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MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
  • Iskiab
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.

    Really? Use caluurion on a non-magblade. If your definition of cheese is needing something to kill others then stop using curse, wrath, shimmering shield, purifying light leap, frags, bugs, whip, synergies, and onslaught.

    When I see people say cheese all I think are bads who can’t adapt to the game and trying to sway opinions on their favour.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Rianai
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    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...
  • brandonv516
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    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.
  • thankyourat
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    For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.

    Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
    Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.

    I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.

    The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.

    Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.

    Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.

    So what? What does that have to do with anything.

    Yes I thought that assists contributed towards winning the game, yes I was probably the only magblade in higher MMR BGs on PC-NA. What’s your point?
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
    You forget that Caluurion, like all procs, can't crit, yet you still compare it to ultimates. Also, while Caluurion is off GCD, please tell me what other stackable burst magblade actually has?

    Sorc: Fury, Curse
    Templar: Backlash
    Warden: Shalks
    Necro: Blastbones
    DK: Yeah, well, OK
  • fred4
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    For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.

    Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
    Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.

    I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.

    The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
    Interesting. There is a lot I agree with here. The last paragraph: Yes, yes, yes. I've always felt the melee playstyle is about staying on target to finish people off, however lately I've switched to Swallow Soul as my spammable and I use Impale. I still jump in for burst, but then either the target backs off, or I back off when they are near a group of faction mates.

    I still find Fear effective for a variety of reasons. Less experienced players get caught out. You can fear your target and the group around them, buying you a second. You can fear the flag guards around your target, making it less likely they'll immediately throw a negate. There is also the old "fear like clockwork" to run down someone's stamina consideration, which still works on some people and is harder to achieve with just Concealed.
  • fred4
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    In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.

    What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.

    I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.

    If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.
    Edited by fred4 on November 23, 2019 2:33AM
  • Iskiab
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    One thing in defense of fear is it’s great against block casters. It’s something I miss from playing a magblade.

    As a templar I use a dot and Sweeps spam which depletes their stamina fast, but it still makes classes like DKs take longer and long enough sometimes for their friends to come and intervene.

    What I’d look at Fred is invigorating drain (or the other morph that gives minor expedition). Minor expedition would fit in well with your playstyle, but I know you’ve said you don’t like vampire.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 23, 2019 3:27AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • brandonv516
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    fred4 wrote: »
    In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.

    What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.

    I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.

    If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.

    Spot on with Caluurions being well-balanced. I suspect that this is why the skill has been left untouched for so long (other than bug fixes).

    It's nice to see someone analyze a play-style and to be able to relate by reading all of the same things that frustrate me with it too.
    Edited by brandonv516 on November 23, 2019 12:25PM
  • Rianai
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    I have used Caluurion (and still do occasionally). On a gank build that neither needs to use an ultimate nor Merciless. That set basically removes the need to actually use skills that are meant to be used to burst players down (ofc you can still combine all those for even more burst).

    The reason why i dislike many proc sets (caluurion and zaan especially ) and think they are unbalanced and "carry sets" is that unlike stat sets, they require a lot less player effort to get high value out of it. Stat sets amplify the skill dmg output by a few percent (usually 10% or less). So if someone does not know how to use his skills in oder to generate burst, those sets do nothing for a player. But with sets like Calu or Zaan all a player has to do is press a single button for potential 5-10k+ additional dmg. Yes those sets can be countered, but countering them takes more effort and resources than proccing them. Free dmg should be counterable for free and if players want those proc to land they should have to work for them, eg use cc at the right time, instead of automatically forcing the opponent to burn a quite substantial amount of resources - especially without CP - or outright killing him.

    @fred4

    You said, you don't use Merciless, because it is too difficult to use for you. Actually most proc blades i see don't seem to use it. But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid. The fact that you can use Calu as an easy alternative just reinforces my opinion on the set.

    Magblade might not be the strongest or easiest class right now. But it is not as bad as some here claim, and the class certainly does not need to get carried by proc sets if a players knows how to utilize the tools aviable to the class itself.
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.

