fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.

This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete [snip], but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

@thankyourat

Tryed that build It does feel tanky. However, I still feel like my damage is lacking. I did a bunch of duels tonight trying it out, I feel better using this setup then my other build. But I dont see how you get a 24k tool tip mine is 20.8k with 50k magicka. I do not have infused on my restro staff with a damage enchant, is that adding 3k damage?

My bar setup is: shade, ele drain, fear, swallow, merciless, sHarvest
Siphoning, rapid, dampen, rat, cloak, TG

I dont like fear anymore since I dont have lotus fan, prolly switch that out for the destro kockback skill. Its probably me not setting up combos very well, I have never been good at a static rotation. Im a mess right now trying to juggle all the skills, need a lot more practice with this setup.

But if there is anyway to pump out more damage please let me know. I couldn't break through any sorcs shields, but I think if I can get ranged cc that might help.

BTW for anybody on xbox there is a cp bug with shields not increasing.

What’s your race, what Mundus are you using and are you adding in continuous attack. I use a infused berserk glyph on the back bar as well. With everything procd it should put your bow at 24k. There are Some players I still can’t burst down but that’s pretty standard for a open world build on all classes. If you want more damage my 1v1 build is spinner/necro/slime crawl with 2 regen glyphs and shadow mundus stone. I don’t like it for Cyrodil because the sustain is a bit on the low side the damage is way higher though.

You can also switch out troll king for a offensive monster set but you’ll lose a good deal of survivability. Sorc shields are impossible to break through if they build defensive. Anyone with black rose resto or dual wield are also impossible to kill. Defense in the game is out of control this patch. I would keep fear on your bar just in case you come up against a dodge roll or block build.

I am a dark elf using attronoch mundus. No I wasn't adding continuous attack that all makes sense I knew I was missing something.

Well that makes me feel better that there are just some people that are pretty much impossible to kill. I have been dueling lately with setups trying to find what I like. The first day I did alright and thought I was in a decent spot, however after doing more duels the last few days its clear that my win percentage is extremely low.

Seems like there are about 5% of builds that I can beat 85% of builds that we just fight and fight forever until I eventually get caught in a good combo, 5% that straight up wreck me, and then there are 5% of builds that we cant kill each other.
The 85% duels are usually duels that i'm just not doing enough burst to kill, while I have enough defense to just stay alive unless they line everything up right.

I feel like a nbs burst does not happen frequently enough. Esp when Im trying to save merciless for just the right time while using it as defense.

For example against most classes I dont do enough damage with swallow to get their health down enough to use merciless and sHarvest for a kill. That's a problem.

Sorc is constantly bursting, frags procs often and curse goes off every 4 to 8 sec? Mayby im wrong on time buts its often. So they are able to continually beat someones health bar down and they dont really have to Spam their spammable.

Templars have 1 burst skill POL (POL happens frequently) and an ultimate, however their Spammable (sweeps/jabs) do work and pile on alot of damage plus their bust skill happends often.

So I dont want them nerfed by any means I say that to say this, there are two types of burst options that are working in this game. The devs need to decide how they want magblade to work. Do they want to rework a skill and make it work like curse to pair with merciless and use continual burst theory. Or do they want to buff our spammable and make burst work like templars?

Because right now magblade has none of these and burst is happening to rarely because I can hit a merciless even for 10k and before I can even use a ulti they are full health again. Now you can make a argument this is because of cast time on ulti, I agree that is a prob as well, but I would argue that in the long run magblade would be better using the same theory as sorc or templar over a cast time removal. Because your still going to be in a situation where bursting takes to long to be ready that by the time your ready to burst the enemy has so much health that your burst wont kill anyway. However if it happened often you would be wearing the enemy down until a burst killed them like a sorc does.

Magblade is stuck in a spot thats not on par with the games direction and needs a update. Thats just my opinion maybe im wrong but it sure seems thats the root of all the trouble for me. I guess thats why cal is so popular to get that burst its almost like a curse going off. Downside is Curse is a skill and you can stack damage sets to help while we have to use a whole set to get it. Oh and it does not go off every 4 or 5 seconds.

Yup, pretty much. On my Templar against your average NB I don’t need the burst ability TBH. Sweeps is enough to finish off most NBs without an ultimate because they build glassy.

There’s more issues then that too I think. Comparing both classes after playing them both.

1. I build 1k less mag regen on my templar and do fine, that lets me stack spell damage jewellery glyphs and hit harder. Sustain is bad on magblade
2. Templars have very little projectiles. As a templar I can take down DKs no problem solo, so if you’re itching to finally be able to kill one I’d try templar
3. Self healing on magblade is bad. I do more damage and healing spamming sweeps then dark cloak and swallow soul combined

I play glassier then most Templars but I do die more as a templar then magNB. As a templar when you’re outnumbered it’s a lot tougher without cloak.

Sorc... well... only deluded sorcs don’t think they aren’t stronger then magblade in every sense.

WacArnold wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.

This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete [snip], but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

Iskiab wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

@fred4 If you’re vamp try meteor>accelerating drain>will

Block cancel the drain and you’ll add 1-2 ticks of drain plus the stun will let meteor hit and your will hit. That’s a fair bit of burst

Can confirm, this is a good combo. Blew me up twice in 1v1s, it hits especially hard if you’re a vampire. Works on almost any mag class.

Meteor hasn’t been popular for a while too so newer players like me (started with summerset) aren’t used to seeing it so get caught without blocking.

fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Eh after reading my reply I started to remember what somebody said about how its because of cloak that magblade is the way it is. I mean think about we are able to get out of ALOT of situations that would be death for other classes. Do you guys think cloak is whats stopping devs from changing nbs?

