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Is dragon leap so versitale, that in any situation the user is at a advantage?

  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    Sorry extremely disagree. Its main function that people use is a gap closer to line up with the next attack. Very rarely is it use as a combo ender. The numbers and percentages dont lie.
    And
    IT IS MY BELIEF THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Look the people who DO use leap as a gap closer are running DAMAGE! They’d drop you ANYWAYS. LOL.

    Try blocking some. You won’t get stunned and you won’t take damage. Fossilize, talons, flame lash powerlash, Leap is a tried and true DK finishing combo. Very basic.

    You’re a Sorc. They took away reflection from wings. You’re STILL begging for nerfs lol.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    kalunte wrote: »
    @Xvorg
    for your concern: a skill that teleports your char from one place to another player or NPC is a gapcloser. be it instant, cast, ultimate or a potion. the skill closes the gap between you and your target.

    => this is what makes it a gapcloser.

    N.B: if you dont have any target you CANNOT USE IT.


    2nd point: streak teleports you somewhere at a fixed range. you can use it whenever you want as long as your ressourcepool pay the price. is it a great skill? yes, is it somehow heavily loaded? YES. is it another thread to create? maybe.


    3rd: Leap hasnt been "tweaked" like any other gapcloser? oh that doesnt necessarly mean it isnt a gapcloser.
    It only shows how privileged the skill has been for so long.


    go on, fight for your piece of meat and show us more how biased (most of) you DKs are.

    @kalunte I'll explain you why it is not a Gap closer: any regular Gap Closer puts you near the objective, ON DEMAND, which means you can close the gap once and again during a fight. Can you do that ON DEMAND through leap? NO, because it is an ULTIMATE. You do it ONCE or TWICE in a fight (with around 30 secs difference)

    And even with that, using Leap as a gap closer is utterly stupid, as I explained here:

    Now a question for you: Is executioner a spammable skill? Is Funnel health a dmg skill or a HoT? What about ritual of retribution, isn't it a heal or maybe is something else?

    Skills must be classified by its use and not the impractical theory you are bringing here, which says a lot about the experience you have as players.
    Edited by Xvorg on December 5, 2019 1:34AM
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  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
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    Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
    Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE

    FACT
    dragon leap is a gap closer

    Opinion based on FACTS

    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
    Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE

    FACT
    dragon leap is a gap closer

    Opinion based on FACTS

    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN
    Master troll.
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    This guy is the new Knowledge
  • TrinityBreaker
    TrinityBreaker
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    Bet let me get on my sorc and use my escape tool I.E. streak to close the gap and *** my opponent up.
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  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
    Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE

    FACT
    dragon leap is a gap closer

    Opinion based on FACTS

    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Says the kiting Sorc spamming shields, refusing to block and wanting to fight at range. Lol. I bet you wrote a nerf wings thread somewhere in these forums too lol.

    There’s nothing wrong with leap. Leap is only unfair to squishes when their shields go down. Lol.
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    Thinks Leap is the best ulti in game, forgets to mention negate. Oh wait, you're a sorc...
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  • Sanguinor2
    Sanguinor2
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    Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
    Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE

    FACT
    dragon leap is a gap closer

    Opinion based on FACTS

    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Very convenient Definition of a gap Closer to exclude streak, I cant help but wonder if I do detect some bias here. Guess you dont want sorc gap Closer to loose the stun eh? Small Question tho, why is something that doesnt lock on a target but still Closes the distance between the 2 not a gap Closer?

    We´ve talked About this a lot already, while you can use leap to close a gap that is not its Primary function, its Primary function is to deal burst Damage and apply pressure and the large majority of dks uses leap that way. Furthermore you can simply block the oh so overpowered cc from leap, guess where you cant do that? Oh Right its streak. But thats fine since teleporting to a target while not locking onto them is not actually teleporting to a target Right?

