[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

Drako_Ei

My biggest pain is dungeons.

If i have to wait for the stupid boss to introduce himself, or for the stupid npc to finish talking and open the door i lose my transformation.

Also i always pull before the tank, causing my other teammates to die sometimes.

Solution that works for pve and pvp:

Make WW timmer stop IF you are not moving, or if you are not in combat (First would make more sense, but second would allow traveling as WW!).

DreadDaedroth

Admit mistake.
Revert changes back.
Profit.

FenrisWolf1136

Oh look. More werewolf nerfs this patch...

Tommy_The_Gun

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Oh look. More werewolf nerfs this patch...

Not that I care anymore but... last time it seamed that there is nothing left to nerf....
(side note: need to test it but Claws of live morph will probably now heal you upfront + hot, since base morph now deals disease dmg rather than physical).

IlCanis_LupuslI

Considering the ww changes.... ZOS are you out of your mind? Nerf the bleeds even more? Ww already in most cases hits like a wet noodle compared to before and u want to nerf the bleeds by 48%? Like wtf? Who is doing this balance changes? Has anyone of the people playing ww even played werewolf? Nerf claws of life as well? Screwing over the main heal not enough for you?
Edit:
ok maby the Claws of Life change isnt to bad if the first initial damage hit heals aswell that should be pretty sweet actually making the claws of life heal for more and it scales very well with multiple opponents but the bleed damage nerf by 50% is bs sorry. isnt the werewolf supposed to feel 25% stronger? make the dot 25% stronger then other comparable dots maby idk. Rip pressuring people in ww form next patch

Chrlynsch

What can Werewolves do against such reckless hate?

Qbiken

I'm now convinced that Wrobel wasn't the guy who brought all bad balance changes to the game. He was the last filter that made all horrible ideas from the rest of the team come out less horrible than they were......

Dashmatt

Can someone explain to me what Berserkers have been doing this patch to justify nerfing the bleed by another 48%?

Who’s been rampaging and what is your build, because personally my damage sorta sucks already.

I give up.

Kilcosu

Dashmatt wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what Berserkers have been doing this patch to justify nerfing the bleed by another 48%?

Who’s been rampaging and what is your build, because personally my damage sorta sucks already.

I give up.

I wish I had an answer for this. Players that I've run with who used werewolf before update 23 dropped it because it was too weak in pvp or not preferred in pve content. I fear this particular nerf to the bleed Dot is part of the giant blanket dot nerf across every skill in update 24.

but remember that we should feel 25% more powerful because our abilities cost 25% more....

cmvet

Kilcosu wrote: »

Dashmatt wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what Berserkers have been doing this patch to justify nerfing the bleed by another 48%?

Who’s been rampaging and what is your build, because personally my damage sorta sucks already.

I give up.

I wish I had an answer for this. Players that I've run with who used werewolf before update 23 dropped it because it was too weak in pvp or not preferred in pve content. I fear this particular nerf to the bleed Dot is part of the giant blanket dot nerf across every skill in update 24.

but remember that we should feel 25% more powerful because our abilities cost 25% more....

Ugh, and I thought it couldn't get any worse. I'm down to 2 ww toons now, after this it may be 0. I would be ok with it if they gave us weapon passives. As it stands currently, my skills cost 25% more, but do 25% less damage per cost because I do not get to take advantage of passives to increase my damage ( weapon or class passive for slotting specific skills).

I posted a vid comparing ww damage pre and post scalebreaker, the nerf was so drastic compared to anything I have seen in the game in 5 years, and they apparently didn't think it was enough.

Jaraal

cmvet wrote: »

the nerf was so drastic compared to anything I have seen in the game in 5 years, and they apparently didn't think it was enough.

Obviously somebody playing with numbers on a spreadsheet, rather than playing a werewolf in PvP, in a dungeon, in a trial, or even solo.

Mind boggling!

Tommy_The_Gun

During eso twitch stream, when they did update 24 PTS patch notes review, they have said that when they balance stuff, they look at telemetry statistics data, what skills are popular, in what content they are used, what morph is prefered etc.
So it kinda confirmed what I have suspected - if something is popular - it gets nerfed.
WW probably suffered simply because ZOS generally nerfed ALL dots in game. And since WW relies on dots & light attacks as its "spamable" - then this is the result.

