Once Again; BRP Resto and DW both need to be nerfed.
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Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Meh, I think the Brp resto is fine individually but it works like a very strong healing buff when used in groups. Then again, group healing in general is a bit too much imo so I don't know how much of that is a problem with the brp resto itself.
As for brp dw, idk I've heard it's pretty strong but I haven't had trouble killing anyone in particular who was spamming quick cloak but maybe I'm just lucky.
Group healing is to much? Ever tried to heal a veteran dungeon with a crap group? Then you can groupheal all you want, but it wont save you in the end.Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh4 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
If OP provided some high-MMR or organized PVP raid footage where combat is in stalemate because nobody can kill anybody because of this sets - this will be arguments. But he just claimed that he can't farm newbies in Cyro anymore and called for a new wave of nerfs.
There is no reason to provide it at all.
Everyone using the weapons knows how broken they are and everyone who regularly PvPs can see the difference when the same players who've been easy clappings in the past are now able to stall fights infinitely.
The reason being you can have 100% uptime on the buffs when you need it.
Oneshotting players with decent builds is more or less gone from the game.
It requires your ult and the rest of your offence to kill an enemy fast and clean.
This gives people at least 2 seconds to react, simply by using 1 single skill in combination with brp DW/Resto they can avoid ever being killed by the incoming damage.
There's no thought process involved, just use it when you get hit by an ult or when you expect to be hit by one and you'll survive.
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redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭chetter_hummin wrote: »Better just get good instead of complaining on forums.
All said."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2360 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2190 CP
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
If OP provided some high-MMR or organized PVP raid footage where combat is in stalemate because nobody can kill anybody because of this sets - this will be arguments. But he just claimed that he can't farm newbies in Cyro anymore and called for a new wave of nerfs.
There is no reason to provide it at all.
Everyone using the weapons knows how broken they are and everyone who regularly PvPs can see the difference when the same players who've been easy clappings in the past are now able to stall fights infinitely.
The reason being you can have 100% uptime on the buffs when you need it.
Oneshotting players with decent builds is more or less gone from the game.
It requires your ult and the rest of your offence to kill an enemy fast and clean.
This gives people at least 2 seconds to react, simply by using 1 single skill in combination with brp DW/Resto they can avoid ever being killed by the incoming damage.
There's no thought process involved, just use it when you get hit by an ult or when you expect to be hit by one and you'll survive.
I agree that there is too much healing and too much tankiness in PVP meta right now. But how removing this 2 sets will solve it?
Person can keep his stacked shields up, person can hold block with S&B/ice staff for couple of seconds to mitigate burst, person can clap wings against magicka&ranged builds, person can use rally+vigor and meditate after break free, person can use defensive ultimate to counter burst completely, and there is ton of such ultimates.
Also glass cannons still can burst through this. Hell, I met sorcs who were able to melt through wings+major protection. Only use of defensive ultimate allows to survive initial burst of such glass cannon sorc. Hell, 30k spell resistance+major protection+wings+leap to break rain of frags, meteors and elemental weapons thrown, just to survive... basically my current build is direct defensive counter against magsorc and still I need to keep full defensive rotation with fossilizes on cooldown just to survive prolonged 1v1 vs skilled one.
Until such glass cannons exist it is too early to talk about nerfing defensive options. Problem is not in this sets, problem is in meta. Majority of solo players wants to be immortal and slay potatoes and so now when 1 solo tanky player mets another solo tanky players they naturally can't kill each other and then 1 of them starts a nerf thread about nerfing something his opponent used. But his opponent may start thread about nerfing shields, nerfing block, nerfing healing etc...1 -
stileanima✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »
Oh is there a Lokkestiiz HM in PVP now too? Because a trial boss was mentioned specifically, and it’s the one place where every good PVE healer uses the item. I also failed to notice any mention of the requested nerf being limited to PVP, it sounded more like a “I can’t kill someone in PVP, so change the game and screw PVE” request.
Did you even read the OP?
