When you can tell who is going to win a BG just by looking the classes on each team...

Bashev

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Not in EU. Maulkin is right. mNB are still one of the best setups for healing BGs.

Qbiken

Bashev wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Not in EU. Maulkin is right. mNB are still one of the best setups for healing BGs.

EU still go full tank mode as usual

Bashev

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Not in EU. Maulkin is right. mNB are still one of the best setups for healing BGs.

EU still go full tank mode as usual

Nah, not full tank. It is full hots mode. I do almost the same damage as I do vs glass cannons just healing per second is a lot.

Udrath

mNB is in a weird place for pvp. Self-healing is negated by DOTs and our heals are HOTs, so I guess we pretty much equalise things back to normal?

The cast time on ultimates makes being in melee for a few seconds a regrettable choice. I usually die before I can press shade due to the increased window time to get caught and clobbered. I feel 2 seconds slower now when an ultimate is involved with weaving.

Merciless resolve falls off randomly. Unrelated but that super loud noise it makes just screams dodge roll 😂

They should change Dark Cloak so it’s an AoE blanket affect around everyone in 8 meters that stills heals based off your max hp if we’re gonna be the HoT boys.


On a side note.... I tried out spinners and way of fire. 1 domihaus 1 shadowrend. I ran elemental weapon > LA > flame clench > force pulse. It’s pretty good in no-cp if they aren’t being healed. It’s nasty using that out of cloak.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Don't ask me what build they are running on their mNB tanky healers, I've never built one. But they are still somehow extremely resilient and survivable. And yes, in this patch.

Thogard

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Dogzey

If I see 2-3 templars or a mix of templars and wardens I know its an uphill battle already

Bashev

Thogard wrote: »

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Magicka builds were always better for BGs because magicka skills are way more group oriented.

But now the difference is really big. The only viable stamina build is stam warden with dizzy, scorch and onslought. But if you have one dedicated healer he/she counters that burst.

Next patch I think it will be even worse for stamina. I am just wondering why I almost never see echoing vigor in BGs but most of the magicka users use radiating regeneration?

I dont have any burst heal, I just use 3 hots. Yes I die when I am focused and caught outnumbered but once I am with the group then my build shines.

Are Stamina players well more selfish than magicka ones?

Maulkin

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Magicka builds were always better for BGs because magicka skills are way more group oriented.

But now the difference is really big. The only viable stamina build is stam warden with dizzy, scorch and onslought. But if you have one dedicated healer he/she counters that burst.

Next patch I think it will be even worse for stamina. I am just wondering why I almost never see echoing vigor in BGs but most of the magicka users use radiating regeneration?

I dont have any burst heal, I just use 3 hots. Yes I die when I am focused and caught outnumbered but once I am with the group then my build shines.

Are Stamina players well more selfish than magicka ones?

I think stamDK and stamPlar are as good if not better than stamWarden honestly. Their general lack of mobility makes them build tanky but with lots of damage thanks to heavy armor itemisation. One has Cauterize and the other has Extended Ritual to help the team.

I think the issue is mostly with stamblades and stamsorcs that are in the high dmg and high mobility bracket which makes them solo builds. They pair badly with the mostly static, aoe dmg + utility builds that Magicka peeps tend to build for. And they don't have any class cross-heals.

As for the reason they don't use Echoing Vigor, I wonder if they are too dependent on Forward Momentum? Thus creating a domino effect where lacking the Rally heal means they need to pick Resolving Vigor as the closest "burst" heal. It's not like stamina builds have the same plethora of options mag builds have with regards to snare removal. It's FM or Shuffle with the latter unattainable by heavy builds. Whereas mag builds have RAT, mistform and other class-based options like Phantasmal Escape, Wings, BoL, Netch etc. None of which lock you into armor/weapon choices or force you to sacrifice an important heal.

Last paragraph is mostly speculation. I'm wondering the same.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Don't ask me what build they are running on their mNB tanky healers, I've never built one. But they are still somehow extremely resilient and survivable. And yes, in this patch.

I know the builds they’re running, Brandon posted a guide.

PC-NA is mostly stamina using resolving vigor, very little if any cross healing. It’s unusual to see more than 0 healing from more than one team mate.

