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Once Again; BRP Resto and DW both need to be nerfed.
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
No man we're literally talking about using 3 damage sets and still not putting a dent due to BRP weapons. Like what is a Templar supposed to do against that level of AoE mitigation? If someone runs 3 damage sets they should not be shut down by a damn 2 pc.
If I was a templar, I will be strongly against removing BRP DW. Next day after, there will be sea of threads to nerf jabs.1 -
Thorley23_ESO✭✭✭I rarely comment on the forums, but since I'm here due to the event situation I figured I'd comment on this as well.
The be honest I do not think PVP in ESO can be balanced or fixed, and I imagine Zenimax does not feel it can be done either which is why it doesn't even really try. For an MMORPG to have decent PVP, the game needs to be designed from the ground up with PVP in mind as the backbone of design priority in building the game systems, even if the PVP is a sideline within the game. Basically everything needs to be functional and balanced in a PVP environment, and then the rest of the game needs to be designed with those abilities applied to the encounters and such. ESO suffers from the classic design flaw of what was designed as a PVE game trying to make those systmes work in PVP. Even worse it's created certain abilities specifically designed for PVP leading to distinct differences between PVP and PVE builds where what is functional, or a good ability, in one side of the game does not equate to it being the same in the other. At this stage in development things cannot be fixed.
While I enjoy PVP from time to time, I will also say to really work a PVP game requires constant monitoring for both cheating and exploits (with an exploit in many cases simply being using an ability in PVP known to be overpowered before it can be balanced). Ever since the beginning of online RPGs there has been an issue with the people running them not wanting to be "baby sitters" and effectively act as refs for a bunch of mewling man children. You even saw this in the days of MUDS where builders, coders, and "GMs" wanted nothing to do with it, and when games like "Dark Sun Online: Crimson Sands" and "Ultima Online" appeared the GMs and Oracles were quite clear that they felt they were above policing the school yard, not that the company wanted to pay people in the needed numbers to do this to begin with.
At any rate, without that kind of monitoring it means cheating and exploiting are going to be rife, and you are just going to have to get used to the fact that people run around with an "I win" button either through some form of hacking or illegal mod, or exploiting in terms of taking advantage of broken code, or using a combination of abilities that they know gives an advantage over anyone not using an equally broken build (and no, that is not a form of "skill" that's by definition an exploit, as in a level PVP field no combination of abilities should give an undo advantage).
Just like the bad old days in "World Of Warcraft" where you'd have people hide inside the graphic of a mounted tauren (since it was so big) to cap flags in Arathi Basin, or meld into walls and attack, and all kinds of things, or even the "bad old days" of "UO Assist: PVP Tools", you see this fine tradition continuing here where you will hit people and see their health bar not move at all (not being healed through it, simply having the bar not move) and other things), and very specific skills and weapons being used regularly whether it's the two handed weapon line, or the BRP Resto staff.... oh sure Zenimax could do a MASSIVE balance pass, and go on a crusade against cheaters and exploiters, but in the end I don't think there is enough of a PVP community for it to still function after the mass elimination of what is probably going to be a third of the player base (directly or indirectly), it's a gamble as to whether more people would come in once those people were gone and things have changed.
I guess the overall point is that you either need to appreciate the mess that is PVP for what it is, or just not do it. I mean you can QQ about it once in a while (everyone does, including me, sometimes quite a bit), but at the end of the day just need to suck it up. Simply put the problems cannot be dealt with in a game this established without causing even worse problems. They cannot do a massive game re-design (and any minor change or nerf will coorespondingly break other things by simply making something else overpowered in response), and as I said, if they got rid of the predators, cheaters, and exploiters, it would be tantamount to genociding the PVP community for all intents and purposes at this point as a good portion of the regulars (perhaps even the "core audience" from a certain point of view) would all be targeted.
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Mitigation doesn't sum up, all bonuses are calculated on portion of what's left after previous mitigations.
Which is why I said "The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated".
Yes, but total mitigation won't be close to those high numbers until you add resistance and battle spirit.
For your NB example it will be (1-0.1)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.3)*(1-0.08)=63% Now let's say you have 15k resistance after penetration, it will be another 22.7% + battle spirit. So final total mitigation will be (0.37)*(0.773)*(0.5)=85.7% of tooltip+pen.
