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[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

  • FenrisWolf1136
    FenrisWolf1136
    ✭✭✭

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    Lol. I'm plenty objective. Id love to see some nice changes to werewolf. Problem is zos will not separate pvp and pve so we work with what we have. And what does my name have to do with it? I've had the username for years. Making assumptions towards people you don't know isn't helpful on a feedback forums. Zos needs to find a better balance, werewolf is in a poor weak state right now. And no matter what way you try to spin it, ww should not be limited to one style of play (pvp /pve). That's just a really bad decision.
    PvE werewolf player since day 1. Working towards completing all end game content with a werewolf because it is a valid endgame playstyle. Cp 860 +

    FenrisBot
    Lists pledges, golden and lux vendors, skyshard locations, skills, cp setups, survey locations, alchemy recipies, and so much more! Built for console players, works with pc.
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    Lol. I'm plenty objective. Id love to see some nice changes to werewolf. Problem is zos will not separate pvp and pve so we work with what we have. And what does my name have to do with it? I've had the username for years. Making assumptions towards people you don't know isn't helpful on a feedback forums. Zos needs to find a better balance, werewolf is in a poor weak state right now. And no matter what way you try to spin it, ww should not be limited to one style of play (pvp /pve). That's just a really bad decision.

    Plenty objective because "I'm sure I'm objective", mr. Fenris Wolf. Bravo!
    Werewolf is in a wrong state, but not that one u think it is. That is my point.
  • Kilcosu
    Kilcosu
    ✭✭✭
    so in regards to the lack of group utilization which is one of the biggest excuses I hear from toxic players to ostracize werewolf players from dungeons/trials.

    I believe pounce needs a unique buff tied to it with the morphs remaining the same. extra time or extra AoE.

    Major/Minor Fester adds 10/20% damage from DoT sources

    I would have said bleed and disease sources but not all builds (mag vs stam) even use bleed/disease damage.

    werewolves need something to bring to the table to help tone down the reasons for ostracizing. (though the ignorant will likely remain ignorant unfortunately)
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭
    Kilcosu wrote: »
    so in regards to the lack of group utilization which is one of the biggest excuses I hear from toxic players to ostracize werewolf players from dungeons/trials.

    I believe pounce needs a unique buff tied to it with the morphs remaining the same. extra time or extra AoE.

    Major/Minor Fester adds 10/20% damage from DoT sources

    I would have said bleed and disease sources but not all builds (mag vs stam) even use bleed/disease damage.

    werewolves need something to bring to the table to help tone down the reasons for ostracizing. (though the ignorant will likely remain ignorant unfortunately)

    Lool, fester???? u didn't enouch frustrated of dots meta in this patch or don't play pvp? wtf?
  • Kilcosu
    Kilcosu
    ✭✭✭
    Lool, fester???? u didn't enouch frustrated of dots meta in this patch or don't play pvp? wtf?
    bro I feel like this was posted from a phone. can you elaborate for me please

    in either case it's been well established that werewolves are nearly extinct in both pve and pvp with this patch and with a whopping nerf to light attacks and bleeds respecting resistance. 10% would hardly tickle any more than the feather being used now.
    Edited by Kilcosu on September 2, 2019 2:10AM
  • Vordac
    Vordac
    Soul Shriven


    - Keeping weapon passives in WW form.
    - Allowing to use non-dmg class abilities (buffs or de-buffs) in WW form.
    - Allowing to use sneak in WW form.
    - Perhaps, adding more skills, so you could customize your "only" 1 bar.
    - In general, it should not be treated as an Ultimate, but rather as a "mini-class".