Did you even write the OP?WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »
Oh is there a Lokkestiiz HM in PVP now too? Because a trial boss was mentioned specifically, and it’s the one place where every good PVE healer uses the item. I also failed to notice any mention of the requested nerf being limited to PVP, it sounded more like a “I can’t kill someone in PVP, so change the game and screw PVE” request.
Did you even read the OP?
Did you even write the OP?
Yes, I did, and you clearly didn’t read it. I already addressed your counter-argument before you even made it. You look like a fool.
Healers use BRP resto in vSS because healing has taken nothing but nerfs since the trial released. You can’t just state the opposite of facts to make your argument sound valid.
Healing Ward: Super Buffed
Springs: Buffed (in use for cages)
Radiant Regeneration: Super Buffed
Orb was nerfed, but with the buffs to the other three it is absolutely not needed.
I have healed vSS HM. It is ridiculously easy now. If using Brose Resto, with a spring down before they head in, you can heal them out in one vine after using healing ward. You can easily complete it without Brose resto, which is exactly what I stated in the OP.
Your belief that you need Brose resto for vSS resembles what is likely a build issue. I suggest looking up a prominent good healer on YouTube, such as @stileanima or Heals the Feels so you may better adjust your build to healing cages.
Need is a strong word, that I don’t believe I said. And I heal about as often as you PVE
, but I do prefer living through that mechanic. Have you considered the possibility that Major Vitality is the intended counter to the 90% healing reduction?
I can’t speak for Stiles, but my friend Icky happens to be the one that heals her out of the Ice Cages, using a BRP resto. I’m really glad the PVP community is able to help out MC with these pro suggestions though
Really it’s not about the world’s top group anyway, I know plenty of healers who struggle with Lokke HM even with the BRP Resto. You’re suggesting making their game experience less enjoyable, just so you can lose less often to “severely inferior” players in PVP. Not a worthwhile trade IMO.
Those healers can get good then? Like I said, it’s hilariously easy this patch. I’m a PvP player who’s never healed any trial other then vSS HM and I’ve done it for Christ’s sake.
https://youtu.be/WK_8A-91HxA Literally, like my 5th time healing ever. Character was still an imperial because I hadn’t even race changed him yet. If a PvP player can do it I’m sure people who actually main PvE can figure it out. The same way they learned to heal without the carry set that was Earthgore.
And for the last time. The reason these need nerfs is because they allow people to survive much longer then they should based off of their skill level. Your attempts at making it look like “I’m salty because I lost” is a blatant Strawman that avoids the topic of reasoning completely. Losing would imply the garbage players who take longer to kill actually stood a chance killing me, which they don’t, much like most everyone commenting on this post anti-nerf. They’re simply nuisances when I am 1v4 and they pop out a BRP weapon and force the fight to be more drawn out.
I suggest, not only to yourself, but to everyone who wishes to be involved in more engaging conversation rather then banter, to read up on yourlogicalfallacyis.com ~ committing these only promotes unstructured debate and inhibits any form of intellectual discussion at all. We should all strive to be as well informed and converse as intellectually as possible, we are not primates.
Just gonna respond since I was @ mentioned.
Yeah, you can heal the ice cages on HM without the vBRP resto (source: accidentally messed up my gear swap and did it without once), but it takes longer and is definitely more taxing on resources. The whole idea is to try to get them out as quickly as possible while maintaining all the buffs and debuffs you need for your group.
Speaking from the perspective of someone on a score pushing team, in previous patches, this enabled cage healers to build largely for speedy cage healing without needing to do much else. A common setup that was used was Jorvuld + Olorime + Troll King + vBRP Resto.
Then with the introduction of Z'en and the rework of Martial Knowledge, IA + Olorime became a popular setup on end-game teams, due to choosing to run Z'en and MK on the group healer. Then we decided to ditch Troll King as well and run Sentinel of Rkugamz for more sustain for the DDs. The vBRP resto remained, though, because we still had room for it without needing to sacrifice anything in the way of additional group support, while at the same time still only needing 2-3 casts of burst healing to free the caged person (sometimes just 1 with favorable crit RNG). It's definitely the strongest tool you can use for cage healing imo.
