When you can tell who is going to win a BG just by looking the classes on each team...

Langeston · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

Iskiab · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It is not so much the classes but the builds that players use.

If you go in BG deathmatch with a selfish build and all your teammates have also selfish builds you will have hard time.

Most important part in my builds is: my cross healing should be at least 30% of my damage output. Keeping my teammates alive release the pressure on me.

The weakest class cannot do that unless they are a dedicated healer — in fact most of the time they can't even heal themselves. That's kind of my whole point actually: some classes can have [among] the highest healing while still having the highest damage & most kills — I actually see that relatively frequently. That's not balance.

Every magicka class can do that. Probably every stamina too, you just need the other morph of vigor.
Then you will tell me: "But if I use the other morph of vigor I will have no burst heal." If anyone go with a group build in BG and not selfish builds you will be fine because you will get cross healing from your teammates. Echoing vigor and bogdan helm will be enough cross healing.

You don't play a NB do you?

I dont like the class and this the only class that I ve never really played a lot. I have 2 leveled NBs but just dont like it.

Now I see you talk about mNB, just slot blockade (+ shock or frost enchant infused destro), slot Radiating Regeneration + healing orbs and bogdan. One recovery set, one dps set and then take advantage of your ranged execute. Stay with your group, once you reach high MMR it will be easier as ppl stick together. When you are focused roll in your group.

Like I said this worked in the last tense. Burst is too high now for this style to work. Even with high

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

This isn’t true.

I can see why some NBs go full glass canon. Why spec for defense if it’ll never be enough to save yourself anyways?

I’ve worn 2 defensive sets plus transmutation and can still get 3 shot. I can still global people with the onslaught buff up, why stack resistances if it can be countered. Might as well work on an attainable goal like more damage then an unattainable one like a tanky NB.

the1andonlyskwex · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

You yourself said that you've got a glass cannon build that often has the fewest deaths of anyone in BGs. If that's not trivializing the balance between damage and survivability, I don't know what is (assuming you're not just going AFK).

azjuwelz · October 2019

I used to play bgs on my stamblade, but since NBs have been so nerfed lately, I feel it's simply not fair to my teammates to bring this class any longer. I really miss the stun on Incap; it feels like we lost pretty much all of our cc ability. And maybe NBs will never be wanted in bgs because frankly the class identity IS a solo rogue with inherently selfish skills. I do great in Cyrodil and IC because of the difference in maps and playstyle. (Not a gank build, just to get that out of the way). But perhaps it's unrealistic to expect all classes to do well in all content.

The ratios of AoE vs dmg is interesting, though I'm not sure what it means. I know that for stamblade, I typically have to look to non-class skills for AoE, and of course those were all nerfed.

My alternate that I use now in bgs is my magwarden healer. She pretty much does nothing BUT provide group utility, and because of that earns me top score quite often, for the sheer number of assists and healing badges. It's funny watching stam characters trying to carve me up while I stand there outhealing them and damaging them at the same time.

Langeston · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

You yourself said that you've got a glass cannon build that often has the fewest deaths of anyone in BGs. If that's not trivializing the balance between damage and survivability, I don't know what is (assuming you're not just going AFK).

Well perhaps I misspoke. It's not really a glass cannon, it's just as close to a glass cannon as you can get with a Magblade — more like a glass slingshot. I learned pretty quickly that it takes the same number of hits to kill a Magblade in impen as it does to kill one in all divines. So I went all divines in the hopes of eking out enough damage to actually get some kills. Like I said, try playing a Magblade the same way you play your DK & see for yourself. It's not as easy as you seem to think.

Royalthought · October 2019

dominguero96 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

1. I said listing single target skills is very Xv1 ish. You listed them again. There’s no confusion on which are single target and which aren’t. Of the AOE skills you listed, path of darkness I said was the highlight of the “group utility.” Hence proving the OP right.

2. We know what Xv1 is. And this is an even more Xv1 ish statement. It’s simple, nightblades most effective skills hit 1 target. Other classes hit many. Resulting in other classes being better at group utility.

It’s clear that nb are bottom tier in group play. So instead of going in circles, I’ll ask. Are you saying that nightblades are one of the best classes for group play? Or are you more so just pointing out what they CAN do?