Now let's calculate the same without major protection:
(0.472)*(0.773)*(0.5)=81.7% of tooltip+penetration
If your enemy aoe spammable has 10k tooltip for example, in no-cp it will deal 1430 damage against major protection and 1830 against NB without major protection. 1430 vs 1830 it is noticeable difference, but certainly not decisive one, when typical bow procs and frags hit for 7-8k.
Of course if target doesn't have any buffs then major protection, impact of it will be much higher, so we may say that this set is more valuable for players with low resistances and with little access to other mitigations. Removing BRP DW will just make same players to invest more in passive defense, and if now you have chance for a burst when BRP DW is down (and of course it is not 100% up in real conditions), when those players will run with 35k resistances+S&B they will be protected to any burst until they have enough stamina for blocking.
I specifically did not mention resistance because some skills like Corrosive and Onslaught bypass them, and certain builds stack 15k+ penetration. Therefore we only need to look at these specific percent mitigation buffs instead of the damage mitigation gained through resistance.
Yesterday I logged on to test Major Protection in a dueling environment. With just resistance buffs at 23k, I received a 3.2k surprise attack. With Major Protection, it was reduced to 2.4k. That's about 25%. Combine everything else we should at least come close to a 40% damage mitigation which is a lot when you consider a 7000 frag will now only hit for 4200. If we just use Major Protection it would still give us about 25% damage mitigation, which now reduces a 7000 frag to 5250. SNB builds are tanky only if they hold block. Without holding block they are nothing more than medium armor targets considering all the penetration people can achieve. That's why percent damage mitigation is so valuable.
Edited by StaticWave on November 14, 2019 9:31PM0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
Actually you can. People can wear 2 damage sets and still be tanky with brp dw.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
No man we're literally talking about using 3 damage sets and still not putting a dent due to BRP weapons. Like what is a Templar supposed to do against that level of AoE mitigation? If someone runs 3 damage sets they should not be shut down by a damn 2 pc.
I run ALL damage and high pen. Only fools I can’t kill in Cyro are troll tanks. And THEY can’t kill me. There’s better stuff to run other than brp DW, and after they nerfed DOTs I don’t need Brp Resto. Seems like it’s a l2p ish.
Nothing needs to be nerfed.Edited by JumpmanLane on November 14, 2019 10:47PM5 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Nerf DOTs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Sorcs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Nbs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Werewolves, because they killed me...
...and the list goes on, and on...
Ffs, people, can you stop for a second ? Soon we wont have nothing left but running in set-less gear and Light attacking each other to death
Not that different from the current state of PVP anyway tbh."You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »WreckfulAbandon wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
No man we're literally talking about using 3 damage sets and still not putting a dent due to BRP weapons. Like what is a Templar supposed to do against that level of AoE mitigation? If someone runs 3 damage sets they should not be shut down by a damn 2 pc.
I run ALL damage and high pen. Only fools I can’t kill in Cyro are troll tanks. And THEY can’t kill me. There’s better stuff to run other than brp DW, and after they nerfed DOTs I don’t need Brp Resto. Seems like it’s a l2p ish.
Name anything better to run on the back bar of a New Moon Acolyte + Truth/Fury/Clever Alc build? If you say Master DW/Bow, or Maelstrom SnB then your argument is invalid because those weapons do not increase defensive capability. We're discussing the effectiveness of BRP DW as a defensive weapon, which it excels at.0 -
AWinterWolf✭✭✭✭Don't nerf the staff, it's another piece of the healer's toolkit that doesn't need nerfing@AWinterWolf, PC EU.
Main character: Healer, CP 1300+,
Completed:
vSS (Ice & Fire HM)
vMoL Trifecta
TTT
vKA HMs
vBRP
All Dungeon Trifectas.
Favourite quote:
History is a story written by the victors, who often paint themselves the best of lights.4 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Just so I understand, these "inferior" players do vBRP to get the weapons they need, which in turn help them survive longer in PVP. And they are inferior because the OP is having a hard time killing them. Therefore, these weapons must be nerfed so superior players, like the OP, can survive against the inferior ones.