Now with no longer using Infallible Aether due to the HA fix + change to the Warden's swarm to provide Minor Vuln, in my group, we put the cage healer in Olo + Torug, and Symphony rather than Sentinel due to the nerfs. Still keeping the vBRP resto, though, because of how quickly it enables you to heal the cages in spite of running the rest of your setup in a way that is not specifically built for cage healing.
This, for us, is a good balance of healing power for the cage healer + providing excellent group support.
In short: why would you not use such a strong tool to your advantage?
Also @SenpaiNFT , I watched that video you linked where you are healing the HM cages, and I just wanted to let you know that the other healer in your group is also helping you to heal them. That's probably why it felt so easy to you. In end-game teams, though, the standard practice is to solo heal the cages, which makes the vBRP resto all the more valuable. Edited by stileanima on November 14, 2019 1:00PM12 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They're not going to nerf them. Not until they bring another waves of 2 slot weapons out. Then they'll nerf them like they did to vma weapons.
Got to keep selling those dlc'sPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭stileanima wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »
Oh is there a Lokkestiiz HM in PVP now too? Because a trial boss was mentioned specifically, and it’s the one place where every good PVE healer uses the item. I also failed to notice any mention of the requested nerf being limited to PVP, it sounded more like a “I can’t kill someone in PVP, so change the game and screw PVE” request.
Did you even read the OP?
Did you even write the OP?WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »
Oh is there a Lokkestiiz HM in PVP now too? Because a trial boss was mentioned specifically, and it’s the one place where every good PVE healer uses the item. I also failed to notice any mention of the requested nerf being limited to PVP, it sounded more like a “I can’t kill someone in PVP, so change the game and screw PVE” request.
Did you even read the OP?
Did you even write the OP?
Yes, I did, and you clearly didn’t read it. I already addressed your counter-argument before you even made it. You look like a fool.
Healers use BRP resto in vSS because healing has taken nothing but nerfs since the trial released. You can’t just state the opposite of facts to make your argument sound valid.
Healing Ward: Super Buffed
Springs: Buffed (in use for cages)
Radiant Regeneration: Super Buffed
Orb was nerfed, but with the buffs to the other three it is absolutely not needed.
I have healed vSS HM. It is ridiculously easy now. If using Brose Resto, with a spring down before they head in, you can heal them out in one vine after using healing ward. You can easily complete it without Brose resto, which is exactly what I stated in the OP.
Your belief that you need Brose resto for vSS resembles what is likely a build issue. I suggest looking up a prominent good healer on YouTube, such as @stileanima or Heals the Feels so you may better adjust your build to healing cages.
Need is a strong word, that I don’t believe I said. And I heal about as often as you PVE, but I do prefer living through that mechanic. Have you considered the possibility that Major Vitality is the intended counter to the 90% healing reduction?
I can’t speak for Stiles, but my friend Icky happens to be the one that heals her out of the Ice Cages, using a BRP resto. I’m really glad the PVP community is able to help out MC with these pro suggestions though
Really it’s not about the world’s top group anyway, I know plenty of healers who struggle with Lokke HM even with the BRP Resto. You’re suggesting making their game experience less enjoyable, just so you can lose less often to “severely inferior” players in PVP. Not a worthwhile trade IMO.
Those healers can get good then? Like I said, it’s hilariously easy this patch. I’m a PvP player who’s never healed any trial other then vSS HM and I’ve done it for Christ’s sake.https://youtu.be/WK_8A-91HxA Literally, like my 5th time healing ever. Character was still an imperial because I hadn’t even race changed him yet. If a PvP player can do it I’m sure people who actually main PvE can figure it out. The same way they learned to heal without the carry set that was Earthgore.
And for the last time. The reason these need nerfs is because they allow people to survive much longer then they should based off of their skill level. Your attempts at making it look like “I’m salty because I lost” is a blatant Strawman that avoids the topic of reasoning completely. Losing would imply the garbage players who take longer to kill actually stood a chance killing me, which they don’t, much like most everyone commenting on this post anti-nerf. They’re simply nuisances when I am 1v4 and they pop out a BRP weapon and force the fight to be more drawn out.