    Also just saying but your Definition is very debatable: It excludes anything that Closes a gap but does not lock onto a target, I wonder why, could it be that your gap Closer with an unblockable stun doesnt lock onto a target? Perish the thought.
    It also includes stuff that is actually not a gap Closer like silver leash and fiery/unrelenting grip while at the same time excluding similar abilities and sets like swarmmother, necro armor buff and warden Portals that do the exact same Thing as the previously mentioned abilities. So your undebatable fact is actually Pretty debatable and not that much of a fact.

    If anyone is having a "disbelief for common sense" as you put it it would be you. Common sense says: block leap and it does near Nothing. While you say: leap is the best ultimate in the game and has no counterplay. Doesnt really align or does it? One has to be wrong, now I wonder if its you or 6 pages worth of People saying otherwise.

    Since you like to talk so much About biases let me explain something to you About them.
    Everyone is biased and that will not Change. While we can be Aware of that and try to fight them we cannot and will not be without a bias toward something. The reason for that is that our biases get formed by what we experience and have already experienced.
    A Wonderful example of that would be you. You are very biased against leap and for streak as seen by your Postings. Two nerf threads About leap already and even with the first going nowhere with About no one agreeing with you, you still made the second in hopes of getting someone to agree there. Now I can only guess what Kind of experience you made with leap but it must´ve been Pretty traumatic since you launched this crusade to get leap nerfed when everyone tells you that it has Wonderful and easily accessible counterplay. Another Thing is that you do not even seem to be Aware of These biases you have, which to be honest isnt exactly uncommon since a bias is, at first, Always a subconcious Thing you have to become Aware of or Need to get pointed out to you and only then can you try to Combat it.
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    Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
    Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
    Honor is keeping ones word.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Lord jesus dks are so bias. Lol you dont even believe leap is a gap closer. Any move that locks on a target...key word LOCKS ON A TARGET. While closing a smaller distance between the defender. Is a gap closer. This is a fact and is not debatable. There is no opinion, it a pure fact. For those who say otherwise it is a fact on that principal only that you have a alot to learn. Not just in terms on eso but in term on gameplay mechanics in general in any video game ever created. I believe that the bias nature of a some player's disbelief that they are getting a TREMENDOUS HELPING HAND can cloud a player to the point of disbelief for common sense. If a player is in fact not getting such a unfair advantage by having a gap that stun. Then why is the removal of the stun going to effect a good player ability to be effective.
    Answer is simple it carrying major of player because IT'S A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE

    FACT
    dragon leap is a gap closer

    Opinion based on FACTS

    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Your obsession with it being a gap closer is ridiculous :lol:

    You have just created a new definition with criteria you have created :lol:

    What difference does it make that it is a gap closer?

    Streak is a gap closer/opener that does an unblockable stun. The difference is that streak is truly more versatile and can be utilised whenever you like for a multitude of purposes.
    A melee class is trying to close the gap and you are trying to open it, do you not realise how meme like you are?

    Does your mouse only have one button? oh well if only you could teleport away/to/through... out wait YOU CAN!

    Guess what I was fighting a hybrid sorc the other day, can you guess what his gap closer did?

    I asked him 'how much ultimate did that cost?' to my suprise he said 'none!!!' :astonished:
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
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    Well let's take if from the top is silver lash a gap closer yes. The list can go on. Its yes by the definition. Are any gap closer that doesn't stun game breakinging. Not in this game at the current time. The stun on gap closers are given way to much meta in the form of stun. Stuns ae simply THE BEST META IN PVP. The advantage of positive frames to burst is way to high on a gap closer. And that's ok if the gap closer doesn't STUN.
    Steak I say sure nerf it. However it's not a gap closer. It's a getaway tool. I will even say the unmorph name because it speaks for it self BOLT ESCAPE, SMH, enough said there.
    Moving on, it is a valid point that the stun is AND has been abused for years. The stun as a escape tool should be limited to a lower set distant . Like 8 meters to stun and 14 meters to teleport away. This as gameplay will re enforce the streak is a getaway tool. This way a player will never have a gap closer player lock positive frames. And is a counter to a gap closer but not abuse after natural due to cc being every 4 seconds. I said this point MANY MANY TIMES.