You know that the weapons drop from nBRP which can be soloed with ease and only lack a regen bonus compared to the perfected versions?0 -
Pauls✭✭✭✭✭@SenpaiNFT
I made exclusive unique elite build for you, enjoy! From now no one could stand in your path because you will have power of both Blackrose weapons! And dont forget to slot Crown Lethal poison because it has P2W higher chance of applying poisoned effect, as we know
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191473Edited by Pauls on November 15, 2019 12:30AM2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Just so I understand, these "inferior" players do vBRP to get the weapons they need, which in turn help them survive longer in PVP. And they are inferior because the OP is having a hard time killing them. Therefore, these weapons must be nerfed so superior players, like the OP, can survive against the inferior ones.
You know that the weapons drop from nBRP which can be soloed with ease and only lack a regen bonus compared to the perfected versions?
I do. And if you are losing to someone in PVP with those, its not because they have those weapons.6 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After removing a handful of posts for baiting, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil and constructive. Debating and having disagreements is completely acceptable. Baiting other members of the community not, and is a violation of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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I am not saying that protective buffs are not important, it is clear that they are even more important then resistances. But they are more important to players with 20k resistances and unlike resistances, they are temporary, in case of this 2 buffs - it's only 3 seconds. If you won't scare opponent in full defensive rotation, he will try to attack you and if you use hard cc after couple of opponent attacks, major protection will already expire. Also this 2 sets give some sense of confidence to run other sets as damage, which makes opponent more vulnerable to your burst.StaticWave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Mitigation doesn't sum up, all bonuses are calculated on portion of what's left after previous mitigations.
Which is why I said "The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated".
Yes, but total mitigation won't be close to those high numbers until you add resistance and battle spirit.
For your NB example it will be (1-0.1)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.3)*(1-0.08)=63% Now let's say you have 15k resistance after penetration, it will be another 22.7% + battle spirit. So final total mitigation will be (0.37)*(0.773)*(0.5)=85.7% of tooltip+pen.
Now let's calculate the same without major protection:
(0.472)*(0.773)*(0.5)=81.7% of tooltip+penetration
If your enemy aoe spammable has 10k tooltip for example, in no-cp it will deal 1430 damage against major protection and 1830 against NB without major protection. 1430 vs 1830 it is noticeable difference, but certainly not decisive one, when typical bow procs and frags hit for 7-8k.
Of course if target doesn't have any buffs then major protection, impact of it will be much higher, so we may say that this set is more valuable for players with low resistances and with little access to other mitigations. Removing BRP DW will just make same players to invest more in passive defense, and if now you have chance for a burst when BRP DW is down (and of course it is not 100% up in real conditions), when those players will run with 35k resistances+S&B they will be protected to any burst until they have enough stamina for blocking.
I specifically did not mention resistance because some skills like Corrosive and Onslaught bypass them, and certain builds stack 15k+ penetration. Therefore we only need to look at these specific percent mitigation buffs instead of the damage mitigation gained through resistance.
Yesterday I logged on to test Major Protection in a dueling environment. With just resistance buffs at 23k, I received a 3.2k surprise attack. With Major Protection, it was reduced to 2.4k. That's about 25%. Combine everything else we should at least come close to a 40% damage mitigation which is a lot when you consider a 7000 frag will now only hit for 4200. If we just use Major Protection it would still give us about 25% damage mitigation, which now reduces a 7000 frag to 5250. SNB builds are tanky only if they hold block. Without holding block they are nothing more than medium armor targets considering all the penetration people can achieve. That's why percent damage mitigation is so valuable.
As Moonsorrow said - if ZOS will nerf this 2 sets to uselessness, "group" players will just go back to 5-piece protective sets and won't even try to attack you in 1v1 and will go turtle as soon as your turn on them, so there will be no room for counter-attack.