I suggest, not only to yourself, but to everyone who wishes to be involved in more engaging conversation rather then banter, to read up on yourlogicalfallacyis.com ~ committing these only promotes unstructured debate and inhibits any form of intellectual discussion at all. We should all strive to be as well informed and converse as intellectually as possible, we are not primates.
Just gonna respond since I was @ mentioned.
Yeah, you can heal the ice cages on HM without the vBRP resto (source: accidentally messed up my gear swap and did it without once), but it takes longer and is definitely more taxing on resources. The whole idea is to try to get them out as quickly as possible while maintaining all the buffs and debuffs you need for your group.
Speaking from the perspective of someone on a score pushing team, in previous patches, this enabled cage healers to build largely for speedy cage healing without needing to do much else. A common setup that was used was Jorvuld + Olorime + Troll King + vBRP Resto.
Then with the introduction of Z'en and the rework of Martial Knowledge, IA + Olorime became a popular setup on end-game teams, due to choosing to run Z'en and MK on the group healer. Then we decided to ditch Troll King as well and run Sentinel of Rkugamz for more sustain for the DDs. The vBRP resto remained, though, because we still had room for it without needing to sacrifice anything in the way of additional group support, while at the same time still only needing 2-3 casts of burst healing to free the caged person (sometimes just 1 with favorable crit RNG). It's definitely the strongest tool you can use for cage healing imo.
Now with no longer using Infallible Aether due to the HA fix + change to the Warden's swarm to provide Minor Vuln, in my group, we put the cage healer in Olo + Torug, and Symphony rather than Sentinel due to the nerfs. Still keeping the vBRP resto, though, because of how quickly it enables you to heal the cages in spite of running the rest of your setup in a way that is not specifically built for cage healing.
This, for us, is a good balance of healing power for the cage healer + providing excellent group support.
In short: why would you not use such a strong tool to your advantage?
Also @SenpaiNFT , I watched that video you linked where you are healing the HM cages, and I just wanted to let you know that the other healer in your group is also helping you to heal them. That's probably why it felt so easy to you. In end-game teams, though, the standard practice is to solo heal the cages, which makes the vBRP resto all the more valuable.
Thanks for commenting Stiles, yeah like I said that was my second time ever even healing vSS so the other healer was throwing off heals; I had since been able to easily complete it on my own (although I ended up having to tank and dps for various group incapability reasons, the entire reason I linked the video is because the person I was responding to decided to insinuate that I’m just a whiny PvPer who does not PvE). My entire point is ~ yes it is amazing and makes it easier, but at the end of the day, so was Earthgore. After it was nerfed, what happened? People adjusted. I have experienced healing vSS HM, I know people will adjust and I know the top healers will tweak there builds as such to balance out the loss, but currently these two weapons are absolutely outrageous in PvP and make the game much less enjoyable for the high-level PvP community as a whole. If I had to equate it to something in PvE for the endgame community, it would be about as frustrating as broken cones, and Felms steaming out his ass.
Of course this could all be avoided if they just balanced PvP and PvE separately.Edited by SenpaiNFT on November 14, 2019 3:34PM1 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.
I don't heal in PvP, actually. I also don't really care if someone uses these items in PvP (I mostly play open world small scale or solo, not BGs where it seems to be a problem) because I built specifically to burst down tanky players instead of pouring resources into making myself a tanky damage dealer (gross), so it's not a big deal. Also, I've seen your group, and the "entire crux of small scale players" consists of about 10 of you guys who all sit in a discord and bounce the same ideas and complaints back and forth. While I get that it feels really frustrating to come up against it, I don't think gear should be deleted just because ten people want it.Edited by p00tx on November 14, 2019 5:30PMPC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero6 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why are people always asking for gear to be nerfed, when it's always the underlying Major buffs/debuffs that are the real problem?
