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Once Again; BRP Resto and DW both need to be nerfed.
-
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was looking for options what to use instead of BRP DW and saw guys suggested potentates S&B.
Now if we use low slash instead of quick cloak, total additional mitigation will be:
1900+1500 resistances/660=5% reduction
potentates=5% reduction
maim=15% reduction
Let's multiply them: 0.95*0.95*0.85=0.767. ->23.5% mitigation. Of course we are not getting major evasion, but duration is not 3 seconds either. And now you may block twice long with 20% (or 30% in case of DK) more efficiency.
So far I may say that BRP DW is more of 1vX weapon then 1v1. In 1v1 you don't need that much mobility and if 1vXer rushes on "potato", we potatoes have much higher to survive with S&B then with DW. But in case when you are disengaging from the crowd or smallscale of course BRP DW is much better.
Nerfing this set will not decrease tankiness or TTK in Cyro, you will just see more players block healing through your burst and less active and mobile players.3 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.Edited by JumpmanLane on November 17, 2019 1:31AM2 -
thegreat_one✭✭✭✭Honestly the only people who run these are small mans who can utilize these buffs correctly. They can sit and take damage while u run outta resources and then they go in for the kill.
Picking a target is part of Pvp.
As a magblade I am not going to hit a DK with 30k+ health because he can recover from my attack and I won't be able to run away. So I try to Dot them up because they usually don't have purge.
Sorcs can spam shields so im careful about that, if they have a pet I always attack those if I can cause the sorc will run away sometimes!
Wardens / necros are pretty tanky, etc etc,
Templars purge and heal so dots are quickly cleaned, but they sometimes do not have alot of health so a burst attack can work.
Anyone in a tower is going to LOS the *** outta everyone.
I think about a fight I may get into before I attack.
2 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Moonsorrow or more like Maphusail
Well that is not nice at all!
?
Would be nice to know what does that mean? Some slang or word in a language i have no idea what Bohn just called me?
So can like react accordingly.. english is obviously not my 1st language so can admit not knowing all the most exotic words.
1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESOs PvP community has reached meme status.Edited by Vapirko on November 17, 2019 3:28PM4 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »@Moonsorrow or more like Maphusail
Well that is not nice at all!
?
Would be nice to know what does that mean? Some slang or word in a language i have no idea what Bohn just called me?
So can like react accordingly.. english is obviously not my 1st language so can admit not knowing all the most exotic words.
No that was my guess what your @name in game was.0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can see the mentality in PVE with this patch, people with no sustain wondering why they run out of mats, people wondering why they can't just click something with a dot and instagib it. It doesn't benefit them because now that they're gone instead of changing their build slightly or play style they go straight to the forums.
We've all already changed our builds in PvE because we're not morons. It didn't make this trashcan of a patch any less ridiculous, so yeah, we did go to the forums AFTER race changing to Breton [insert other sustain race here] and rekitting healers for more sustain. Nice uninformed dig though.Moonsorrow wrote: »2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
But isn´t the point that the devs when looking at pvp make the concious decision to not let this happen?
People have been sugarcoated by easy to use defensive mechanics way too long. They need to be brought to the mindset when entering pvp that they will eventually die to other players - and that this is an ok thing to happen. That´s why they enter a pvp zone in the first place.
Not dying as a main goal for the player is an antithesis of pvp and people need to be taught that again. This goes for smallscale "roxxors" aswell as the "trashcans".
Building to live instead of to kill is not building for pvp. It´s carebear mentality - no matter who does it.
Mechanics should not endorse not dying. They should make it prohibitively difficult over extended periods of time.
While I 100% agree with the bolded sentiment, the majority of solutions can't be applied to this game because unfortunately PvP and PvE share the same gear and skills, and stripping defensive abilities from PvP would cause massive problems in PvE. The only solution I can see is to remove all major buffs and debuffs from PvP via battle spirit, and only make certain ones available through the Assault or Support skill lines, like Major Expedition (rapids).
I do firmly believe though that players will still crutch where they can, and will find other creative ways to build for super survival. I'm sick to death of coming up against immortal stambois in heavy armor who can still hit like trucks and move at super speed because ZOS can't properly balance specs any more than they can balance arenas (PvP/PvE), but I don't ever expect that to change, so I've just learned to walk away and find another target. It's just not that big of a deal any more.