Main reason of this patch "tankiness" is that healing was buffed in U23 to match dots, and then dots were nerfed (as well as dizzy&onslaught) but healing remained the same. But of course "smallscalers" don't want those nice vigor tooltips to be nerfed, so they focus on this 2 sets as core problem. I bet ZOS may nerf this sets and nothing will change in Cyro...2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »I am not saying that protective buffs are not important, it is clear that they are even more important then resistances. But they are more important to players with 20k resistances and unlike resistances, they are temporary, in case of this 2 buffs - it's only 3 seconds. If you won't scare opponent in full defensive rotation, he will try to attack you and if you use hard cc after couple of opponent attacks, major protection will already expire. Also this 2 sets give some sense of confidence to run other sets as damage, which makes opponent more vulnerable to your burst.
Most magicka builds have in excess of 12k penetration. Most stamina builds can easily get over 8k penetration vs a 25k resistance target (some get over 13k with major fracture), I'd say Major Protection is just as important to 25k+ resistance builds as 20k ones. It's not the fact that you can't scare or do damage while being defensive. It's the fact that you can be very effective at mitigating damage with BRP DW. Consider these scenarios:
1/ I use quickcloak just before a warden does shalks + spammable + ult combo
2/ I use quickcloak just before a magblade fires spectral bow
You can argue that blocking or dodge rolling does the same thing, but blocking slows you down which is not very ideal when trying to find line of sight or get away from a group. It also stops you from regening stamina. Dodge rolling has a cost increase and is useless vs aoe damage.MartiniDaniels wrote: »As Moonsorrow said - if ZOS will nerf this 2 sets to uselessness, "group" players will just go back to 5-piece protective sets and won't even try to attack you in 1v1 and will go turtle as soon as your turn on them, so there will be no room for counter-attack.
I am fine with people reverting to a 5 piece defensive set. That just means they sacrificed damage for more mitigation, meaning I will also take less damage. Currently you are not trading off anything when using BRP DW back bar. You can wear 2 damage sets and still be tanky with these weapons.MartiniDaniels wrote: »Main reason of this patch "tankiness" is that healing was buffed in U23 to match dots, and then dots were nerfed (as well as dizzy&onslaught) but healing remained the same. But of course "smallscalers" don't want those nice vigor tooltips to be nerfed, so they focus on this 2 sets as core problem. I bet ZOS may nerf this sets and nothing will change in Cyro...
While I do agree that healing is a major reason for people being more tanky this patch, I do believe BRP DW is a part of the problem as well. Anyone remember the patch when even stamina players used pirate skeleton because it provided so much mitigation? This is similar.2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Like title says. They both make it possible for players of severely inferior skill level to survive MUCH longer then they are supposed to. Major Vitality uptime cannot be that consistent from any other source in the game, and the same goes with Major Protection especially with the (rightful) Pirate and Steadfast nerfs.
It honestly baffles me how these two obviously over-performing weapons have still been untouched. Every good player understands they are over-performing and you can do perfectly fine without them, but with them you become virtually unkillable. Furthermore, with the buffs to healing, Lokestiiz HM has become much easier to heal, to the point where BRP resto is absolutely not needed anymore to successfully heal cages. There is no legitimate reason for these to not get nerfed ZOS.
The devs and people like you are just one of the many why so many of us left the game. Instead of asking for nerfs, get good. People like you gave devs excuses to play Nerf Roulette creating constant uncertainty and long term game instability.
Moving nerfs around does not equal game changing advances.
I came back to forums to see if anything has changed for the better. Obviously not.
4 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
7 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So we have steadfast hero. 25% uptime on major protection, lasts just 2s longer than BRP DW and is 5pc set shich requires you to drop sustain or damage set to use it. Then we have BRP DW which gives you 100% uptime on major protection, and allows you to run 2+5+5 offensive sets on front. Yeah.. looks balanced.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So we have steadfast hero. 25% uptime on major protection, lasts just 2s longer than BRP DW and is 5pc set shich requires you to drop sustain or damage set to use it. Then we have BRP DW which gives you 100% uptime on major protection, and allows you to run 2+5+5 offensive sets on front. Yeah.. looks balanced.
You already know what they did to Steadfast, and things will happen to BRP resto/dw also, once new sets are out.. everyone knows it. And most likely making them useless.
They will be buried on the same graveyard next to Pirate Skeleton.
And yes, i did agree PS was overtuned, it is one i actually agree on that it had like almost zero opportunity cost for its benefit.