    While I agree with the sentiment, many of these would just be problematic.
    -Weapon passives could be cool but they dont make up a good 30% or so less dps we pull compared to a fully spec'd endgamer.
    -While slotting other skills would be kind of neat for classes that have passives tied to such requirements but using skills would require them to add in art assets for those skills in ww form - too much effort.
    -Adding in more skills has the same problem, or if you meant allowing for using more than five skills on one bar then that would create issues for the console community - we only have so many buttons. Prob breaks their ui design, also

    It is a very unique class, which doesnt necessarily require the same standardisation. Tbh, I kind of like the relative position of the dmg skills compared to their counterparts - the issue is the 3 utility skills we possess lack flavour. ZOS could simply buff the dmg skills to compensate but this would a bad decision from a pvp standpoint as it'd make them overbearing. A unique debuff makes the most sense - something like 3-5 % would be a reasonable justification for our inclusion in group content (an extra 5% for 7 dds comes to a net 35k gain for 100k trial dummy dds and making us comparable in effective dps), without comprimising pvp too much.
  • Vordac
    Vordac
    Soul Shriven
    Wouldve like a bit more clarification on ZOS's position that
    'We believe the werewolf is in a relatively good state balance-wise at the moment,'
    I think quite a few people would take exception to that, so how does werewolf rank compared to other classes in terms of total player populations? While ww has a lower cap than other classes, is the issue that the dmg distribution for the average player is higher on a ww than on other classes because of its design simplicity leading to an artefactual portrayal of ww gameplay as overperforming pre-Scalebreaker?
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Kilcosu wrote: »
    so in regards to the lack of group utilization which is one of the biggest excuses I hear from toxic players to ostracize werewolf players from dungeons/trials.

    I believe pounce needs a unique buff tied to it with the morphs remaining the same. extra time or extra AoE.

    Major/Minor Fester adds 10/20% damage from DoT sources

    I would have said bleed and disease sources but not all builds (mag vs stam) even use bleed/disease damage.

    werewolves need something to bring to the table to help tone down the reasons for ostracizing. (though the ignorant will likely remain ignorant unfortunately)

    Lool, fester???? u didn't enouch frustrated of dots meta in this patch or don't play pvp? wtf?

    Werewolf bleed is one of the weakest DoTs in PvP at the moment. Even a werewolf cheesing it and investing everything into their DoTs will still hit weaker than some non werewolf build running entropy or soultrap........

    But then again, I don't play werewolf anymore so don't really care what zos does with it at this point, can't get much worse than this.

    did u read what he asked for? he asked for a new minor and major buffs added to the game...
    here not important if ww bleed is the strongest or weakest, such a thing will up all dots damage in game...
    it's garbage. even with upcoming in dragonhold changes in system of how single target dots will apply.
    Kilcosu wrote: »
    Lool, fester???? u didn't enouch frustrated of dots meta in this patch or don't play pvp? wtf?
    bro I feel like this was posted from a phone. can you elaborate for me please

    in either case it's been well established that werewolves are nearly extinct in both pve and pvp with this patch and with a whopping nerf to light attacks and bleeds respecting resistance. 10% would hardly tickle any more than the feather being used now.

    elaborate for u? ok.
    asking for Major and Minor "Fester" buff is total incompetence because number and power of dots in game is crazy now.
    learn the game my friend before asking absolutly awful things.
  • Skoomah
    Skoomah
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be honest, they should revert werewolves to their original design. Which was a tank killer.

    PvP fights have a natural progression (three power levels).

    You judge the fight on initial contact. The moment you slice into the opponent, if they are soft, you use power level 1. The moment you take the first hit from the opponent, if they hit soft, you use power level 1.

    If the opponent is not soft and doesn’t hit soft, then you gotta go through your full rotation of offensive and defensive capabilities, you use power level 2.

    Once in a while you come across a real tanky hard-to-kill mofo, that’s when you gotta pull out the werewolf. Bleed them out to death and apply maximum pressure. Timer is a real issue and a wolf that stays in form too long exposes itself to all the flaws of being a werewolf, low sustain, can’t buff or debuff, healing is only average or below average. But wolf form guarantees a kill 90% of the time. You have hit the nuclear button, you are using power level 3.

    I wish we had werewolf as they were originally designed still. I’d rather have that POWER / Ace Up My Sleeve, rather than the mediocre watered down puppy dog version we have now.

