The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread
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FenrisWolf1136✭✭✭Why has all feedback regarding werewolf been ignored through the entire PTS cycle for Update 23? A lot of feedback has been made on why these changes (Hircine's Bounty and morphs being too expensive and pack leader not offering good utility) are too much. And why aren't any adjustments being made? (speaking from a PvP and PvE perspective)ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
A lot of the feedback given on the werewolf changes don’t appear to be actioned upon. Why were no additional adjustments made?
We believe the werewolf is in a relatively good state balance-wise at the moment, but are continuing to monitor the live servers to see how things shake out.
we ask why werewolf feedback is being ignored and they passive aggressively change our question to doesn't appear to be actioned up. (yeah that sounds better right?)
maybe every single developer plays a dedicated werewolf toon and we the players opinions are just not good enough to see what their vision is?
because clearly the feedback provided in this thread and multiple other threads regarding the state of werewolf ultimate (ON PTS/LIVE SERVERS) aren't good enough reasons to make LITERALLY ONE ADJUSTMENT.
but hey.... at least the animation to bite someone works...... THANKS
Right? Like the players who main werewolves dont know what we are talking about. Zos knows best? They clearly dont play or understand their own game if they think werewolf in its current state is balanced lol. OuchProgrammer of FenrisBot for discord.
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SosRuvaak✭✭✭✭✭during vvardenfell release, the ult hardly worked.
it took them like, 3 months to notice that bug.
ALL I DID every day, was complain on the forums. i hate complaining.
i am told, the squeaky wheel gets the grease though.For the Pact!
~Sump Scales~
Lusty Argonian Nightblade
~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
Smokes-His-Greens
~Ruvaak~4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe if we keep updating this thread it will get noticed by zos?
Like they noticed the 82 page thread about Bosmer stealth being trashed? Yeah, they noticed that one so much they got tired of it and closed it. Hopefully they don't sweep werewolves under the rug as well.
Edited by Jaraal on August 26, 2019 5:26AMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.2 -
SosRuvaak✭✭✭✭✭
i dont think theyd close a feedback thread.For the Pact!
~Sump Scales~
Lusty Argonian Nightblade
~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
Smokes-His-Greens
~Ruvaak~0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with Werewolves. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!
1. Hircine's Heals: Scalebreaker saw these heals nerfed, most agreed the heal itself was overtuned and was allowed troll wolf builds to thrive this was poor ability design.
The current state of the werewolf heal is a sad one. In order for a wolf to survive they need to invest heavily into magicka regen or health regen to do so they have to sacrifice a large part of their damage, everyone else in the game can gain more survivability by building their main stat pool, or increasing spell power/ weapon power.
The abilities that it compares to are ones that only tanks would use as a primary heal. Any other time the user is using another ability as their primary source of survival.
2. Packleader new state is pretty bad, any serious player will never pick this morph now.
In pve dungeon why would any other players be happy to have a packleader in group, your tank already provides everything the pack leader brings.
In PVP pack leaders are designed for 1v1 but they lack the damage to kill any competent player in those times that you get a 1v1. At best it becomes a Xv1 morph. Becoming an annoying opponent but not a dangerous one.
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA5 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Hircine's Heals: Scalebreaker saw these heals nerfed, most agreed the heal itself was overtuned and was allowed troll wolf builds to thrive this was poor ability design.
The current state of the werewolf heal is a sad one. In order for a wolf to survive they need to invest heavily into magicka regen or health regen to do so they have to sacrifice a large part of their damage, everyone else in the game can gain more survivability by building their main stat pool, or increasing spell power/ weapon power.
Worst part about werewolf this patch isn´t even the changes to the heal (while it is a pretty bad change), it´s the fact that werewolf does little to no damage in PvP. And that comes from someone who runs berserker morph with two damage sets. Changing the bleed to longer ignore resistance is what killed werewolf PvP for me completely. You can´t put enough pressure on anyone with half decent build..........