I`m just here to try wake people up and remind that no matter what they think are causing people to "live longer thant they should" there always comes a new way, and when not.. the people will then demand big nerfs to the offensive skills that kill them too fast, and suddenly where we are? At the start situation right now since damage is lower.
So.. why?
No one has yet given actual time they approve inferior people are allowed to live. So what IS the TTK you yeetgang are trying to drive the game towards in the name of being honest about it?
Mayrael, this is not directed at you.. but, has the yeetgang not realized that they are just being both toxic to their fellow pvp players (calling them inferior and just trying to make farming puglings even easier) and harmful to the game? You will cause big damage skill nerfs after constant defense set nerfs. It will happen, i will be here to remind you about it then.
But yeah, i`m out.. this gets a bit tiresome.
PS. I know the nerfgang not that much care about PVE side of things, but nerfing all the defensive sets (you know more will come after this) after another WILL lead to damage skills nerfed and big cost increases and thus making pve endgame less fun too. Soon everything is about sustain gimmicks, heavy attacks and weird things as spammables, dots cost half your stat bar. I know you do not care. Future not look that bright with all this selfishness. I mean, is it that bad to spend 2 seconds longer to kill someone and have a more healthy game for everyone?
Edited by Moonsorrow on November 15, 2019 12:01PM5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »So we have steadfast hero. 25% uptime on major protection, lasts just 2s longer than BRP DW and is 5pc set shich requires you to drop sustain or damage set to use it. Then we have BRP DW which gives you 100% uptime on major protection, and allows you to run 2+5+5 offensive sets on front. Yeah.. looks balanced.
You already know what they did to Steadfast, and things will happen to BRP resto/dw also, once new sets are out.. everyone knows it. And most likely making them useless.
They will be buried on the same graveyard next to Pirate Skeleton.
And yes, i did agree PS was overtuned, it is one i actually agree on that it had like almost zero opportunity cost for its benefit.
I`m just here to try wake people up and remind that no matter what they think are causing people to "live longer thant they should" there always comes a new way, and when not.. the people will then demand big nerfs to the offensive skills that kill them too fast, and suddenly where we are? At the start situation right now since damage is lower.
So.. why?
No one has yet given actual time they approve inferior people are allowed to live. So what IS the TTK you yeetgang are trying to drive the game towards in the name of being honest about it?
Mayrael, this is not directed at you.. but, has the yeetgang not realized that they are just being both toxic to their fellow pvp players (calling them inferior and just trying to make farming puglings even easier) and harmful to the game? You will cause big damage skill nerfs after constant defense set nerfs. It will happen, i will be here to remind you about it then.
But yeah, i`m out.. this gets a bit tiresome.
I totally agree with you. We can blame ZOS for not knowing how to adjust things instead of making them completly useless. I don't want BRP weapons to get useless, it's just about people shifting from one meta to the other, when disparities are so obvious people still go for max cheese and steps ZOS did are not solving any issues. Id prefer to bring back steadfast and pirate closer to the place where they were before nerf but nerf instead major protecion, but this won't going to happen and we are left now with few sets that are far more better than others. Because we can expect that Troll King and Pariah will get nerfed to, I think we can't forget about these two weapon sets that are also clearly superior to other options.Edited by Mayrael on November 15, 2019 11:55AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore. 3 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore.
I guess people are more prone to spread animosity when they hide in anonymity.
You fail to see how a game that offers absolutely no incentive to get better doesn't get boring with time?
Even comparing it with chess is laughable, the chess equivalent to brp weapons would be that a toddler can draw with Magnus just by throwing the board away and then say he could do the same.
There aren't any sets neither a single 2pc or a 5pc set which come close to brp weapons.
Other defensive 5pc sets like swift offer 1/3rd of the mitigation major protection does.
Pariah at best adds 13k resistances which means ~20% damage mitigation when ignoring all other things.
Same with major vitality there is nothing that could compete and there is no opportunity cost for running them.
I run 2 offensive sets+bloodspawn+ brp Dw with no drawback at all.
Anyone not running brp weapons on specs who benefit form them is playing an inferior build.0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore.
I guess people are more prone to spread animosity when they hide in anonymity.
You fail to see how a game that offers absolutely no incentive to get better doesn't get boring with time?
