When you can tell who is going to win a BG just by looking the classes on each team...

Royalthought

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s no point in getting into the utility between the classes because NBs have very little group utility.

They may not have what you think of as group utility, but NBs actually have quite a bit.

They can debuff enemies with minor maim, minor vulnerability, and minor magickasteal using class skills, unlike most other classes.

NBs are also the only class that can buff their groupmates with major expedition, minor savagery, and invisibility.

They also have Mark Target, which is the only way to apply both major fracture and major breach in a single cast from outside of melee range (or without running S&B).

When you say, “group” utility and list single target skills, it comes across as very..... Xv1ish. BG’s is about group vs group.

The only “group” skill you referred to was refreshing path. If that’s the highlight of their group utility, you’ve inadvertently countered your own point and further validated the OP.

Haquor

Iskiab wrote: »

Agree but no one’s indestructible. You just need a cc like fear that breaks block.

Are you that guy that writes the inspirational tips at the bottom of my death recaps?

Iskiab

Haquor wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Agree but no one’s indestructible. You just need a cc like fear that breaks block.

Are you that guy that writes the inspirational tips at the bottom of my death recaps?

Lol no. For those who have no cc to break block, bash is a good alternative.

the1andonlyskwex

Royalthought wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s no point in getting into the utility between the classes because NBs have very little group utility.

They may not have what you think of as group utility, but NBs actually have quite a bit.

They can debuff enemies with minor maim, minor vulnerability, and minor magickasteal using class skills, unlike most other classes.

NBs are also the only class that can buff their groupmates with major expedition, minor savagery, and invisibility.

They also have Mark Target, which is the only way to apply both major fracture and major breach in a single cast from outside of melee range (or without running S&B).

When you say, “group” utility and list single target skills, it comes across as very..... Xv1ish. BG’s is about group vs group.

The only “group” skill you referred to was refreshing path. If that’s the highlight of their group utility, you’ve inadvertently countered your own point and further validated the OP.

Uh:

1) On PTS, of the 7 things I listed: 2 are AoE debuffs that benefit anyone attacking or being attacked by affected enemies (Lotus Fan and Dark Shade, respectively), 3 are group/area buffs (Path of Darkness, Consuming Darkness, Hemorrhage), 1 is a single target debuff that gives resources to your whole group (Debilitate), and the last is a single target debuff that increases all non-Oblivion damage against that target (Mark Target).

2) If your group isn't focusing down one target at a time, I think that's a bigger problem than your class.

hakan

yeah not every class have to do the same stuff, but they nerfed nbs only thing so much patch after patch.

we need our fracture and berserk back.

the1andonlyskwex

hakan wrote: »

yeah not every class have to do the same stuff, but they nerfed nbs only thing so much patch after patch.

we need our fracture and berserk back.

You might want to look into Reaper's Mark (morph of Mark Target).

Look, I'm not saying NBs are in a great place right now (I've certainly noticed a decline in their BG population), but the problem isn't a lack of available "utility", and going back to them being virtually uncounterable gankers isn't really a solution.

Personally, I think most of the problem is that people used to play NBs for a particular playstyle that they no longer really support (because it was inherently unfun for their opponents), and builds/expectations haven't adapted to the new reality yet.

Langeston

Bashev wrote: »

It is not so much the classes but the builds that players use.

If you go in BG deathmatch with a selfish build and all your teammates have also selfish builds you will have hard time.

Most important part in my builds is: my cross healing should be at least 30% of my damage output. Keeping my teammates alive release the pressure on me.

The weakest class cannot do that unless they are a dedicated healer — in fact most of the time they can't even heal themselves. That's kind of my whole point actually: some classes can have [among] the highest healing while still having the highest damage & most kills — I actually see that relatively frequently. That's not balance.

Langeston

@Iskiab said:

I see what you’re saying, but damage even though it’s so focused on by magblades isn’t the only issue.

Lack of self healing is the biggest. Sustain is another, most magblades roll around the 2400+ regen mark to be effective in pvp. Without burst you need more recovery to setup kills and magblade defense is costly. It’s way more than you need as a templar or sorc.