1) I listed 7 skills, only 2 of which can in any way be interpreted as single target.

2) Maybe your XvX strategy should include coordinating with your group to focus targets.

2a) Of 12 NB skills that do damage, 6 have at least one morph that does AoE damage.

I'm definitely not saying NBs are top tier. I'm saying they're not nearly as terrible at providing "group utility" as you seem to think. Perhaps you should try adjusting your build to take advantage of the options you already have before coming here and complaining. At least then you'll be able to complain about specific skills/problems instead of just whining that NBs are bad.

mate if you think nbs give group utility you havent played any other class.
The only "good" skill for groups gives major expedition and little heals in a small area. The others suck.
Yeah we have stuns and fear, as all staminas have now. That's all.

pd: if anyone think of the debuff nb puts well, compareit to the necros one.

Arguing that nightblades have solid group utility.... Because of path, dark shades, consuming, lotus, mark and debilitate. Lol

The number of abilities don’t matter. It’s a matter of quality.

Dr_Ganknstein · October 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

i lul @ stamblades

Heck yeah brah, I just que to shred some a$$. Cowabunga dude!

Abyssmol · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

On my nightblade im 89% top of my team regardless of what classes are in my group and 65%of the time im top out of all 3 teams so back off nightblades we all dont run and hide at 1st site of an enemy

I like this! A NB that do not run and hide against one opponent. So rate this days!

arkansas_ESO · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I don't die much. Usually I have the fewest deaths in BGs, unless we're up against a premade. My issue is lack of burst. Healing/defense is a secondary concern for me.

Oh, I see, you're trying to play a build where you can burst people down from 100% to 0% before they can mount any sort of counterattack (and then you cloak and run if it doesn't work). I'm pretty sure ZOS doesn't want that approach to work very well.

If ZOS doesn't want NB to build around one-shotting, then they need to give them the defense to stand and fight. Of course NBs build to oneshot and cloak away when the alternative is trying to survive incoming damage without any sort of reliable burst heal.

universal_wrath · October 2019

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

I will add this one.

See mag sorc: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill. Steal our kills.

See stam sorc: He's going to war with us. Free kill.

universal_wrath · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

And this is actually why ZOS should NOT bother to try to balance anything for PvP.

Trying to balance for PvP in ESO is trying to balance against a moving target of builds and team combinations and different situations (BG versus open world versus duels versus whatever). It's more than futile it's idiocy.
Trying to balance for PvE is totally different -- ZOS has full control over the static balance target of NPCs, and most of the time of the encounter arena as well. That means one side of the equation is basically 100% knowable.
Other games that balance for PvP have it easier because they reduce the number of variables -- they focus on matches where there are a limited number of toons per team; they have tight classes without a huge range of choices of what the class can do; etcetera. ESO has far too many variables even from trying to put one class together.

Just let the PvP community come up with their own counters, or play what they think is the OP meta. If everyone's playing the same thing, it's balanced. Complaining about the enemy's build? The enemy's team makeup? Play the same thing.
BUT for people who don't want to do that (remember, ZOS wants to do power fantasy and play your own way), implement proper LEAGUES to sort people.

LEAGUES applies not just to BG but Cyrodiil and IC. Unless you have leagues for open world, there will be too many zergs (you won't eliminate them entirely) and consequently whining about zergs.
Zergs are when people don't want to play a cookie cutter build and want to play their way. So they bunch up and mow down the opposition -- because it works. No different than camping IC sewer doors get people as they transition in -- it works.

I'm not even asking for them to to balance for PvP, I'd just like my Magblade's skills to be within spitting distance of my Magsorc's. The Magsorc has ~600 less spell power, but the skills do 2k+ more damage — and they are absurdly easy to use compared to the blade. This isn't just PVP, the Sorc just does more damage all around, with way less spell power. Why would ZOS allow such a glaring deficit?

Max magicka. Most Skills in the game work on highest offensive stats of their respective dmg. If a skill does magical dmg, normaly it would scale with iether spell dmg or max magicka, likewise if skill does physical dmg, it scale with weapon dmg or max stamina which ever is highest. New skills work on both specs like streak for example, it deals magicka dmg and it used to scal with max magicka and spell dmg, now it scales with highest offensive stat either be it spell dmg, weapon dmg, max magicka or stamina. This theoriticaly allows for build diversity of classes.