    The second post created was a direct result of the should gap closers stun post. I created a dk post because the should gap closers post has turned into a just nerf dk topic. When the end goal is any and all
    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I gave a topic for just dks to speak. Lol it in no shape or form a lost to do that. In fact I think ITS WINNING. TO BE KNOWN AS THE GUY TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. No matter who stands in the way. I believe when the dust settles alot of players will see the light on this topic. THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I also believe that the gameplay will be rich and more rewarding to see player win because of skill and not broken mechanic
    IM HONESTLY HONOR TO BE THE ONE TO BRING CLEAR CUT QUESTIONS OF GAMEPLAY TO THE ATTENTION OF THE MASSES.

    it seem alot of players want a guarantee dot class to also have burst WITHOUT ANY WIN CONDITIONS and that's ok? I never said nerf any damage on a dk. This is true because the goal is NOT FOCUS ON 1 CLASS.
    THE FOCUS IS ON GAMEPLAY
    And gameplay of any gap closer that stun is broken in my opinion. ESPECIALLY on a versitale, that in any situation the user is at a advantage dragon leap.
  • UrbanMonk
    UrbanMonk
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    If only I can Gap Close you and Stunn you from posting anymore here this Rhetorical Belief of yours.
    It is MY BELIEF that ALL GAP CLOSERS SHOULD HAVE STUNN REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY OPERATE. And at the same time ALL RANGE STUNN WHICH IS LOST SHOULD BE BROUGHT BACK, SO THAT CLASSES WITHOUT A DECENT STUNN HAVE SOME CHANCE OF COUNTER GAMEPLAY.
    Removing the stun will not only make the gameplay Dull but also kill the combat.

    Regarding Sorc streak, I also happen to play a Stamsorc in a Ball group, and do you know how I use it? To GAPCLOSE ON ZERGLINGS LIKE YOU and stunn you so that my group wipes you in a instant and move on.
    If by your definition, streak- Bolt Escape name suggests that its Escaoe tool, the Toppling charge also suggests IT SHOULD (snip) TOPPLE YOU. what's the point of a Toppling charge if it doesn't Topple you. What's the point of A Leap if it doesn't Leap at you?

    (snip)

    (edited for content)
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on December 5, 2019 2:27PM
    Urban.Monk

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  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    kalunte wrote: »
    @Xvorg
    for your concern: a skill that teleports your char from one place to another player or NPC is a gapcloser. be it instant, cast, ultimate or a potion. the skill closes the gap between you and your target.

    => this is what makes it a gapcloser.

    N.B: if you dont have any target you CANNOT USE IT.


    2nd point: streak teleports you somewhere at a fixed range. you can use it whenever you want as long as your ressourcepool pay the price. is it a great skill? yes, is it somehow heavily loaded? YES. is it another thread to create? maybe.


    3rd: Leap hasnt been "tweaked" like any other gapcloser? oh that doesnt necessarly mean it isnt a gapcloser.
    It only shows how privileged the skill has been for so long.


    go on, fight for your piece of meat and show us more how biased (most of) you DKs are.

    It was tweaked multiple times. Many were nerfs... very very very sad nerfs. How long have you been playing? The Dirty ZoS fingers pretty recently touched it.

    The fact that people think ANY skill in the game at this point has not been nerfed, buffed, tweaked, then nerfed again is a joke. Just shows they only recently started playing
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
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    Great so I finally agree with someone that the vision of a move based on a name is s spot on.

    Which once again makes bolt escape not a gap closer. But a getaway tool (however its is being abused to have similar qualities like a gap closer.)

    And the stun on toppling charge to be a gap closer that stun.

