MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

GhostofDatthaw · November 2019

New moon is an interesting set but it's one of those very one sided sets that imo don't fit magnb in it's current form. Sets like julianos, spell strat or new moon are suboptimal to me because they focus so hard on damage. They buff your base damage alot, but the only thing that honestly buffs is rapid Regen if you run it. Swallow soul is damage done so it is effected by pen and in turn give better heals with spinners in my experience. Meanwhile you are left with having to balance your remaining stats with 1 set and glyphs.

Langeston · November 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

zrazmab16_ESO wrote: »

Can anyone advise which set would be better to pair with mother sorrow, Alfiq's or New moon acolyte. I have alfiq fire staff ninrhoned with weapon damage enchantment, while new moon acolyte fire staff infused with shock damage enchantment. Tooltip for swallow soul and elemental weapon is greater on alfiqs by 400. I run 2.1k mag recovery with both sets, just new moon have 5.5k less magicka and 5% increased cost while having overal less tooltip damage. Is it worth changing trait on new moon to nirnhoned and adding weapon damage enchant, as I would still sit at 36k magicka with 2.1k recovery.

I wasn't super impressed with New Moon on my magblade tbh, so I'd go Alfiq's — I'd miss the extra magicka too much (especially if I'm in no-CP.) If you choose New Moon, you might want to try playing it with infused first before transmuting. The two are extremely close, and from what I understand infused outperforms nirn in many scenarios.

I just tried New Moon out today, switched out spinners.

I’m not sure what to think of it either, I ran OOM a couple times. I would be sure to put cloak on the non-New Moon bar for sure. I’ve been using it like spinners and only using the 5 piece on one bar, think that’s it’s best use.

Yes, cloak on the back bar is a necessity with that set. I wound up going back to spinner's, I think it's just a better set for magblades overall (at least for how I play.) Penetration, max magicka, & sustain are my priorities & the spell damage & crit chance from New Moon just didn't feel quite as useful.

zrazmab16_ESO · November 2019

I wasn't super impressed with New Moon on my magblade tbh, so I'd go Alfiq's — I'd miss the extra magicka too much (especially if I'm in no-CP.) If you choose New Moon, you might want to try playing it with infused first before transmuting. The two are extremely close, and from what I understand infused outperforms nirn in many scenarios.[/quote]

For my playstyle I can’t really decide. New moon on on my fight initiations (cloack>bar swap>Light attack>Elemental weapon) seems to be performing better due to shock enchantment. Ofcourse having 40k+ mag with alfiq is comfortable, but i think 36k should be very reasonable amount to work around even for cloaking magblade.

Is there any another sets, which could perform better combined with mothers sorrow, on my initial rotation damage? As well i run slimecraw and can’t see any better option for my build atm

Langeston · November 2019

Are sets like Innate Axiom & War Maiden affected by the Master Assassin passive and/or Major Sorcery? I always just assumed that they weren't because the spell damage from them doesn't show up in your stats, but it just occurred to me that it's possible that that is an incorrect assumption.

ExistingRug61 · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Are sets like Innate Axiom & War Maiden affected by the Master Assassin passive and/or Major Sorcery? I always just assumed that they weren't because the spell damage from them doesn't show up in your stats, but it just occurred to me that it's possible that that is an incorrect assumption.

I believe they do someone tested for the buffs, see
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343255/psa-for-sets-like-automaton-netch-war-maiden/p1
I assume master assassin would work similarly.

Additionally in addition to magic damage I think I saw that someone had tested and found that war maiden affects Resto (and maybe other) heals as well. Can’t find that thread now so you might want to check.

ExistingRug61 · November 2019

The problem I find with those sets though is they won’t help your destro light attacks so most of the time you are better off still going for a generic damage buff.

Mayrael · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Are sets like Innate Axiom & War Maiden affected by the Master Assassin passive and/or Major Sorcery? I always just assumed that they weren't because the spell damage from them doesn't show up in your stats, but it just occurred to me that it's possible that that is an incorrect assumption.

They are affected. I saw once very detailed vid about it which proved that major sorcery affects War Maiden thus I think its safe to asume it all works together as it should.

Moonsorrow · November 2019

fred4 wrote: »

If ZOS ever decide to nerf Zaan, Cauurion, Cloak sustain, Cloak speed, or they take the sustain out of the CP system, I'm done for.

Well.. they did toy around with the idea of changing Caluurion into a sort of magicka version of Alkosh, so it would proc Penetration debuffs on enemies instead of pure damage procs.

True story (or Riften tavern RP gossip - you decide).

Moonsorrow · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Are sets like Innate Axiom & War Maiden affected by the Master Assassin passive and/or Major Sorcery? I always just assumed that they weren't because the spell damage from them doesn't show up in your stats, but it just occurred to me that it's possible that that is an incorrect assumption.

Yes they are affected.

All such sets, like Sun, Netch, Ysgramor with them bonuses to certain type of attack all are calculated with Major (and Minor) Sorcery and other modifiers like Minor and Major Courage what comes to those attack types, with Innate Axiom obviously also on class heals.

So yes, If you use Innate Axiom and use class spammable like Swallow Soul as an example, the damage scales up correctly with Major Sorcery and other buffs to spell damage.

Oh and before you ask, Sun, Netch, Ysgramor sets also affect each of their elemental type destro staff Light and heavy attack damage. So Silks of the Sun makes your Inferno staff light attacks have a bit more punch as an example.

GhostofDatthaw · November 2019

zrazmab16_ESO wrote: »

I wasn't super impressed with New Moon on my magblade tbh, so I'd go Alfiq's — I'd miss the extra magicka too much (especially if I'm in no-CP.) If you choose New Moon, you might want to try playing it with infused first before transmuting. The two are extremely close, and from what I understand infused outperforms nirn in many scenarios.

For my playstyle I can’t really decide. New moon on on my fight initiations (cloack>bar swap>Light attack>Elemental weapon) seems to be performing better due to shock enchantment. Ofcourse having 40k+ mag with alfiq is comfortable, but i think 36k should be very reasonable amount to work around even for cloaking magblade.

Is there any another sets, which could perform better combined with mothers sorrow, on my initial rotation damage? As well i run slimecraw and can’t see any better option for my build atm

Tbh I would drop mother sorrow all together. I really dislike building crit like that because you can easily hit like 40-50% crit without it. And have much better stats in the process. Ms is a pve set through and through imo. You would be better off dropping Ms for a stat set like btb, shackle, necro, and then running your damage set.

Iskiab · November 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

zrazmab16_ESO wrote: »

I wasn't super impressed with New Moon on my magblade tbh, so I'd go Alfiq's — I'd miss the extra magicka too much (especially if I'm in no-CP.) If you choose New Moon, you might want to try playing it with infused first before transmuting. The two are extremely close, and from what I understand infused outperforms nirn in many scenarios.

For my playstyle I can’t really decide. New moon on on my fight initiations (cloack>bar swap>Light attack>Elemental weapon) seems to be performing better due to shock enchantment. Ofcourse having 40k+ mag with alfiq is comfortable, but i think 36k should be very reasonable amount to work around even for cloaking magblade.

Is there any another sets, which could perform better combined with mothers sorrow, on my initial rotation damage? As well i run slimecraw and can’t see any better option for my build atm

Tbh I would drop mother sorrow all together. I really dislike building crit like that because you can easily hit like 40-50% crit without it. And have much better stats in the process. Ms is a pve set through and through imo. You would be better off dropping Ms for a stat set like btb, shackle, necro, and then running your damage set.

Agreed. Crit itself is okay, crit modifier (in CP only) is what gives it punch.

Pvp wise mother’s sorrow is only a good healing set.

zrazmab16_ESO · November 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Tbh I would drop mother sorrow all together. I really dislike building crit like that because you can easily hit like 40-50% crit without it. And have much better stats in the process. Ms is a pve set through and through imo. You would be better off dropping Ms for a stat set like btb, shackle, necro, and then running your damage set.

Thanks for input. thinking of it I could achieve same
Crit chance by replacing MS with Julianos and using spell crit potions. Or swapping MS for Btb/alfiq and have a bit less crit chance, thought it’s not that important since in pvp I initiate fight from cloack.

Thx for advice guys

WacArnold · November 2019

@thankyourat

Tryed that build It does feel tanky. However, I still feel like my damage is lacking. I did a bunch of duels tonight trying it out, I feel better using this setup then my other build. But I dont see how you get a 24k tool tip mine is 20.8k with 50k magicka. I do not have infused on my restro staff with a damage enchant, is that adding 3k damage?

My bar setup is: shade, ele drain, fear, swallow, merciless, sHarvest
Siphoning, rapid, dampen, rat, cloak, TG

I dont like fear anymore since I dont have lotus fan, prolly switch that out for the destro kockback skill. Its probably me not setting up combos very well, I have never been good at a static rotation. Im a mess right now trying to juggle all the skills, need a lot more practice with this setup.

But if there is anyway to pump out more damage please let me know. I couldn't break through any sorcs shields, but I think if I can get ranged cc that might help.

BTW for anybody on xbox there is a cp bug with shields not increasing.

fred4 · November 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

Langeston · November 2019

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

What if you back bar Marauder's with Willpower on the front bar?
Or, if your other set is something like Spinner's, front bar that, back bar Marauder's, with 2 willpower rings.

ExistingRug61 · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

What if you back bar Marauder's with Willpower on the front bar?
Or, if your other set is something like Spinner's, front bar that, back bar Marauder's, with 2 willpower rings.

If your using healing ward you are probably already back barring brp Resto. Maybe if you were using harness/dampen but then as Fred noted you will run into low stat issues.

Really, if you want the speed and you don’t already have swift jewellery that’s a better option - three gold swift will give you 18% at the cost of ~2.5k mag (if replacing arcane) or ~300 spell damage or regen (if replacing infused). Which should be even or less than what you can gain with a more specialised 5piece bonus from another set. Plus the speed is permanent.

fred4 · November 2019

WacArnold wrote: »

Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.

This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

Langeston · November 2019

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

What if you back bar Marauder's with Willpower on the front bar?
Or, if your other set is something like Spinner's, front bar that, back bar Marauder's, with 2 willpower rings.

If your using healing ward you are probably already back barring brp Resto. Maybe if you were using harness/dampen but then as Fred noted you will run into low stat issues.

Really, if you want the speed and you don’t already have swift jewellery that’s a better option - three gold swift will give you 18% at the cost of ~2.5k mag (if replacing arcane) or ~300 spell damage or regen (if replacing infused). Which should be even or less than what you can gain with a more specialised 5piece bonus from another set. Plus the speed is permanent.

Yeah, I personally can't afford to do either swift or Marauder's, as I don't feel like I could stand the lower damage — there are already plenty of builds that I can't kill as it is. (Healing is just so over the top right now.) I just thought it might be a decent compromise.

fred4 · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

What if you back bar Marauder's with Willpower on the front bar?
Or, if your other set is something like Spinner's, front bar that, back bar Marauder's, with 2 willpower rings.

Those are all good ideas, but it doesn't change the fact that you can swap out Marauder for Bright Throat's in all those setups...

EDIT: Well, OK, you would usually double-bar Bright-Throat's, Alfiq or Necro. The real problem with back barring Marauder is that the BRP resto is too good.

...and have two things:

(1) A ton more magicka, good for your shield(s). Shields really only come alive when you're over 40K or, better yet, 50K magicka. That's where you actually start to feel tanky from using shields alone. Talking about warden and magblade here, not sorc.

(2) Bright Throat's gives you some IDLE MAGICKA REGEN from the 5-piece. On paper the regen from Marauder's looks almost the same, but it is not. The higher idle magicka regen translates into better sustain for RAT when the combat engine considers you out of combat while you're cloaking. This is what really kills the Marauder set for me as a perma-cloaking magblade. I can gain a higher top speed by using it, but my RAT sustain suffers. I also cannot stack RAT and the Marauder speed in a single GCD and I need the snare removal. So it doesn't do anything for me when I most need it, at least not in a build that uses shields reactively (Healing Ward) rather than proactively (Dampen / Harness). I feel ExistingRug is right. Swift is better and all Swift + Concealed + Steed + RAT already gets you pretty close to the speed cap.

Moonsorrow · November 2019

Did test Marauder`s on several combos, most decent (for my playstyle) was:

1p Domi/1p Pirate
5p BtB
Perfected Asylum Inferno front bar (Sharpened) with Immovable/Stam Poison

Marauder`s jewelry and back bar Resto. (Defending) Berserker glyph, not infused, but oh well..

A fresh feeling to play without BRP resto after a while lol. Lazy to go into full detail, but highligts:

+ Damage is quite decent, every 2nd Crushing Shock puts Burning, M.Vuln and Minor Maim on enemy, weaving lights and getting ready to AW combo, high pressure.

+ Running all spell dmg glyphs on jewelry, sustain enough from Ele Drain, btB, drink & Marauder obviously has 2x mag regen on it.

+ Marauder bar also makes me more often just move fast and not "perma cloaking" around all the time like usually, still.. can enjoy both too at the same time for MOAR speeds.

+ You live with Regen, Cloak, Resto ulti, Dampen & speed. Or die trying to bar swap at primetime. Magblade thuglife.

+ When someone pops a Detect Pot.. Well, Marauder`s Haste still makes me fast and can kite/LoS until can get back to offensive when massive blob gives up trying to chase you.

Conclusion: not perhaps the best setup i`ve played on my Magblade, bar space was a bit tight and took a while to get it the way i liked it, but fun and efficient still. Vulnerable to lag and the annoying random loadscreens though since rather squishy if not ninjaing between bars like a proper Magblade has to haha. You all know how it is.

Stay illusive brothers & sisters.

GhostofDatthaw · November 2019

I don't know how y'all don't like shade. That is my favorite skill, I aspire to be a total shade ninja, absolutely my favorite magnb skill

Iskiab · November 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I don't know how y'all don't like shade. That is my favorite skill, I aspire to be a total shade ninja, absolutely my favorite magnb skill

It’s good but it’s all about setting. If you’re say tower trolling it’s great. People might not have gap closers or any dots so you can go to town and take full advantage of it.

If you’re in a BG or against multiple people in solo/small group specs I don’t find it useful or too much of an investment to make it work. Getting separation from the shade with high incoming damage can be hard so I found I needed mist form too. If you aren’t in a tower or something like that people will camp the shade, I know I keep an eye on it ready to gap close it and burst.

It takes about a GCD for the port to finish I think it is, and any dots will keep ticking.

thankyourat · November 2019

WacArnold wrote: »

@thankyourat

Tryed that build It does feel tanky. However, I still feel like my damage is lacking. I did a bunch of duels tonight trying it out, I feel better using this setup then my other build. But I dont see how you get a 24k tool tip mine is 20.8k with 50k magicka. I do not have infused on my restro staff with a damage enchant, is that adding 3k damage?

My bar setup is: shade, ele drain, fear, swallow, merciless, sHarvest
Siphoning, rapid, dampen, rat, cloak, TG

I dont like fear anymore since I dont have lotus fan, prolly switch that out for the destro kockback skill. Its probably me not setting up combos very well, I have never been good at a static rotation. Im a mess right now trying to juggle all the skills, need a lot more practice with this setup.

But if there is anyway to pump out more damage please let me know. I couldn't break through any sorcs shields, but I think if I can get ranged cc that might help.

BTW for anybody on xbox there is a cp bug with shields not increasing.

What’s your race, what Mundus are you using and are you adding in continuous attack. I use a infused berserk glyph on the back bar as well. With everything procd it should put your bow at 24k. There are Some players I still can’t burst down but that’s pretty standard for a open world build on all classes. If you want more damage my 1v1 build is spinner/necro/slime crawl with 2 regen glyphs and shadow mundus stone. I don’t like it for Cyrodil because the sustain is a bit on the low side the damage is way higher though.

You can also switch out troll king for a offensive monster set but you’ll lose a good deal of survivability. Sorc shields are impossible to break through if they build defensive. Anyone with black rose resto or dual wield are also impossible to kill. Defense in the game is out of control this patch. I would keep fear on your bar just in case you come up against a dodge roll or block build.

GhostofDatthaw · November 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I don't know how y'all don't like shade. That is my favorite skill, I aspire to be a total shade ninja, absolutely my favorite magnb skill

It’s good but it’s all about setting. If you’re say tower trolling it’s great. People might not have gap closers or any dots so you can go to town and take full advantage of it.

If you’re in a BG or against multiple people in solo/small group specs I don’t find it useful or too much of an investment to make it work. Getting separation from the shade with high incoming damage can be hard so I found I needed mist form too. If you aren’t in a tower or something like that people will camp the shade, I know I keep an eye on it ready to gap close it and burst.

It takes about a GCD for the port to finish I think it is, and any dots will keep ticking.

I find the more you use it, the better you get with taking advantage of it. And if people camp the shade, then cool I kite out further, they just strung themselves out more. If you use it alot it's useful everywhere not just towers, I can make people chase me all over in flat ground with no los just by shade and dodge roll. Shade ruins melee builds because you can just kite them in circles and force them to gap spam. And in small groups I use it to reposition myself around. It just takes alot of foresight to what your objective is, but I find the skill amazing in all forms of play from cyro to duels.

Kim_Angel · November 2019

Stil My favorite Build/Combi of Sets , and it works pretty well without any swift or stuff , RAT used right with a Dogderoll and Cloak , all Fine
BRP Would be nice but i dont have one ... so Flex on Backbar also can get Shade in somewhere , depends if i play Small Group or Solo.
And forgive me iam still an Old School MeeleMB :P

Caluu/BTB Version
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=147790

BTB/Spinners Version
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=190264

Love
Kim

Langeston · November 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

I tried it too. You lose so much stat compared to wearing something like Bright-Throat's. The clincher for me was that I use RAT. Given the choice of RAT -> dodge roll -> Cloak or Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> Cloak (I play with a fair amound of stam regen), I find RAT is basically fine, as is Healing Ward without the speed at different times. The set would probably suit a build that uses the light armor shield. Then again, you lose so much mag and thereby weaken your shield. It's just not very good.

It's frustrating that shield size is tied to magicka and that healing is tied to damage stats. Everything pushes you towards optimizing your basic stats. Many things that are nice to play result in a damage or healing / shielding deficit that nerfs you pretty hard.

What if you back bar Marauder's with Willpower on the front bar?
Or, if your other set is something like Spinner's, front bar that, back bar Marauder's, with 2 willpower rings.

Those are all good ideas, but it doesn't change the fact that you can swap out Marauder for Bright Throat's in all those setups...

EDIT: Well, OK, you would usually double-bar Bright-Throat's, Alfiq or Necro. The real problem with back barring Marauder is that the BRP resto is too good.

...and have two things:

(1) A ton more magicka, good for your shield(s). Shields really only come alive when you're over 40K or, better yet, 50K magicka. That's where you actually start to feel tanky from using shields alone. Talking about warden and magblade here, not sorc.

(2) Bright Throat's gives you some IDLE MAGICKA REGEN from the 5-piece. On paper the regen from Marauder's looks almost the same, but it is not. The higher idle magicka regen translates into better sustain for RAT when the combat engine considers you out of combat while you're cloaking. This is what really kills the Marauder set for me as a perma-cloaking magblade. I can gain a higher top speed by using it, but my RAT sustain suffers. I also cannot stack RAT and the Marauder speed in a single GCD and I need the snare removal. So it doesn't do anything for me when I most need it, at least not in a build that uses shields reactively (Healing Ward) rather than proactively (Dampen / Harness). I feel ExistingRug is right. Swift is better and all Swift + Concealed + Steed + RAT already gets you pretty close to the speed cap.

Well as I said, I'd likely never use Marauder's or swift because it would be too much of a drop in damage for me. I was simply throwing out possible ideas for someone wanting to use the set.

My question to you though: how do you run steed & swift while still being able to actually kill people? If I did that I'd lose 4196 penetration from the Lover and roughly 2.9k magicka from the arcane trait on my jewelry. That's more damage than Spinner's gives me! I'd love to be able to be that quick, but I just don't see how it could be viable.

I use Slimecraw/Bright Throat's/Spinner's — all Divines — w/ Lover, a Sharpened Inferno, & Ghastly Eye Bowl. I do well but there are definitely builds I simply just can't kill because they can out-heal my damage — and I'm already as glass cannon as I can get. I feel like just the switch to swift/steed would absolutely cripple me.

What sets do you use?

[edit] Also, what do you mean by "idle magicka regen"?

Langeston · November 2019

Kim_Angel wrote: »

Stil My favorite Build/Combi of Sets , and it works pretty well without any swift or stuff , RAT used right with a Dogderoll and Cloak , all Fine
BRP Would be nice but i dont have one ... so Flex on Backbar also can get Shade in somewhere , depends if i play Small Group or Solo.
And forgive me iam still an Old School MeeleMB :P

Caluu/BTB Version
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=147790

BTB/Spinners Version
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=190264

Love
Kim

I run Spinner's/BTB and your health /stamina & resistances completely put mine to shame. (I only run 2 tri-stat glyphs, Ghastly Eye Bowl, & my monster sets are all damage so that's to be expected.) I'm ranged though, so I can usually get away with it. I wish I could run with such [relatively] low regen like you do, alas I cannot. (I use 1 recovery & 2 spell cost reduction glyphs.)

I'm curious why you chose the Atronarch and 2 spell damage glyphs rather than the Lover & all magicka recovery glyphs. (Especially on your Caluurion setup, which I would think would definitely benefit more from the extra penetration.)

Right now I'm running with the Lover & get 17.5k penetration & it really helps quite a bit. (Sometimes I swap to the Shadow, which can be pretty brutal against light/medium armor since I run all divines, but it kinda blows against all the tanks running around.)

fred4 · November 2019

Idle magicka regen is the magicka regen you have while not in combat. It appears to be something like twice the magicka regen from:

(a) Your base regen
(b) Your racial passives
(c) The Atro mundus (if used)
(d) Food / Drink (if it includes mag regen)
(e) The 5-piece bonus from Bright Throat's (if used)

but NOT magicka regen you get from armor sets (other than something like Lich 5-piece) nor jewelry enchants. One of the incomprehensible quirks of the combat engine. If you get Harven's Extended Stats on PC, it will display it. Note that cloak can take you out of combat pretty quickly, especially if you are not in a group. That is when the idle regen comes into play.

fred4 · November 2019

Langeston wrote: »

My question to you though: how do you run steed & swift while still being able to actually kill people? If I did that I'd lose 4196 penetration from the Lover and roughly 2.9k magicka from the arcane trait on my jewelry. That's more damage than Spinner's gives me! I'd love to be able to be that quick, but I just don't see how it could be viable.

I use Slimecraw/Bright Throat's/Spinner's — all Divines — w/ Lover, a Sharpened Inferno, & Ghastly Eye Bowl. I do well but there are definitely builds I simply just can't kill because they can out-heal my damage — and I'm already as glass cannon as I can get. I feel like just the switch to swift/steed would absolutely cripple me.

What sets do you use?

I was using Caluurion, Zaan, BTB and Blackrose resto. Right now I'm trying something tankier. Build is on the previous page in this thread.

I do not think you can kill everyone you meet in open world. At least not on magblade. Not talking about outright tanks. Most small scalers are either too tanky to kill by a single player - BS / Fury / Seventh / 1H+S back bar makes for an incredibly tanky DK or warden - or because they know how to defend. I take that as a given. I attack everyone, but my expectations are pretty low. The clip I posted is from the IC event. A lot of not so good players there.

fred4 · November 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I don't know how y'all don't like shade. That is my favorite skill, I aspire to be a total shade ninja, absolutely my favorite magnb skill

It’s good but it’s all about setting. If you’re say tower trolling it’s great. People might not have gap closers or any dots so you can go to town and take full advantage of it.

If you’re in a BG or against multiple people in solo/small group specs I don’t find it useful or too much of an investment to make it work. Getting separation from the shade with high incoming damage can be hard so I found I needed mist form too. If you aren’t in a tower or something like that people will camp the shade, I know I keep an eye on it ready to gap close it and burst.

It takes about a GCD for the port to finish I think it is, and any dots will keep ticking.

I find the more you use it, the better you get with taking advantage of it. And if people camp the shade, then cool I kite out further, they just strung themselves out more. If you use it alot it's useful everywhere not just towers, I can make people chase me all over in flat ground with no los just by shade and dodge roll. Shade ruins melee builds because you can just kite them in circles and force them to gap spam. And in small groups I use it to reposition myself around. It just takes alot of foresight to what your objective is, but I find the skill amazing in all forms of play from cyro to duels.

I believe you, but I'm in the camp where I simply hated the shade from day one and continue to do so. That's due to never learning, sure. I have a mental block when it comes to toggles. This includes the shade, Merciless, Frags (to a lesser degree) and the default keybinding for bar swap. When you press a key, one definite thing should happen, not one of two things. If the shade could be rebound so that setting it down and porting to the shade were two different keys, I would reconsider. Mercifully this can be done with the bar swap keys.

I'm a key spammer. I press keys multiple times until something happens, at least during defensive play. The unresponsiveness of the game drives me nuts. This especially refers to lag, but there are also other weird anomalies. For example bar swap often seems unresponsive for a couple of seconds when you've just loaded into the game or, sometimes, into a new area. Happens every time I go down from IC districts into the sewers, for example.

When word processing was in it's infancy, most word processors offered an insert mode and an overwrite mode, which was toggled, for example, using the Insert key on the keyboard. Default was insert mode, the behaviour of every program today. Write something and it gets inserted at the caret (cursor) position. Overwrite mode meant you would overwrite existing text at that position. Word processors either do not offer that feature anymore or people don't use it today, because ergonomically toggles are [snip]. General computing has evolved away from that sort of thing, yet here is ZOS. I know why they did it. It's because this game has a console version with limited input options and because gamers tolerate bad ergonomics to a degree.

At any rate, with so many builds to choose from and the existence of Caluurion and RAT, I thankfully do not have to use what I vehemently disagree with as a programmer from a design standpoint. I end up immediately porting to the shade I just set or using Merciless / Assassin's Will in unintended ways. Hate both, even with all the usability improvements to Merciless.

[edited for profanity bypass]