I should not that because mag sorc uses shields to survive, their shlieds scale with max magicka only rather than both max magicka and spell dmg, so naturally you would see sorcerer have highest mag pools of all classes in general.

Langeston · October 2019

universal_wrath wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

And this is actually why ZOS should NOT bother to try to balance anything for PvP.

Trying to balance for PvP in ESO is trying to balance against a moving target of builds and team combinations and different situations (BG versus open world versus duels versus whatever). It's more than futile it's idiocy.
Trying to balance for PvE is totally different -- ZOS has full control over the static balance target of NPCs, and most of the time of the encounter arena as well. That means one side of the equation is basically 100% knowable.
Other games that balance for PvP have it easier because they reduce the number of variables -- they focus on matches where there are a limited number of toons per team; they have tight classes without a huge range of choices of what the class can do; etcetera. ESO has far too many variables even from trying to put one class together.

Just let the PvP community come up with their own counters, or play what they think is the OP meta. If everyone's playing the same thing, it's balanced. Complaining about the enemy's build? The enemy's team makeup? Play the same thing.
BUT for people who don't want to do that (remember, ZOS wants to do power fantasy and play your own way), implement proper LEAGUES to sort people.

LEAGUES applies not just to BG but Cyrodiil and IC. Unless you have leagues for open world, there will be too many zergs (you won't eliminate them entirely) and consequently whining about zergs.
Zergs are when people don't want to play a cookie cutter build and want to play their way. So they bunch up and mow down the opposition -- because it works. No different than camping IC sewer doors get people as they transition in -- it works.

I'm not even asking for them to to balance for PvP, I'd just like my Magblade's skills to be within spitting distance of my Magsorc's. The Magsorc has ~600 less spell power, but the skills do 2k+ more damage — and they are absurdly easy to use compared to the blade. This isn't just PVP, the Sorc just does more damage all around, with way less spell power. Why would ZOS allow such a glaring deficit?

Max magicka. Most Skills in the game work on highest offensive stats of their respective dmg. If a skill does magical dmg, normaly it would scale with iether spell dmg or max magicka, likewise if skill does physical dmg, it scale with weapon dmg or max stamina which ever is highest. New skills work on both specs like streak for example, it deals magicka dmg and it used to scal with max magicka and spell dmg, now it scales with highest offensive stat either be it spell dmg, weapon dmg, max magicka or stamina. This theoriticaly allows for build diversity of classes.

I should not that because mag sorc uses shields to survive, their shields scale with max magicka only rather than both max magicka and spell dmg, so naturally you would see sorcerer have highest mag pools of all classes in general.

By "spell power," I mean the the combined max magicka & spell damage. (i.e.: [Max Mag/1000 * 10.5] + Spell Damage). I know that's a rough estimate, and doesn't apply to all skills, but it gives me a ballpark idea of how 2 sets will compare on the same toon. The Magblade is a Breton & has lower spell damage than the Altmer Sorc, but it has significantly higher max magicka, so the effective "spellpower" is quite a bit higher on the Magblade.

TL;DR: The Magblade is in better gear than the Sorc — if I put the Sorc in the same gear as the Magblade, Haunting Curse, Crystal Shards, and Mage's Wrath are all almost as powerful as my Magblade's ultimate. The discrepancy is absurd.

the1andonlyskwex · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Like I said, try playing a Magblade the same way you play your DK & see for yourself. It's not as easy as you seem to think.

Last night I took my magblade into BGs in his PvE healer gear (not his healer skills though). He did much better than my magdk does in similar gear because he actually has usable ranged options and an execute. Based on that experience, if I actually used a PvP build, I'm pretty sure he would be fine (not great, especially compared to my stamden or my magsorc, but fine).

Iskiab · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Like I said, try playing a Magblade the same way you play your DK & see for yourself. It's not as easy as you seem to think.

Last night I took my magblade into BGs in his PvE healer gear (not his healer skills though). He did much better than my magdk does in similar gear because he actually has usable ranged options and an execute. Based on that experience, if I actually used a PvP build, I'm pretty sure he would be fine (not great, especially compared to my stamden or my magsorc, but fine).

Yea, the strongest BG magblade spec has been a healer for a long time.

Issue is all the burst damage increases recently and nerfs to defense. You’ll do okay but get wrecked against better opponents and teams depending on your group. You’re reliant on cross healing from team mates to stay alive.

I used to solo queue but stopped. Spec doesn’t work well outside a premade.

Langeston · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Like I said, try playing a Magblade the same way you play your DK & see for yourself. It's not as easy as you seem to think.

Last night I took my magblade into BGs in his PvE healer gear (not his healer skills though). He did much better than my magdk does in similar gear because he actually has usable ranged options and an execute. Based on that experience, if I actually used a PvP build, I'm pretty sure he would be fine (not great, especially compared to my stamden or my magsorc, but fine).

That's my whole point though. You just said that your magblade would be "not great ... but fine" "especially compared to my stamden or my magsorc." The last part is key — why do we have classes that are so wildly out of balance relative to others? I do better than most on my Magblade in BGs, but there are certain classes that I will literally never be able to kill if they are being played by a semi-competent player — yet they can absolutely curb stomp me. I'd be fine with other classes being tanky AF if they also had to make compromises in the amount of damage they do, but that doesn't seem to be the case for any class but nightblades. I'm also perfectly fine with being the squishiest dude on the field, but I should at least get a boost in damage to make up for it. As is stands, my magsorc absolutely takes a dump on my magblade. I don't want the magblade to be OP, just comparable.

universal_wrath · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

And this is actually why ZOS should NOT bother to try to balance anything for PvP.

Trying to balance for PvP in ESO is trying to balance against a moving target of builds and team combinations and different situations (BG versus open world versus duels versus whatever). It's more than futile it's idiocy.
Trying to balance for PvE is totally different -- ZOS has full control over the static balance target of NPCs, and most of the time of the encounter arena as well. That means one side of the equation is basically 100% knowable.
Other games that balance for PvP have it easier because they reduce the number of variables -- they focus on matches where there are a limited number of toons per team; they have tight classes without a huge range of choices of what the class can do; etcetera. ESO has far too many variables even from trying to put one class together.

Just let the PvP community come up with their own counters, or play what they think is the OP meta. If everyone's playing the same thing, it's balanced. Complaining about the enemy's build? The enemy's team makeup? Play the same thing.
BUT for people who don't want to do that (remember, ZOS wants to do power fantasy and play your own way), implement proper LEAGUES to sort people.

LEAGUES applies not just to BG but Cyrodiil and IC. Unless you have leagues for open world, there will be too many zergs (you won't eliminate them entirely) and consequently whining about zergs.
Zergs are when people don't want to play a cookie cutter build and want to play their way. So they bunch up and mow down the opposition -- because it works. No different than camping IC sewer doors get people as they transition in -- it works.

I'm not even asking for them to to balance for PvP, I'd just like my Magblade's skills to be within spitting distance of my Magsorc's. The Magsorc has ~600 less spell power, but the skills do 2k+ more damage — and they are absurdly easy to use compared to the blade. This isn't just PVP, the Sorc just does more damage all around, with way less spell power. Why would ZOS allow such a glaring deficit?

Max magicka. Most Skills in the game work on highest offensive stats of their respective dmg. If a skill does magical dmg, normaly it would scale with iether spell dmg or max magicka, likewise if skill does physical dmg, it scale with weapon dmg or max stamina which ever is highest. New skills work on both specs like streak for example, it deals magicka dmg and it used to scal with max magicka and spell dmg, now it scales with highest offensive stat either be it spell dmg, weapon dmg, max magicka or stamina. This theoriticaly allows for build diversity of classes.

I should not that because mag sorc uses shields to survive, their shields scale with max magicka only rather than both max magicka and spell dmg, so naturally you would see sorcerer have highest mag pools of all classes in general.