Even comparing it with chess is laughable, the chess equivalent to brp weapons would be that a toddler can draw with Magnus just by throwing the board away and then say he could do the same.
There aren't any sets neither a single 2pc or a 5pc set which come close to brp weapons.
Other defensive 5pc sets like swift offer 1/3rd of the mitigation major protection does.
Pariah at best adds 13k resistances which means ~20% damage mitigation when ignoring all other things.
Same with major vitality there is nothing that could compete and there is no opportunity cost for running them.
I run 2 offensive sets+bloodspawn+ brp Dw with no drawback at all.
Anyone not running brp weapons on specs who benefit form them is playing an inferior build.
Animosity? Oh please.. you and the op were the ones calling people "inferior" who use "training wheels" sets/skills.
And now you say you are using the same "training wheel" and thus.. being one of the "inferior" people? But since "inferior people" live longer than they should with those sets (that you use), your whole point here is to.. nerf yourself?
Okay..
If was not this lazy, i`d attach the picture of a cat putting its paw on top your hand saying it is time to stop posting now. Because asking to nerf yourself and after that everyone else (pve also) with offensive nerfs, maybe its better to think this through again? 6 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore.
I guess people are more prone to spread animosity when they hide in anonymity.
You fail to see how a game that offers absolutely no incentive to get better doesn't get boring with time?
Even comparing it with chess is laughable, the chess equivalent to brp weapons would be that a toddler can draw with Magnus just by throwing the board away and then say he could do the same.
There aren't any sets neither a single 2pc or a 5pc set which come close to brp weapons.
Other defensive 5pc sets like swift offer 1/3rd of the mitigation major protection does.
Pariah at best adds 13k resistances which means ~20% damage mitigation when ignoring all other things.
Same with major vitality there is nothing that could compete and there is no opportunity cost for running them.
I run 2 offensive sets+bloodspawn+ brp Dw with no drawback at all.
Anyone not running brp weapons on specs who benefit form them is playing an inferior build.
Animosity? Oh please.. you and the op were the ones calling people "inferior" who use "training wheels" sets/skills.
And now you say you are using the same "training wheel" and thus.. being one of the "inferior" people? But since "inferior people" live longer than they should with those sets (that you use), your whole point here is to.. nerf yourself?
Okay..
If was not this lazy, i`d attach the picture of a cat putting its paw on top your hand saying it is time to stop posting now. Because asking to nerf yourself and after that everyone else (pve also) with offensive nerfs, maybe its better to think this through again?
So you still haven't manned up...
I'm not going to hinder myself by not running brp weapons in a patch where everyone else is running them. But i will do everything to get them removed from the game so inferior people get the clapping they deserve.Edited by BohnT2 on November 15, 2019 1:14PM2 -
DaNnYtHePcFrEaK✭✭✭Like title says. They both make it possible for players of severely inferior skill level to survive MUCH longer then they are supposed to. Major Vitality uptime cannot be that consistent from any other source in the game, and the same goes with Major Protection especially with the (rightful) Pirate and Steadfast nerfs.
It honestly baffles me how these two obviously over-performing weapons have still been untouched. Every good player understands they are over-performing and you can do perfectly fine without them, but with them you become virtually unkillable. Furthermore, with the buffs to healing, Lokestiiz HM has become much easier to heal, to the point where BRP resto is absolutely not needed anymore to successfully heal cages. There is no legitimate reason for these to not get nerfed ZOS.
So people who are PROGRESSING lokk HM have to suffer because some dude uses it in pvp and you can't kill him?4 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore.
I guess people are more prone to spread animosity when they hide in anonymity.
You fail to see how a game that offers absolutely no incentive to get better doesn't get boring with time?
Even comparing it with chess is laughable, the chess equivalent to brp weapons would be that a toddler can draw with Magnus just by throwing the board away and then say he could do the same.
There aren't any sets neither a single 2pc or a 5pc set which come close to brp weapons.
Other defensive 5pc sets like swift offer 1/3rd of the mitigation major protection does.
Pariah at best adds 13k resistances which means ~20% damage mitigation when ignoring all other things.
Same with major vitality there is nothing that could compete and there is no opportunity cost for running them.