    Well that was pointless and I'm called the brainless, interesting

    Back on topic, problem is almost all gameplay game breaking mechanic has been fixed based on moves that gives to much frame advantage on stun. Moves that double dip. Moves like crystal frags or d-swing. Almost all bUT gap closers
    And it is my OPINION THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Edited by phoenixkungfu on December 5, 2019 1:36PM
  • jadarock
    jadarock
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    I think we know where everyone stands and it's safe to say we are now spinning our tires.
    Please mods lock this thread
    Edited by jadarock on December 5, 2019 1:41PM
  • ZOS_FalcoYamaoka
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  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Great so I finally agree with someone that the vision of a move based on a name is s spot on.

    Which once again makes bolt escape not a gap closer. But a getaway tool (however its is being abused to have similar qualities like a gap closer.)

    And the stun on toppling charge to be a gap closer that stun.

    Well that was pointless and I'm called the brainless, interesting

    Back on topic, problem is almost all gameplay game breaking mechanic has been fixed based on moves that gives to much frame advantage on stun. Moves that double dip. Moves like crystal frags or d-swing. Almost all bUT gap closers
    And it is my OPINION THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    You are a game breaking mechanic!!

    As in: if anyone ever takes your moronic idea's seriously it will break the game.
    I still find it hilarious that you are ignoring a point made by about 30 people at this point.
    YOU RUN A GAP CLOSER THAT STUNS!

    I haven't seen a single reply over 3 freaking threads that agrees with you.
    Anyone else at this point would have reached the conclusion that it is you that has the problem and not everyone else.

    Do you know what they call people that think they are speaking the truth and everyone else is crazy?

    I'm sure you can guess...

    Please just take a moment to reflect on the replies and then go and work on your build/gameplay.
    If this is such an issue for you and no one else then it is truly time for some self reflection on what you need to change.
  • UrbanMonk
    UrbanMonk
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    At this point this thread has become more of a Discussion about How to Fix OP's BELIEF rather than actual skill.
    @ZOS_FelipeF - I urge you to get the this thread closed as the discussion here is meaningless now and serves no purpose anymore to game mechanic discussion. As well as it's not CONSTUCTIVE anymore but a Meme of SOMEONE'S BELIEF and all the wasted opportunities to make him understand very basics of game mechanics.
    Urban.Monk

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  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    UrbanMonk wrote: »
    At this point this thread has become more of a Discussion about How to Fix OP's BELIEF rather than actual skill.
    @ZOS_FelipeF - I urge you to get the this thread closed as the discussion here is meaningless now and serves no purpose anymore to game mechanic discussion. As well as it's not CONSTUCTIVE anymore but a Meme of SOMEONE'S BELIEF and all the wasted opportunities to make him understand very basics of game mechanics.

    Lol if you don't like the conversation you don't have to look at it bruh. Sjw in action
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Well let's take if from the top is silver lash a gap closer yes. The list can go on. Its yes by the definition. Are any gap closer that doesn't stun game breakinging. Not in this game at the current time. The stun on gap closers are given way to much meta in the form of stun. Stuns ae simply THE BEST META IN PVP. The advantage of positive frames to burst is way to high on a gap closer. And that's ok if the gap closer doesn't STUN.
    Steak I say sure nerf it. However it's not a gap closer. It's a getaway tool. I will even say the unmorph name because it speaks for it self BOLT ESCAPE, SMH, enough said there.
    Moving on, it is a valid point that the stun is AND has been abused for years. The stun as a escape tool should be limited to a lower set distant . Like 8 meters to stun and 14 meters to teleport away. This as gameplay will re enforce the streak is a getaway tool. This way a player will never have a gap closer player lock positive frames. And is a counter to a gap closer but not abuse after natural due to cc being every 4 seconds. I said this point MANY MANY TIMES.