If all Major buffs were reduced to 15% or 20% (with Minor buffs at 8% or 10%), most of the complaining would go away. 30% buffs for things like Major Protection are always going to be nerf magnets for whatever gear they are attached to.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because those buffs are balanced as long access is limited. And having - limited - access to high impact buffs is a good thing. So i'd rather have gear nerfed than skills that are balanced arround those buffs being as powerful as they are.0 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Why are people always asking for gear to be nerfed, when it's always the underlying Major buffs/debuffs that are the real problem?
If all Major buffs were reduced to 15% or 20% (with Minor buffs at 8% or 10%), most of the complaining would go away. 30% buffs for things like Major Protection are always going to be nerf magnets for whatever gear they are attached to.
The real problem occurred because they made these items available to players on normal difficulty. vBRP is a difficult piece of content that is pretty inaccessible to most players, and if they had kept the weapons to vet difficulty, they wouldn't even be an issue, as almost no one would have them. Earthgore wasn't a huge problem until they dropped it in the Golden, which meant every brain dead player with enough AP could swoop up 10 of them without having to muddle their way through the dungeon, which is a colossal (though not super difficult) pain in the butt. ZOS needs to be more careful who they make specific gear items available to, to avoid these types of issues in the future. Powerful items should only be available to players capable of clearing specific content.
Earthgore is now nothing but a tanking set because of their mistake, and rightfully so since roving hoards of heavily armored healers with Earthgore was too much by any standards. While I don't care about the BRP dw or what happens to it, I don't want the resto to go the same way, but I have a strong feeling that the devs aren't clever enough to come up with a solution that doesn't gimp it for PvE, and if it's such a massive problem in PvP (which I disagree with, but that's just my own perspective), then something obviously needs to change. If they were smart, they'd just disable Major Vulnerability (you don't get to keep one without the other...balance), Major Vitality, and Major Protection from PvP entirely through Battle Spirit. Problem solved, no more complaining, for now.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero3 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stuff shouldn't be op in PvP just because it is locked behind more or less hard PvE content (and $$$).
And those buffs have been ok for years, no need to nerf balanced/underperforming skills just because zos insists on adding new op stuff to sell more dlc.0 -
Sakibure✭✭✭Set all damage abilities to 0. No one is op, no one can be killed from stealth, no one can complaining that another class is op and has to be nerfed.
Every mistake - sitting in red areas - wont be punished. Everything can be made solo. There is no need any longer for testing build. Just take every skill you like - which looks good etc....
And the biggest advantage is zos doesn't need to balance classes or skills...
Peace
Liebe Grüße,
Sakibure0 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.
I don't heal in PvP, actually. I also don't really care if someone uses these items in PvP (I mostly play open world small scale or solo, not BGs where it seems to be a problem) because I built specifically to burst down tanky players instead of pouring resources into making myself a tanky damage dealer (gross), so it's not a big deal. Also, I've seen your group, and the "entire crux of small scale players" consists of about 10 of you guys who all sit in a discord and bounce the same ideas and complaints back and forth. While I get that it feels really frustrating to come up against it, I don't think gear should be deleted just because ten people want it.
You aren’t in any of the Discords where it is discussed, how could you possibly know? Very presumptuous of you.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Nerf DOTs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Sorcs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Nbs, because they killed me...
- Nerf Werewolves, because they killed me...
...and the list goes on, and on...
Ffs, people, can you stop for a second ? Soon we wont have nothing left but running in set-less gear and Light attacking each other to death
but not weaving!!! that's CHEATING0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Like your argument "I die to this therefore it should be nerf" is invalid because these are defensive buffs, not offensive. You can't die to Major Protection and Vitality... But you can see how it effectively allows players to prolong fights at will. If you've used Master DW you would know that players can wear 1 set that procs on both bars, and 1 set that only works on 1 bar to maximize these weapons. For example I can use 5x Fury on the body, and 5x Clever Alchemist on my back bar and Master DW on front bar. This allows me to proc the weapon damage on my back bar, which will carry over to my front bar while having access to Master DW as well. Or 5x Fury body, 5x Spriggans front bar to make use of brp DW back bar. There is simply no major sacrifice other than the fact that you have to use a set that only requires 1 bar to slot. Quite frankly, those sets are out there, and they are some of the best sets for stamina like Truth, Spriggans, 7th legion, New Moon Acolyte, etc. You can't make that argument without actually looking at how players do these things to min/max their build.