Not sure what part you think is uninformed. This is like the 4th thread about the same crying. Z,JumpmanLane wrote: »Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.
So if they're overpowered how do you fix them without nerfing them?0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can see the mentality in PVE with this patch, people with no sustain wondering why they run out of mats, people wondering why they can't just click something with a dot and instagib it. It doesn't benefit them because now that they're gone instead of changing their build slightly or play style they go straight to the forums.
We've all already changed our builds in PvE because we're not morons. It didn't make this trashcan of a patch any less ridiculous, so yeah, we did go to the forums AFTER race changing to Breton [insert other sustain race here] and rekitting healers for more sustain. Nice uninformed dig though.Moonsorrow wrote: »2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
But isn´t the point that the devs when looking at pvp make the concious decision to not let this happen?
People have been sugarcoated by easy to use defensive mechanics way too long. They need to be brought to the mindset when entering pvp that they will eventually die to other players - and that this is an ok thing to happen. That´s why they enter a pvp zone in the first place.
Not dying as a main goal for the player is an antithesis of pvp and people need to be taught that again. This goes for smallscale "roxxors" aswell as the "trashcans".
Building to live instead of to kill is not building for pvp. It´s carebear mentality - no matter who does it.
Mechanics should not endorse not dying. They should make it prohibitively difficult over extended periods of time.
While I 100% agree with the bolded sentiment, the majority of solutions can't be applied to this game because unfortunately PvP and PvE share the same gear and skills, and stripping defensive abilities from PvP would cause massive problems in PvE. The only solution I can see is to remove all major buffs and debuffs from PvP via battle spirit, and only make certain ones available through the Assault or Support skill lines, like Major Expedition (rapids).
I do firmly believe though that players will still crutch where they can, and will find other creative ways to build for super survival. I'm sick to death of coming up against immortal stambois in heavy armor who can still hit like trucks and move at super speed because ZOS can't properly balance specs any more than they can balance arenas (PvP/PvE), but I don't ever expect that to change, so I've just learned to walk away and find another target. It's just not that big of a deal any more.
Not sure what part you think is uninformed. This is like the 4th thread about the same crying. Z,JumpmanLane wrote: »Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.
So if they're overpowered how do you fix them without nerfing them?
DOTS were fine. They should have left them alone in the first place. After realizing their mistakes they should have reverted the overtuned buffs. Instead, they nerfed dots into the ground.
I’m not even going to get into defile, bleeds, or oblivion damage...
Brp weapons aren’t op. The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt. Yet, nerflings still begging ZOS for nerfs.
If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds.Edited by JumpmanLane on November 18, 2019 5:21AM3 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can see the mentality in PVE with this patch, people with no sustain wondering why they run out of mats, people wondering why they can't just click something with a dot and instagib it. It doesn't benefit them because now that they're gone instead of changing their build slightly or play style they go straight to the forums.
We've all already changed our builds in PvE because we're not morons. It didn't make this trashcan of a patch any less ridiculous, so yeah, we did go to the forums AFTER race changing to Breton [insert other sustain race here] and rekitting healers for more sustain. Nice uninformed dig though.Moonsorrow wrote: »2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
But isn´t the point that the devs when looking at pvp make the concious decision to not let this happen?
People have been sugarcoated by easy to use defensive mechanics way too long. They need to be brought to the mindset when entering pvp that they will eventually die to other players - and that this is an ok thing to happen. That´s why they enter a pvp zone in the first place.
Not dying as a main goal for the player is an antithesis of pvp and people need to be taught that again. This goes for smallscale "roxxors" aswell as the "trashcans".
Building to live instead of to kill is not building for pvp. It´s carebear mentality - no matter who does it.
Mechanics should not endorse not dying. They should make it prohibitively difficult over extended periods of time.
While I 100% agree with the bolded sentiment, the majority of solutions can't be applied to this game because unfortunately PvP and PvE share the same gear and skills, and stripping defensive abilities from PvP would cause massive problems in PvE. The only solution I can see is to remove all major buffs and debuffs from PvP via battle spirit, and only make certain ones available through the Assault or Support skill lines, like Major Expedition (rapids).
I do firmly believe though that players will still crutch where they can, and will find other creative ways to build for super survival. I'm sick to death of coming up against immortal stambois in heavy armor who can still hit like trucks and move at super speed because ZOS can't properly balance specs any more than they can balance arenas (PvP/PvE), but I don't ever expect that to change, so I've just learned to walk away and find another target. It's just not that big of a deal any more.
Not sure what part you think is uninformed. This is like the 4th thread about the same crying. Z,JumpmanLane wrote: »Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.
So if they're overpowered how do you fix them without nerfing them?
DOTS were fine. They should have left them alone in the first place. After realizing their mistakes they should have reverted the overtuned buffs. Instead, they nerfed dots into the ground.
I’m not even going to get into defile, bleeds, or oblivion damage...
Brp weapons aren’t op. The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt. Yet, nerflings still begging ZOS for nerfs.
If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds.
DOTS were not fine lol that is why they got nerfed they way they did. DOTs are meant to be added damage over time, not your sole source of all DPS.
"The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt."
PVP disagrees with you.
"If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds."
How does that work? So instead of nerfing things you just overbuff them? Wouldn't that just lead to the same problems but opposite? How does that actually solve anything?1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok let's explain to thos "AsK fOr BuFFs nOt nErFS" geniuses.
Lets imagine power of sets is a line, each sign is a set.
~~~_~~~^~~~~^~~~~~_~~~~^~~~~
If most of the sets are in medium state ~ what is easier to do? Buff all medium ~ and underperforming _ sets or just nerf those overperforming? Which action will cause more balance issues? Changing over 100 sets or just a few? Even when we assume sets in ESO are more like this:
___~_^__~^~~____~_~_~__^~~__~~~~_
It would require to buff all sets that are low _ and medium ~ to the level of ^ to make things balanced. Can you imagine what a balance nightmare it would be with company like ZOS?
Same threads were created with, bleeds, spin2win, enchants, dots etc. etc. People who are using those things always defend them shouting "no more nerfs!", while asking for nerfs few threads below for "nerfing sorcs / cloak / scales" etc. etc. That's why its not about opinions but facts, and facts are these 2 sets are way to reliable source of unlimited powerfull buffs and what is also very important, these are 2 part sets that can be backbared which makes them extremly good, as you don't need to sacrafice anything to run them. You can go full ofensive build, then swap and go turtle mode when needed.
I know, I know "but fun..." - yes it's fun to use strong sets... untill everyone starts to run them. What is REALLY fun in ESO is diversity, each fight can be different. But, when some things are overperforming ESO changes into CS match, where everyone runs the same things.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can see the mentality in PVE with this patch, people with no sustain wondering why they run out of mats, people wondering why they can't just click something with a dot and instagib it. It doesn't benefit them because now that they're gone instead of changing their build slightly or play style they go straight to the forums.
We've all already changed our builds in PvE because we're not morons. It didn't make this trashcan of a patch any less ridiculous, so yeah, we did go to the forums AFTER race changing to Breton [insert other sustain race here] and rekitting healers for more sustain. Nice uninformed dig though.Moonsorrow wrote: »2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
But isn´t the point that the devs when looking at pvp make the concious decision to not let this happen?
People have been sugarcoated by easy to use defensive mechanics way too long. They need to be brought to the mindset when entering pvp that they will eventually die to other players - and that this is an ok thing to happen. That´s why they enter a pvp zone in the first place.
Not dying as a main goal for the player is an antithesis of pvp and people need to be taught that again. This goes for smallscale "roxxors" aswell as the "trashcans".
Building to live instead of to kill is not building for pvp. It´s carebear mentality - no matter who does it.
Mechanics should not endorse not dying. They should make it prohibitively difficult over extended periods of time.
While I 100% agree with the bolded sentiment, the majority of solutions can't be applied to this game because unfortunately PvP and PvE share the same gear and skills, and stripping defensive abilities from PvP would cause massive problems in PvE. The only solution I can see is to remove all major buffs and debuffs from PvP via battle spirit, and only make certain ones available through the Assault or Support skill lines, like Major Expedition (rapids).
I do firmly believe though that players will still crutch where they can, and will find other creative ways to build for super survival. I'm sick to death of coming up against immortal stambois in heavy armor who can still hit like trucks and move at super speed because ZOS can't properly balance specs any more than they can balance arenas (PvP/PvE), but I don't ever expect that to change, so I've just learned to walk away and find another target. It's just not that big of a deal any more.
Not sure what part you think is uninformed. This is like the 4th thread about the same crying. Z,JumpmanLane wrote: »Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.
So if they're overpowered how do you fix them without nerfing them?
DOTS were fine. They should have left them alone in the first place. After realizing their mistakes they should have reverted the overtuned buffs. Instead, they nerfed dots into the ground.
I’m not even going to get into defile, bleeds, or oblivion damage...
Brp weapons aren’t op. The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt. Yet, nerflings still begging ZOS for nerfs.
If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds.
DOTS were not fine lol that is why they got nerfed they way they did. DOTs are meant to be added damage over time, not your sole source of all DPS.
"The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt."
PVP disagrees with you.
"If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds."
How does that work? So instead of nerfing things you just overbuff them? Wouldn't that just lead to the same problems but opposite? How does that actually solve anything?
He means that DOTs were overtuned and could have been balanced with a less severe damage reduction. They were quite effective on Tank builds but were too strong from multiple sources at once.1 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭chetter_hummin wrote: »We are talking about 3 seconds of buffs, which comes at a 5 set cost on the respective bar and ut costs over 3k resources to cast. Better just get good instead of complaining on forums.
YES ! you have beer sir ! L2P issue! keeping these buffs isnt for free... bet complainers cant rock with it so thinking it should be nerferd... if i can't no1 can't
90% of nerf asks re L2P issue.
I played as magsorc once...maybe 2 of 50 players killed bird first then attack me ... others... run like drunked kids in the fog!
once more ! L2P!2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No it does not need to get nerfed. It takes up a 5 piece bonus set, its duration is extremely short (3 sec) and in the case of dual wield comes at the cost of over 3K stamina. In addition, if you are attributing someone's tankiness to a 3 sec duration, then perhaps the real question you ask yourself is: "Why am I unable to kill someone outside of this 3 second window that is costly on their resources?"
There're alot of good sets for stamina and magicka that can easily be slotted on 1 bar only. Sure if you desperately need two 5 piece bonuses active constantly then yes, it's a trade of running vBRP DW/Resto, but those situations are easily counted on one hand.
And why do people act like these weapons are someone's only source of defense? These weapons acts as "amplifiers", which are too strong in comparison to how easy accessible they're. I'd rather see these weapons being something unique instead of giving generic major buffs. Just look at the maelstrom weapons, asulym weapkns or the other blackrose weapons. They offee unique features that aren't overtuned, but still useful in certain situations.
The more powerful buff/debuff the harder it should be to access if you ask me.2 -
drkfrontiers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove all sets/ weapons from PvP.
Let them fight with Iron weapons only.
Bam! Problem solved."One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche4 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No it does not need to get nerfed. It takes up a 5 piece bonus set, its duration is extremely short (3 sec) and in the case of dual wield comes at the cost of over 3K stamina. In addition, if you are attributing someone's tankiness to a 3 sec duration, then perhaps the real question you ask yourself is: "Why am I unable to kill someone outside of this 3 second window that is costly on their resources?"
No it doesn't and duration doesn't matter when it has no CD and/or downsides unlike its 5-piece brothers steadfast hero, daedric trickery, and ironblood, or 2-piece brother pirate skeleton.
Also costly on resources? Is that a joke? How much does quick cloak cost after 5 piece medium armor?
Also, it's so costly that mag chars are using it this patch...Yeah...0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »@Moonsorrow or more like Maphusail
Well that is not nice at all!
?
Would be nice to know what does that mean? Some slang or word in a language i have no idea what Bohn just called me?
So can like react accordingly.. english is obviously not my 1st language so can admit not knowing all the most exotic words.
No that was my guess what your @name in game was.
Oh, then can say that no. Not even start with the letter M ingame so you would end up guessing for a long time i think.
You trying to find my Discord, Whatsapp, phone number and home address too or what is this all about?
What next? Running around with childrens Little Detective Kit toy box trying to hunt me down?
You’re Moonsorrow, same forum name and in game name, ZOS does not allow impersonation therefore if you are not Moonsorrow your forum account would be banned.
lol? Like half of my friends and anyone i know have totally different forum and account name. "Impersonation"..
And yes, i have more than 1 account in game. So does many who are altoholics liking to make new characters with this small ESO character amount limit and/or dislike the 5 guilds limit and so on. And it is allowed to have more than 1 account.
I`m starting to have a feeling you lot know the forum/account link rules and realities as badly as you know the in game combat realities and consequences.
Okay Moonsorrow, there’s no need to hide, we know it’s you. Be true to yourself, you can come out, it’s ok.
I still have no idea why are you even trying to identify my @ names in game.. to send caps lock rage messages or mail, or endless "come duel me bruh" requests?
And that reason in itself is more than enough reasons for me to stay as illusive as i play with my magblade, so no thanks to that.
You can try all your best to turn this whole nerf request topic about my identity since apparently you are so out of anything useful to say to make your case against the things i said.. so what you got left is personal attacks anymore soon i guess?
And.. as you deep down know yourself as everyone else does too, you seem to be at that point right now.
Here on forums atleast we have nice mods to clean up things if you end up going all caps lock rage, in game i rather have my sweet freedom of semi-anonymity and play in peace.
Because there are people who know my discord and stuff, but they are the kind of people who one can talk with about anything and they actually can think beyond their selfish needs and see the big picture.
I know it hurts the ego, and it can be part of human nature to attack someone as a person if you cannot deny their words. Politicians do it too, elections can be won occasionally by dirty campaigns instead of actually caring at all about the issues everyone has to live with.
I`m here to defend the game that i love, for both pvp and pve and have said my opinion - while you are here for asking things to be nerfed and when people not agree you are trying to identify them, for what? For some dirty political campaign? Okay..3 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[Quoted post has been removed.]
I guess that would be the type of messages i would get in game if my @ name was known, huh?
It is not like i am 100% against all nerfs, i did agree on things like Pirate Skeleton for many reasons.
What i am against though is making changes that will just affect pve too, and/or not really affect pvp in the end after everyone just adapts to it and/or it will just in near future make nerfs to offensive skills to balance out the nerfed defensive sets/skills just to end up on the starting point but with just possibly destroyed sets/skills on both defensive and offensive choices.
But i guess too hard concept to understand. Better to just "nerf everything" and be where the game is and is heading even more (read= not fun) that has happened exactly because of changes like that without thinking them through. Easy to blame ZOS about them when it actually is a group of people asking for them constantly.
So please, keep typing in your special style.. not gonna change the facts. Just saying.
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 18, 2019 7:09PM4 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Why are people always asking for gear to be nerfed, when it's always the underlying Major buffs/debuffs that are the real problem?
If all Major buffs were reduced to 15% or 20% (with Minor buffs at 8% or 10%), most of the complaining would go away. 30% buffs for things like Major Protection are always going to be nerf magnets for whatever gear they are attached to.
I can't believe this, but I actually agree with you. 30% anything is too strong, and empirical experience shows that this is true (major mending nerf back in the day)0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
I guess that would be the type of messages i would get in game if my @ name was known, huh?
It is not like i am 100% against all nerfs, i did agree on things like Pirate Skeleton for many reasons.
What i am against though is making changes that will just affect pve too, and/or not really affect pvp in the end after everyone just adapts to it and/or it will just in near future make nerfs to offensive skills to balance out the nerfed defensive sets/skills just to end up on the starting point but with just possibly destroyed sets/skills on both defensive and offensive choices.
But i guess too hard concept to understand. Better to just "nerf everything" and be where the game is and is heading even more (read= not fun) that has happened exactly because of changes like that without thinking them through. Easy to blame ZOS about them when it actually is a group of people asking for them constantly.
So please, keep typing in your special style.. not gonna change the facts. Just saying.
You still haven't understood that there is nothing in this game which comes close to the damage mitigation/ suvivability those two sets offer.