    The second post created was a direct result of the should gap closers stun post. I created a dk post because the should gap closers post has turned into a just nerf dk topic. When the end goal is any and all
    GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I gave a topic for just dks to speak. Lol it in no shape or form a lost to do that. In fact I think ITS WINNING. TO BE KNOWN AS THE GUY TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. No matter who stands in the way. I believe when the dust settles alot of players will see the light on this topic. THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN. I also believe that the gameplay will be rich and more rewarding to see player win because of skill and not broken mechanic
    IM HONESTLY HONOR TO BE THE ONE TO BRING CLEAR CUT QUESTIONS OF GAMEPLAY TO THE ATTENTION OF THE MASSES.

    it seem alot of players want a guarantee dot class to also have burst WITHOUT ANY WIN CONDITIONS and that's ok? I never said nerf any damage on a dk. This is true because the goal is NOT FOCUS ON 1 CLASS.
    THE FOCUS IS ON GAMEPLAY
    And gameplay of any gap closer that stun is broken in my opinion. ESPECIALLY on a versitale, that in any situation the user is at a advantage dragon leap.

    Sorry, but near 80% of the time in Cyro, the stun of the gap closer is useless. Half of that time is useless because most oponents have CC immunity. The other half is because the CC of the gap closer is easy to break, so you are giving away CC imunity . There is a small 20% in which the stun of the gap closer is useful, and that's when dealing with potatoes.

    So, I suggest you this, take away the stun from leap (which in fact doesn't do anything) and increase its dmg or decrase its cost. Same with shield charge, then, as a mDK, I can use foss without having to wait 6 secs due to CC imunity.

    Will you like that... no, right?

    Be careful with what you wish, because no stun on Leap/Shield charge would mean you have to eat a full foss. And we all agree that Foss is the best single target CC in the game, Am I right?
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

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  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Great so I finally agree with someone that the vision of a move based on a name is s spot on.

    Which once again makes bolt escape not a gap closer. But a getaway tool (however its is being abused to have similar qualities like a gap closer.)

    And the stun on toppling charge to be a gap closer that stun.

    Well that was pointless and I'm called the brainless, interesting

    Back on topic, problem is almost all gameplay game breaking mechanic has been fixed based on moves that gives to much frame advantage on stun. Moves that double dip. Moves like crystal frags or d-swing. Almost all bUT gap closers
    And it is my OPINION THAT GAP CLOSER SHOULD NEVER STUN

    Ok, this is so stupid as saying Cloak is just a defensive tool :D

    You don't define what the skills are, you don't have such power in the game. Definitions regarding skills are made by convention, and convention here dictates that Leap is not a Gap Closer. It has been said not by DKs, but by players who have experience in both sides of the coin.

    Should we agree with a guy who only has experience as a sorc and who has just 27 days as DK? I've played my sorc the more than RT 90 days and I still consider Leap is OK. And of course I use streak to stun a blocking guy, so my meteor hits him (a good old trick a very well known sorc showed me like 4 years ago)

    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...
    Edited by Xvorg on December 5, 2019 4:24PM
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.

    Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • kalunte
    kalunte
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    just a pop up for moar bias in here.
    +

    "
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Definitions regarding skills are made by convention, and convention here dictates that Leap is not a Gap Closer.

    just briliant. i'd love to see that convention and put my 2cts to it sometimes. could you, please great @Xvorg give me a link of that convention so i can sign it too?
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.

    Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).

    If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.

    I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    kalunte wrote: »
    just a pop up for moar bias in here.
    +

    "
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Definitions regarding skills are made by convention, and convention here dictates that Leap is not a Gap Closer.

    just briliant. i'd love to see that convention and put my 2cts to it sometimes. could you, please great @Xvorg give me a link of that convention so i can sign it too?

    The majority here says that it is not a gap closer.

    The majority is represented by guys playing different classes, not only DK, but also Temps, NBs, some Wardens, som Necros... even sorcs. Most of them play different classes and have experience in both sides of the coin.

    The minority is represented by a couple of guys who play only one class: Sorc.

    So, under that perspective who's biassed?

    As my dad used to say "The raven calls the crow black" :D
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.

    Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).

    If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.

    I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.

    No, of course it is overperforming, but it is not the stun the main problem. The main problem are the passives it triggers.