    So what do you run then? All I see from you is a angry negative attitude right now... Calu is a carry set??? It's cheese???? It's a proc set...ok yeah. The problem is "cheese" is a joke spread down from actual top tier players. They label stuff cheese, still use it and make other weakers players feel it's "cheap" a "cheat" "cheese".

    It's honestly a meme. Every good player looks for cheese let's be real here.
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on what do you think they are trying to find in the first place.

    Some people man I swear. Get out of the cloud the "1vX" group has on you and stop trying to play with some weird self inflicted handicap when no one else does
    Edited by GhostofDatthaw on November 23, 2019 1:02PM
  • Rianai
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    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on

    This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.

    Srsly, why do people act like i did offend them personally? I'm just talking about a freaking set.
    Edited by Rianai on November 23, 2019 1:11PM
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    Rianai wrote: »
    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on

    This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.

    It depends on the circumstances also. If a class is really strong atm and has a set that brings it o the next level, yeah people will admit it's "broken" or "op" but "cheese" is the word that can be twisted and people tend to misunderstand what this means. But the thing with magnb ATM is the class is not that strong so in no way is calu "broken" or "op" like as you say in your eyes you don't think it's that great, I know a few other magnbs that don't really like the set.

    Just saying the "cheese" topic with me is a joke
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    I guess my main point is "cheese" can be a broad brush that new and less experienced players misunderstand. You can call anything in this game cheese if you want.

    Roll Dodge? How cheesy they just roll spend a little Stam and dodge all single target skills how cheesy!

    Blocking? How can you block so much damage, and from both resources! Also you can use a skill while blocking? How cheesy!

    Shields? So you're saying you can stack one resource and do damage and survive? OMG that is so cheesy!

    I could go one more specifically but I think you get the point in trying to make
  • Rianai
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    It is not like Calu ia a magblade exclusive set. Yes, it works best on that class but it is broken on other classes too for the exact same reasons. Just yesterday i had the pleasure to fight a calu magplar who wasn't very good, but if he got lucky and Calu procced on his initial toppeling -> jabs spam "combo" he could almost oneshot me. With no other set he could have put as much pressure on me. Magsorcs with Calu (it procs relatively reliable from CS) are also a thing.

    Literally anything op can be incorporated into an overal weak build, but that doesn't make it less op.
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    Lol why do I even care, I don't play anymore.

    It's something that always bothered me when I did play. That and people who bash on "zerglings" always irked me. Just bullies picking on the less experienced or talented

    Check this out btw someone sent me this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YBjQx-LLY
    Edited by GhostofDatthaw on November 23, 2019 1:29PM
  • brandonv516
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    Rianai wrote: »
    I have used Caluurion (and still do occasionally). On a gank build that neither needs to use an ultimate nor Merciless. That set basically removes the need to actually use skills that are meant to be used to burst players down (ofc you can still combine all those for even more burst).

    The reason why i dislike many proc sets (caluurion and zaan especially ) and think they are unbalanced and "carry sets" is that unlike stat sets, they require a lot less player effort to get high value out of it. Stat sets amplify the skill dmg output by a few percent (usually 10% or less). So if someone does not know how to use his skills in oder to generate burst, those sets do nothing for a player. But with sets like Calu or Zaan all a player has to do is press a single button for potential 5-10k+ additional dmg. Yes those sets can be countered, but countering them takes more effort and resources than proccing them. Free dmg should be counterable for free and if players want those proc to land they should have to work for them, eg use cc at the right time, instead of automatically forcing the opponent to burn a quite substantial amount of resources - especially without CP - or outright killing him.

    @fred4

    You said, you don't use Merciless, because it is too difficult to use for you. Actually most proc blades i see don't seem to use it. But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid. The fact that you can use Calu as an easy alternative just reinforces my opinion on the set.

    Magblade might not be the strongest or easiest class right now. But it is not as bad as some here claim, and the class certainly does not need to get carried by proc sets if a players knows how to utilize the tools aviable to the class itself.