All these change that was made in Scalebreaker would imply that werewolfs were overperforming somehow. I would really like to know in what context that was, because I really can´t find out what that context was (outside of sub 50 BG´s which are a joke anyway). I would also like to know where all the "werewolf needs nerfs" feedback was coming from.
Honestly ZOS, remove werewolf from the game as a playable alternative. Make it a cosmetic option only, because it serves no purpose in the game at this point.....6 -
FenrisWolf1136✭✭✭Zos monitors and collects data from the servers. To quote "We collect data about what players are doing in the game and how they participate in the content." Any chance zos will show that data to the players? Im curious how many werewolves play in vet dlc trials, where they are used in pvp, and how else they are used in content since that's data on hand. Might give us some insight as to these new changes.
Should release all the data showing how often content is completed, characters and classes used in that content, and whatever other data is used to help make changes to the game.Edited by FenrisWolf1136 on August 26, 2019 3:25PMProgrammer of FenrisBot for discord.
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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Since the update 23, I have seen maybe 2, in the 1st week of the patch. After the 1st week - I have seen none. Overland, public, group dungeons, BGs & Cyro. 0. ZERO. NONE. NULL. It is like they went extinct.FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »Zos monitors and collects data from the servers. To quote "We collect data about what players are doing in the game and how they participate in the content." Any chance zos will show that data to the players? Im curious how many werewolves play in vet dlc trials, where they are used in pvp, and how else they are used in content since that's data on hand. Might give us some insight as to these new changes.
Idk, maybe I am just unlucky or something, but this is my experience. U23 came and all WW are gone....
So, yeah, I would also like to see those data...4 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Since the update 23, I have seen maybe 2, in the 1st week of the patch. After the 1st week - I have seen none. Overland, public, group dungeons, BGs & Cyro. 0. ZERO. NONE. NULL. It is like they went extinct.FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »Zos monitors and collects data from the servers. To quote "We collect data about what players are doing in the game and how they participate in the content." Any chance zos will show that data to the players? Im curious how many werewolves play in vet dlc trials, where they are used in pvp, and how else they are used in content since that's data on hand. Might give us some insight as to these new changes.
Idk, maybe I am just unlucky or something, but this is my experience. U23 came and all WW are gone....
So, yeah, I would also like to see those data...
This is all your fault. You three werewolves have singlehandedly gotten the entire playstyle nerfed due to excellent theorycrafting and knowing how to play. HOW DARE YOU raise the skill bar... demand high compete level.
It’s like you’re in all places at once dishing out cans of WHOOP ASS. Have you no shame???Edited by Skoomah on August 26, 2019 5:09PM5 -
cmvet✭✭✭So I'm looking forward in a way to the update on PS4, I have a couple builds in mind to try for vMA, BG's, and Cyrodiil. But, if it is severely gimped, unplayable, no a feasible play style, I guess I will just have to cure it, move to vamp. If it turns out to be that, I think the only way ZOS can see the metrics is to cure it so they see how few ww there really are. I currently have 4 different ww toons, I know at least 1 will need to be cured cause class/race won't work with these changes.0
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FenrisWolf1136✭✭✭So I'm looking forward in a way to the update on PS4, I have a couple builds in mind to try for vMA, BG's, and Cyrodiil. But, if it is severely gimped, unplayable, no a feasible play style, I guess I will just have to cure it, move to vamp. If it turns out to be that, I think the only way ZOS can see the metrics is to cure it so they see how few ww there really are. I currently have 4 different ww toons, I know at least 1 will need to be cured cause class/race won't work with these changes.
I have 9 cp werewolf characters lol. (I might have a small problem). All this update has done so far is drive me to play something else. Pack leader is next to useless, dps has dropped again, and the heal is beyond expensive on magicka of all things. Can't run a ww in my trials guild anymore because i no longer meet the minimum dps threshold on my main. But the devs feels werewolf is balanced in this state somehow... would like some additional information on why that is.
Zos said they collect data about what people play and how they play it, show the community that data. Show that the decisions are being made of off valid points and not guesses and complaints about being overpowered on the forums. Show the data to back up the changes being made.