As I have mentioned before, ZOS takes into account their statiscts data. They also demonstrated that they dont listen to our feedback and pain points regarding Werewolf. I dont know if this is deliberate or not. But at this point I will simply sugest for us all to drop Werewolf entirely and stop giving ZOS any kind of feedback. Let them have NO data about WW. So they will see that in fact - no one is using it. I hate to say it but it is the best we can do.

ccfeeling

Well , at least I don't have to test in new DLC

Jaraal

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

But at this point I will simply sugest for us all to drop Werewolf entirely and stop giving ZOS any kind of feedback.

After playing my werewolves with the U23 changes and seeing how handicapped I was, I haven't even used the ultimate once. Now, seeing the additional nerfs with U24, I'll just reclaim my skill points and keep playing in normal form..... even though that's being nerfed agin, too.

My playing time in general has dropped off dramatically...... they are finding new ways to make the game less enjoyable every quarter.

Chrlynsch

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

Jaraal

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

How do you figure that, with Claws losing 60% of it's damage and Berserker bleed losing 48%? We took more of a hit than regular form, which actually got a damage increase in AOE DOTS this patch.

DocFrost72

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

I would like to see data on this, if and when you have time to post it

Solo werewolf got a direct and indirect nerf this patch in the healing nerf from claws of life and the resistance nerf to fort brass. I'm going to need to find a way to more reliably heal to continue playing my fur ball now.

FenrisWolf1136

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

During eso twitch stream, when they did update 24 PTS patch notes review, they have said that when they balance stuff, they look at telemetry statistics data, what skills are popular, in what content they are used, what morph is prefered etc.
So it kinda confirmed what I have suspected - if something is popular - it gets nerfed.
WW probably suffered simply because ZOS generally nerfed ALL dots in game. And since WW relies on dots & light attacks as its "spamable" - then this is the result.

As I have mentioned before, ZOS takes into account their statiscts data. They also demonstrated that they dont listen to our feedback and pain points regarding Werewolf. I dont know if this is deliberate or not. But at this point I will simply sugest for us all to drop Werewolf entirely and stop giving ZOS any kind of feedback. Let them have NO data about WW. So they will see that in fact - no one is using it. I hate to say it but it is the best we can do.

Zos has yet to show us any of their "statistic data". I want to know what they see and why some decisions might be getting made. All i see is blanket nerfs and lack of internal testing. There is no clear plan of action or scope aside from, lets swing the hammer and see what happens. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of forethought or planning to this otherwise we wouldn't see such drastic sweeping changes in these numbers. It would be small tweaks and adjustments. This lack of transparancy and communication time and time again just causes more issues.

Dashmatt

I just noticed the nerf to lingering health potions, too. I was using those to cope with the healing sustain nerfs in the last update.

None of these changes are making the game more fun, or even providing interesting alternatives. Regardless I’m not really interested in overhauling my characters every patch. Not that there’s much a Werewolf can do at this point.

Drako_Ei

Kilcosu wrote: »

Dashmatt wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what Berserkers have been doing this patch to justify nerfing the bleed by another 48%?

Who’s been rampaging and what is your build, because personally my damage sorta sucks already.

I give up.

I wish I had an answer for this. Players that I've run with who used werewolf before update 23 dropped it because it was too weak in pvp or not preferred in pve content. I fear this particular nerf to the bleed Dot is part of the giant blanket dot nerf across every skill in update 24.

but remember that we should feel 25% more powerful because our abilities cost 25% more....

I had to leave my WW guild because no one was online

cmvet

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

During eso twitch stream, when they did update 24 PTS patch notes review, they have said that when they balance stuff, they look at telemetry statistics data, what skills are popular, in what content they are used, what morph is prefered etc.
So it kinda confirmed what I have suspected - if something is popular - it gets nerfed.
WW probably suffered simply because ZOS generally nerfed ALL dots in game. And since WW relies on dots & light attacks as its "spamable" - then this is the result.