Even though magblades and magsorcs can both be ranged so are easiest to draw a comparison between I don’t think it’s helpful to get into a NB vs Sorc thing since both classes have downsides. There’s no point in getting into the utility between the classes because NBs have very little group utility.

A way to differentiate magblades from sorcs would be to make magblades ranged and melee hybrids. A way to do it would be to make magblade defense better (self healing) and things like dw daggers giving spell crit, but IDK how you can do that without buffing other magicka classes. Maybe have melee abilities self heal instead of ranged abilities, IDK.

Well it's good to know that I'm not the only one that runs with insane mag regen. I thought I was doing it wrong, lol.

I agree re: healing — but for me, I die mostly because it's impossible to kill certain classes, and those same tanky builds can still put out enough damage to 2 or 3 hit me. The latter is because I have to build as a glass cannon just to do damage, and I understand that. The problem is, there are classes that don't have to make tough decisions like that. They can have their cake & eat it too.

I'd be happy with either a healing buff or a damage buff — I don't need both. But being both the squishiest and the weakest in terms of damage is a frustrating position to be in.

Another pain point is how certain skills (like Grim Focus, for instance) don't even fire half the time, and when they do they miss. I don't even bother slotting the highest damage single target ability the class has, because it usually does nothing when I need it most.

I'm starting to get the impression that this is the way ZOS wants it though, just based on the trajectory of the class. Which is sad, because I don't like my other toons nearly as much as I like my Magblade.

Qbiken

Tbh, most games (especially high mmr) are lost due to your team having poor positioning and failing to pre-kite in order to "3rd-party" one of the other teams.

Team composition is important and has an impact (for example, a full melee team can have a hard time against a full ranged team), but most of that can be compensated by having proper positioning.

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

@Iskiab said:

I see what you’re saying, but damage even though it’s so focused on by magblades isn’t the only issue.

Lack of self healing is the biggest. Sustain is another, most magblades roll around the 2400+ regen mark to be effective in pvp. Without burst you need more recovery to setup kills and magblade defense is costly. It’s way more than you need as a templar or sorc.

Even though magblades and magsorcs can both be ranged so are easiest to draw a comparison between I don’t think it’s helpful to get into a NB vs Sorc thing since both classes have downsides. There’s no point in getting into the utility between the classes because NBs have very little group utility.

A way to differentiate magblades from sorcs would be to make magblades ranged and melee hybrids. A way to do it would be to make magblade defense better (self healing) and things like dw daggers giving spell crit, but IDK how you can do that without buffing other magicka classes. Maybe have melee abilities self heal instead of ranged abilities, IDK.

Well it's good to know that I'm not the only one that runs with insane mag regen. I thought I was doing it wrong, lol.

I agree re: healing — but for me, I die mostly because it's impossible to kill certain classes, and those same tanky builds can still put out enough damage to 2 or 3 hit me. The latter is because I have to build as a glass cannon just to do damage, and I understand that. The problem is, there are classes that don't have to make tough decisions like that. They can have their cake & eat it too.

I'd be happy with either a healing buff or a damage buff — I don't need both. But being both the squishiest and the weakest in terms of damage is a frustrating position to be in.

Another pain point is how certain skills (like Grim Focus, for instance) don't even fire half the time, and when they do they miss. I don't even bother slotting the highest damage single target ability the class has, because it usually does nothing when I need it most.

I'm starting to get the impression that this is the way ZOS wants it though, just based on the trajectory of the class. Which is sad, because I don't like my other toons nearly as much as I like my Magblade.

I like my magblade just because of the sneaky rogue theme mixed with a healer and I’m used to it, but some times you need to let go. I’m way too much of a min-maxer to hold onto an underperforming class.

Yours is one of the specs I’ve found is the best. Elemental weapon, force pulse and reach. Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo in a cloak blade.

Qbiken wrote: »

Tbh, most games (especially high mmr) are lost due to your team having poor positioning and failing to pre-kite in order to "3rd-party" one of the other teams.