Yea, sorta confirms what I’ve been thinking about Magblade healers. I stopped solo queuing because it was too rough, in a premade we just roflstomped people. My conclusion about this patch from a magblade healer was the tools are there but require cross healing to do well, without cross healing the lack of self healing catches up to them and they’re prone to getting bursted, especially when Healthy Offering desyncs.

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

Moonsorrow

Iskiab wrote: »

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

My crew currently using 2 magplar, 1 msorc & 1 magcro. For reasons... PC EU obviously.

What sucked was that the 2magplar + 2stamplar i mentioned someday somewhere actually worked way too well.. Onslaught based play i mean with 4x PL/PoTL and the whole group Toppling in to Onslaught/Sweep/Jabs into stamplars Executioners (when needed..), boom boom other teams just blow up. 4 Ritual circles, stamplars with the group heal Vigor morph, enough cross-healing all the time to just be on the offensive. Traditional combos had really hard time to try and deal with that. 2x Earthgore (for obvious reason), 1xBogdan and 1x Troll King. I`ll leave the details to that lol. It is dirty, dont do that m`kay.

Bashev

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

My crew currently using 2 magplar, 1 msorc & 1 magcro. For reasons... PC EU obviously.

What sucked was that the 2magplar + 2stamplar i mentioned someday somewhere actually worked way too well.. Onslaught based play i mean with 4x PL/PoTL and the whole group Toppling in to Onslaught/Sweep/Jabs into stamplars Executioners (when needed..), boom boom other teams just blow up. 4 Ritual circles, stamplars with the group heal Vigor morph, enough cross-healing all the time to just be on the offensive. Traditional combos had really hard time to try and deal with that. 2x Earthgore (for obvious reason), 1xBogdan and 1x Troll King. I`ll leave the details to that lol. It is dirty, dont do that m`kay.

I have no idea why will you go with such group in EU PC. I guess 95% of the games were super boring for you. Going full premade most of the time is 4 vs 3 vs 3 for 5 minutes and for these 5 minutes you get so much more points that the other groups cannot catch.

Maulkin

Bashev wrote: »

Going full premade most of the time is 4 vs 3 vs 3 for 5 minutes and for these 5 minutes you get so much more points that the other groups cannot catch.

Words cannot describe how triggering this is. Going into a game not only as randoms vs premade, but also 3v4.

Moonsorrow

Bashev wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

My crew currently using 2 magplar, 1 msorc & 1 magcro. For reasons... PC EU obviously.

What sucked was that the 2magplar + 2stamplar i mentioned someday somewhere actually worked way too well.. Onslaught based play i mean with 4x PL/PoTL and the whole group Toppling in to Onslaught/Sweep/Jabs into stamplars Executioners (when needed..), boom boom other teams just blow up. 4 Ritual circles, stamplars with the group heal Vigor morph, enough cross-healing all the time to just be on the offensive. Traditional combos had really hard time to try and deal with that. 2x Earthgore (for obvious reason), 1xBogdan and 1x Troll King. I`ll leave the details to that lol. It is dirty, dont do that m`kay.

I have no idea why will you go with such group in EU PC. I guess 95% of the games were super boring for you. Going full premade most of the time is 4 vs 3 vs 3 for 5 minutes and for these 5 minutes you get so much more points that the other groups cannot catch.

Well, we hoping always to meet other premades and at certain time like primetime EU it happens since we all are high MMR. But of course there comes matches too with clearly random solo queuers at teams too. Sucks for them, i know.. since often i solo play too and battles against premade or 2 is pretty much letting them fight each others and try take objectives and often can sneak a win.

Best advice imo at primetime when premades: Never play deathmatches then, do flag games.. in those can often take a win by being tactical when some premades are going against each others, or you make them divide between flags. Doable.. but deathmatches then, can be masochistic, i know.

Bashev

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

My crew currently using 2 magplar, 1 msorc & 1 magcro. For reasons... PC EU obviously.