    I think game design was more enjoyable when you came across different kinds of opponents and had to fight each one differently because they all were very powerful in their own way, and you were rewarded for using different strategy and tactics depending on the opponent and successfully countering them, rewarded for experience and skill.
  • Marcus_Cassius
    Marcus_Cassius
    Soul Shriven
    So what was the logic into nerfing the light attacks by 25% and gutting the pets ? Why even using the morph it brings absolutely nothing at all ! The tank already apply minor defile .The dps of the ww is at the very best 70k(not reaching that myself) max parse i seen on trial dummy, while other dps classes top 100K+ now that with best gear possible in both case . There's no reason to bring a werewolf to a trial or a vet dungeon , anything else will perform better. They still have better survivability for solo content like vma but that's an extremely niche role. I am not seeing the pets anymore, and rarely any WW now.
    I cant comment on pvp i am no expert on them, but i am not seeing them either.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Skoomah wrote: »
    I think game design was more enjoyable when you came across different kinds of opponents and had to fight each one differently because they all were very powerful in their own way, and you were rewarded for using different strategy and tactics depending on the opponent and successfully countering them, rewarded for experience and skill.

    Exactly. This "standardization" they are moving to is dumbing down the game and making it unattractive to players who employ situational awareness and actually like making strategic decisions before and during battles. Having choices is what brings flavor to the game. And when the choice of playing werewolf holds absolutely zero advantage, why even bother?

    I find myself playing less and less.... not only my werewolves, but all my characters. Besides ESO moving towards the arcade game model, the performance drop offs introduced with each successive patch is annoying. Getting so tired of all the empty promises of improvement.... someday.

    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • FenrisWolf1136
    FenrisWolf1136
    ✭✭✭

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    Lol. I'm plenty objective. Id love to see some nice changes to werewolf. Problem is zos will not separate pvp and pve so we work with what we have. And what does my name have to do with it? I've had the username for years. Making assumptions towards people you don't know isn't helpful on a feedback forums. Zos needs to find a better balance, werewolf is in a poor weak state right now. And no matter what way you try to spin it, ww should not be limited to one style of play (pvp /pve). That's just a really bad decision.

    Plenty objective because "I'm sure I'm objective", mr. Fenris Wolf. Bravo!
    Werewolf is in a wrong state, but not that one u think it is. That is my point.

    Would you mind elaborating on your point because i still don't follow? As you have stated above, Werewolf is "mainly for pvp" and "75 or 60k for werewolf isn't right if it overpowers ww's in pvp." I followed up with they are not designed for "mainly pvp" and they are not overpowered in either pve or pvp content.

    Reasons being that they hit for less than any regular built stam class, i can link a number of videos if needed to support that point. Their heals are extremely costly and use magicka (which stam oriented builds have very little of). And the pack leader morph has been rendered useless as a ww is built for damage, so reducing their damage as well as nerfing the bleeds and splash aoe damage from heavy attacks is a big detriment to the morph.

    In pve, its hard to get into endgame dlc trials because why bring a ww when most other stam classes can hit harder and on top of that, don't really bring any unique buffs to a group like a normal class? Plus we have lack of range and a timer to work with so there are going to be times where we are in the significantly weaker human form. In pvp, they are easy enough to counter and kill. They don't bring as much pressure to heavily armored players as bleeds don't ignore resistances anymore. And again, depending on setup and build, will only get 2 heals average before being out of magicka and promptly killed.

    And that's just to touch on a few of the pain points that have been listed numerous times by players on this thread. So are werewolves in a bad state right now, overall i would say yes. But i'd like some insight as to what wrong state you think i might be missing. I'm generally curious. And keep it civil please, we want the thread to remain open.
    PvE werewolf player since day 1. Working towards completing all end game content with a werewolf because it is a valid endgame playstyle. Cp 860 +

    FenrisBot
    Lists pledges, golden and lux vendors, skyshard locations, skills, cp setups, survey locations, alchemy recipies, and so much more! Built for console players, works with pc.
  • Marcus_Cassius
    Marcus_Cassius
    Soul Shriven
    Damn i see warden builds holding 10 people at once jumping and mooning and trolling people, then killing one by one and it was werewolf which was considered OP...
  • Marcus_Cassius
    Marcus_Cassius
    Soul Shriven
    cmvet wrote: »
    So what was the logic into nerfing the light attacks by 25% and gutting the pets ? Why even using the morph it brings absolutely nothing at all ! The tank already apply minor defile .The dps of the ww is at the very best 70k(not reaching that myself) max parse i seen on trial dummy, while other dps classes top 100K+ now that with best gear possible in both case . There's no reason to bring a werewolf to a trial or a vet dungeon , anything else will perform better. They still have better survivability for solo content like vma but that's an extremely niche role. I am not seeing the pets anymore, and rarely any WW now.
    I cant comment on pvp i am no expert on them, but i am not seeing them either.