Team composition is important and has an impact (for example, a full melee team can have a hard time against a full ranged team), but most of that can be compensated by having proper positioning.

I see what you’re saying but it depends on your group strategy. If everyone buys into an aggressive strategy and you have a healer you can overwhelm one team in time to fight another. It’s one of the main reasons people hate NBs and low sustain ranged builds because they don’t bring the tools to overwhelm in a stam group.

The best players and specs adapt to their group and opponents, or are strong enough to dictate how a game is going to be played. That’s what DKs essentially do, that’s why I love having them on my team even if all their kills get stolen and end the match with low stats.

Royalthought

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s no point in getting into the utility between the classes because NBs have very little group utility.

They may not have what you think of as group utility, but NBs actually have quite a bit.

They can debuff enemies with minor maim, minor vulnerability, and minor magickasteal using class skills, unlike most other classes.

NBs are also the only class that can buff their groupmates with major expedition, minor savagery, and invisibility.

They also have Mark Target, which is the only way to apply both major fracture and major breach in a single cast from outside of melee range (or without running S&B).

When you say, “group” utility and list single target skills, it comes across as very..... Xv1ish. BG’s is about group vs group.

The only “group” skill you referred to was refreshing path. If that’s the highlight of their group utility, you’ve inadvertently countered your own point and further validated the OP.

Uh:

1) On PTS, of the 7 things I listed: 2 are AoE debuffs that benefit anyone attacking or being attacked by affected enemies (Lotus Fan and Dark Shade, respectively), 3 are group/area buffs (Path of Darkness, Consuming Darkness, Hemorrhage), 1 is a single target debuff that gives resources to your whole group (Debilitate), and the last is a single target debuff that increases all non-Oblivion damage against that target (Mark Target).

2) If your group isn't focusing down one target at a time, I think that's a bigger problem than your class.

1. I said listing single target skills is very Xv1 ish. You listed them again. There’s no confusion on which are single target and which aren’t. Of the AOE skills you listed, path of darkness I said was the highlight of the “group utility.” Hence proving the OP right.

2. We know what Xv1 is. And this is an even more Xv1 ish statement. It’s simple, nightblades most effective skills hit 1 target. Other classes hit many. Resulting in other classes being better at group utility.

It’s clear that nb are bottom tier in group play. So instead of going in circles, I’ll ask. Are you saying that nightblades are one of the best classes for group play? Or are you more so just pointing out what they CAN do?

Langeston

@Iskiab wrote:

I like my magblade just because of the sneaky rogue theme mixed with a healer and I’m used to it, but some times you need to let go. I’m way too much of a min-maxer to hold onto an underperforming class.

Yours is one of the specs I’ve found is the best. Elemental weapon, force pulse and reach. Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo in a cloak blade.

The stealth assassin theme is what drew me to the class. I grew up playing games like the Thief series, & whenever given the option (in games such as in Deus Ex, for instance) that's always the route I take.

It's funny you should mention the "Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo," (Clench though now, right?) I started using that recently & it's probably the best opener for the class right now. (I use Swallow Soul instead of Force Pulse though, for the heal & extra magicka.) It's still difficult to finish a lot of builds with though, because once you're out of cloak your burst is often not enough to overcome their heals.

I'm not giving up on the class yet, but I'm getting there. Thing is, I won't just roll a new class — I'll find a new game. I've already leveled a sorc, a templar, and a DK, and those classes just don't hold my interest. I started a warden & wound up deleting it. If the NB remains nonviable, then I'll just have to go elsewhere.

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

@Iskiab wrote:

I like my magblade just because of the sneaky rogue theme mixed with a healer and I’m used to it, but some times you need to let go. I’m way too much of a min-maxer to hold onto an underperforming class.

Yours is one of the specs I’ve found is the best. Elemental weapon, force pulse and reach. Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo in a cloak blade.

The stealth assassin theme is what drew me to the class. I grew up playing games like the Thief series, & whenever given the option (in games such as in Deus Ex, for instance) that's always the route I take.