Yes, but stamblade has been stronger than magblade for a long time. Magblade has IMO been the victim of nerfs directed at stamblades (Incap stun) and sorcs (shields). Stamblade was historically much better at upfront damage - ganking - than magblade, not least when Surprise Attack gave Major Fracture. Traditional magblade playstyles, on the other hand, have been oxymoronic. Cloak forever, but have to uncloak for 5 seconds to generate your burst. Caluurion fixes that. It lets you play like a stamblade ganker, although it's power still doesn't match a good stamblade.

I've played melee magblade forever, because I felt I needed Forward Momentum back in the day. That spec has always been weak. There were some options, such as dual-wield and Torug's Pact when DW enchants were stronger, but they were still pretty meh. Since then the melee spec has gradually been buffed. First via Caluurion and Zaan. Then by getting RAT, which freed you up to go destro and get much better light attacks. Then by getting Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan, which buffs Caluurion. On the other hand we've also lost a lot of sustain. The loss of stamina sustain from Siphoning Attacks is something that really killed the damage of my build, as I feel forced to run dual-regen drinks. At least it's much more fun to play with good stam sustain. Less precautionary cloaking while waiting for stam. Such a mixed bag of nerfs and buffs has left magblade still pretty weak overall, IMO.

Assassin's Will is often quoted as being the hardest hitting skill in the game outside of ultimates, but that's BS when every other class is comboing stuff. How do you combo Assassin's Will? I believe Soul Tether once stunned through block, so people used to run that combo. Incap stunned, so that was an option. Both are gone or at least I haven't seen a good Tether combo player in a long time. Meteor is too telegraphed. Opponent just needs to hold block. It's practically automatic. So let's say you do Meteor -> Fear -> Assassin's Will. Haven't tried, but nope. I doubt that will hit in a single GCD. I guess Cloak -> Concealed -> Assassin's Will is a possibility that would stun, do damage, proc Caluurion and hit with Assassin's Will all in one GCD. Haven't tried that, but it would be temperamental. Can be blocked and countered with Hurricane, Noxious Breath, and so on.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You have to keep in mind how to proc shadow barrier without fear also. Unless you cloak alot, fearing on CD is always the best way to keep that buff

WacArnold wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Eh after reading my reply I started to remember what somebody said about how its because of cloak that magblade is the way it is. I mean think about we are able to get out of ALOT of situations that would be death for other classes. Do you guys think cloak is whats stopping devs from changing nbs?

Yes, but stamblade has been stronger than magblade for a long time. Magblade has IMO been the victim of nerfs directed at stamblades (Incap stun) and sorcs (shields). Stamblade was historically much better at upfront damage - ganking - than magblade, not least when Surprise Attack gave Major Fracture. Traditional magblade playstyles, on the other hand, have been oxymoronic. Cloak forever, but have to uncloak for 5 seconds to generate your burst. Caluurion fixes that. It lets you play like a stamblade ganker, although it's power still doesn't match a good stamblade.

I've played melee magblade forever, because I felt I needed Forward Momentum back in the day. That spec has always been weak. There were some options, such as dual-wield and Torug's Pact when DW enchants were stronger, but they were still pretty meh. Since then the melee spec has gradually been buffed. First via Caluurion and Zaan. Then by getting RAT, which freed you up to go destro and get much better light attacks. Then by getting Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan, which buffs Caluurion. On the other hand we've also lost a lot of sustain. The loss of stamina sustain from Siphoning Attacks is something that really killed the damage of my build, as I feel forced to run dual-regen drinks. At least it's much more fun to play with good stam sustain. Less precautionary cloaking while waiting for stam. Such a mixed bag of nerfs and buffs has left magblade still pretty weak overall, IMO.

Assassin's Will is often quoted as being the hardest hitting skill in the game outside of ultimates, but that's BS when every other class is comboing stuff. How do you combo Assassin's Will? I believe Soul Tether once stunned through block, so people used to run that combo. Incap stunned, so that was an option. Both are gone or at least I haven't seen a good Tether combo player in a long time. Meteor is too telegraphed. Opponent just needs to hold block. It's practically automatic. So let's say you do Meteor -> Fear -> Assassin's Will. Haven't tried, but nope. I doubt that will hit in a single GCD. I guess Cloak -> Concealed -> Assassin's Will is a possibility that would stun, do damage, proc Caluurion and hit with Assassin's Will all in one GCD. Haven't tried that, but it would be temperamental. Can be blocked and countered with Hurricane, Noxious Breath, and so on.

I do agree alot of magblade nerfs are indirect nerfs comming from nerfs associated towards stamblades.

Ah yeah dude when I first starting learning pvp with the magblade was when dueling first came out, it was the only way I could get in alot of fights 1 on 1 to start learning and practicing combos. Yes soul tether was un-blockable and that combo with merciless was my favorite finishing move. To see the enemy kneel at your feet before you finished him with merciless was priceless. That was when heavy armor was badass and you could never get pinned down because of siphoning restoring stam.

I haven't really tried tether like that anymore. Back then it felt like swallow did damage and between that and a dot or so you could wear down opponents pretty easily to get them into burst range. But now it feels like I need to use sHarvest for the damage and the extra damage to even scratch enimes. Back then damage was good in heavy you could run spinner/jullianos and hit hard. But we lost alot like you said.

I’m not sure I buy the whole stamblade led to magblades getting nerfed. If there are good Stamblades out there dominating it’s not in PC-NA.

I actually think it was magblade healers that led to a bit of nerfs. Stamblades might have contributed to the cost increases on a lot of abilities so they can’t use them as much, but I think that’s it.

At least the stun from incap and minor berserk I would attribute to stamblades. Everybody was complaining about being ganked, and now with so much healing and defense those would probably be back on par.

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.

This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete [snip], but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

Langeston wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.

This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete [snip], but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.

You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.