I run 2 offensive sets+bloodspawn+ brp Dw with no drawback at all.
Anyone not running brp weapons on specs who benefit form them is playing an inferior build.
Animosity? Oh please.. you and the op were the ones calling people "inferior" who use "training wheels" sets/skills.
And now you say you are using the same "training wheel" and thus.. being one of the "inferior" people? But since "inferior people" live longer than they should with those sets (that you use), your whole point here is to.. nerf yourself?
Okay..
If was not this lazy, i`d attach the picture of a cat putting its paw on top your hand saying it is time to stop posting now. Because asking to nerf yourself and after that everyone else (pve also) with offensive nerfs, maybe its better to think this through again?
So you still haven't manned up...
I'm not going to hinder myself that much by not running brp weapons in a patch where everyone else is running them. But i will do everything to get them removed from the game so inferior people get the clapping they deserve.
Hope i won`t be "manning up" ever if that includes loss of basic logics since it seems hard for you to admit that:
1. After this you will go after the next thing that makes someone survive your "clapping" for more than.. how many seconds it was they are allowed to live?
2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
So again i ask.. why? Is it really that hard to admit possibly being wrong or that cannot see consequences for longer time than 1 patch?
People often blame ZOS when they do some changes and go all "well, you did not think this through did you?" and "Why you never listen?" ..well how about thinking this through thoroughly yourself?
But tell you what. Lets make a deal, i`ll accept nerfs to these 2 things if you and your mateys after it stop there and not go after just more and more things.. but i know you will. Nothing is ever enough until both pvp and pve community just dies out and only group at empty Cyrodiil is your crew wheeling around on your ram.
Do you think the people who you call "inferior" play this game to be your AP farm? If they die in 1 second repeatedly they either leave or go in mass to demand nerfs to the things that kill them that fast, and nerfs happen fast when big enough mass demands them. How can you just not admit this would happen?
So, you would end up demolishing offensive skills/sets many of us like in that process - why would i and others have to suffer that just because you and your buddies have problems killing someone fast enough to your standards?7 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
I am everyday waiting for that moment when they realize that chain reaction these nerfs cause and have been for a while now. The game does not change into their favor or what they imagine it will be if these 2 sets get destroyed. It just leads to demanding the next sets nerfed and nothing changes except others demanded the skills they use nerfed since no way to defend more than 1 second. ZOS wants people to enjoy pvp, it their calculations that enjoyment should take longer than 1 second i`d guess even without knowing full details. But them making ganking harder and harder tells about that.
Its almost comical they do not understand it. Can any of you who want these (and many other things) nerfed honestly answer and describe what would happen if your wish came true? How would the people using these now react and adapt? I know that deep down you know the answer.
Or.. some might have had a dream or illusion that this would turn pvp into balanced paradise where you can kill "inferior" players in a second. I can tell you, people would adapt..
The people with now 25-26k hp with 1 damage set and special weapons would just go like 30-40k hp on Pariah, Plague Doctor; Blood Spawn, Troll King, Malubeth, neeerff soRc, Engine Guardian neeerff, Nerf Reactive, and other tanky ways to use more hp/regen as buffer to not die instead of Major Protection, shielding proc sets.. so then go demand them nerfed next, huh? "Yes yes NeeeEEEeRf!"
Should it be just better to stop this chain reaction already..? Does the nerf demands stop when pvp combat result is always just decided by numbers or who gets to hit first because everyone is allowed to only wear paper armor?
And i know personally these items have their uses yes and are strong. But, again - you are wrong if you think taking these out will change the game into something you vision it to become. You know you would be here to make similar posts soon just about something else, on and on. If still cannot accept that fact, you know its about ego then.
I wish a good weekend for everyone though since its like almost friday here, have fun whatever you all are doing! Good discussions ladies and gentlemen!
What a good idea to list sets like Trollking and pariah which are both overtuned aswell and have been all the time.
First of all the change of yeeting brp resto /DW would remove 2 sets which are on a power level that not a single set alone can reach, not even 2 sets come close not even talking about the opportunity costs that are required to run sets worth of 7 pieces on both bars.
The weapons offer the best defence out there with little to no opportunity cost.