It's funny you should mention the "Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo," (Clench though now, right?) I started using that recently & it's probably the best opener for the class right now. (I use Swallow Soul instead of Force Pulse though, for the heal & extra magicka.) It's still difficult to finish a lot of builds with though, because once you're out of cloak your burst is often not enough to overcome their heals.

I'm not giving up on the class yet, but I'm getting there. Thing is, I won't just roll a new class — I'll find a new game. I've already leveled a sorc, a templar, and a DK, and those classes just don't hold my interest. I started a warden & wound up deleting it. If the NB remains nonviable, then I'll just have to go elsewhere.

Try force pulse instead. There’s a synergy between elemental weapon applying a status effect and the force pulse cleave damage.

You lose a bit if ultimate gen but I prefer the destro penetration passive.

In a game where I’ve hit people with an 18k dizzy, you won’t miss the healing from swallow soul. Burst is so high the healing doesn’t do anything.

The other spec that works okay is 2h onslaught builds.

Bashev

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It is not so much the classes but the builds that players use.

If you go in BG deathmatch with a selfish build and all your teammates have also selfish builds you will have hard time.

Most important part in my builds is: my cross healing should be at least 30% of my damage output. Keeping my teammates alive release the pressure on me.

The weakest class cannot do that unless they are a dedicated healer — in fact most of the time they can't even heal themselves. That's kind of my whole point actually: some classes can have [among] the highest healing while still having the highest damage & most kills — I actually see that relatively frequently. That's not balance.

Every magicka class can do that. Probably every stamina too, you just need the other morph of vigor.
Then you will tell me: "But if I use the other morph of vigor I will have no burst heal." If anyone go with a group build in BG and not selfish builds you will be fine because you will get cross healing from your teammates. Echoing vigor and bogdan helm will be enough cross healing.

Langeston

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It is not so much the classes but the builds that players use.

If you go in BG deathmatch with a selfish build and all your teammates have also selfish builds you will have hard time.

Most important part in my builds is: my cross healing should be at least 30% of my damage output. Keeping my teammates alive release the pressure on me.

The weakest class cannot do that unless they are a dedicated healer — in fact most of the time they can't even heal themselves. That's kind of my whole point actually: some classes can have [among] the highest healing while still having the highest damage & most kills — I actually see that relatively frequently. That's not balance.

Every magicka class can do that. Probably every stamina too, you just need the other morph of vigor.
Then you will tell me: "But if I use the other morph of vigor I will have no burst heal." If anyone go with a group build in BG and not selfish builds you will be fine because you will get cross healing from your teammates. Echoing vigor and bogdan helm will be enough cross healing.

You don't play a NB do you?

Bashev

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It is not so much the classes but the builds that players use.

If you go in BG deathmatch with a selfish build and all your teammates have also selfish builds you will have hard time.

Most important part in my builds is: my cross healing should be at least 30% of my damage output. Keeping my teammates alive release the pressure on me.

The weakest class cannot do that unless they are a dedicated healer — in fact most of the time they can't even heal themselves. That's kind of my whole point actually: some classes can have [among] the highest healing while still having the highest damage & most kills — I actually see that relatively frequently. That's not balance.

Every magicka class can do that. Probably every stamina too, you just need the other morph of vigor.
Then you will tell me: "But if I use the other morph of vigor I will have no burst heal." If anyone go with a group build in BG and not selfish builds you will be fine because you will get cross healing from your teammates. Echoing vigor and bogdan helm will be enough cross healing.

You don't play a NB do you?

I dont like the class and this the only class that I ve never really played a lot. I have 2 leveled NBs but just dont like it.

Now I see you talk about mNB, just slot blockade (+ shock or frost enchant infused destro), slot Radiating Regeneration + healing orbs and bogdan. One recovery set, one dps set and then take advantage of your ranged execute. Stay with your group, once you reach high MMR it will be easier as ppl stick together. When you are focused roll in your group.

the1andonlyskwex

Royalthought wrote: »

1. I said listing single target skills is very Xv1 ish. You listed them again. There’s no confusion on which are single target and which aren’t. Of the AOE skills you listed, path of darkness I said was the highlight of the “group utility.” Hence proving the OP right.

2. We know what Xv1 is. And this is an even more Xv1 ish statement. It’s simple, nightblades most effective skills hit 1 target. Other classes hit many. Resulting in other classes being better at group utility.

It’s clear that nb are bottom tier in group play. So instead of going in circles, I’ll ask. Are you saying that nightblades are one of the best classes for group play? Or are you more so just pointing out what they CAN do?

1) I listed 7 skills, only 2 of which can in any way be interpreted as single target.

2) Maybe your XvX strategy should include coordinating with your group to focus targets.

2a) Of 12 NB skills that do damage, 6 have at least one morph that does AoE damage.

I'm definitely not saying NBs are top tier. I'm saying they're not nearly as terrible at providing "group utility" as you seem to think. Perhaps you should try adjusting your build to take advantage of the options you already have before coming here and complaining. At least then you'll be able to complain about specific skills/problems instead of just whining that NBs are bad.

Stibbons

1. Dk for tank, big self heals, huge damage and the leap does huge burst.
2. Nightblade: 9/10 stamina, hits like truck, dodgerolls and infinete hides.
3. Mag sorc: Insane shields, mobility, heals (if pet), stamina gain in freakin overpowered so dodgerolls as magic char.
4. Warden: 9/10 stamina, bursty damage, tanks like Dk or better.
5. Stamplar: Cone dps, removes dots sometimes. Mag version can be out dps:sed easily because they cannot shieldstack or heal enough. Sure they can heal with RESTO STAFF.

dominguero96

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

1. I said listing single target skills is very Xv1 ish. You listed them again. There’s no confusion on which are single target and which aren’t. Of the AOE skills you listed, path of darkness I said was the highlight of the “group utility.” Hence proving the OP right.

2. We know what Xv1 is. And this is an even more Xv1 ish statement. It’s simple, nightblades most effective skills hit 1 target. Other classes hit many. Resulting in other classes being better at group utility.

It’s clear that nb are bottom tier in group play. So instead of going in circles, I’ll ask. Are you saying that nightblades are one of the best classes for group play? Or are you more so just pointing out what they CAN do?

1) I listed 7 skills, only 2 of which can in any way be interpreted as single target.

2) Maybe your XvX strategy should include coordinating with your group to focus targets.

2a) Of 12 NB skills that do damage, 6 have at least one morph that does AoE damage.

I'm definitely not saying NBs are top tier. I'm saying they're not nearly as terrible at providing "group utility" as you seem to think. Perhaps you should try adjusting your build to take advantage of the options you already have before coming here and complaining. At least then you'll be able to complain about specific skills/problems instead of just whining that NBs are bad.

mate if you think nbs give group utility you havent played any other class.
The only "good" skill for groups gives major expedition and little heals in a small area. The others suck.
Yeah we have stuns and fear, as all staminas have now. That's all.

pd: if anyone think of the debuff nb puts well, compareit to the necros one.

Langeston

@Bashev

Now I see you talk about mNB, just slot blockade (+ shock or frost enchant infused destro), slot Radiating Regeneration + healing orbs and bogdan. One recovery set, one dps set and then take advantage of your ranged execute. Stay with your group, once you reach high MMR it will be easier as ppl stick together. When you are focused roll in your group.

I appreciate your comment, but you're not taking into consideration that even built like a glass cannon, my Magblade can't do even close to the damage my sorc can do. If I slot Bogdan, I'll lose another 8% damage on top of the deficit I'm already running. I also only have one free slot on my bar for healing, and it has to be Healing Ward (or Rapid Regen.) When someone curb stomps me, my only mode of survival is to pop Healing Ward, cloak real quick & then pop Race Against Time so I can get out of the line of fire for a sec. Compare that to the shields/insta-heals available to every other class at the press of a button.

Am I correct in assuming you play a Sorc? Try the style of play you described in light armor without any shields on your bar (and take streak off too while you're at it.) Also, reduce your damage by ~20% or so. You're basically a sitting duck, right? You might say "but you have cloak & shade!" — and you'd be right. But now I'm not part of the group anymore.

