Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
brandonv516 wrote: »
brandonv516 wrote: »
Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.
You forget that Caluurion, like all procs, can't crit, yet you still compare it to ultimates. Also, while Caluurion is off GCD, please tell me what other stackable burst magblade actually has?Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
Interesting. There is a lot I agree with here. The last paragraph: Yes, yes, yes. I've always felt the melee playstyle is about staying on target to finish people off, however lately I've switched to Swallow Soul as my spammable and I use Impale. I still jump in for burst, but then either the target backs off, or I back off when they are near a group of faction mates.thankyourat wrote: »For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.
Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.
I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.
The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.
What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.
I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.
If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.
Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
GhostofDatthaw wrote: »@Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.
Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on
GhostofDatthaw wrote: »@Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.
Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on
This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.
I have used Caluurion (and still do occasionally). On a gank build that neither needs to use an ultimate nor Merciless. That set basically removes the need to actually use skills that are meant to be used to burst players down (ofc you can still combine all those for even more burst).
The reason why i dislike many proc sets (caluurion and zaan especially ) and think they are unbalanced and "carry sets" is that unlike stat sets, they require a lot less player effort to get high value out of it. Stat sets amplify the skill dmg output by a few percent (usually 10% or less). So if someone does not know how to use his skills in oder to generate burst, those sets do nothing for a player. But with sets like Calu or Zaan all a player has to do is press a single button for potential 5-10k+ additional dmg. Yes those sets can be countered, but countering them takes more effort and resources than proccing them. Free dmg should be counterable for free and if players want those proc to land they should have to work for them, eg use cc at the right time, instead of automatically forcing the opponent to burn a quite substantial amount of resources - especially without CP - or outright killing him.
@fred4
You said, you don't use Merciless, because it is too difficult to use for you. Actually most proc blades i see don't seem to use it. But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid. The fact that you can use Calu as an easy alternative just reinforces my opinion on the set.
Magblade might not be the strongest or easiest class right now. But it is not as bad as some here claim, and the class certainly does not need to get carried by proc sets if a players knows how to utilize the tools aviable to the class itself.
I'm saying magblade lacks the ability to combo Assassin's Will with another skill in a single GCD. Other classes have delayed skills. For example, a stamden can hit you with Subterranean and Dawnbreaker of Smiting in the same GCD. If the Dawnbreaker CC works, they will follow that with Executioner while their target is CCd and cannot defend. That's a 3 skill combo with no defense, when it works.But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid.
Well, then everything is OKYou are right that magblade isn't nearly as strong as it once was. But neither are most other classes. And Merciless is finally good again. Not a delayed burst like other classes have, but NB was never designed with that kind of burst in mind and it was still very strong in the past. And personally i'd rather try to stick closer to the "old" magblade playstyle that you describe well, instead of replacing it with a set. And while it often feels like an uphill battle, i'm currently having more fun with magblade than for like a year. Without Calu
But of course if you have more fun with different builds, then by all means go for it. Never was i trying to belittle players who use the set or telling anyone to not use it.
Metemsycosis wrote: »Sorry to chip in about magblade but proxy det is very powerful and is considered delayed burst. Ik ik it's not magblade but available nonetheless. And slays when used properly
May have been posted before as it's on a popular ESO site, but I started using a build today and I like it. Feel like there's improvements to be made.
NO-CP Cyro & BGs
Troll King 1M/1H
BTB
War Maiden Inferno Sharpened
BRP Resto Defending
7x Impen, 7x Tri-Stat
3x Arcane, 1x Spell Damage, 2x Mag Recovery
Witch mother's
Serpent Mundus
Dark Elf
Ele Drain, Lotus Fan, Swallow Soul, Fear, Merciless, Soul Harvest
Shadow Cloak, Phantasmal, Shade, Siphoning Strikes, Healing Ward, Soul Tether / Resto Ult
I'm missing Major Sorcery, need to test PvE/Spell Power pots, but I think I'll miss the Health burst.
Also might swap Phantasmal for RAT for Expedition, I use the prior for raid setup so what I had.
May have been posted before as it's on a popular ESO site, but I started using a build today and I like it. Feel like there's improvements to be made.
NO-CP Cyro & BGs
Troll King 1M/1H
BTB
War Maiden Inferno Sharpened
BRP Resto Defending
7x Impen, 7x Tri-Stat
3x Arcane, 1x Spell Damage, 2x Mag Recovery
Witch mother's
Serpent Mundus
Dark Elf
Ele Drain, Lotus Fan, Swallow Soul, Fear, Merciless, Soul Harvest
Shadow Cloak, Phantasmal, Shade, Siphoning Strikes, Healing Ward, Soul Tether / Resto Ult
I'm missing Major Sorcery, need to test PvE/Spell Power pots, but I think I'll miss the Health burst.
Also might swap Phantasmal for RAT for Expedition, I use the prior for raid setup so what I had.