Not a single set is able to compete with them in terms of raw power.
Buffer of the swift is a widely used set and it only grants one third of the damage mitigation of major evasion.
People could swap from primate skeleton to plebfast hero and brp weapons because they both granted major protection without any drawbacks. After the removal of brp resto and dw there is no way for people to get access to those buffs except for a few sets like:
Ironblood: which comes at 66% uptime max along with a 50% snare
Immortal Warrior: which makes people still vulnerable to being killed from +35% health and it immediatly vanishes once above 35% health
Cowards: only active while sprinting
for major vitality:
Jailer: required to take a big hit
Malubeth: deserves a 5 sec duration and 10 sec cooldown but can't be controlled and can't be given to another player
and for both:
deadric trickery: tied to rng and 50% uptime max
Now tell me how people will just go over to the next thing after brp dw/resto are gone, they won't be able to because nothing comes close to their power and that's why they deserve to be removed from the game.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 18, 2019 7:11PM3 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moonsorrow wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
I guess that would be the type of messages i would get in game if my @ name was known, huh?
It is not like i am 100% against all nerfs, i did agree on things like Pirate Skeleton for many reasons.
What i am against though is making changes that will just affect pve too, and/or not really affect pvp in the end after everyone just adapts to it and/or it will just in near future make nerfs to offensive skills to balance out the nerfed defensive sets/skills just to end up on the starting point but with just possibly destroyed sets/skills on both defensive and offensive choices.
But i guess too hard concept to understand. Better to just "nerf everything" and be where the game is and is heading even more (read= not fun) that has happened exactly because of changes like that without thinking them through. Easy to blame ZOS about them when it actually is a group of people asking for them constantly.
So please, keep typing in your special style.. not gonna change the facts. Just saying.
Wasn't really addressing that to you since you appear to be more nuanced in your thinking than some of the posters here. Just showing that there is one extreme that is "nerf everything" and another which is "all nerfs are bad." They are equally bad and ignorant attitudes to have.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 18, 2019 7:13PMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2 -
Zephard✭✭✭A person asked, wouldn't the opposite to nerf (i.e. buff other things) result in the same problem as we are in with requesting nerfs.
Yes and no.
The yes, yes we would have Thing X is now used, and is over powerful to Thing Y's counter. So Buff Thing Y. Which will lead to use of Thing Z to be used to counter Thing Y. (See same problem)
The No, no we would not have causal player K unable to kill mob C over in pve land that he has never had problems killing before, because stuff got nerfed. Instead we would have about the same amount of non-causal forum writing players complaining that overland content is to easy.
Just my opinion.
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
I guess that would be the type of messages i would get in game if my @ name was known, huh?
It is not like i am 100% against all nerfs, i did agree on things like Pirate Skeleton for many reasons.
What i am against though is making changes that will just affect pve too, and/or not really affect pvp in the end after everyone just adapts to it and/or it will just in near future make nerfs to offensive skills to balance out the nerfed defensive sets/skills just to end up on the starting point but with just possibly destroyed sets/skills on both defensive and offensive choices.
But i guess too hard concept to understand. Better to just "nerf everything" and be where the game is and is heading even more (read= not fun) that has happened exactly because of changes like that without thinking them through. Easy to blame ZOS about them when it actually is a group of people asking for them constantly.
So please, keep typing in your special style.. not gonna change the facts. Just saying.
Wasn't really addressing that to you since you appear to be more nuanced in your thinking than some of the posters here. Just showing that there is one extreme that is "nerf everything" and another which is "all nerfs are bad." They are equally bad and ignorant attitudes to have.
Yep, the whole debate on things like this just often seems to get out of control and yes it is more nuanced (as the people with their opinions are too) than simply fully against or agreeing on them.
The thing is, i often might silently agree on some things being "cheesy" (lets settle for that word instead of "needs a hard nerf") for pvp, but to me problems for this whole game start when people forget that when ZOS changes things, they usually are very big changes and they not just nerf the things people asked, but everything that is even related to that, leading to big back and forth changes and people becoming generally unhappy.