And none of this even takes into consideration the fact that any time any of my 8 opponents on the field pops a detect potion, my cloak is completely useless for a quarter of a minute. (Or any number of the other ways to make cloak useless.) Imagine the outcry if there were potions or abilities that did that to Hardened Ward.

Don't get me wrong, I love the playstyle on my Magblade much more than on my sorc. (I don't even like the sorc, tbh.) But there is just such a huge disparity in between the Magblade & every other class in the game in both offensive & defensive capabilities that it's laughable. I'm not asking for the same level of damage, or even the same level of healing/shields. Cloak is powerful enough tool (if it's working) that I accept the hit on both. But right now my Magsorc has 3 class skills on the front bar that do roughly the same damage as my Magblades ultimate — and the ultimate has a cast time. That's not balance.

dominguero96

Langeston wrote: »

@Iskiab wrote:

I like my magblade just because of the sneaky rogue theme mixed with a healer and I’m used to it, but some times you need to let go. I’m way too much of a min-maxer to hold onto an underperforming class.

Yours is one of the specs I’ve found is the best. Elemental weapon, force pulse and reach. Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo in a cloak blade.

The stealth assassin theme is what drew me to the class. I grew up playing games like the Thief series, & whenever given the option (in games such as in Deus Ex, for instance) that's always the route I take.

It's funny you should mention the "Ele weapon - LA - Reach combo," (Clench though now, right?) I started using that recently & it's probably the best opener for the class right now. (I use Swallow Soul instead of Force Pulse though, for the heal & extra magicka.) It's still difficult to finish a lot of builds with though, because once you're out of cloak your burst is often not enough to overcome their heals.

I'm not giving up on the class yet, but I'm getting there. Thing is, I won't just roll a new class — I'll find a new game. I've already leveled a sorc, a templar, and a DK, and those classes just don't hold my interest. I started a warden & wound up deleting it. If the NB remains nonviable, then I'll just have to go elsewhere.

Don't give up! Courage!!
I've used all the classes but always come back to the magblade. As someone mentioned above, its not for everyone. Against other classes with the same equipment/stats you can only win if you are better, thats the downside but also engaging thing about this amazing class.
Magblade depens on the hands rather than the equip/stats. That's a fact. Just take it with patient and take into consideration that you'll die at some point
My recommendation, use pariah (its the best set for a magblade as we dont have insta heals)

the1andonlyskwex

In the interest of fairness, I replicated the comparison of all class damage skills vs skills with AoE damage morphs for all of the classes. Here are the results, formatted as:

(Number of skills with AoE damage morphs)/(Number of skills capable of doing damage)

Dragonknight: 10/15
Necromancer: 9/9
Nightblade: 6/12
Sorcerer: 12/13
Templar: 10/13
Warden: 7/8

I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn from this. Nightblades certainly have fewer AoE damage options than other classes, but 6 is still probably more than most people are going to have equipped at any given time. Really, the most interesting observations, in my opinion, are that the DLC classes have so few damaging skills (which means they have more dedicated utility skills than other classes), and that Dragonknights have so many damaging skills (although most of that is because their utility and healing skills are specific morphs of skills that otherwise do damage).

Langeston

@dominguero96 wrote:

Don't give up! Courage!!
I've used all the classes but always come back to the magblade. As someone mentioned above, its not for everyone. Against other classes with the same equipment/stats you can only win if you are better, thats the downside but also engaging thing about this amazing class.
Magblade depens on the hands rather than the equip/stats. That's a fact. Just take it with patient and take into consideration that you'll die at some point
My recommendation, use pariah (its the best set for a magblade as we dont have insta heals)

I have tried Pariah a few times, but my damage was so pathetic with it. I'm full-on glass cannon mode now, in all divines. I do well, but it's just such a weak class.

Bashev

Langeston wrote: »

@Bashev

Now I see you talk about mNB, just slot blockade (+ shock or frost enchant infused destro), slot Radiating Regeneration + healing orbs and bogdan. One recovery set, one dps set and then take advantage of your ranged execute. Stay with your group, once you reach high MMR it will be easier as ppl stick together. When you are focused roll in your group.