As I have mentioned before, ZOS takes into account their statiscts data. They also demonstrated that they dont listen to our feedback and pain points regarding Werewolf. I dont know if this is deliberate or not. But at this point I will simply sugest for us all to drop Werewolf entirely and stop giving ZOS any kind of feedback. Let them have NO data about WW. So they will see that in fact - no one is using it. I hate to say it but it is the best we can do.

I've dropped ww on 3 toons already, after this next update I'll drop the last 2 if it remains like it is now.

cmvet

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Chrlynsch

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

cheifsoap

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Chrlynsch

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:


2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

cheifsoap

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:

2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

That's great. You can do a dps parse.

So how about...

...you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM?

or how about a couple of recent videos of WW doing anything useful in a >50 Battleground? How do they look on PTS vMA (I know vMA is a poor example) or vBRP?

FenrisWolf1136

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:


2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

Nice parses. Have you done any on other classes / races? Curious what numbers non orc sorcs are capable of pulling.

Chrlynsch

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:

2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

That's great. You can do a dps parse.

So how about...

...you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM?

or how about a couple of recent videos of WW doing anything useful in a >50 Battleground? How do they look on PTS vMA (I know vMA is a poor example) or vBRP?

Well I wont be doing any trials on the pts, haven't seen if BGs are poping there either. I could do a werewolf VMA run. But really until other data comes in on what else everyone else can do and can pull. All we can really compare is parses.

Chrlynsch

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:


2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

Nice parses. Have you done any on other classes / races? Curious what numbers non orc sorcs are capable of pulling.

I can definitely mess around with other things, want me to see what I can get on as stam dk kitty for ya?

cheifsoap

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf was Nerfed, but compared to everyone else in the game werewolves came out "less nerfed". The High end game dps was shattered as a higher percentage of their damage came from dots. So competitively PvE wolves are in the running again.

lol, so show me a high end pve stam build tha was nerfed as bad as ww. I went from 70k dps down to 49kdps, same setup, same rotation on ww. Don't believe it watch this. Show me a class that lost 30% damage in scalebreaker in high end pve.

You tell me how werewolves came out ok. Now they are getting nerfed again.

Literally every single stam build was nerfed harder than Werewolf was. HIgh end was brought down from 100k+ down to high 70ks-80k because dot stacking is dead and that was were their strength came from. Werewolf is still more than capable of pulling those numbers due to their high damage spamable. Meaning they are right up there in dps with the human counterparts.

You should probably be providing proof rather than an assertion. DOTs; not necessarily stam, were nerfed across the board, including werewolves. There are a lot of problems with WW; one is that they provide nothing to a raid that a better class cant provide unless you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM? They have no utility to keep themselves alive compared to other classes while doing competitive DPS. You can use the BiS sets sure, but you sacrifice sustain and/or survivability to do so where other classes have a much richer toolbox to not only increase their sustain but their survivability. WW has to rely on claws and a severely weakened and costly burst heal.

If you think WW is in a good place or believe they're in a place relative to other classes in this game, you're simply wrong. They're not, they're in a terrible place.

Edit: Fixed typos

Werewolf solo:

2 werewolves using feeding frenzy:

That's great. You can do a dps parse.

So how about...

...you have a recent example of a WW in a vSS HM or vCR HM?

or how about a couple of recent videos of WW doing anything useful in a >50 Battleground? How do they look on PTS vMA (I know vMA is a poor example) or vBRP?

Well I wont be doing any trials on the pts, haven't seen if BGs are poping there either. I could do a werewolf VMA run. But really until other data comes in on what else everyone else can do and can pull. All we can really compare is parses.

When it comes to a WW, that's kinda a poor metric. I'm pretty sure you can still do vMA but I'm more interested in how they compare to other classes in the game. I know some argue that a WW isn't a class but w/e - that's their opinion. Most DPS classes can dps + survive like going downstairs in vCR or pretty much anything in vBRP. I think WW are a bad spot because they have to pick their poison so to speak; dps competitively at the expense of survival/sustain or change sets for survival/sustain at the expense of DPS. DPS doesn't have to do that most of the time because of their toolbox. WW are kinda pigeon held into specific gear and a limited set of skills in their toolbox and they keep getting nerfed.