Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 15
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 15
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The PTS is now offline for the patch 10.0.0 maintenance and is currently unavailable.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
In response to the ongoing issue, the North American PC/Mac megaserver is currently unavailable while we perform maintenance. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
This patch can’t go live. For the love of this game do not let this go live as is
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LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭We all know it is going live... otherwise things like Living Dark and old Rune Cage would never have happened.PS NA 1800+ CP
Have played all classes.
Warden Main1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to playEdited by Joy_Division on October 16, 2019 2:43AM63 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.
Null? I'll repeat myself.Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.Edited by Joy_Division on October 16, 2019 3:12AM27 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your only choice will be to quit if you will not accept it. Even play the game without ESO+ and without buying DLCs is still accepting the update as you are contributing to the health of the game.
People cry out the sky is falling all the time so it really lacks much meaning to suggest you will quit the game or stop paying Zos money.2 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.
Null? I'll repeat myself.Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to devolve and become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
My mistake. You were very clear, my brain that's just tired.
And yes, it's pretty common. Between programming clutter, greed, power creep, innovations for the sake of innovations... Plenty of reasons that lead most, if not all, MMOs downhill. Some go down faster, some take longer, but eventually they all get this feeling of "whyyyyyyy???" that we're getting from ZOS right now. I don't think it's a philosophy, but a consequence of corporate thinking. Gotta keep ignorant nameless investors happy somehow.
OH, and unfriendly unwelcoming economies are also a thing that happen. If inflation's isn't kept at a hardcore check, it's impossible for new players to enjoy the game, and lots of games fail there too. ESO has so many gold sinks, it's one of the most stable economies I've seen in MMOs. Helps with this aura of casual friendly game too.Edited by ZonasArch on October 16, 2019 3:20AM9 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭I completely agree, they nerfed my class I've been since 1.2 to the point of where I just can't get the playstyle I like at all to work anymore. First time I've unsubbed since 2014.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling7 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.
Null? I'll repeat myself.Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to devolve and become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
My mistake. You were very clear, my brain that's just tired.
And yes, it's pretty common. Between programming clutter, greed, power creep, innovations for the sake of innovations... Plenty of reasons that lead most, if not all, MMOs downhill. Some go down faster, some take longer, but eventually they all get this feeling of "whyyyyyyy???" that we're getting from ZOS right now. I don't think it's a philosophy, but a consequence of corporate thinking. Gotta keep ignorant nameless investors happy somehow.
OH, and unfriendly unwelcoming economies are also a thing that happen. If inflation's isn't kept at a hardcore check, it's impossible for new players to enjoy the game, and lots of games fail there too. ESO has so many gold sinks, it's one of the most stable economies I've seen in MMOs. Helps with this aura of casual friendly game too.
Fair enough. I think it would be better to build off of a foundation of the parts we do like rather than try to reinvent the game every 3 months, but I guess that's unrealistic.12 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭
Your only choice will be to quit if you will not accept it. Even play the game without ESO+ and without buying DLCs is still accepting the update as you are contributing to the health of the game.
People cry out the sky is falling all the time so it really lacks much meaning to suggest you will quit the game or stop paying Zos money.
Only choice is to quit really this is why corporate office numbers are public knowledge if the combat team doesn’t listen speak to their superiors.0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your only choice will be to quit if you will not accept it. Even play the game without ESO+ and without buying DLCs is still accepting the update as you are contributing to the health of the game.
People cry out the sky is falling all the time so it really lacks much meaning to suggest you will quit the game or stop paying Zos money.
Only choice is to quit really this is why corporate office numbers are public knowledge if the combat team doesn’t listen speak to their superiors.
I actually just unsubbed and already have a new mmo in mind
Sadly ZOS would rather as said above "reinvent the game every 3months" than just improve what they have. Edited by Casterial on October 16, 2019 4:02AMDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling7 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.
Null? I'll repeat myself.Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to devolve and become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
My mistake. You were very clear, my brain that's just tired.
And yes, it's pretty common. Between programming clutter, greed, power creep, innovations for the sake of innovations... Plenty of reasons that lead most, if not all, MMOs downhill. Some go down faster, some take longer, but eventually they all get this feeling of "whyyyyyyy???" that we're getting from ZOS right now. I don't think it's a philosophy, but a consequence of corporate thinking. Gotta keep ignorant nameless investors happy somehow.