I appreciate your comment, but you're not taking into consideration that even built like a glass cannon, my Magblade can't do even close to the damage my sorc can do. If I slot Bogdan, I'll lose another 8% damage on top of the deficit I'm already running. I also only have one free slot on my bar for healing, and it has to be Healing Ward (or Rapid Regen.) When someone curb stomps me, my only mode of survival is to pop Healing Ward, cloak real quick & then pop Race Against Time so I can get out of the line of fire for a sec. Compare that to the shields/insta-heals available to every other class at the press of a button.

Am I correct in assuming you play a Sorc? Try the style of play you described in light armor without any shields on your bar (and take streak off too while you're at it.) Also, reduce your damage by ~20% or so. You're basically a sitting duck, right? You might say "but you have cloak & shade!" — and you'd be right. But now I'm not part of the group anymore.

And none of this even takes into consideration the fact that any time any of my 8 opponents on the field pops a detect potion, my cloak is completely useless for a quarter of a minute. (Or any number of the other ways to make cloak useless.) Imagine the outcry if there were potions or abilities that did that to Hardened Ward.

Don't get me wrong, I love the playstyle on my Magblade much more than on my sorc. (I don't even like the sorc, tbh.) But there is just such a huge disparity in between the Magblade & every other class in the game in both offensive & defensive capabilities that it's laughable. I'm not asking for the same level of damage, or even the same level of healing/shields. Cloak is powerful enough tool (if it's working) that I accept the hit on both. But right now my Magsorc has 3 class skills on the front bar that do roughly the same damage as my Magblades ultimate — and the ultimate has a cast time. That's not balance.

I used to play mSorc exactly as you said without streak and some occasional shields but with 28k magicka you can see how strong they were. I used rapid regens before the change, surge and lighering potions for healing + resto ulti. As I said once you get used to play without burst heal it will be easier. I dont solo jump 1 vs 4, I wait for my team and I stay with them. It is better if we die together than die one by one.

If you dont believe me that I played similar build I am pretty sure that many ppl could approve that.

the1andonlyskwex

Langeston wrote: »

I have tried Pariah a few times, but my damage was so pathetic with it. I'm full-on glass cannon mode now, in all divines. I do well, but it's just such a weak class.

Dude, no wonder you're struggling. Everybody must be one-shotting you. Also, with battle spirit, no burst heal in the game is going to help a PvP build like that.

Finedaible

I remember when NB's used to be able to hold their own for a little while before dying. Now they just get deleted from all the AoE spam.

Langeston

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I have tried Pariah a few times, but my damage was so pathetic with it. I'm full-on glass cannon mode now, in all divines. I do well, but it's just such a weak class.

Dude, no wonder you're struggling. Everybody must be one-shotting you. Also, with battle spirit, no burst heal in the game is going to help a PvP build like that.

I don't die much. Usually I have the fewest deaths in BGs, unless we're up against a premade. My issue is lack of burst. Healing/defense is a secondary concern for me.

the1andonlyskwex

Langeston wrote: »

I don't die much. Usually I have the fewest deaths in BGs, unless we're up against a premade. My issue is lack of burst. Healing/defense is a secondary concern for me.

Oh, I see, you're trying to play a build where you can burst people down from 100% to 0% before they can mount any sort of counterattack (and then you cloak and run if it doesn't work). I'm pretty sure ZOS doesn't want that approach to work very well.

Try either focus firing people with your group (an approach which your class has a bunch of utility to support) or building for some survivability/sustain and wearing people down to <50% before attempting your burst.

Langeston

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I don't die much. Usually I have the fewest deaths in BGs, unless we're up against a premade. My issue is lack of burst. Healing/defense is a secondary concern for me.

Oh, I see, you're trying to play a build where you can burst people down from 100% to 0% before they can mount any sort of counterattack (and then you cloak and run if it doesn't work). I'm pretty sure ZOS doesn't want that approach to work very well.

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

the1andonlyskwex

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).