By "spell power," I mean the the combined max magicka & spell damage. (i.e.: [Max Mag/100 * 10.5] + Spell Damage). I know that's a rough estimate, and doesn't apply to all skills, but it gives me a ballpark idea of how 2 sets will compare on the same toon. The Magblade is a Breton & has lower spell damage than the Altmer Sorc, but it has significantly higher max magicka, so the effective "spellpower" is quite a bit higher on the Magblade.

TL;DR: The Magblade is in better gear than the Sorc — if I put the Sorc in the same gear as the Magblade, Haunting Curse, Crystal Shards, and Mage's Wrath are all almost as powerful as my Magblade's ultimate. The discrepancy is absurd.

Maybe it is just the fact that magicka sorcerer does not use same type of skills as nightblade. They have crytal fragoments but it is a proc, the original skill is a cast time. They have curse as burst skill, but it activate after 4 secs; see how strong sub assault because it requires 3 secs to use or grim focus that requite 5 LA. Mages wrath is planted pre excute and it is the weakest excute in the game (in terms or damage), it is just the fact the it clicks once you get to excution phase along with the other skills, just more dmg.

I think if nightblade has a cast time skill it would probably be as strong as crytal fragments(proc excluded). Grom focus is way stronger than curse, dodgeable.

I would imagine if crystal fragment is instant(proc excluded) it does would be somewhere around swallow soul and other spammable. Curse is as I mentioned is a burst skill and to be honest, it is weaker than the other skills, but I guess that it is does not require any condition to use. Sub assault require LoS, grom focus require 5 LA...etc. I'm guess that the harder the requirement, the stronger the skill.

Instant cast abilities tend to be weaker than cast time, because risk and reward. You can see stam specs and compare snipe/dizzy to any other stam spammable and you will see same results.

the1andonlyskwex · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, the strongest BG magblade spec has been a healer for a long time.

Issue is all the burst damage increases recently and nerfs to defense. You’ll do okay but get wrecked against better opponents and teams depending on your group. You’re reliant on cross healing from team mates to stay alive.

I used to solo queue but stopped. Spec doesn’t work well outside a premade.

Just to be clear, I wasn't playing a healer spec in terms of skills, I was just wearing healer gear (Sanctuary and Worm Cult). I think I even did less than 10k healing in one match (where my score at the end was a little better than middle of the pack, which is pretty typical for me, I won't claim to be great).

Also, I was solo queued, and everyone gets wrecked by premades, regardless of class.

the1andonlyskwex · October 2019

@Langeston

My whole argument has been that I think you're blowing the balance issues way out of proportion. Sure, not all classes are equally good, but they're not nearly as unbalanced as you seem to think. Sure, NBs aren't top tier right now, but that certainly doesn't make them useless (or even bottom tier). I think a lot of the whining we see in these forums (especially from Nightblades and Magsorcs) is because they're not as dominant as they used to be, not because they're actually bad.

kalunte · October 2019

all those post to read "'cloak is op" and "nb is worst class" again and again.

reading this all just make me feel like all nightblade are bad players that should be god regarding cloak.

or maybe cloak isnt this good.. or maybe, nightblade lack soooooooooooooooo much of group utility that they wont ever be valuable mates.

or maybe ppl simply need to hate something to be kind to the most..

what was this thread about again?

Iskiab · October 2019

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

@Langeston

My whole argument has been that I think you're blowing the balance issues way out of proportion. Sure, not all classes are equally good, but they're not nearly as unbalanced as you seem to think. Sure, NBs aren't top tier right now, but that certainly doesn't make them useless (or even bottom tier). I think a lot of the whining we see in these forums (especially from Nightblades and Magsorcs) is because they're not as dominant as they used to be, not because they're actually bad.

No way. This is so not true except for sorcs yea I agree, they’re still a good class.

NB has serious issues. The class is going downhill not up, post patch things are going to get a lot worse. I think it’s time for magblades to make a choice; quit, reroll or stick it out but stick to being solo or bigger groups. Stay away from BGs, people already complain when NBs are on their team.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, the strongest BG magblade spec has been a healer for a long time.

Issue is all the burst damage increases recently and nerfs to defense. You’ll do okay but get wrecked against better opponents and teams depending on your group. You’re reliant on cross healing from team mates to stay alive.

I used to solo queue but stopped. Spec doesn’t work well outside a premade.

