WIN CONDITIONS and that's ok? I never said nerf any damage on a dk. This is true because the goal is NOT FOCUS ON 1 CLASS.
THE FOCUS IS ON GAMEPLAY
And gameplay of any gap closer that stun is broken in my opinion. ESPECIALLY on a versitale, that in any situation the user is at a advantage dragon leap.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Great so I finally agree with someone that the vision of a move based on a name is s spot on.
Which once again makes bolt escape not a gap closer. But a getaway tool (however its is being abused to have similar qualities like a gap closer.)
And the stun on toppling charge to be a gap closer that stun.
Well that was pointless and I'm called the brainless, interesting
Back on topic, problem is almost all gameplay game breaking mechanic has been fixed based on moves that gives to much frame advantage on stun. Moves that double dip. Moves like crystal frags or d-swing. Almost all bUT gap closers
And it is my OPINION THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.
Definitions regarding skills are made by convention, and convention here dictates that Leap is not a Gap Closer.
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.
Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.
Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).
just a pop up for moar bias in here.
+
"Definitions regarding skills are made by convention, and convention here dictates that Leap is not a Gap Closer.
just briliant. i'd love to see that convention and put my 2cts to it sometimes. could you, please great @Xvorg give me a link of that convention so i can sign it too?
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.
Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.
Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).
If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.
I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.
Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.
Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).
If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.
I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.
No, of course it is overperforming, but it is not the stun the main problem. The main problem are the passives it triggers.
In any case, Toppling during long, long time was one of the buggiest skills in this game. Magplars for long, long time never bothered using it.
Should it have an adjustment? Yes, maybe taking away the stun, but in that case we all agree ZoS should give Shard's stun back. Maybe tweaking down the dmg is another way to balance it.
What cannot be done is to take away the stun, leaving templars without a melee CC.
Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.
Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.
Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).
If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.
I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.
No, of course it is overperforming, but it is not the stun the main problem. The main problem are the passives it triggers.
In any case, Toppling during long, long time was one of the buggiest skills in this game. Magplars for long, long time never bothered using it.
Should it have an adjustment? Yes, maybe taking away the stun, but in that case we all agree ZoS should give Shard's stun back. Maybe tweaking down the dmg is another way to balance it.
What cannot be done is to take away the stun, leaving templars without a melee CC.
Eh, just removing the off balance and interrupt would be a good start. The stun and damage can stay for all I care.
Anyhow, my main gripe was from your earlier statement, "Toppling is the only stun in the templar kit" when that only held true for magplars, which may have been the intended meaning. I use the stam javelin on my templar and adore it, so I had no choice but to defend.
More on topic, I think this thread is quickly devolving into semantics. Yes, leap is a gap closer because it has that effect attached to it, but what's the real problem here? It's seldom to never actually used to close distance. Yes, it has a lot of good passives attached to it, but more classes should be that way. Can we move on?