JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.
There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.
This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.
It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...
JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.
There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.
This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.
It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...
I say about pvp part, nothing about pve roles when saying about homogenization.
Pve roles are group only things must to do for special pve pre-programmed mechanics and situations.
Insightfull, but exactly such things, based only on pve background tied to "roles", are the reason why classes identity so highly blurred now.
Core of these things should be in pvp apply, than going to(adapted to) pve to have interesting gameplay
Also, only very lazy people have no at least few characters on account for different roles in pve or different builds with different playstyle in pvp. Lvling is very fast thing in 2019.
Game should not be slave of these people...
JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.
There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.
This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.
It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...
I say about pvp part, nothing about pve roles when saying about homogenization.
Pve roles are group only things must to do for special pve pre-programmed mechanics and situations.
Insightfull, but exactly such things, based only on pve background tied to "roles", are the reason why classes identity so highly blurred now.
Core of these things should be in pvp apply, than going to(adapted to) pve to have interesting gameplay
Also, only very lazy people have no at least few characters on account for different roles in pve or different builds with different playstyle in pvp. Lvling is very fast thing in 2019.
Game should not be slave of these people...
Yes, I think you say something insightful. But it's not about laziness. It's not about having everyone roll a new character that happens to be the Meta BiS hysteria of the quarter or the year. By diversity but balance for all Classes, every one of your 16 characters should be fun to play. Not shoehorning you onto the only viable way to play the game for the moment.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »I agree that what stamsorc needs is group utility, not damage.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »I agree that what stamsorc needs is group utility, not damage.
If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in damage, nobody will use them.
If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in utility, nobody will use them either.
And vice versa.
The goal was never to ask for a plain numerical dps buff for stam sorcs, but for class identity. But nobody will slot a skill and deliberately gimp himself just because it's in the class tree.
That being said, you could add 3k dps and trial groups would still ask for Necros just because of their ultimate's debuff.
Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.
Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
Then he just one-two shot everyone.
Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.
.
Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.
Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.
Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.
.
Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.
Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.
Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.
.
Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.
I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else
It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
(IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)
Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.
I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else
It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
(IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)
Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
Quite decent actually (in PvP that is), especially all that stamina returnDark Conversion can be used as a burst heal, it's not too bad.
If you are using the default basegame UI (no addons), then what you don't see is enemy shield strength.healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.
I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else
It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
(IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)
Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP
Quite decent actually (in PvP that is), especially all that stamina returnDark Conversion can be used as a burst heal, it's not too bad.
On a non-petsorc it's your go-to burst heal.If you are using the default basegame UI (no addons), then what you don't see is enemy shield strength.healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
A shielded enemy indeed "appears" to be taking no damage, and even healing while taking damage.
This is perfectly normal, but (by default) the healthbar doesn't show that, so on the surface it looks like cheating/exploiting.
Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.
I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else
It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
(IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)
Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP
Cernunnos55 wrote: »Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.
I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else
It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
(IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)
Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP
The fact that he's asking these questions at all is indicative that he has at least some experience. Something has occurred that is outwith his usual realm of experience, and that is odd, which is why it deserves the question. If he was not experienced, he would pass it off as "something I don't know yet" and move on.
Regarding the actual question:
The other morph of Crystal Frags is Crystal Blast. This does indeed knock you down, and hits hard still, although doesn't have the proc bonus of Frags. There is a plethora of things that could allow the enemy to heal in that way. Resto staff ult is what comes to mind. Pet heals are pretty strong. Healing Ward would be hefty at that point of health. Troll Kind, Rapid Regen, Earthgore, loads of ***. I wouldn't say that this kind of thing shouldn't be on any build though - everything said either has a cooldown or is resource reliant. If folk are being annoying I just pressure them - they can heal and heal and heal, until they can't. And then they die.
Don't forget about the infinite sustain, too.You're right in that I do not understand these builds that allow for all the things at once (great damage mitigation, tons of healing and high damage).
Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.
Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.
Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.
.
PhoenixGrey wrote: »Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.
Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.
Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.
.
So you got 1vx'ed along with 5 other zerglings . Probably try to not zerg and try to actually PVP.
Mag sorc is the easiest spec to kill this patch.