    We have burst but it's lost the "boom" it once had.

    Cast time ultimates hurt NBs more than any other class because both our AoE and ST ultimates got the shaft. And there aren't many better options from guild lines either.

    I'm not saying Caluurions is a must but for melee Magblade it's the logical choice. Doesn't make you less of a player for using it - work smarter, not harder.
  • fred4
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    Rianai wrote: »
    But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid.
    I'm saying magblade lacks the ability to combo Assassin's Will with another skill in a single GCD. Other classes have delayed skills. For example, a stamden can hit you with Subterranean and Dawnbreaker of Smiting in the same GCD. If the Dawnbreaker CC works, they will follow that with Executioner while their target is CCd and cannot defend. That's a 3 skill combo with no defense, when it works.

    Magblades used to run Tether combos. This used to be the big payoff. People once said magblades are difficult to learn, but really dangerous. It was, however, only two skills in two GCDs, whereas a warden or most other classes will, these days, fit in 3. That's what the difference is. Assassin's Will had to have a high tooltip to make up for this deficit when you compare it, for example, to magsorc. In addition, back in the day Soul Tether stunned through block. Streak did not. What do we have today? The opposite. Back in the day magblades would use Incap and get the Defile, the stun, the 20% extra damage, and they had Minor Berserk. Back in the day, nightblades also had much better sustain, including stamina sustain from Siphoning Attacks. I never thought about it much, but I suspect the original design team didn't come up with that for no reason. The whole idea was that you could stay on the attack and work up to your burst (Assassin's Will) better than any other class, as Kena once argued in a video on his playstyle. Today? Everything has been cut back so much that you're either a wet noodle or you can't stand your ground. Is it really, really bad? Nah. I'm a solo player and I'm happy to have cloak ... and because I have Caluurion. You might have a point with Caluurion on a templar and Toppling Charge, although I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.
    Edited by fred4 on November 23, 2019 3:16PM
  • Rianai
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    You are right that magblade isn't nearly as strong as it once was. But neither are most other classes. And Merciless is finally good again. Not a delayed burst like other classes have, but NB was never designed with that kind of burst in mind and it was still very strong in the past. And personally i'd rather try to stick closer to the "old" magblade playstyle that you describe well, instead of replacing it with a set. And while it often feels like an uphill battle, i'm currently having more fun with magblade than for like a year. Without Calu ;)

    But of course if you have more fun with different builds, then by all means go for it. Never was i trying to belittle players who use the set or telling anyone to not use it.
  • fred4
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    Rianai wrote: »
    You are right that magblade isn't nearly as strong as it once was. But neither are most other classes. And Merciless is finally good again. Not a delayed burst like other classes have, but NB was never designed with that kind of burst in mind and it was still very strong in the past. And personally i'd rather try to stick closer to the "old" magblade playstyle that you describe well, instead of replacing it with a set. And while it often feels like an uphill battle, i'm currently having more fun with magblade than for like a year. Without Calu ;)

    But of course if you have more fun with different builds, then by all means go for it. Never was i trying to belittle players who use the set or telling anyone to not use it.
    Well, then everything is OK :smile:. I do agree that nightblade is generally very direct and this is why I like the class. Same with templar, not so much with the other magicka classes. There is something very straightforward about having a "damage enhancement" ultimate (Incap / SH) and a class execute. Merciless is the odd one out, though, even with the latest time buff, which will however be very much appreciated, if I ever use the skill.

    I hate being bogged down in a rotation, unable to lineup my burst or take advantage of a situation, because I am busy with housekeeping. It's one of the reasons I much prefer PvP to PvE. My whole build is almost entirely reactive, with only Siphoning Attacks being something I have to keep up for the heals. What procs allow you to do is spec heavily into speed and sustain, because they are unaffected by your stats. That's the playstyle I like. It keeps you actively engaged and focused on your opponent(s) and the terrain, rather than having to be mindful of your resources and looking inward. For example, if I didn't have such high stamina sustain, I'd have to back off into Cloak, Shade, Mist or Meditate much more frequently than I do. I'd find that frustrating and no fun.