OH, and unfriendly unwelcoming economies are also a thing that happen. If inflation's isn't kept at a hardcore check, it's impossible for new players to enjoy the game, and lots of games fail there too. ESO has so many gold sinks, it's one of the most stable economies I've seen in MMOs. Helps with this aura of casual friendly game too.
Fair enough. I think it would be better to build off of a foundation of the parts we do like rather than try to reinvent the game every 3 months, but I guess that's unrealistic.
Most MMO's don't make drastic changes like these every three months. You will usually see gradual nerfs over time. The only time you usually see such drastic nerfs are for things that are blatantly overpowered or unintended.
The balance philosophy that Zos is using is some new *** to me. I've been playing MMO's since 2003 and have never seen this much back and forth drastic nerfing and buffing in this short a period in all the games I have played. This is a first for me.17 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭
Your only choice will be to quit if you will not accept it. Even play the game without ESO+ and without buying DLCs is still accepting the update as you are contributing to the health of the game.
People cry out the sky is falling all the time so it really lacks much meaning to suggest you will quit the game or stop paying Zos money.
Only choice is to quit really this is why corporate office numbers are public knowledge if the combat team doesn’t listen speak to their superiors.
I actually just unsubbed and already have a new mmo in mind Sadly ZOS would rather as said above "reinvent the game every 3months" than just improve what they have.
I have invested a lot into this game time and financially I can’t just give up and play something else. This game actually is pretty important to me for a few reasons. Most of which deal with something that happened to me in 20150 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your only choice will be to quit if you will not accept it. Even play the game without ESO+ and without buying DLCs is still accepting the update as you are contributing to the health of the game.
People cry out the sky is falling all the time so it really lacks much meaning to suggest you will quit the game or stop paying Zos money.
Only choice is to quit really this is why corporate office numbers are public knowledge if the combat team doesn’t listen speak to their superiors.
I actually just unsubbed and already have a new mmo in mind Sadly ZOS would rather as said above "reinvent the game every 3months" than just improve what they have.
I have invested a lot into this game time and financially I can’t just give up and play something else. This game actually is pretty important to me for a few reasons. Most of which deal with something that happened to me in 2015
Same here, I followed the game in the first announcement they made in a magazine back in 2012/13. From there I signed up for alpha on 3 accounts, got into 1. Played since then. I love this game, invested thousands into the game... But sadly its time for me to part I think, ZOS just doesn't listen.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling7 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
ESO was my first, but not only modern MMO. (Excluding MUDs.) Devs make mistakes and no one is perfect. But it's the only game I've seen where the patch notes deliberately call out fun things for nerfs instead of working on providing equally fun counters... in some cases removing fun things that already had abundant counters, like blaze-plars.
The graveyard of unique, fun builds and skills grows every patch, and they usually aren't being replaced by new fun things to try.15 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »
Doubtful they will b back as 2 guilds full I was in just called it quits 1000 players9 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
^^THIS^^ is also my biggest pain point with the mess they've created. Enjoyment, apparently, is something they can't factor into an equation. But there must be blissful ignorance in the bubble, I guess.
Well, at least we can take solace in the idea that next year, when this disaster turns malignant, we'll be back here saying "We told you so!" when people start losing their jobs...if you can call YouTube a job.12 -
GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭Reading briefly through several forums it appears as no player feedback is being truly considered with changes being implemented.
Dots over nerfed and buffed up but still missing the claimed target of 33% weaker than live.
Stone fist being pushed through despite numerous complaints to its cost its animation (slam dunk would have been a stam whip but no)
Now this 50% nerf to daedric prey yet where is the power fantasy then for a pet master
Sustain is awful and this alone is a large amount of the problem
Postpone dragonhold launch and add another 4 weeks of testing or don’t implement these changes at all to live with dragonhold.