People going 35-40k health +pariah will still not survive as long and in order to do so they give up huge amounts of sustain and damage.
Inferior players deserve to be crushed every single time till they actually learn to play and not have sets keep them alive or get kills for them.
They are inferior
Well to be honest, personally i`ve not had any troubles on killing anyone using BRP Resto/DW, so i guess that more just tells about you and your buddies having inferiority issues? Tip: Have you tried CC and having damage on your build?
Oh well, see you on Cyrodiil again - will try to remember doing /shovel emote or something the next time ending your inferior gameplay.
The stubborness on this topic is too strong so time for this witch to fly away from it with her vBRP broom.
Maybe i`ll go touch someone with Vamp Drain, the bane of ESO. Oohlala...
I doubt i have ever seen you in game but keep up your baiting because you're too stubborn to call out your training wheels.
Also 10/10 reply to the topic as you have yet to add anything constructive.
My forum name obviously is not same as ingame @.
There is no baiting in trying to defend the health of this game for everyone. I actually like to see everyone having fun, be it at pvp or pve. I actually starting to think you believe your vision would make the game better.. but do not see the consequences it has.
Imagine the skills, sets and mechanics of ESO as a game of chess against a good opponent. If you go on offensive with your Knights and take out couple of Pawns (defensive sets), be ready to lose your Knights (offensive sets and/or damage skills nerfed).
Dont think i can say it in a more simple and constructive way anymore.
I guess people are more prone to spread animosity when they hide in anonymity.
You fail to see how a game that offers absolutely no incentive to get better doesn't get boring with time?
Even comparing it with chess is laughable, the chess equivalent to brp weapons would be that a toddler can draw with Magnus just by throwing the board away and then say he could do the same.
There aren't any sets neither a single 2pc or a 5pc set which come close to brp weapons.
Other defensive 5pc sets like swift offer 1/3rd of the mitigation major protection does.
Pariah at best adds 13k resistances which means ~20% damage mitigation when ignoring all other things.
Same with major vitality there is nothing that could compete and there is no opportunity cost for running them.
I run 2 offensive sets+bloodspawn+ brp Dw with no drawback at all.
Anyone not running brp weapons on specs who benefit form them is playing an inferior build.
Animosity? Oh please.. you and the op were the ones calling people "inferior" who use "training wheels" sets/skills.
And now you say you are using the same "training wheel" and thus.. being one of the "inferior" people? But since "inferior people" live longer than they should with those sets (that you use), your whole point here is to.. nerf yourself?
Okay..
If was not this lazy, i`d attach the picture of a cat putting its paw on top your hand saying it is time to stop posting now. Because asking to nerf yourself and after that everyone else (pve also) with offensive nerfs, maybe its better to think this through again?
So you still haven't manned up...
I'm not going to hinder myself that much by not running brp weapons in a patch where everyone else is running them. But i will do everything to get them removed from the game so inferior people get the clapping they deserve.
Hope i won`t be "manning up" ever if that includes loss of basic logics since it seems hard for you to admit that:
1. After this you will go after the next thing that makes someone survive your "clapping" for more than.. how many seconds it was they are allowed to live?
2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
So again i ask.. why? Is it really that hard to admit possibly being wrong or that cannot see consequences for longer time than 1 patch?
People often blame ZOS when they do some changes and go all "well, you did not think this through did you?" and "Why you never listen?" ..well how about thinking this through thoroughly yourself?
But tell you what. Lets make a deal, i`ll accept nerfs to these 2 things if you and your mateys after it stop there and not go after just more and more things.. but i know you will. Nothing is ever enough until both pvp and pve community just dies out and only group at empty Cyrodiil is your crew wheeling around on your ram.
Do you think the people who you call "inferior" play this game to be your AP farm? If they die in 1 second repeatedly they either leave or go in mass to demand nerfs to the things that kill them that fast, and nerfs happen fast when big enough mass demands them. How can you just not admit this would happen?
So, you would end up demolishing offensive skills/sets many of us like in that process - why would i and others have to suffer that just because you and your buddies have problems killing someone fast enough to your standards?
I have a better deal, you tell me your @name, I'll go for a duel with you.
I don't want to waste my time with someone who isn't even confident enough for take responsibility for his claims in game1