    My magicka warden is the antithesis of my magblade. A magicka-stacking stat-based, shielding build, I find warden very rotation heavy and feel extremely detached on that class, like I'm in my own private bubble walking around with my headphones on, so to speak. Warden has a fixed rythm. You're either buffing outright, or you build everything around casting Deep Fissure every 3 seconds. Then you basically lash out and hope your sheer power will put someone in trouble. It's boring af. I realise this is, perhaps, a simplistic view of warden, but feel the newly buffed Northern Storm kind of reinforces that view. I had some success, but I don't play the class much.

    Caluurion enables - or at least fits in with - a more stamina-flavored melee playstyle (mixed ranged / melee really) on magblade, which I find more fun. With pure ranged playstyles, let's say a traditional kiting / Crippling Grasp playstyle, I feel much more disconnected from the game.
    Edited by fred4 on November 23, 2019 5:57PM
  • Metemsycosis
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    Sorry to chip in about magblade but proxy det is very powerful and is considered delayed burst. Ik ik it's not magblade but available nonetheless. And slays when used properly
    Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
    A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer

    sanguinare vampiris

    https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Sorry to chip in about magblade but proxy det is very powerful and is considered delayed burst. Ik ik it's not magblade but available nonetheless. And slays when used properly

    Yea that’s true. I always wondered if you could line up prox det, meteor, elemental weapon plus lotus or merciless. I’m not sure what a build like that would look like though.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Magblades used to run Proxy Det for burst against single targets a long time ago, then ZOS changed the scaling and put a stop to that.
  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    May have been posted before as it's on a popular ESO site, but I started using a build today and I like it. Feel like there's improvements to be made.

    NO-CP Cyro & BGs

    Troll King 1M/1H
    BTB
    War Maiden Inferno Sharpened
    BRP Resto Defending
    7x Impen, 7x Tri-Stat
    3x Arcane, 1x Spell Damage, 2x Mag Recovery
    Witch mother's
    Serpent Mundus
    Dark Elf

    Ele Drain, Lotus Fan, Swallow Soul, Fear, Merciless, Soul Harvest

    Shadow Cloak, Phantasmal, Shade, Siphoning Strikes, Healing Ward, Soul Tether / Resto Ult

    I'm missing Major Sorcery, need to test PvE/Spell Power pots, but I think I'll miss the Health burst.

    Also might swap Phantasmal for RAT for Expedition, I use the prior for raid setup so what I had.
    Edited by ThePedge on November 25, 2019 12:13AM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    May have been posted before as it's on a popular ESO site, but I started using a build today and I like it. Feel like there's improvements to be made.

    NO-CP Cyro & BGs

    Troll King 1M/1H
    BTB
    War Maiden Inferno Sharpened
    BRP Resto Defending
    7x Impen, 7x Tri-Stat
    3x Arcane, 1x Spell Damage, 2x Mag Recovery
    Witch mother's
    Serpent Mundus
    Dark Elf

    Ele Drain, Lotus Fan, Swallow Soul, Fear, Merciless, Soul Harvest

    Shadow Cloak, Phantasmal, Shade, Siphoning Strikes, Healing Ward, Soul Tether / Resto Ult

    I'm missing Major Sorcery, need to test PvE/Spell Power pots, but I think I'll miss the Health burst.

    Also might swap Phantasmal for RAT for Expedition, I use the prior for raid setup so what I had.

    Yea, looks pretty good. Warmaiden and BRB work well. A little on the squishy side for no-CP so would be prone to getting bursted, missing major prophesy too. I’d run SP, health and mag pots so you get the health recovery bonus on troll king.