Sincerely
A very concerned and adamant player
They dont give a ***. They didnt even give a *** with nerfmire and a member of the dev team left because of how HATED that patch was. They didnt give a *** about the entire skill audit process despite the fact its abundantly clear players didnt want it and it has had a noticeable impact on the games population. Didnt give a *** about multibid despite every gm and officer telling them its a trainwreck. Didnt listen to the dot buff concerns, patch later there nerfing it, didnt care when they needlessly buffed runecage and then nerfed it a patch later. didnt care when they made templar garbage for a year, still dont care about then they made magden garbage from launch.
They 110% do not, never have and never will care about feedback or quality or bug testing. Long as casuals shut up and buy crates, business as usual. They cant delay a patch, are you crazy? What about all the crownstore items that this patch will add or that they have planned to go along with this patches theme. so what if the game is bugged, or we all hate combat now. Long as you can access the crown store and your purchasing doesnt lag its 100% ok21 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Reading briefly through several forums it appears as no player feedback is being truly considered with changes being implemented.
Dots over nerfed and buffed up but still missing the claimed target of 33% weaker than live.
Stone fist being pushed through despite numerous complaints to its cost its animation (slam dunk would have been a stam whip but no)
Now this 50% nerf to daedric prey yet where is the power fantasy then for a pet master
Sustain is awful and this alone is a large amount of the problem
Postpone dragonhold launch and add another 4 weeks of testing or don’t implement these changes at all to live with dragonhold.
Sincerely
A very concerned and adamant player
They dont give a ***. They didnt even give a *** with nerfmire and a member of the dev team left because of how HATED that patch was. They didnt give a *** about the entire skill audit process despite the fact its abundantly clear players didnt want it and it has had a noticeable impact on the games population. Didnt give a *** about multibid despite every gm and officer telling them its a trainwreck. Didnt listen to the dot buff concerns, patch later there nerfing it, didnt care when they needlessly buffed runecage and then nerfed it a patch later. didnt care when they made templar garbage for a year, still dont care about then they made magden garbage from launch.
They 110% do not, never have and never will care about feedback or quality or bug testing. Long as casuals shut up and buy crates, business as usual. They cant delay a patch, are you crazy? What about all the crownstore items that this patch will add or that they have planned to go along with this patches theme. so what if the game is bugged, or we all hate combat now. Long as you can access the crown store and your purchasing doesnt lag its 100% ok
I’m right there with ya in frustration but if everybody just stops caring or putting an effort to make devs see their folly then this game will not last much longer.
The dlc and content does not need to be delayed however delaying these combat changes would be a start3 -
beadabow✭✭✭Stop trying to get me to quit playing. I like ESO. Okay, so there are other things I can do with my life, but ESO is still fun for me. So I have to figure out a new rotation, get some new gear, fight the same old monsters and get the same old junk in the loot. Doesn't really matter anymore. I just want to play.8 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
ESO was my first, but not only modern MMO. (Excluding MUDs.) Devs make mistakes and no one is perfect. But it's the only game I've seen where the patch notes deliberately call out fun things for nerfs instead of working on providing equally fun counters... in some cases removing fun things that already had abundant counters, like blaze-plars.
The graveyard of unique, fun builds and skills grows every patch, and they usually aren't being replaced by new fun things to try.
It's strange how the trajectory for years now has been to outright remove or whittle down our best combat moves. "We've noticed you're not using the other morph, so we're going to make the one you like a lot less fun," and "This allows your class to be flexible without paying a high price, it has to go," suggest that fun is really, really far down their priority list. But isn't that why people play games? Fun is the whole point.
I realize what's fun varies, but pretty sure most of us aren't hoping our skills will lose power and effects, and get more costly. Or just be deleted. You weren't using that, right? Because now it's for healers. Now it's a passive buff. Now it's a meme nobody will ever use again, in keeping with our standard for similar skills.
Forcing everyone toward light and heavy attacks could be explained by the failure of this game engine and megaserver experiment, but I really don't understand why their go-to move with combat skills is subtract, flatten, remove.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯12 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Is it characteristic for MMOs to become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
Ever since WOW it´s become somewhat of an inevitable fact for almost all major mmo releases (atleast the ones i played).
WOW over time has massively decreased the games difficulty in every form or shape and other MMO devs have followed suit - because it´s the most successful game on the market and they must do something right in that regard - or not?
This decrease in difficulty and complexity is done in an attempt to increase the potential playerbase - most gamers aren´t core gamers but rather casuals that spend only a few hours a week with no time to really get into mechanics or grindy systems and complex skilltrees.
From my perspective virtually every mmo developer has missed the mark with this philosophy so far bc instead of allowing for easier access but still retaining a learning curve and keeping their original skill ceiling and providing rewarding content for all players along the way they´ve chose to lower the skill ceiling along with the entry point.
This alienates their core playerbase over time and ironically also the "lower skilled" players they originally hooked with this because those also improve over time invested (just at a slower pace or from a lower starting point than core players) and get turned off by dumbed down gameplay.
The gravest mistake that now follows in compensating for the loss of those alienated players is reducing the ceiling even further in an attempt to make the game accessible for even more players at the lower end of the spectrum and a vicious cycle of self destruction is started.
Have seen this happen in too many games since wow came out sadly.Edited by Derra on October 16, 2019 11:54AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 5015 -
GusTheWizard✭✭✭✭The cost of Stonefist is fine.
This makes it around 2100 Stam, which is in line with the other spammables.Edited by GusTheWizard on October 16, 2019 12:59PM2 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GusTheWizard wrote: »The cost of Stonefist is fine.
This makes it around 2100 Stam, which is in line with the other spammables.
If you run VO it's even cheaper than most spammables.Playing since beta...2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Makes me wonder why wow classic is such a huge success then... Or old school RuneScape. Just to stick to popular MMOs.
I could bring gta online here too, that's going FAST towards becoming saints row online...
Whether I like the patches or not, that's irrelevant here, but saying this is the only game where patches make the game worse is a stretch that renders your argument null.
Also, worse/better is a pov. I'm of the opinion that reducing DPS is great, but also that sucky sustain is bad for casual average players. To me, is this patch good or bad?
Answer? Both. Just like all the other patches ever in every game ever. Some people like it, some don't, most don't care or even hear about the changes.
And I'll go even further to say that after sustain gets figured out, metawise, no one will be too upset. Just like Morrowind. Remember that patch? I do. It sucked.
Null? I'll repeat myself.Joy_Division wrote: »This is the only game I have ever played where patches make it less enjoyable to play
Is it characteristic for MMOs to devolve and become less fun to play over time? It's an honest question, I haven't played one before. It doesn't strike me as a very sound business philosophy.
My mistake. You were very clear, my brain that's just tired.
And yes, it's pretty common. Between programming clutter, greed, power creep, innovations for the sake of innovations... Plenty of reasons that lead most, if not all, MMOs downhill. Some go down faster, some take longer, but eventually they all get this feeling of "whyyyyyyy???" that we're getting from ZOS right now. I don't think it's a philosophy, but a consequence of corporate thinking. Gotta keep ignorant nameless investors happy somehow.
OH, and unfriendly unwelcoming economies are also a thing that happen. If inflation's isn't kept at a hardcore check, it's impossible for new players to enjoy the game, and lots of games fail there too. ESO has so many gold sinks, it's one of the most stable economies I've seen in MMOs. Helps with this aura of casual friendly game too.
Fair enough. I think it would be better to build off of a foundation of the parts we do like rather than try to reinvent the game every 3 months, but I guess that's unrealistic.
I fully agree. However, Zos has mentioned vision a few times yet they really seem to lack vision and that comes from early on in the game.
Why just now are they codifying a vision for combat in the game? It seems that should have been done way more than 6 years ago and since it was not done, or not done well back then, they have struggled to manage this game since launch.
A great example of the lack of vision is the CP system. When Zos introduced it there was no artificial cap like we have now and they stated the average player would reach the full 3600 points in less than 2 years. When it was tested on the PTS we have access to the full 3600 points. We noted how OP we were with the full points yet Zos released it where we could get the full 3600 pts.
Granted, they made adjustments and placed the artificial cap we now have but it just goes to show how little Zos thinks things through and this is just one example. I personally think it is the same poor guidance, or lack of it, that is the reason this game launched in such a poor state back in 2014.3
https://youtu.be/WyTj4Sbtulo