Just to be clear, I wasn't playing a healer spec in terms of skills, I was just wearing healer gear (Sanctuary and Worm Cult). I think I even did less than 10k healing in one match (where my score at the end was a little better than middle of the pack, which is pretty typical for me, I won't claim to be great).

Also, I was solo queued, and everyone gets wrecked by premades, regardless of class.

This isn’t true. In lower MMR any class destroys people, then you hit the middle tiers which can be rough because you can still get new players on your team and fight premades. Stick it out for higher MMR and there are lots of good solo queuers... at least on PC-NA. It is tougher these days solo queueing because burst is up making coordination more important, but people assist and there aren’t many solo heros trying to do dumb things.

I play a healer, so this might change things a bit but this is my experience.

kalunte · October 2019

oh yeah, some relativly smoky call for balance. if only OP was more precise about his toughts..

Fur_like_snow · October 2019

Add vote kick to BGs. That way when you see a NB in group you just boot him straight back to picking pockets in Riften.

Bashev · October 2019

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Add vote kick to BGs. That way when you see a NB in group you just boot him straight back to picking pockets in Riften.

And then u play half the game with 3 ppl.

Langeston · October 2019

kalunte wrote: »

oh yeah, some relativly smoky call for balance. if only OP was more precise about his toughts..

I was simply venting my frustration while at the same time trying to avoid making a "nerf thread." I was in a BG yesterday where there was eight templars — obviously not every BG is that bad, but it certainly seems like it sometimes. Having completely OP classes ruins the game on a number of levels, even if you play one of those OP classes. Gets kinda boring seeing the same death recap over & over too.

Bashev · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

oh yeah, some relativly smoky call for balance. if only OP was more precise about his toughts..

I was simply venting my frustration while at the same time trying to avoid making a "nerf thread." I was in a BG yesterday where there was eight templars — obviously not every BG is that bad, but it certainly seems like it sometimes. Having completely OP classes ruins the game on a number of levels, even if you play one of those OP classes. Gets kinda boring seeing the same death recap over & over too.

This patch is templars, I did a topic how OP they are but many ppl dont agree. The issue is that in ESO everyone has every class and ppl just change to the class that is OP.

Next patch this will be mSorc.

ChunkyCat · October 2019

Icky wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

i lul @ stamblades

Heck yeah brah, I just que to shred some a$$. Cowabunga dude!

Vahrokh · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

Langeston · October 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

Vahrokh · October 2019

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

I literally quoted a guy introducing the usual: "I have a sorc (usually it's not true) and it's so easy it plays by itself" stuff. In the next replies he keeps adding to it. Do the math.

*How to detect people faking sorc: how is someone who is sane supposed to spend months learning, gearing and fine tuning his main or 2nd main PvP character and then openly put it on a stake for being burned and nerfed into the ground. And always, ALWAYS have a NB to prop up. Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

Langeston · October 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

I literally quoted a guy introducing the usual: "I have a sorc (usually it's not true) and it's so easy it plays by itself" stuff. In the next replies he keeps adding to it. Do the math.

*How to detect people faking sorc: how is someone who is sane supposed to spend months learning, gearing and fine tuning his main or 2nd main PvP character and then openly put it on a stake for being burned and nerfed into the ground. And always, ALWAYS have a NB to prop up. Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

You were saying?

My first toon was a Magsorc. Then I leveled a Stamblade, & I liked that class so much that I decided to try a Magblade. Then I tried making a hybrid Nightblade with a Dunmer that didn't really work how I hoped it would. I rarely play the sorc anymore because it's so boring.

I like that Nightblades are the most difficult class in the game, because I actually feel a sense of accomplishment when I get kills against classes that are clearly stronger than mine. But at this point, the class is so butchered that it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. I know some NBs are still killing it, but that's the exception to the rule.

FYI: The OP and the guy you quoted are the same person.

[edit] The only reason I didn't talk about the other classes is because I haven't played them, only against them. I think Templars & DKs are at the same level as Sorcs, but I wouldn't know for sure until I actually leveled & played them both. All I know is, my Sorc puts out damage that my Stam/Mag blades can only dream of, and the skills are infinitely easier to use.

[edit 2]

Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

Again, this is not a "sorc nerf" thread.