What sucked was that the 2magplar + 2stamplar i mentioned someday somewhere actually worked way too well.. Onslaught based play i mean with 4x PL/PoTL and the whole group Toppling in to Onslaught/Sweep/Jabs into stamplars Executioners (when needed..), boom boom other teams just blow up. 4 Ritual circles, stamplars with the group heal Vigor morph, enough cross-healing all the time to just be on the offensive. Traditional combos had really hard time to try and deal with that. 2x Earthgore (for obvious reason), 1xBogdan and 1x Troll King. I`ll leave the details to that lol. It is dirty, dont do that m`kay.

I have no idea why will you go with such group in EU PC. I guess 95% of the games were super boring for you. Going full premade most of the time is 4 vs 3 vs 3 for 5 minutes and for these 5 minutes you get so much more points that the other groups cannot catch.

Well, we hoping always to meet other premades and at certain time like primetime EU it happens since we all are high MMR. But of course there comes matches too with clearly random solo queuers at teams too. Sucks for them, i know.. since often i solo play too and battles against premade or 2 is pretty much letting them fight each others and try take objectives and often can sneak a win.

Best advice imo at primetime when premades: Never play deathmatches then, do flag games.. in those can often take a win by being tactical when some premades are going against each others, or you make them divide between flags. Doable.. but deathmatches then, can be masochistic, i know.

I play only deathmatchs and I play 90% of the time only primetime. I play vs a lot of trios but the full premades are really rare.
That is why I was wondering why do you go full premade? There are not enough full premades so the game is fun. The best way to play it probably is as duo. Not too easy not to difficult

Vahrokh

Iskiab wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

I literally quoted a guy introducing the usual: "I have a sorc (usually it's not true) and it's so easy it plays by itself" stuff. In the next replies he keeps adding to it. Do the math.


*How to detect people faking sorc: how is someone who is sane supposed to spend months learning, gearing and fine tuning his main or 2nd main PvP character and then openly put it on a stake for being burned and nerfed into the ground. And always, ALWAYS have a NB to prop up. Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

You were saying?
My first toon was a Magsorc. Then I leveled a Stamblade, & I liked that class so much that I decided to try a Magblade. Then I tried making a hybrid Nightblade with a Dunmer that didn't really work how I hoped it would. I rarely play the sorc anymore because it's so boring.

I like that Nightblades are the most difficult class in the game, because I actually feel a sense of accomplishment when I get kills against classes that are clearly stronger than mine. But at this point, the class is so butchered that it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. I know some NBs are still killing it, but that's the exception to the rule.

FYI: The OP and the guy you quoted are the same person.

[edit] The only reason I didn't talk about the other classes is because I haven't played them, only against them. I think Templars & DKs are at the same level as Sorcs, but I wouldn't know for sure until I actually leveled & played them both. All I know is, my Sorc puts out damage that my Stam/Mag blades can only dream of, and the skills are infinitely easier to use.

[edit 2]

Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

Again, this is not a "sorc nerf" thread.

Has 3 NBs, does not play a sorc for [reasons], wants sorcs nerfed.

I have a magblade, which I found to be (at the time) too OP in PvE and stopped playing her. I've never gone to the forums asking to nerf her though.

Edit:
I always think: "there are people who, like me, have endured buffs and nerfs since beta and now their main (NBs included) has got all the achievements, all the best gear, all the care and love". Who am I to demand them to be butchered?
If ESO allowed at least to share / transfer books and achievements, it'd make the task of abandoning a task less of a pain. But it doesn't.

See, this is why people find sorcs so annoying. You can’t discuss anything in the game without a sorc crying about something and then saying people are trying to nerf them.

Then they’ll call everyone else’s abilities too powerful, like cloak threads, or wings, or snipe, or dizzy. Meanwhile they’ll talk like their performance is because they’re an amazing player and no one else has a right to comment.

If you feel like your class is under attack from all the other classes it’s because Sorcs turn things into a Sorc vs everyone confrontation no matter how things start. Most sorcs don’t acknowledge their class is good at anything, play up everyone else’s abilities, and then act like they’re amazing players. When PTS started Templar OP was the forum mantra, with every sorc post everything gets a little bit closer to a nerf sorc one, just because it’s hard not to argue against all the ridiculous things Sorcs say.

Shocker I know but if if Sorc players are always talking up other class’ abilities, never acknowledge their own class’ strengths, and topping it off with their performance as a metric of skill while only playing a sorc it naturally draws attention to the sorc class. Sorcs need to take a page from DK and fly under the radar.

1. Quote me one time when I asked to someone else to be nerfed. You have 5 years worth of posting to find it.
2. Sorcs are an "once awesome" class, that got twisted, turned and botched so that now it is made of a stupid mesh or randomly underpowered, useless or overpowered skills nobody loves any more. That's the worst nerf a class can get.

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

See a dk: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill and big damage.

See a templar: He's going to war with us. Hard to kill, big damage and he might also heal us.

See a nightblade: ........................................................
We're on our own. Lol

Funny as that is, when I see NB on PC-EU I assume Magblade immortal healer pumping 2m heals per BG. So many of them out here, they are a pain in the arse to play against and such a joy to play with.

Is PC-EU behind a patch from PC-NA? This spec on PC-NA went from hero to zero with the protective, pirate smelly nerfs and onslaught. Can’t keep themselves alive and any stamina spec spamming dizzy can take you down.

Don't ask me what build they are running on their mNB tanky healers, I've never built one. But they are still somehow extremely resilient and survivable. And yes, in this patch.

I know the builds they’re running, Brandon posted a guide.

PC-NA is mostly stamina using resolving vigor, very little if any cross healing. It’s unusual to see more than 0 healing from more than one team mate.

Yea, sorta confirms what I’ve been thinking about Magblade healers. I stopped solo queuing because it was too rough, in a premade we just roflstomped people. My conclusion about this patch from a magblade healer was the tools are there but require cross healing to do well, without cross healing the lack of self healing catches up to them and they’re prone to getting bursted, especially when Healthy Offering desyncs.

If PC-EU is mostly mag they might not be using onslaught too. It’s basicly the best damage ultimate on my class, spec, whatever.

What guide are you referring to?

Langeston

Vahrokh wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

I literally quoted a guy introducing the usual: "I have a sorc (usually it's not true) and it's so easy it plays by itself" stuff. In the next replies he keeps adding to it. Do the math.


*How to detect people faking sorc: how is someone who is sane supposed to spend months learning, gearing and fine tuning his main or 2nd main PvP character and then openly put it on a stake for being burned and nerfed into the ground. And always, ALWAYS have a NB to prop up. Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

You were saying?
My first toon was a Magsorc. Then I leveled a Stamblade, & I liked that class so much that I decided to try a Magblade. Then I tried making a hybrid Nightblade with a Dunmer that didn't really work how I hoped it would. I rarely play the sorc anymore because it's so boring.

I like that Nightblades are the most difficult class in the game, because I actually feel a sense of accomplishment when I get kills against classes that are clearly stronger than mine. But at this point, the class is so butchered that it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. I know some NBs are still killing it, but that's the exception to the rule.

FYI: The OP and the guy you quoted are the same person.

[edit] The only reason I didn't talk about the other classes is because I haven't played them, only against them. I think Templars & DKs are at the same level as Sorcs, but I wouldn't know for sure until I actually leveled & played them both. All I know is, my Sorc puts out damage that my Stam/Mag blades can only dream of, and the skills are infinitely easier to use.

[edit 2]

Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

Again, this is not a "sorc nerf" thread.

Has 3 NBs, does not play a sorc for [reasons], wants sorcs nerfed.

I have a magblade, which I found to be (at the time) too OP in PvE and stopped playing her. I've never gone to the forums asking to nerf her though.

Edit:
I always think: "there are people who, like me, have endured buffs and nerfs since beta and now their main (NBs included) has got all the achievements, all the best gear, all the care and love". Who am I to demand them to be butchered?
If ESO allowed at least to share / transfer books and achievements, it'd make the task of abandoning a task less of a pain. But it doesn't.

See, this is why people find sorcs so annoying. You can’t discuss anything in the game without a sorc crying about something and then saying people are trying to nerf them.

Then they’ll call everyone else’s abilities too powerful, like cloak threads, or wings, or snipe, or dizzy. Meanwhile they’ll talk like their performance is because they’re an amazing player and no one else has a right to comment.

If you feel like your class is under attack from all the other classes it’s because Sorcs turn things into a Sorc vs everyone confrontation no matter how things start. Most sorcs don’t acknowledge their class is good at anything, play up everyone else’s abilities, and then act like they’re amazing players. When PTS started Templar OP was the forum mantra, with every sorc post everything gets a little bit closer to a nerf sorc one, just because it’s hard not to argue against all the ridiculous things Sorcs say.

Shocker I know but if if Sorc players are always talking up other class’ abilities, never acknowledge their own class’ strengths, and topping it off with their performance as a metric of skill while only playing a sorc it naturally draws attention to the sorc class. Sorcs need to take a page from DK and fly under the radar.

1. Quote me one time when I asked to someone else to be nerfed. You have 5 years worth of posting to find it.
2. Sorcs are an "once awesome" class, that got twisted, turned and botched so that now it is made of a stupid mesh or randomly underpowered, useless or overpowered skills nobody loves any more. That's the worst nerf a class can get.

LOL @ #2.
Haunting Curse>spammable until Frags procs>Frags>Mages Wrath pretty much whenever it's convenient, timing's not too important... Lather, rinse, repeat.

All of this while double stacking shields & streaking all over the place stunning people & [accidentally] pulling people out of cloak (while stunning them.) Or you have 2 pets which are basically free shields that also attack people at random and/or heal you.

Totally botched & underpowered. Magsorc skills are even more gutted than Magblades! How do you cope???

[edit]

That's the worst nerf a class can get.

LMAO

Vahrokh

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Players that are good/competitive always go for the best class for the meta, while players that play more casually, play whatever class they feel like, which creates a disproportional illusion between classes power, since the majority of good players play meta.

A good example is NB, most NBs in BG don't play with their team, they go solo ganking and don't contribute much. You can definitly build a NB for group play though. You can make Stamblade work similar to StamSorc DPS but more tanky and a bit more options in terms of utility (ult heal / aoe undodgeable ult stun / maim / minor vul ). Magblades should be playing more defensive and together with their team (ball grouping), and using their heal ult when necessary. You don't need to play as a healer per say as magblade - just more defensive.

My Magsorc build isn't even close to meta, but I was looking at the tooltips on it's skills compared to my Magblade's and it's amazing how big the difference is. The Sorc has over 600 less effective spell power, but it vastly outperforms the Magblade, and it has defenses that absolutely put it to shame. (And the Sorc skills are laughably easy compared to the Magblade — it's like the toon is on autopilot.)

This is officially now the 100000000th nerf sorcs thread.

If anything, it's a "buff magblades" thread, but it's not that either. Try rereading the OP again.

I literally quoted a guy introducing the usual: "I have a sorc (usually it's not true) and it's so easy it plays by itself" stuff. In the next replies he keeps adding to it. Do the math.


*How to detect people faking sorc: how is someone who is sane supposed to spend months learning, gearing and fine tuning his main or 2nd main PvP character and then openly put it on a stake for being burned and nerfed into the ground. And always, ALWAYS have a NB to prop up. Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

You were saying?
My first toon was a Magsorc. Then I leveled a Stamblade, & I liked that class so much that I decided to try a Magblade. Then I tried making a hybrid Nightblade with a Dunmer that didn't really work how I hoped it would. I rarely play the sorc anymore because it's so boring.

I like that Nightblades are the most difficult class in the game, because I actually feel a sense of accomplishment when I get kills against classes that are clearly stronger than mine. But at this point, the class is so butchered that it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. I know some NBs are still killing it, but that's the exception to the rule.

FYI: The OP and the guy you quoted are the same person.

[edit] The only reason I didn't talk about the other classes is because I haven't played them, only against them. I think Templars & DKs are at the same level as Sorcs, but I wouldn't know for sure until I actually leveled & played them both. All I know is, my Sorc puts out damage that my Stam/Mag blades can only dream of, and the skills are infinitely easier to use.

[edit 2]

Have yet to see a sorc nerf thread made by a DK or a warden.

Again, this is not a "sorc nerf" thread.

Has 3 NBs, does not play a sorc for [reasons], wants sorcs nerfed.

I have a magblade, which I found to be (at the time) too OP in PvE and stopped playing her. I've never gone to the forums asking to nerf her though.

Edit:
I always think: "there are people who, like me, have endured buffs and nerfs since beta and now their main (NBs included) has got all the achievements, all the best gear, all the care and love". Who am I to demand them to be butchered?
If ESO allowed at least to share / transfer books and achievements, it'd make the task of abandoning a task less of a pain. But it doesn't.

See, this is why people find sorcs so annoying. You can’t discuss anything in the game without a sorc crying about something and then saying people are trying to nerf them.

Then they’ll call everyone else’s abilities too powerful, like cloak threads, or wings, or snipe, or dizzy. Meanwhile they’ll talk like their performance is because they’re an amazing player and no one else has a right to comment.

If you feel like your class is under attack from all the other classes it’s because Sorcs turn things into a Sorc vs everyone confrontation no matter how things start. Most sorcs don’t acknowledge their class is good at anything, play up everyone else’s abilities, and then act like they’re amazing players. When PTS started Templar OP was the forum mantra, with every sorc post everything gets a little bit closer to a nerf sorc one, just because it’s hard not to argue against all the ridiculous things Sorcs say.

Shocker I know but if if Sorc players are always talking up other class’ abilities, never acknowledge their own class’ strengths, and topping it off with their performance as a metric of skill while only playing a sorc it naturally draws attention to the sorc class. Sorcs need to take a page from DK and fly under the radar.

1. Quote me one time when I asked to someone else to be nerfed. You have 5 years worth of posting to find it.
2. Sorcs are an "once awesome" class, that got twisted, turned and botched so that now it is made of a stupid mesh or randomly underpowered, useless or overpowered skills nobody loves any more. That's the worst nerf a class can get.

LOL @ #2.
Haunting Curse>spammable until Frags procs>Frags>Mages Wrath pretty much whenever it's convenient, timing's not too important... Lather, rinse, repeat.

All of this while double stacking shields & streaking all over the place stunning people & [accidentally] pulling people out of cloak (while stunning them.) Or you have 2 pets which are basically free shields that also attack people at random and/or heal you.

Totally botched & underpowered. Magsorc skills are even more gutted than Magblades! How do you cope???

[edit]

That's the worst nerf a class can get.

LMAO

Where did I say my class is underpowered? It's a mess and they keep removing class identity at each patch.
I know that for most PvPers only thing that matters is who is OP and who is not. The others also care that they enjoy the RPG elements and the lore.

sly007

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

Langeston

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

OK, so in not being able to use Shadowy Disguise you lose your 100% chance to crit, decreasing your already subpar burst damage by a considerable amount. Hence me saying:

The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now.

Sure, you can be tanky/have decent heals, but you'll never do enough damage to burst down a [decent] Templar or DK — you have to choose one or the other. But those two classes (and others) don't have to make the same compromises. Even if you decide to go glass cannon, your damage is still going to be among the (if not the) worst of the classes

(Also note that you are attempting to refute my post about Magblades by bringing up your Stamblade.)

Axx_Xa

Is this a Nerf MagSorc or Buff MagBlade thread. I’m confuse.

SidraWillowsky

sly007 wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

The class has NO burst heal. None. Every heal is either a HoT or is ONLY activated when you deal damage, and some of them only heal for a % of the damage the skill does. Stamblades are OK because they have access to Vigor, but on a magblade? If you want a burst heal, you HAVE to run a rest staff.

AzurasDaddy

Maybe ZOS should set bg's to only 1 of each class per team. Wanna be a meta ***? Ok long que for you lol. Wanna run a 4 nb perma cloak team? Gtfo. Wanna run a 4 Templar guard/God team? Too bad. Going against 8 Templars as a DK is just sooo enjoyable...

Nyladreas

Urzigurumash wrote: »

@Langeston

Theoretically the magblade has greater defense / mobility / utility etc. and can employ various tactics and strategies that a magsorc cannot. I think this idea is within the "power fantasy", i.e. we would expect a "pure mage" to have the highest damage output, at the expense of other things which are useful in combat. Perhaps magblades are intended to be a notch below this. Slightly lower raw damage output than a pure mage, but using their blood magic and athletic ability to do things a pure mage cannot.

That's one idea anyhow why simply comparing tooltips from MagSorc to MagBlade can't measure final combat efficacy.

I think the consideration is whether Magblades are worth having on a team in BGs, and whether they feel their "power fantasy" is fulfilled.

It's a great fantasy thing to think about, except it doesn't really do crap in a real fight as the game currently stands. Damage seems to be everything now, regardless of how good your toolkit is, you can be as good as you want at outplaying and outmaneuvering your opponent but if you can't dish out enough damage as a nightblade to get rid of them quickly you're going to die in the end either way.

Or not die at all but never score a kill unless spamming execute on low HP targets, or feeding on people that have already been fighting someone, cause your damage isn't even closely enough due to focusing on defense too much (which btw is still crap lol). It's absolutely no fun, no flavour, no consistency, and provides 0 motivation.

Sure, I run a build now that can reach over ridiculous 13k effective weapon damage in NO CP, and can kill people in a couple hits on my stamblade, though it's complete crap for group play and squishy as a mashed potato, and quite frankly, the only way to even kill certain targets, that I'm not going to name as it has been done over a 1000 times now.

It's a COMPROMISE THAT OTHER CLASSES DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE

Not to mention that your only real line of defense - cloak - is one of the worst things I have ever experienced in an MMO with no viable PvP alternative to it since all you need is a couple dots on you to completely remove any effectiveness of the other morph of it.

Urzigurumash

@Nyladreas

Sure, I was speaking purely hypothetically as to why in my view higher tooltips on a MagSorc vs a MagBlade isn't inherently an issue, but becomes an issue in light of the greater context of MagBlades not having superior mobility, superior defense, superior utility/CC/debuffing, or something, vs a MagSorc. I have no issue with other Stam classes having higher raw damage output and better sustain than mine, in theory I have superior defense and maybe CC/debuffing, so it should balance out.

I'm not sure, would you say StamNB is the best Poison Injector? Hug the perimeter, avoid the fray, cloak or sprint away and strictly spam bow abilities? It might not be most effective thing going in BGs right now, but does another class do it better? I do have successful rounds with these sorts of teammates, but I don't see it being done very frequently at all.

Iskiab

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

@sly007

I’m sorry, but this post reeks of BS and trolling, your numbers don’t add up.

I play a magblade healer specifically designed to boost % healing modifiers with 30k health. I get 1k HPS tooltip from dark cloak, to get 4k would be impossible, even if you found a way to get major mending, and all the vitalities.

Nevasca

Iskiab wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

@sly007

I’m sorry, but this post reeks of BS and trolling, your numbers don’t add up.

I play a magblade healer specifically designed to boost % healing modifiers with 30k health. I get 1k HPS tooltip from dark cloak, to get 4k would be impossible, even if you found a way to get major mending, and all the vitalities.

He meant 4k healing for Dark Cloak and Vigor combined.

Joy_Division

Maulkin wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Magicka builds were always better for BGs because magicka skills are way more group oriented.

But now the difference is really big. The only viable stamina build is stam warden with dizzy, scorch and onslought. But if you have one dedicated healer he/she counters that burst.

Next patch I think it will be even worse for stamina. I am just wondering why I almost never see echoing vigor in BGs but most of the magicka users use radiating regeneration?

I dont have any burst heal, I just use 3 hots. Yes I die when I am focused and caught outnumbered but once I am with the group then my build shines.

Are Stamina players well more selfish than magicka ones?

As for the reason they don't use Echoing Vigor, I wonder if they are too dependent on Forward Momentum? Thus creating a domino effect where lacking the Rally heal means they need to pick Resolving Vigor as the closest "burst" heal. It's not like stamina builds have the same plethora of options mag builds have with regards to snare removal. It's FM or Shuffle with the latter unattainable by heavy builds. Whereas mag builds have RAT, mistform and other class-based options like Phantasmal Escape, Wings, BoL, Netch etc. None of which lock you into armor/weapon choices or force you to sacrifice an important heal.

Last paragraph is mostly speculation. I'm wondering the same.

They're probably "lazy" like me. When I say "lazy," I mean I don't want to change my morphs (and pay thousands of gold) to do so every time I log into Cyrodiil on my own.

Casterial

Warden on a team? Unable to get to warden? Gg.