There always comes so much collateral damage from changes that some might rightfully (to their playstyle, in example someone likes dueling and tries to ask balance changes based on that, someone likes high mmr bgs and asks changes for that, but both often end up changing a lot of things for all pvp and possibly for pve also).
If can read between the lines, many of my posts are there to stop some of future changes before they hopefully happen and if there do happen nerfs, perhaps they would not be total devastation level if there is not some illusion that "everyone" agrees on them.
So yes, while i know the strenghts of these sets in the right hands, i wish that if changes happen.. it will not just make them dead sets, and other sets on top of it, maybe some class skills on top of that, consumables on top of that.
Example of the cycle i am talking about: Remember people wanting certain Major Defile sources nerfed? Rewind to this day and see what i mean? What we got left? And.. now since fewer ways to stop healing people are going after ways to heal/survive.. and, that in return will lead then soon to yes, you can guess it - nerfing offensive sets/skills because people not like to die too fast.
And all that while pve side of things has to continue suffering the ups and downs because of it too.
So all this is.. can be seen as a small attempt of damage control. It is easier to live with small amounts of cheese here and there at pvp than watching the world burn in some "yeet all these banes of eso" types of big and fast changes. Easy to think things would get balanced with some tiny nerfs here and there, but.. ZOS adjustments are not tiny. You all know this.
Hopefully this was helpful to open up the logic behind sometimes defending things considered by some to be carry, cheese or whatnot.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 18, 2019 7:14PM3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@BohnT I play on PC NA and virtually every decent player knows brp dw is overpowered for good reason. But we're the minority and the fact is that you can't fight off the zerglings, mate. No amount of evidence will change their mind so the best thing to do right now is abuse the crap out of these weapons until more people start realizing how strong they are. Maybe that'll catch some attention.1 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After removing a handful of posts, we must remind everyone that Baiting and Flaming are both violations of the rules that we have in place. When creating posts/threads we ask that they are kept civil, constructive and on the topic of discussion, as well as within the rules of the guidelines we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can see the mentality in PVE with this patch, people with no sustain wondering why they run out of mats, people wondering why they can't just click something with a dot and instagib it. It doesn't benefit them because now that they're gone instead of changing their build slightly or play style they go straight to the forums.
We've all already changed our builds in PvE because we're not morons. It didn't make this trashcan of a patch any less ridiculous, so yeah, we did go to the forums AFTER race changing to Breton [insert other sustain race here] and rekitting healers for more sustain. Nice uninformed dig though.Moonsorrow wrote: »2. Once there is nothing left to use to survive said "clapping", the "inferior" people will demand your offensive damage be heavily nerfed and in that process also making pvp AND pve suffer of said nerfs/cost changes.
3. You realize after nerfs that it takes exactly the same amount of time now with your nerfed offensive skills to do "clapping" on the "inferior" people than before you started all of this.
But isn´t the point that the devs when looking at pvp make the concious decision to not let this happen?
People have been sugarcoated by easy to use defensive mechanics way too long. They need to be brought to the mindset when entering pvp that they will eventually die to other players - and that this is an ok thing to happen. That´s why they enter a pvp zone in the first place.
Not dying as a main goal for the player is an antithesis of pvp and people need to be taught that again. This goes for smallscale "roxxors" aswell as the "trashcans".
Building to live instead of to kill is not building for pvp. It´s carebear mentality - no matter who does it.
Mechanics should not endorse not dying. They should make it prohibitively difficult over extended periods of time.
While I 100% agree with the bolded sentiment, the majority of solutions can't be applied to this game because unfortunately PvP and PvE share the same gear and skills, and stripping defensive abilities from PvP would cause massive problems in PvE. The only solution I can see is to remove all major buffs and debuffs from PvP via battle spirit, and only make certain ones available through the Assault or Support skill lines, like Major Expedition (rapids).
I do firmly believe though that players will still crutch where they can, and will find other creative ways to build for super survival. I'm sick to death of coming up against immortal stambois in heavy armor who can still hit like trucks and move at super speed because ZOS can't properly balance specs any more than they can balance arenas (PvP/PvE), but I don't ever expect that to change, so I've just learned to walk away and find another target. It's just not that big of a deal any more.