@ZOS_GinaBrunoProgrammer of FenrisBot for discord.
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Haink✭✭I can't tell if I hate it or not yet in PVP. I have a 50 of each class, all WW characters. I play Warden WW extensively. Battlegrounds feel ok, but the heal really didn't need the cost increase. I always enjoyed WW PVP because I could put pressure on some of the tanky players, but I feel like I am hitting them like a wet noodle in solo play.
All in All, group play is fine as WW. I find myself mostly outside of WW form in solo play more often now days![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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With that said, I'll keep at it and adjusting until I find the perfect set up again. If any of you fellas want to get together for PVP/ WW Wednesday in Cyrodiil hit me up. Arrroooooooo0 -
cmvet✭✭✭FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »So I'm looking forward in a way to the update on PS4, I have a couple builds in mind to try for vMA, BG's, and Cyrodiil. But, if it is severely gimped, unplayable, no a feasible play style, I guess I will just have to cure it, move to vamp. If it turns out to be that, I think the only way ZOS can see the metrics is to cure it so they see how few ww there really are. I currently have 4 different ww toons, I know at least 1 will need to be cured cause class/race won't work with these changes.
I have 9 cp werewolf characters lol. (I might have a small problem). All this update has done so far is drive me to play something else. Pack leader is next to useless, dps has dropped again, and the heal is beyond expensive on magicka of all things. Can't run a ww in my trials guild anymore because i no longer meet the minimum dps threshold on my main. But the devs feels werewolf is balanced in this state somehow... would like some additional information on why that is.
Zos said they collect data about what people play and how they play it, show the community that data. Show that the decisions are being made of off valid points and not guesses and complaints about being overpowered on the forums. Show the data to back up the changes being made.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
To cure your lycanthropy, seek out Prelate Sabinus in the Mages Guild hall in Rawl'kha, Evermore, or Riften.
Cost noting....0 -
SosRuvaak✭✭✭✭✭I can't tell if I hate it or not yet in PVP. I have a 50 of each class, all WW characters. I play Warden WW extensively. Battlegrounds feel ok, but the heal really didn't need the cost increase. I always enjoyed WW PVP because I could put pressure on some of the tanky players, but I feel like I am hitting them like a wet noodle in solo play.
All in All, group play is fine as WW. I find myself mostly outside of WW form in solo play more often now days.
With that said, I'll keep at it and adjusting until I find the perfect set up again. If any of you fellas want to get together for PVP/ WW Wednesday in Cyrodiil hit me up. Arrroooooooo
with penetration sets on a nightblade/warden ww i still cant get damage through some of these tanks who just sit there absorbing everything past a fear's cc and waiting for me to use my heal 2 times so they can wipe me.
on all of my toons i cant use the heal more than twice in an instant, that is soo unreliable its forced me to stop using werewolf on both bars and focusing on it just helping my stam regen.
i have been biting people a ton, but the new players will come to find that werewolf is underpowered in a lot of situations.
ive consistently thought werewolf has been strong up until this patch.For the Pact!
~Sump Scales~
Lusty Argonian Nightblade
~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
Smokes-His-Greens
~Ruvaak~1 -
chrightt✭✭✭✭I feel like WW is still quite low on skill cap for quite the amount of advantage. Sure, they fall off a bit more in high level battlegrounds but they still allow some people to easily outperform what their skill allows them to do. WWs are still particularly annoying in lower level BGs where even decently geared alts can steam roll whole teams (especially if the alts group up). Really don't think WWs need a buff at all and running WW ultimate gives you 15% stam regen which is quite a lot even if you don't end up wanting to use WW. Honestly would prefer WWs to get nerfed in some way they're less annoying to deal with in PVP and more easily accessible in PVE.1 -
cmvet✭✭✭I feel like WW is still quite low on skill cap for quite the amount of advantage. Sure, they fall off a bit more in high level battlegrounds but they still allow some people to easily outperform what their skill allows them to do. WWs are still particularly annoying in lower level BGs where even decently geared alts can steam roll whole teams (especially if the alts group up). Really don't think WWs need a buff at all and running WW ultimate gives you 15% stam regen which is quite a lot even if you don't end up wanting to use WW. Honestly would prefer WWs to get nerfed in some way they're less annoying to deal with in PVP and more easily accessible in PVE.
lol, has to be troll post right? As stated many times in here, when in pvp just learn to immobilize. Do that and you will never have an issue with ww. If you had an issue with them in pvp it truly is a l2p issue. 15% stam regen is literally an extra 150 on a 1000 regen build, 300 on a 2k regen build. That apparently is OP
In BG's remember they build specifically to be in ww form. They are weak out of it. If you can't CC/Immobilize and get them to drop ww, you need to change your play style.Edited by cmvet on August 27, 2019 12:39AM6 -
Ellyhan✭✭✭Leave us no wolf with no time limit ! Change that, in Raid it's very boring to have to lose in DPS without the primary form to retransform ...J'ai pas de coéquipiers, c'est juste mon garde manger.1 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I feel like WW is still quite low on skill cap for quite the amount of advantage. Sure, they fall off a bit more in high level battlegrounds but they still allow some people to easily outperform what their skill allows them to do. WWs are still particularly annoying in lower level BGs where even decently geared alts can steam roll whole teams (especially if the alts group up). Really don't think WWs need a buff at all and running WW ultimate gives you 15% stam regen which is quite a lot even if you don't end up wanting to use WW. Honestly would prefer WWs to get nerfed in some way they're less annoying to deal with in PVP and more easily accessible in PVE.
Your mentality around werewolves is toxic, malicious, and quite frankly a pile of garbage.
I’ve played alongside highly experienced werewolf players and the amount of time and effort that goes into making a competitive werewolf character requires a high level understanding of the game, given the limitations of playing as one. You have half the skill bars as humanoid players, have no access to ultimates, bring less utility in group play, etc. And these werewolves are still able to wipe legions of players. Do you ever think it’s not that werewolves are low on skill cap, but that the community is low on skill level... dying to a wolf with one hand tied behind their back?Edited by Skoomah on August 27, 2019 10:55AM12 -
cmvet✭✭✭Will post a PS4 DPS parse of Pre-Scalebreaker vs. Post with Pack leader and Beserker form. So far, pack leader went from 70k DPS down to 49k DPS on 25mil dummy. Will grab Beserker after work and post vid.Edited by cmvet on August 27, 2019 8:15PM1
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cmvet✭✭✭
Alright, so results are in for Dps output on both Pack leader and Beserker morphs...
https://youtu.be/obBfVufxZ0EWerewolf Pack Leader before scalebreaker was 70.5k DPS on basic rotation. Pack Leader after Scalebreaker is 49k DPS with same rotation. Beserker morph after Scalebreaker 59.5k DPS. Damn huge damage nerfs. About 30% nerf on Pack Leader, and about 16% reduction on Beseker morph. So much for "should feel 25% stronger".5 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
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Alright, so results are in for Dps output on both Pack leader and Beserker morphs...https://youtu.be/obBfVufxZ0EWerewolf Pack Leader before scalebreaker was 70.5k DPS on basic rotation. Pack Leader after Scalebreaker is 49k DPS with same rotation. Beserker morph after Scalebreaker 59.5k DPS. Damn huge damage nerfs. About 30% nerf on Pack Leader, and about 16% reduction on Beseker morph. So much for "should feel 25% stronger".
Why does ZOS even care to spend time on changing something only a tiny fraction of a fraction of the population actually plays?
Why can’t ZOS just leave it alone and let people enjoy something that isn’t hurting anyone...Edited by Skoomah on August 27, 2019 9:29PM6 -
cmvet✭✭✭
Alright, so results are in for Dps output on both Pack leader and Beserker morphs...https://youtu.be/obBfVufxZ0EWerewolf Pack Leader before scalebreaker was 70.5k DPS on basic rotation. Pack Leader after Scalebreaker is 49k DPS with same rotation. Beserker morph after Scalebreaker 59.5k DPS. Damn huge damage nerfs. About 30% nerf on Pack Leader, and about 16% reduction on Beseker morph. So much for "should feel 25% stronger".
Why does ZOS even care to spend time on changing something only a tiny fraction of a fraction of the population actually plays?
Why can’t ZOS just leave it alone and let people enjoy something that isn’t hurting anyone...
I'm all for change and balance, but this is sooooo far beyond i can't even wrap my head around it. I wasn't expecting such a large delta pre and post scalebreaker0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be honest... ZOS needs to take into account how much people enjoy playing something vs just making random changes. Werewolves were fun to play once. Take the L and revert some of the changes ZOS.2 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
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Alright, so results are in for Dps output on both Pack leader and Beserker morphs...https://youtu.be/obBfVufxZ0EWerewolf Pack Leader before scalebreaker was 70.5k DPS on basic rotation. Pack Leader after Scalebreaker is 49k DPS with same rotation. Beserker morph after Scalebreaker 59.5k DPS. Damn huge damage nerfs. About 30% nerf on Pack Leader, and about 16% reduction on Beseker morph. So much for "should feel 25% stronger".
With Zos' changes in Scalebreaker it is now very beneficial for you to weave Howls in with your LAs, doing so with your current set up should get you pushing 80k+ dps on the Iron.
ZOS lowered the floor and kept the ceiling the same in terms of pve dps.Edited by Chrlynsch on August 27, 2019 9:45PMCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Mr_Wolfe✭✭✭Insert the obligatory "How in oblivion were you getting 70k on a werewolf?"
I could just barely break 30k, pre-scalebreaker. Don't even want to know what it's dropped to now. 0 -
cmvet✭✭✭
Alright, so results are in for Dps output on both Pack leader and Beserker morphs...https://youtu.be/obBfVufxZ0EWerewolf Pack Leader before scalebreaker was 70.5k DPS on basic rotation. Pack Leader after Scalebreaker is 49k DPS with same rotation. Beserker morph after Scalebreaker 59.5k DPS. Damn huge damage nerfs. About 30% nerf on Pack Leader, and about 16% reduction on Beseker morph. So much for "should feel 25% stronger".
With Zos' changes in Scalebreaker it is now very beneficial for you to weave Howls in with your LAs, doing so with your current set up should get you pushing 80k+ dps on the Iron.
ZOS lowered the floor and kept the ceiling the same in terms of pve dps.
Yes, when running in groups I always use howl. This parse was to simplify the rotation for a straight forward comparison pre and post. 80k may be doable in PC but on PS4 doubtful. I don't see howl taking a 59.5k dps to an 80k dps Maybe 65k or so. Will play with it, and adjust CP a bit to see what I can come up with 1 -
cmvet✭✭✭Insert the obligatory "How in oblivion were you getting 70k on a werewolf?"
I could just barely break 30k, pre-scalebreaker. Don't even want to know what it's dropped to now.
it's on a raid dummy that gives you majority of buffs. But really, Relequen and Bloodmoon or Tzogvins. Hell, even viper works well.1 -
Mr_Wolfe✭✭✭Insert the obligatory "How in oblivion were you getting 70k on a werewolf?"
I could just barely break 30k, pre-scalebreaker. Don't even want to know what it's dropped to now.
it's on a raid dummy that gives you majority of buffs. But really, Relequen and Bloodmoon or Tzogvins. Hell, even viper works well.
Wait, so there's target dummies that cheese your parse for you now?
That's not a very accurate representation of a werewolf's strength, since they can't get most of those buffs without non-ww's helping them. I also really hate that people keep saying "oh it's just relequen and bloodmoon" because that's simply not true. While I've never run that particular combo myself (don't have the pieces), my husband has and he still only got ~35k out of it in werewolf form. There's obviously more to it, and people misrepresenting WW as "one weird trick for easy dps" is part of what got us nerfed so bad in the first place.Edited by Mr_Wolfe on August 27, 2019 11:45PM2