That's why I will continue to say this everytime - Input for balance changes should only come from experienced players (Who happen to be a part of the minority, or "elite", that everyone seem to complain about), and those who have an unbiased understanding of the current meta in the game.
Edited by StaticWave on November 14, 2019 8:04PM1 -
xWarbrain✭✭✭✭✭When you're stacking all of those damage mitigation multipliers, you're draining all your resources and not harming anyone. Then you get CC'd. Then you die. Unless the other player doesn't understand this and instead cries on the forums to have things nerfed.
Funny how many "elite" players complain about not being able to overcome these items.
Every day I get hit by something where I think "man that skill sucks to deal with" or "this guy is hard to play against". I've never once thought to myself "I better get on the forums and see if I can get that adjusted so I have a better chance next time".
LEARN TO PLAY.XB1 NA
Your nerf suggestion is dumb. Learn to counter other players instead of having the game rebuilt to your ability level.5 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Mitigation doesn't sum up, all bonuses are calculated on portion of what's left after previous mitigations.3 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.
I don't heal in PvP, actually. I also don't really care if someone uses these items in PvP (I mostly play open world small scale or solo, not BGs where it seems to be a problem) because I built specifically to burst down tanky players instead of pouring resources into making myself a tanky damage dealer (gross), so it's not a big deal. Also, I've seen your group, and the "entire crux of small scale players" consists of about 10 of you guys who all sit in a discord and bounce the same ideas and complaints back and forth. While I get that it feels really frustrating to come up against it, I don't think gear should be deleted just because ten people want it.
You aren’t in any of the Discords where it is discussed, how could you possibly know? Very presumptuous of you.
I was, but I left the last time this was brought up because I disagreed and that didn't go over well. I was in there for quite a long time actually.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Mitigation doesn't sum up, all bonuses are calculated on portion of what's left after previous mitigations.
Which is why I said "The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated".1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you're stacking all of those damage mitigation multipliers, you're draining all your resources and not harming anyone. Then you get CC'd. Then you die. Unless the other player doesn't understand this and instead cries on the forums to have things nerfed.
Funny how many "elite" players complain about not being able to overcome these items.
Every day I get hit by something where I think "man that skill sucks to deal with" or "this guy is hard to play against". I've never once thought to myself "I better get on the forums and see if I can get that adjusted so I have a better chance next time".
LEARN TO PLAY.
You're not draining "all" your resources.. Slot Undo for permanent 8% minor protection. Cast Shuffle for 20s of major evasion. Cast Grim Focus for 60s of 10% damage mitigation. Cast Shadow Image for 20s of minor maim. Quickcloak can be used situationally to avoid large bursts and prolong fights at will. I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here dude.
So by your logic dots should have been untouched because players can overcome them by just stacking heals and slot purge?2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you're stacking all of those damage mitigation multipliers, you're draining all your resources and not harming anyone. Then you get CC'd. Then you die. Unless the other player doesn't understand this and instead cries on the forums to have things nerfed.
Funny how many "elite" players complain about not being able to overcome these items.
Every day I get hit by something where I think "man that skill sucks to deal with" or "this guy is hard to play against". I've never once thought to myself "I better get on the forums and see if I can get that adjusted so I have a better chance next time".
LEARN TO PLAY.
And I will be more than happy to duel you on PTS so I can see how far you will go with that "learn to play" quote.0 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.
I don't heal in PvP, actually. I also don't really care if someone uses these items in PvP (I mostly play open world small scale or solo, not BGs where it seems to be a problem) because I built specifically to burst down tanky players instead of pouring resources into making myself a tanky damage dealer (gross), so it's not a big deal. Also, I've seen your group, and the "entire crux of small scale players" consists of about 10 of you guys who all sit in a discord and bounce the same ideas and complaints back and forth. While I get that it feels really frustrating to come up against it, I don't think gear should be deleted just because ten people want it.
You aren’t in any of the Discords where it is discussed, how could you possibly know? Very presumptuous of you.
I was, but I left the last time this was brought up because I disagreed and that didn't go over well. I was in there for quite a long time actually.
You do realize this is a topic in numerous discords? I’m not even sure which one you’re referring to.Edited by SenpaiNFT on November 14, 2019 8:46PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »I still don't understand how these guys think brp dw doesn't need a nerf. Like right now on my stamsorc I have Minor Protection, Major Protection, and Major Evasion. That gives me 38% damage mitigation vs single target skills, and 63% damage mitigation vs aoe skills. On my NB, I get an extra 10% from Grim Focus and another 15% from Minor Maim. That gives me a total of 63% damage mitigation vs single target skills and 88% damage mitigation vs aoe ones. The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated, but it should be close. How is that not absurd though?
Mitigation doesn't sum up, all bonuses are calculated on portion of what's left after previous mitigations.
Which is why I said "The final value won't add up to those because of how mitigation is calculated".
Yes, but total mitigation won't be close to those high numbers until you add resistance and battle spirit.
For your NB example it will be (1-0.1)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.3)*(1-0.08)=63% Now let's say you have 15k resistance after penetration, it will be another 22.7% + battle spirit. So final total mitigation will be (0.37)*(0.773)*(0.5)=85.7% of tooltip+pen.
Now let's calculate the same without major protection:
(0.472)*(0.773)*(0.5)=81.7% of tooltip+penetration
If your enemy aoe spammable has 10k tooltip for example, in no-cp it will deal 1430 damage against major protection and 1830 against NB without major protection. 1430 vs 1830 it is noticeable difference, but certainly not decisive one, when typical bow procs and frags hit for 7-8k.
Of course if target doesn't have any buffs then major protection, impact of it will be much higher, so we may say that this set is more valuable for players with low resistances and with little access to other mitigations. Removing BRP DW will just make same players to invest more in passive defense, and if now you have chance for a burst when BRP DW is down (and of course it is not 100% up in real conditions), when those players will run with 35k resistances+S&B they will be protected to any burst until they have enough stamina for blocking.Edited by MartiniDaniels on November 14, 2019 8:56PM1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dude, its the same 5-6 people complaining about these sets over and over and over, all from the same discord chat, and it's getting old. I can see how they would be annoying in Cyrodil, and I get the frustration, but you can't have every single set that gives someone an advantage nerfed. It just starts a whole new chain reaction that ends with yet another post to nerf yet another set, and nothing ever changes. People will ALWAYS find something to crutch on, no matter how much you take away. The only thing you can do to equalize things is to just give everyone nothing but sticks and see how much faster one person can wave theirs at the other.
In the interest of working with the nerflings however, since they always seem to eventually get their way in this game, what if the staff skill got changed to only affect another player, rather than potentially the one who cast it? That way, it would require a pocket healer to receive the buff, which could be easily killed before killing the dd, since pocket healer wouldn't have the benefit of the buff. This would allow it to still be used in PvE where it's not "hurting" anyone's gameplay.
Actually the entire crux of small scale players want both of these nerfed. I would not expect a zerg healer to understand.The post isn't even about 1% of all available sets yet people start to yell at OP how he wants to remove every single thing from the game.
Everyone trying to defend brp dw and resto at this point should just be brushed off with "ok boomer"
There's no point listing the arguments again for people who can't grasp that 30% more healing/ less damage taken on demand with no cooldown is unbalanced
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭JumpmanLane wrote: »
Major Vitality? For how long. Geeze Brp is really just good in a duel. In open world GUARDS would get the rapid regen I popped off it.
Look add some damage to those crappy high mitigation/ high sustain builds ya running. You can’t kill nobody because YOU built that way!
No man we're literally talking about using 3 damage sets and still not putting a dent due to BRP weapons. Like what is a Templar supposed to do against that level of AoE mitigation? If someone runs 3 damage sets they should not be shut down by a damn 2 pc.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2