    In any case, Toppling during long, long time was one of the buggiest skills in this game. Magplars for long, long time never bothered using it.

    Should it have an adjustment? Yes, maybe taking away the stun, but in that case we all agree ZoS should give Shard's stun back. Maybe tweaking down the dmg is another way to balance it.

    What cannot be done is to take away the stun, leaving templars without a melee CC.

    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.

    Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).

    If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.

    I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.

    No, of course it is overperforming, but it is not the stun the main problem. The main problem are the passives it triggers.

    In any case, Toppling during long, long time was one of the buggiest skills in this game. Magplars for long, long time never bothered using it.

    Should it have an adjustment? Yes, maybe taking away the stun, but in that case we all agree ZoS should give Shard's stun back. Maybe tweaking down the dmg is another way to balance it.

    What cannot be done is to take away the stun, leaving templars without a melee CC.

    Eh, just removing the off balance and interrupt would be a good start. The stun and damage can stay for all I care.

    Anyhow, my main gripe was from your earlier statement, "Toppling is the only stun in the templar kit" when that only held true for magplars, which may have been the intended meaning. I use the stam javelin on my templar and adore it, so I had no choice but to defend.

    More on topic, I think this thread is quickly devolving into semantics. Yes, leap is a gap closer because it has that effect attached to it, but what's the real problem here? It's seldom to never actually used to close distance. Yes, it has a lot of good passives attached to it, but more classes should be that way. Can we move on?
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you: Toppling has a stun because it is the only stun in the templars kit. If you want a class without a gap closer that stun, maybe you could agree with a class with a ranged AoE that stun...

    Let's not forget about javelin, which is just as reliable of a stun if not more so.

    Aurora has a Knockback, not a stun.

    Binding has a stun but that one is a stamina based skill. And stamplars don't use Toppling, having access to shielded assault or Crit Charge (or the DW gap closer).

    If we're just talking about magplar exclusively, sure. You're right. But that would mean it's the only stun in the magplar's kit.

    I still get antsy at anyone defending toppling, though.

    No, of course it is overperforming, but it is not the stun the main problem. The main problem are the passives it triggers.

    In any case, Toppling during long, long time was one of the buggiest skills in this game. Magplars for long, long time never bothered using it.

    Should it have an adjustment? Yes, maybe taking away the stun, but in that case we all agree ZoS should give Shard's stun back. Maybe tweaking down the dmg is another way to balance it.

    What cannot be done is to take away the stun, leaving templars without a melee CC.

    Eh, just removing the off balance and interrupt would be a good start. The stun and damage can stay for all I care.

    Anyhow, my main gripe was from your earlier statement, "Toppling is the only stun in the templar kit" when that only held true for magplars, which may have been the intended meaning. I use the stam javelin on my templar and adore it, so I had no choice but to defend.

    More on topic, I think this thread is quickly devolving into semantics. Yes, leap is a gap closer because it has that effect attached to it, but what's the real problem here? It's seldom to never actually used to close distance. Yes, it has a lot of good passives attached to it, but more classes should be that way. Can we move on?

    Yeah, my fault, I should have said magplar, and since OP has problems with toppling which is more a magplar skill.

    By the way I agree with the semantic problem, that's why I used Executioner and funnel health as examples. If I want to use funnel is mainly because I want to heal in spita that the skill is a dmg skill in theory (and was a dmg skill from day one).

    At the end this is just another discussion between rationalism vs empirism... problem is that the representative of rationalism are raising irrational arguments.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
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    i can tell you that the large majority of a death i personally experienced from a dk is from the use of dk leap as a gap closer. The stun is just to overloaded. It's the number one reason why I am not a vampire.
    Furthermore most dks ( especially magic) on average to almost all, dont slot any form of gap closers on there bar. Empowering chains is 1 of the coolest skills in the game and I almost never see it. It is my belief that the reason for this is because leap as a gap closer is the highest distance in the game. As leap is at max distance cap.
This discussion has been closed.