    They don't have quite the same surviability in vMA as they used to (sorcs, nb's, and even now templars have a much easier time in vma). When in WW form regardless of which morph you choose, you take significantly more damage now than before. Prior to scalebreaker, your direwolves would draw agro, thus reducing damage you were taking directly. Now, direwolves are not targetable, all enemies target you, not your direwolves, it is a significantly noticable damage increase you take in there with packleader (minor maim doesn't do *** in vMA), and even worse with beserker morph. This, in conjunction with your heals healing for less yet costing significantly more will make it more problematic in vMA.
    I used to run weapon damage pots in all stages except for stage 5. Now I run tristat pots in most stages because I need the magicka return so I can heal. I then had to choose the other heal morph to gain major brutality, reducing my healing further. I have only run vMA a handful of times since scalebreaker now because I'm going to have to rework things to go for score runs. It is not fun at the moment. I find myself dead from things that should not kill me simply because i had to cast 2 heals, then was outa mag so dead.

    Yes its true , only way to get more survivability is put more cp into dots so the claw of life sustain you a bit more and wear some mighty chudan to be tankier. Then you certainly wont go into high score with this but you live :)
  • cmvet
    cmvet
    ✭✭✭
    cmvet wrote: »
    So what was the logic into nerfing the light attacks by 25% and gutting the pets ? Why even using the morph it brings absolutely nothing at all ! The tank already apply minor defile .The dps of the ww is at the very best 70k(not reaching that myself) max parse i seen on trial dummy, while other dps classes top 100K+ now that with best gear possible in both case . There's no reason to bring a werewolf to a trial or a vet dungeon , anything else will perform better. They still have better survivability for solo content like vma but that's an extremely niche role. I am not seeing the pets anymore, and rarely any WW now.
    I cant comment on pvp i am no expert on them, but i am not seeing them either.

    They don't have quite the same surviability in vMA as they used to (sorcs, nb's, and even now templars have a much easier time in vma). When in WW form regardless of which morph you choose, you take significantly more damage now than before. Prior to scalebreaker, your direwolves would draw agro, thus reducing damage you were taking directly. Now, direwolves are not targetable, all enemies target you, not your direwolves, it is a significantly noticable damage increase you take in there with packleader (minor maim doesn't do *** in vMA), and even worse with beserker morph. This, in conjunction with your heals healing for less yet costing significantly more will make it more problematic in vMA.
    I used to run weapon damage pots in all stages except for stage 5. Now I run tristat pots in most stages because I need the magicka return so I can heal. I then had to choose the other heal morph to gain major brutality, reducing my healing further. I have only run vMA a handful of times since scalebreaker now because I'm going to have to rework things to go for score runs. It is not fun at the moment. I find myself dead from things that should not kill me simply because i had to cast 2 heals, then was outa mag so dead.

    Yes its true , only way to get more survivability is put more cp into dots so the claw of life sustain you a bit more and wear some mighty chudan to be tankier. Then you certainly wont go into high score with this but you live :)

    Yeah, have always run chudan on my vma builds. Prior to scalebreaker, I would routinely be between 550k-570k, now i have to build for survivability and not dps. Chudan was the only "tanky" set I wore prior to scalebreaker, now I run chudan and a second "tanky-ish" set. Still playing with it.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Katahdin wrote: »

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    That is a rediculous requirement. You don't need 75K dps to complete anything

    Please explain that to the trial guilds who have that requirement :-D
    I'm using my stam dk now and it's quite nice as a ww extra range and in pve I hit for 86.2k..
    Cp 1490
    Xbox-EU-AD
    Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Qbiken wrote: »

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    ZOS will never seperate PvE and PvP and it makes no sense to do so at this point. Werewolf is dead, unless you zerg or get carried by a group......

    Just let ww go

    I'm still having fun with it in pvp while soloing. I it's harder but still having fun.
    Cp 1490
    Xbox-EU-AD
    Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Skoomah wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    ZOS will never seperate PvE and PvP and it makes no sense to do so at this point. