When you can tell who is going to win a BG just by looking the classes on each team...

Maulkin

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Magicka builds were always better for BGs because magicka skills are way more group oriented.

But now the difference is really big. The only viable stamina build is stam warden with dizzy, scorch and onslought. But if you have one dedicated healer he/she counters that burst.

Next patch I think it will be even worse for stamina. I am just wondering why I almost never see echoing vigor in BGs but most of the magicka users use radiating regeneration?

I dont have any burst heal, I just use 3 hots. Yes I die when I am focused and caught outnumbered but once I am with the group then my build shines.

Are Stamina players well more selfish than magicka ones?

As for the reason they don't use Echoing Vigor, I wonder if they are too dependent on Forward Momentum? Thus creating a domino effect where lacking the Rally heal means they need to pick Resolving Vigor as the closest "burst" heal. It's not like stamina builds have the same plethora of options mag builds have with regards to snare removal. It's FM or Shuffle with the latter unattainable by heavy builds. Whereas mag builds have RAT, mistform and other class-based options like Phantasmal Escape, Wings, BoL, Netch etc. None of which lock you into armor/weapon choices or force you to sacrifice an important heal.

Last paragraph is mostly speculation. I'm wondering the same.

They're probably "lazy" like me. When I say "lazy," I mean I don't want to change my morphs (and pay thousands of gold) to do so every time I log into Cyrodiil on my own.

Maybe. That’s extreme laziness though. It costs a mere 1.5k gold and takes no longer than 1 minute to port to grahtwood and change one skill. It really isn’t a big deal.

Iskiab

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

@sly007

I’m sorry, but this post reeks of BS and trolling, your numbers don’t add up.

I play a magblade healer specifically designed to boost % healing modifiers with 30k health. I get 1k HPS tooltip from dark cloak, to get 4k would be impossible, even if you found a way to get major mending, and all the vitalities.

He meant 4k healing for Dark Cloak and Vigor combined.

Well it’d be barely doable with CPs, 5H and sacrificing a lot of damage. It’d have to be a high health tank build.

Delparis

Best class combo

• Magden heal (with permafrost)
• Stamdk (tanky)
• magsorc (burst)
• stamblade (dots)

you can't lose with configuration

Bashev

Delparis wrote: »

Best class combo

• Magden heal (with permafrost)
• Stamdk (tanky)
• magsorc (burst)
• stamblade (dots)

you can't lose with configuration

That is pretty bad setup. Even pugs could handle that.

Iskiab

Bashev wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Best class combo

• Magden heal (with permafrost)
• Stamdk (tanky)
• magsorc (burst)
• stamblade (dots)

you can't lose with configuration

That is pretty bad setup. Even pugs could handle that.

Agreed. The only class I’d bring in the dream group would be the sorc. Magden healers are great but not required.

2x stamplar, Petsorc and Magplar post patch would probably be a good group, IDK. Maybe a stamwarden instead of stamplar, maybe even a MagDK.

Langeston

Delparis wrote: »

Best class combo

• Magden heal (with permafrost)
• Stamdk (tanky)
• magsorc (burst)
• stamblade (dots)

you can't lose with configuration

Nah. If I'm up against your dream team & a team of 2 DKs/2 Templars (and if both teams are equally competent) I'm focusing on your team. Don't even have to think about it.

sly007

Iskiab wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

@sly007

I’m sorry, but this post reeks of BS and trolling, your numbers don’t add up.

I play a magblade healer specifically designed to boost % healing modifiers

Iskiab wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

No, that's not what I said. If I build for defense, my damage drops ~20% & the only thing I can kill is another Nightblade. Everyone else can just press a button and they go from near death to full health, & then I have to cloak away because they can still do more damage than me — Magblades have to choose between damage & survivability. Doesn't seem like any other class does.

1) Nobody can heal from near death to full health in a single button press in BGs. Between the fact that nobody (except maybe you) runs builds with only 15k health, and the fact that Battle Spirit halves all healing, it's just not possible.
2) They're doing a lot of damage to you because you're not running any crit resistance, not because their build does high DPS otherwise.
3) I can assure you that all classes have to balance DPS against survivability. If anything Nightblades have that balance the easiest because Cloak works no matter how squishy your build is. Most other classes don't have anything even remotely comparable (the only class that comes close is Sorcerer).

1) Well I don't know what to tell you, maybe they pressed the button twice? All I know is that it's near-instantaneous.

2) As I said earlier, I've used (and still have) defensive sets — if anything I died more often, because I didn't have enough resources, and my kill count was way lower. The fact of the matter is, every class can be tankier and do more damage and heal better than any Magblade right now. I'm not asking for NBs to become the new meta, I don't care about that. I just want at least one of the three to be improved, preferably the damage aspect. (Because as I said, I seem to do ok with regards to survivability.)

3) This comment makes me think you've never even played a Nightblade. If you haven't, you should level up a Magblade & play in some decent MMR BGs. Then come back & tell me if you still think they're the "easiest" to balance. If it was so easy, we wouldn't see BGs loaded with Templars & DKs with 15-25+ kills and roughly zero deaths, it would just be a bunch of Nightblades. Yes, I know there are still some NBs that can wreck *** up, but that is the exception not the rule.

I couldn't disagree more. My stamina nb is the tankiest of of my stamina builds. It also has the most healing because of the extra healing from dark cloak. Dark cloak + vigor not crit heals without 20% healing near a keep is about 4k healing per second. If vigor and dark cloak crit, that's about 6.8k heal.

On to of the strong heals, minor protection, minor maim, and merciless 10% when stacked. Just saying that NBs are NOT squishy. That's a myth.

@sly007

I’m sorry, but this post reeks of BS and trolling, your numbers don’t add up.

I play a magblade healer specifically designed to boost % healing modifiers with 30k health. I get 1k HPS tooltip from dark cloak, to get 4k would be impossible, even if you found a way to get major mending, and all the vitalities.

He meant 4k healing for Dark Cloak and Vigor combined.

Well it’d be barely doable with CPs, 5H and sacrificing a lot of damage. It’d have to be a high health tank build.

Its was actually all damage sets build but it was heavy armor. Zero damage lost. Just a slower player style than the average nb.

Koensol

Maulkin wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamina is becoming a bunch of dinosaurs.

Third partying too much easier on Mag this patch/

Magicka builds were always better for BGs because magicka skills are way more group oriented.

But now the difference is really big. The only viable stamina build is stam warden with dizzy, scorch and onslought. But if you have one dedicated healer he/she counters that burst.

Next patch I think it will be even worse for stamina. I am just wondering why I almost never see echoing vigor in BGs but most of the magicka users use radiating regeneration?

I dont have any burst heal, I just use 3 hots. Yes I die when I am focused and caught outnumbered but once I am with the group then my build shines.

Are Stamina players well more selfish than magicka ones?

I think stamDK and stamPlar are as good if not better than stamWarden honestly. Their general lack of mobility makes them build tanky but with lots of damage thanks to heavy armor itemisation. One has Cauterize and the other has Extended Ritual to help the team.

I think the issue is mostly with stamblades and stamsorcs that are in the high dmg and high mobility bracket which makes them solo builds. They pair badly with the mostly static, aoe dmg + utility builds that Magicka peeps tend to build for. And they don't have any class cross-heals.

As for the reason they don't use Echoing Vigor, I wonder if they are too dependent on Forward Momentum? Thus creating a domino effect where lacking the Rally heal means they need to pick Resolving Vigor as the closest "burst" heal. It's not like stamina builds have the same plethora of options mag builds have with regards to snare removal. It's FM or Shuffle with the latter unattainable by heavy builds. Whereas mag builds have RAT, mistform and other class-based options like Phantasmal Escape, Wings, BoL, Netch etc. None of which lock you into armor/weapon choices or force you to sacrifice an important heal.

Last paragraph is mostly speculation. I'm wondering the same.

@Maulkin To be honest I think the reason for people not using echoing vigor is that it is absolute garbage when you are alone for a moment, compared to radiating regeneration which is still decent as a selfheal. Magicka in general has more options for selfhealing, because they have access to more class skills and ofc the resto staff. In addition they have wards (even though they are trash this patch). As stamina your choices are more limited.

In no cp I always used to run heavy armor + FM + TK on my stamplar, because rally used to be garbage in no cp. In medium I didn't find I got enough healing to deal with bleeds and procspamming zerglings. The exception to this was stamdk and maybe stamden. Stamsorc and stamplar selfhealing was pretty nonexistant in no cp.

Now, with the rally buff and increased vigor healing it actually opened up more build variety and options to run medium armor, because selfhealing is a lot more reliable. Changing to echoing vigor feels like reverting back to last patch, even with the rally buff, because dots and damage in general are freaking insane right now. I can't depend on randoms to provide grouphealing so I opt the selfish way. At least I can still provide some offheals with extended ritual and repentence.

EtTuBrutus

It's the player not the class.

Langeston

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

It's the player not the class.

Lol, sure bro. I'm willing to bet you play a Templar, a DK, or a Sorc. If I had to guess just one: Templar.
Let me know if I'm right.

[edit]
Well that didn't take long.

azjuwelz

Langeston wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

It's the player not the class.

Lol, sure bro. I'm willing to bet you play a Templar, a DK, or a Sorc. If I had to guess just one: Templar.
Let me know if I'm right.

[edit]
Well that didn't take long.

LOL!

I want to see him play a Nightblade in bgs next.

A stamblade for extra bonus points.

sabresandiego_ESO

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

Langeston

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

Maulkin

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

Class modifiers on Win %:

Templar: +20%
DragonKnight/Sorcerer: +10%
Warden: 0%
Nightblade: -10%
Necromancer: -20%

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

sabresandiego_ESO

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Class modifiers on Win %:

Templar: +20%
DragonKnight/Sorcerer: +10%
Warden: 0%
Nightblade: -10%
Necromancer: -20%

That’s funny, kinda true in general. There are some serious exceptions though, when good players play those classes.

Langeston

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

Well, I'm coming from a magblade perspective. I know they're in a sh*tty place right now so other classes may not have the same issues. I'm super squishy & despite that I still put out less sustained damage than pretty much every class right now (I leveled a magsorc but don't really play it much, just enough to know that the damage it does is insane compared to my magblade — that's the only other class I have played extensively.)

As far as streak is concerned, I can't tell you how how many times Sorcs have accidentally streaked into me when I'm cloaked, stunning & damaging me — once they realize what has happened they usually curse me, then spam something or streak again to stun, spam/frag me, streak, mages wrath...you know the drill. By about the third stun, (sometimes the second, depending on what I was doing) I'm out or nearly out of stamina & cloak is worthless because they'll just streak again, bringing me back out & stunning yet again.

Personally I think the whole magsorc toolkit is overtuned, (Curse/Frags/Wrath is literally autopilot, and I say that as someone who has actually played the class) but I can at least counter/evade that stuff. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I feel like any skill that can completely drain someone else's stamina just by pressing the same button over & over (and not even really requiring much accuracy) is a bit overtuned.

Your idea re: Fury is a good one. Would be interesting to see the results of that.

Maulkin

Langeston wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

Well, I'm coming from a magblade perspective. I know they're in a sh*tty place right now so other classes may not have the same issues. I'm super squishy & despite that I still put out less sustained damage than pretty much every class right now (I leveled a magsorc but don't really play it much, just enough to know that the damage it does is insane compared to my magblade — that's the only other class I have played extensively.)

As far as streak is concerned, I can't tell you how how many times Sorcs have accidentally streaked into me when I'm cloaked, stunning & damaging me — once they realize what has happened they usually curse me, then spam something or streak again to stun, spam/frag me, streak, mages wrath...you know the drill. By about the third stun, (sometimes the second, depending on what I was doing) I'm out or nearly out of stamina & cloak is worthless because they'll just streak again, bringing me back out & stunning yet again.

Personally I think the whole magsorc toolkit is overtuned, (Curse/Frags/Wrath is literally autopilot, and I say that as someone who has actually played the class) but I can at least counter/evade that stuff. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I feel like any skill that can completely drain someone else's stamina just by pressing the same button over & over (and not even really requiring much accuracy) is a bit overtuned.

Your idea re: Fury is a good one. Would be interesting to see the results of that.

What I got from your original post is that you have either limited experience or a biased viewpoint, hence I prodded to find out more.

Thank you for your response, but all it does is validate my suspicions.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

Damage and burst are not the same thing. In damage Sorcs are below average. DKs, Templars and Wardens are simply better because they have more DoTs and AoEs in their kit. They put a lot more group pressure than a Sorc can ever hope to put out. Sorcs are only above the heavily nerfed NB and Necro, who’s toolkit barely works.

In burst they rank better than dmg but I find any 2H build with Onslaught superior, particularly stamPlars and stamWardens would have PotL and Sub Assault respectively to combo with their ult and 2H execute. Even magplar that combines Toppling Charge with Crescent and Purifying Light explosion has more unpredictable burst.

MagSorc burst is good, but very highly telegraphed. It involves not just one, but 2 highly visible effects on the target, Curse and Meteor, both with a delay. You can’t imagine the amount of times that combo is either easily blocked or Mistformed through and nullified.

I’m not saying anything controversial here. If you believe Sorc to have the best damage or burst I can only recommend you to play more classes. As your opinion can clearly not be the result of significant playing experience with diverse classes.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

Damage and burst are not the same thing. In damage Sorcs are below average. DKs, Templars and Wardens are simply better because they have more DoTs and AoEs in their kit. They put a lot more group pressure than a Sorc can ever hope to put out. Sorcs are only above the heavily nerfed NB and Necro, who’s toolkit barely works.

In burst they rank better than dmg but I find any 2H build with Onslaught superior, particularly stamPlars and stamWardens would have PotL and Sub Assault respectively to combo with their ult and 2H execute. Even magplar that combines Toppling Charge with Crescent and Purifying Light explosion has more unpredictable burst.

MagSorc burst is good, but very highly telegraphed. It involves not just one, but 2 highly visible effects on the target, Curse and Meteor, both with a delay. You can’t imagine the amount of times that combo is either easily blocked or Mistformed through and nullified.

I’m not saying anything controversial here. If you believe Sorc to have the best damage or burst I can only recommend you to play more classes. As your opinion can clearly not be the result of significant playing experience with diverse classes.

I agree with what you’re saying. Only difference is Sorcs don’t need too many ultimate points for their burst. Coming from a magblade the burst is far superior on a sorc plus Sorcs have the means to kite an onslaught buff.

Stamwarden burst is great too but it is far more difficult to land.

Langeston

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

Well, I'm coming from a magblade perspective. I know they're in a sh*tty place right now so other classes may not have the same issues. I'm super squishy & despite that I still put out less sustained damage than pretty much every class right now (I leveled a magsorc but don't really play it much, just enough to know that the damage it does is insane compared to my magblade — that's the only other class I have played extensively.)

As far as streak is concerned, I can't tell you how how many times Sorcs have accidentally streaked into me when I'm cloaked, stunning & damaging me — once they realize what has happened they usually curse me, then spam something or streak again to stun, spam/frag me, streak, mages wrath...you know the drill. By about the third stun, (sometimes the second, depending on what I was doing) I'm out or nearly out of stamina & cloak is worthless because they'll just streak again, bringing me back out & stunning yet again.

Personally I think the whole magsorc toolkit is overtuned, (Curse/Frags/Wrath is literally autopilot, and I say that as someone who has actually played the class) but I can at least counter/evade that stuff. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I feel like any skill that can completely drain someone else's stamina just by pressing the same button over & over (and not even really requiring much accuracy) is a bit overtuned.

Your idea re: Fury is a good one. Would be interesting to see the results of that.

What I got from your original post is that you have either limited experience or a biased viewpoint, hence I prodded to find out more.

Thank you for your response, but all it does is validate my suspicions.

Huh? I told you I've played the class & have a fully leveled sorc. (810 as of today, coincidentally.) I've been playing for 7 months — obviously not as long as many (most?) but long enough to develop an opinion. I also gave you a pretty detailed explanation of my perception of the skill from the point of view of the other class I play.

If you felt I was wrong you could have pointed out where — instead you made zero attempt to address anything I said & your argument thus far can be fairly accurately summarized as:

"Nuh-uh.
Lol, biased noob."

How insightful.🙄

Based on your post history I'd venture to say that while you do play other classes, your main is a Sorc — would that be a correct assumption? I also see your magblade wears heavy Pariah & you don't (or rarely) use cloak. So your [non]argument strikes me as a bit hypocritical.

Here's a thought: if you have a different opinion, how about you articulate it rather than [condescendingly] dismissing mine? That's what I joined this forum for in the first place.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

Damage and burst are not the same thing. In damage Sorcs are below average. DKs, Templars and Wardens are simply better because they have more DoTs and AoEs in their kit. They put a lot more group pressure than a Sorc can ever hope to put out. Sorcs are only above the heavily nerfed NB and Necro, who’s toolkit barely works.

In burst they rank better than dmg but I find any 2H build with Onslaught superior, particularly stamPlars and stamWardens would have PotL and Sub Assault respectively to combo with their ult and 2H execute. Even magplar that combines Toppling Charge with Crescent and Purifying Light explosion has more unpredictable burst.

MagSorc burst is good, but very highly telegraphed. It involves not just one, but 2 highly visible effects on the target, Curse and Meteor, both with a delay. You can’t imagine the amount of times that combo is either easily blocked or Mistformed through and nullified.

I’m not saying anything controversial here. If you believe Sorc to have the best damage or burst I can only recommend you to play more classes. As your opinion can clearly not be the result of significant playing experience with diverse classes.

I agree with what you’re saying. Only difference is Sorcs don’t need too many ultimate points for their burst. Coming from a magblade the burst is far superior on a sorc plus Sorcs have the means to kite an onslaught buff.

Stamwarden burst is great too but it is far more difficult to land.

Look, if you want your points to be taken seriously you have to debate from a point of both knowledge and integrity. You're failing so far on one of the two at least. I'm talking about the part of your statement I highlighted.

Sure, Sorc has Power Stone that reduces the cost. But Necro has Necrotic Potency and Corpse Consumption. NB has Catalyst, Transfer and magblades can also have Soul Harvest. DK has Mountain's Blessing. Templar has both Prism and Restoring Spirit, Warden has Major Heroism on Shimmering, Savage Beast and MagWardens can have Natures Grasp. Every class has a way of either reducing ult costs or upping their ult generation and in the Templars' case they have both.

However with the exceptions of MagNecro (Meteor or Colossus) or MagWarden (Meteor or Permafrost) nobody else relies on offensive ults of 200 ult points (base cost) or above like MagSorc does. And both Warden and Necro reach their ults faster than Sorc. So the fact is that the Sorc ult-centric burst comes around a less often than it does on any other class. If you play all classes/combos and watch combat metrics you'll see MagSorc drops less offensive ults over 15 mins than anyone else. Contrary to the point you're alluding to in your bolded statement.

MagSorc burst is indeed currently better than NB. That is because of the delays that they added to instant ults and spectral bow that make the NB burst more easily avoidable, on top of the removal of stun from Incap. A terrible change in my opinion. Before they had nerfed those, I was playing magblade in BGs with Incap morph and Assassin's Will and the combo was as good burst as MagSorcs but far more frequent and more reliable since Sorc had no unblockable Streak stun back then. Tables have turned but we can hope for NB buffs.

Stamwarden burst is not more difficult to land than Sorc. You can hold your Onslaught until your Dizzy stun lands, making the Onslaught extremely hard to void, to not say anything of the pre-armed Sub Assault. Sorc has to first throw his Meteor ult and then hope they can land a stun. In the meantime the target might use that 1" to LOS and avoid the stun, pop an Immovable pot, purge the Curse (Templars) or simply throw on shields and whatever defensive measure they have. Thus the burst is harder to land and more likely to be mitigated.

I'm pretty sure you are confusing the MagSorc ability to benefit (through Fury) from other peoples' damage and burst, with their ability to generate their own burst. Play MagSorc without Fury and you will find the burst worse than most classes.

Maulkin

Langeston wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

Well, I'm coming from a magblade perspective. I know they're in a sh*tty place right now so other classes may not have the same issues. I'm super squishy & despite that I still put out less sustained damage than pretty much every class right now (I leveled a magsorc but don't really play it much, just enough to know that the damage it does is insane compared to my magblade — that's the only other class I have played extensively.)

As far as streak is concerned, I can't tell you how how many times Sorcs have accidentally streaked into me when I'm cloaked, stunning & damaging me — once they realize what has happened they usually curse me, then spam something or streak again to stun, spam/frag me, streak, mages wrath...you know the drill. By about the third stun, (sometimes the second, depending on what I was doing) I'm out or nearly out of stamina & cloak is worthless because they'll just streak again, bringing me back out & stunning yet again.

Personally I think the whole magsorc toolkit is overtuned, (Curse/Frags/Wrath is literally autopilot, and I say that as someone who has actually played the class) but I can at least counter/evade that stuff. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I feel like any skill that can completely drain someone else's stamina just by pressing the same button over & over (and not even really requiring much accuracy) is a bit overtuned.

Your idea re: Fury is a good one. Would be interesting to see the results of that.

What I got from your original post is that you have either limited experience or a biased viewpoint, hence I prodded to find out more.

Thank you for your response, but all it does is validate my suspicions.

Huh? I told you I've played the class & have a fully leveled sorc. (810 as of today, coincidentally.) I've been playing for 7 months — obviously not as long as many (most?) but long enough to develop an opinion. I also gave you a pretty detailed explanation of my perception of the skill from the point of view of the other class I play.

If you felt I was wrong you could have pointed out where — instead you made zero attempt to address anything I said & your argument thus far can be fairly accurately summarized as:

"Nuh-uh.
Lol, biased noob."

How insightful.🙄

Based on your post history I'd venture to say that while you do play other classes, your main is a Sorc — would that be a correct assumption? I also see your magblade wears heavy Pariah & you don't (or rarely) use cloak. So your [non]argument strikes me as a bit hypocritical.

Here's a thought: if you have a different opinion, how about you articulate it rather than [condescendingly] dismissing mine? That's what I joined this forum for in the first place.

I have all classes/combos and +1300 CP. Played since beta, April 2014. Almost exclusively PVP. MagSorc is my first and thus longest played char by extension. Though NB and DK are not too far off. I played Warden almost exclusively when it launched. I have played Necro almost exclusively since it launched too. Templar is the class I least gravitate to, though I have both and have played them a lot. And on a stamina-magicka divide, I tend to play my magicka classes far more than my stamina ones. Exception perhaps being my Orc stamSorc that gets plenty of love. And yes, I do use Shadowy Disguise on my Pariah based Magblade.

Now that's out of the way, let's move to your post. You mentioned getting accidentally stunned by streak, which is a non-argument. You mentioned running out of stam after 2 or 3 stuns which tells me bad build or low experience (or perhaps both)
since even on my mag chars I can take at least 5 stuns on CD without problems and that's on noCP BGs. On CP or with my stam chars I can CC break for pretty much ever. You mentioned the whole Sorc toolkit being overtuned, which even without my input you should know that cannot be in touch with reality, or else the class would be far outperforming its rivals and it simply isn't it on any current metric or statistic.

So there really isn't a coherent point for me to debate against. And I'm sorry if it comes across a snobbish view, but it is what it is. MagSorc is indeed a very strong class and has been hovering very near the top of class balance for a good 4 years. Certainly more than most classes who have taken more dives down the list than MagSorc ever has. It even had one patch (CWC if I recall) when it was "broken" good, or overtuned. Because ZOS decided, against the advice of even Sorc players, to make Rune Cage a 28m, unblockable, undodgeable, instant stun. But simply looking at the balance of things now it's just not overtuned. It clearly has one skill that performs too well in a BG deathmatch context and that's really it.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

Damage and burst are not the same thing. In damage Sorcs are below average. DKs, Templars and Wardens are simply better because they have more DoTs and AoEs in their kit. They put a lot more group pressure than a Sorc can ever hope to put out. Sorcs are only above the heavily nerfed NB and Necro, who’s toolkit barely works.

In burst they rank better than dmg but I find any 2H build with Onslaught superior, particularly stamPlars and stamWardens would have PotL and Sub Assault respectively to combo with their ult and 2H execute. Even magplar that combines Toppling Charge with Crescent and Purifying Light explosion has more unpredictable burst.

MagSorc burst is good, but very highly telegraphed. It involves not just one, but 2 highly visible effects on the target, Curse and Meteor, both with a delay. You can’t imagine the amount of times that combo is either easily blocked or Mistformed through and nullified.

I’m not saying anything controversial here. If you believe Sorc to have the best damage or burst I can only recommend you to play more classes. As your opinion can clearly not be the result of significant playing experience with diverse classes.

I agree with what you’re saying. Only difference is Sorcs don’t need too many ultimate points for their burst. Coming from a magblade the burst is far superior on a sorc plus Sorcs have the means to kite an onslaught buff.

Stamwarden burst is great too but it is far more difficult to land.

Look, if you want your points to be taken seriously you have to debate from a point of both knowledge and integrity. You're failing so far on one of the two at least. I'm talking about the part of your statement I highlighted.

Sure, Sorc has Power Stone that reduces the cost. But Necro has Necrotic Potency and Corpse Consumption. NB has Catalyst, Transfer and magblades can also have Soul Harvest. DK has Mountain's Blessing. Templar has both Prism and Restoring Spirit, Warden has Major Heroism on Shimmering, Savage Beast and MagWardens can have Natures Grasp. Every class has a way of either reducing ult costs or upping their ult generation and in the Templars' case they have both.

However with the exceptions of MagNecro (Meteor or Colossus) or MagWarden (Meteor or Permafrost) nobody else relies on offensive ults of 200 ult points (base cost) or above like MagSorc does. And both Warden and Necro reach their ults faster than Sorc. So the fact is that the Sorc ult-centric burst comes around a less often than it does on any other class. If you play all classes/combos and watch combat metrics you'll see MagSorc drops less offensive ults over 15 mins than anyone else. Contrary to the point you're alluding to in your bolded statement.

MagSorc burst is indeed currently better than NB. That is because of the delays that they added to instant ults and spectral bow that make the NB burst more easily avoidable, on top of the removal of stun from Incap. A terrible change in my opinion. Before they had nerfed those, I was playing magblade in BGs with Incap morph and Assassin's Will and the combo was as good burst as MagSorcs but far more frequent and more reliable since Sorc had no unblockable Streak stun back then. Tables have turned but we can hope for NB buffs.

Stamwarden burst is not more difficult to land than Sorc. You can hold your Onslaught until your Dizzy stun lands, making the Onslaught extremely hard to void, to not say anything of the pre-armed Sub Assault. Sorc has to first throw his Meteor ult and then hope they can land a stun. In the meantime the target might use that 1" to LOS and avoid the stun, pop an Immovable pot, purge the Curse (Templars) or simply throw on shields and whatever defensive measure they have. Thus the burst is harder to land and more likely to be mitigated.

I'm pretty sure you are confusing the MagSorc ability to benefit (through Fury) from other peoples' damage and burst, with their ability to generate their own burst. Play MagSorc without Fury and you will find the burst worse than most classes.

Ever get the impression most sorcs are noobs?

Most have no idea how to optimize their own class, or how their own abilities work. You see what they write, always sounding like they know something everyone else doesn’t but usually know next to nothing.

I always get the impression most sorcs have been carried by being an easy mode class for so long. They haven’t had to put in the time to test out their abilities because they haven’t had to.

It seems to be an epidemic amongst older players and maybe not specific to sorcs. They get stuck on an old meta and can’t adapt.

I could tell you everything you’re doing wrong but why bother. I’d rather help newer players then older ones who think they know everything.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There are two classes which consistently over perform in most battlegrounds:

Mag Warden = Heals and permafrost
Mag Sorc = Endless fury killing blows and streak

Everything else is fairly balanced

I don't know much about Templars & DKs so I don't know if it's stam, mag, or both, but those two are worse in my opinion. Root/snare has a lot to do with it, but they are just too tanky for the amount of damage they can put out. Chaosball should just be renamed Templarball. Sorcs are definitely easy mode though, with streak especially being overtuned. As far as wardens, I don't have a strong opinion on them.

Healing in general is completely OP in this game for most classes compared to what I'm used to, but the "time out" skill that templars have (where it looks like they are praying & 5 people can't take them down) is just absurd.

In what way is Streak especially overturned that’s making Sorcs easy mode in BGs? Take away the Fury kill-steals and Sorcs have hardly anything of note. Neither heals, nor damage, ability to tank or group utility.

Which is why a lot of Sorcs are advocating that the Fury execute should only proc when the Sorc himself deals damage on the enemy with Fury and under 20% HP. Then we’ll truly see how good Sorc is all around. And whether it’s undertuned or overtuned.

If sorcs don’t have good damage then who does? Sorcs are the undisputed burst class in ESO.

Damage and burst are not the same thing. In damage Sorcs are below average. DKs, Templars and Wardens are simply better because they have more DoTs and AoEs in their kit. They put a lot more group pressure than a Sorc can ever hope to put out. Sorcs are only above the heavily nerfed NB and Necro, who’s toolkit barely works.

In burst they rank better than dmg but I find any 2H build with Onslaught superior, particularly stamPlars and stamWardens would have PotL and Sub Assault respectively to combo with their ult and 2H execute. Even magplar that combines Toppling Charge with Crescent and Purifying Light explosion has more unpredictable burst.

MagSorc burst is good, but very highly telegraphed. It involves not just one, but 2 highly visible effects on the target, Curse and Meteor, both with a delay. You can’t imagine the amount of times that combo is either easily blocked or Mistformed through and nullified.

I’m not saying anything controversial here. If you believe Sorc to have the best damage or burst I can only recommend you to play more classes. As your opinion can clearly not be the result of significant playing experience with diverse classes.

I agree with what you’re saying. Only difference is Sorcs don’t need too many ultimate points for their burst. Coming from a magblade the burst is far superior on a sorc plus Sorcs have the means to kite an onslaught buff.

Stamwarden burst is great too but it is far more difficult to land.

Look, if you want your points to be taken seriously you have to debate from a point of both knowledge and integrity. You're failing so far on one of the two at least. I'm talking about the part of your statement I highlighted.

Sure, Sorc has Power Stone that reduces the cost. But Necro has Necrotic Potency and Corpse Consumption. NB has Catalyst, Transfer and magblades can also have Soul Harvest. DK has Mountain's Blessing. Templar has both Prism and Restoring Spirit, Warden has Major Heroism on Shimmering, Savage Beast and MagWardens can have Natures Grasp. Every class has a way of either reducing ult costs or upping their ult generation and in the Templars' case they have both.

However with the exceptions of MagNecro (Meteor or Colossus) or MagWarden (Meteor or Permafrost) nobody else relies on offensive ults of 200 ult points (base cost) or above like MagSorc does. And both Warden and Necro reach their ults faster than Sorc. So the fact is that the Sorc ult-centric burst comes around a less often than it does on any other class. If you play all classes/combos and watch combat metrics you'll see MagSorc drops less offensive ults over 15 mins than anyone else. Contrary to the point you're alluding to in your bolded statement.

MagSorc burst is indeed currently better than NB. That is because of the delays that they added to instant ults and spectral bow that make the NB burst more easily avoidable, on top of the removal of stun from Incap. A terrible change in my opinion. Before they had nerfed those, I was playing magblade in BGs with Incap morph and Assassin's Will and the combo was as good burst as MagSorcs but far more frequent and more reliable since Sorc had no unblockable Streak stun back then. Tables have turned but we can hope for NB buffs.

Stamwarden burst is not more difficult to land than Sorc. You can hold your Onslaught until your Dizzy stun lands, making the Onslaught extremely hard to void, to not say anything of the pre-armed Sub Assault. Sorc has to first throw his Meteor ult and then hope they can land a stun. In the meantime the target might use that 1" to LOS and avoid the stun, pop an Immovable pot, purge the Curse (Templars) or simply throw on shields and whatever defensive measure they have. Thus the burst is harder to land and more likely to be mitigated.

I'm pretty sure you are confusing the MagSorc ability to benefit (through Fury) from other peoples' damage and burst, with their ability to generate their own burst. Play MagSorc without Fury and you will find the burst worse than most classes.

Ever get the impression most sorcs are noobs?

Most have no idea how to optimize their own class, or how their own abilities work. You see what they write, always sounding like they know something everyone else doesn’t but usually know next to nothing.

I always get the impression most sorcs have been carried by being an easy mode class for so long. They haven’t had to put in the time to test out their abilities because they haven’t had to.

It seems to be an epidemic amongst older players and maybe not specific to sorcs. They get stuck on an old meta and can’t adapt.

I could tell you everything you’re doing wrong but why bother. I’d rather help newer players then older ones who think they know everything.

Suit yourself. I'm not here asking for help, I'm doing more than fine. I'm trying to point out where your argument is very clearly flawed. Take it or leave it, it's up to you.

Langeston

@Maulkin wrote:

I have all classes/combos and +1300 CP. Played since beta, April 2014...<snip>

A simple "yes, that is correct" would have sufficed. I don't need your life story.

accidentally stunned by streak, which is a non-argument

It wasn't an argument, it was a statement. I mentioned it to partially illustrate what a brain-dead skill it it is.

on my mag chars I can take at least 5 stuns on CD without problems

Not sure I buy that. Break free is 5.4k right? How much stam do you run on your mag toons?

You mentioned the whole Sorc toolkit being overtuned, which even without my input you should know that cannot be in touch with reality, or else the class would be far outperforming its rivals

It is overtuned once you take into consideration the low skill level required to get decent results. Curse/Frags/Wrath (all of which are considerably stronger than any NB class skill save Grim Focus & infinitely easier to use) or load up a zoo & get free shields that attack for you. Are there exceptional Sorcs out there? Of course. But you don't have to be exceptional at the class to still do fairly well, which is my point. Sorcs [and Templars] come with training wheels.

So there really isn't a coherent point for me to debate against

Who said I was interested in debating you?

And I'm sorry if it comes across a snobbish view

It isn't your view I take issue with, it's your condescending & arrogant tone. And tbh, I don't even know what your view is, aside from "nuh-uh." But at this point I don't particularly care.

Regards


P.S. I noticed you were whining as recently as June of this year about how "unsummoning [pets] is cumbersome and inconvenient." Literally less than 15 minutes after I slotted the first pet on my Sorc, this "low-experience" player figured out how to bind dismiss to any key of my choosing (I chose the asterisk.) Considering you couldn't figure out how to do that in ~5 years/1300 CP, maybe you're not quite the guru you seem to think you are.