    I’d also run better in CP then no-CP, no-CP can be really bursty so troll king doesn’t perform well but I imagine it’s meant to proc and take effect while cloak’s up. You can burn down a player in under 4 seconds and health recovery ticks every 2 seconds. That means you’d get maybe one health recovery tick while being bursted. I’ve never been a fan of troll king in no-CP.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 25, 2019 1:16AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    May have been posted before as it's on a popular ESO site, but I started using a build today and I like it. Feel like there's improvements to be made.

    NO-CP Cyro & BGs

    Troll King 1M/1H
    BTB
    War Maiden Inferno Sharpened
    BRP Resto Defending
    7x Impen, 7x Tri-Stat
    3x Arcane, 1x Spell Damage, 2x Mag Recovery
    Witch mother's
    Serpent Mundus
    Dark Elf

    Ele Drain, Lotus Fan, Swallow Soul, Fear, Merciless, Soul Harvest

    Shadow Cloak, Phantasmal, Shade, Siphoning Strikes, Healing Ward, Soul Tether / Resto Ult

    I'm missing Major Sorcery, need to test PvE/Spell Power pots, but I think I'll miss the Health burst.

    Also might swap Phantasmal for RAT for Expedition, I use the prior for raid setup so what I had.

    I think there a definitely some things that could be optimised with this setup. Its hard to get too much more effective spell damage but you can certainly get more off stat without giving up anything. I made a post a while back in this thread about trying to optimise these things (specifically looking at BTB and drinks), but at the risk of repeating myself this is quite a good example of it.

    Looking at what you have, two things stand out to me as non-ideal, namely the serpent mundus and witchmothers potent brew.
    Serpent mundus because generally speaking you can get off-stat sustain from other sources where it is better than a 1:1 tradeoff with something that could be used for your main stat.
    Witchmothers potent brew because it is comparatively low amount of stats in comparison to some other options.

    So, starting with a replacement to the serpent I would look to instead get that stam recovery from Amberplasm. Amberplasm is one of the most stat dense sets available, even more so than BTB, if you value the stam sustain, which it appears you do. So I would be swapping BTB for Amberplasm, which gives you the stam rec in a more efficient way but frees up the mundus choice. A side benefit of this is being no longer tied to drinks.

    This will reduce max mag but that can likely be made up with other changes. It could be as simple as using the Mage mundus, as considering BTB + Serpent swapped to Amberplasm + Mage would be something like -1k mag but +129 spell damage and +833 spell crit, with everything else staying almost the same. But there are probably better options once alternate food/drink is considered.

    In terms of replacing Witchmothers I would consider the highest stat options, so Sugar Skulls or Disastrously Bloody Mara. If going Sugar Skulls it would probably mean changing armour glyphs back to magicka from Prismatic (this is a less efficient choice in isolation, but Sugar Skulls more than makes up for it), whereas Disastrously Bloody Mara would likely keep Prismatics. These options both give more stats, but lack the mag recovery so would likely mean using the atronach mundus and/or adjusting jewellery traits/glyphs. Note the Atronach mundus has the slight advantage over jewellery glyphs of being out of combat sustain.

    Putting all that together what I like the most would be the following:
    Change BTB + WMPB + Serpent + prismatic glyphs to Amber + Sugar Skulls + Atronach + magicka glyphs
    Net effect (before stat multipliers):
    -673 health, +2248 stam, +297 mag
    +462 health rec, -106 mag reg, +12 stam rec
    +129 spell dam, +833 spell crit

    So apart from a small health loss and mag rec loss, everything is better. A small damage boost but the main gains are bonus max stam and health rec.

    You could balance out the mag recovery by changing the trait on one jewellery that has a recovery enchant from arcane to infused, which will lose you 870 mag but gain 100 mag rec. This would be a small magicka loss in comparison to what you have now, but the spell damage and crit gain is definitely more, especially in nocp where spell damage is comparatively more powerful vs max stat.

    Alternatively going Amber + Atronach + Disastrously Bloody Mara and keeping prismatic glyphs would result in getting extra health instead of stam, but max mag would be a bit lower. Depends if you want health or stam - I like stam most of the time, but the extra health may be better to stop being bursted and let Troll King be more effective.
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