Not sure what part you think is uninformed. This is like the 4th thread about the same crying. Z,JumpmanLane wrote: »Brp weapons aren’t the problem. Over buffing DOTs then nerfing them into the ground is the problem.
And guess what! Nerfs are NOT the solution.
So if they're overpowered how do you fix them without nerfing them?
DOTS were fine. They should have left them alone in the first place. After realizing their mistakes they should have reverted the overtuned buffs. Instead, they nerfed dots into the ground.
I’m not even going to get into defile, bleeds, or oblivion damage...
Brp weapons aren’t op. The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt. Yet, nerflings still begging ZOS for nerfs.
If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds.
DOTS were not fine lol that is why they got nerfed they way they did. DOTs are meant to be added damage over time, not your sole source of all DPS.
"The skills that gave any measure of counterplay to them and to tank meta in general, have all been nerfed into the dirt."
PVP disagrees with you.
"If tank meta is a problem ask for buffs to YOUR builds."
How does that work? So instead of nerfing things you just overbuff them? Wouldn't that just lead to the same problems but opposite? How does that actually solve anything?
Reading is fundamental lol. DOTS WERE fine before they overtuned them UNASKED. THEN they nerfed DOTS into the ground.
Again, DOTS were fine before DOT meta. Now, nerflings are whining because of Tank Meta. I don’t care WHAT the meta is, in Cyrodill I DROP fools!0 -
DaNnYtHePcFrEaK✭✭✭DaNnYtHePcFrEaK wrote: »Like title says. They both make it possible for players of severely inferior skill level to survive MUCH longer then they are supposed to. Major Vitality uptime cannot be that consistent from any other source in the game, and the same goes with Major Protection especially with the (rightful) Pirate and Steadfast nerfs.
It honestly baffles me how these two obviously over-performing weapons have still been untouched. Every good player understands they are over-performing and you can do perfectly fine without them, but with them you become virtually unkillable. Furthermore, with the buffs to healing, Lokestiiz HM has become much easier to heal, to the point where BRP resto is absolutely not needed anymore to successfully heal cages. There is no legitimate reason for these to not get nerfed ZOS.
So people who are PROGRESSING lokk HM have to suffer because some dude uses it in pvp and you can't kill him?
Finally someone understands.
Sick of PvP hurting groups of people trying to clear hard PvE content, I play both modes and there is more to complain about other than a staff and a set of dual wield weapons.... people exploiting CC is what needs to go... remove that crutch and watch the "skill" disappear1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaNnYtHePcFrEaK wrote: »DaNnYtHePcFrEaK wrote: »Like title says. They both make it possible for players of severely inferior skill level to survive MUCH longer then they are supposed to. Major Vitality uptime cannot be that consistent from any other source in the game, and the same goes with Major Protection especially with the (rightful) Pirate and Steadfast nerfs.
It honestly baffles me how these two obviously over-performing weapons have still been untouched. Every good player understands they are over-performing and you can do perfectly fine without them, but with them you become virtually unkillable. Furthermore, with the buffs to healing, Lokestiiz HM has become much easier to heal, to the point where BRP resto is absolutely not needed anymore to successfully heal cages. There is no legitimate reason for these to not get nerfed ZOS.
So people who are PROGRESSING lokk HM have to suffer because some dude uses it in pvp and you can't kill him?
Finally someone understands.
Sick of PvP hurting groups of people trying to clear hard PvE content, I play both modes and there is more to complain about other than a staff and a set of dual wield weapons.... people exploiting CC is what needs to go... remove that crutch and watch the "skill" disappear
There’s way too many counters to cc to be crying about that. Skills, pots, cool down AND immunity.
Now CC IS an L2p ish. You just gotta duel and practice. Don’t? Well rez out don’t send ME a message lol.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switched from NMA frontbar+Shacklebreaker+BRP DW+Bloodspawn to NMA frontbar+7th legion S&B backbar+Agility+1 piece of resistances. Guess what? Damage increased, tankiness increased. Everytime smallscale was trying to burn me, I just used literally spammable shield ultimate and this was more then enough to survive coordinated burst of people who were cutting trough BRP DW yesterday in couple of GCD.
Nerf shield ultimate!0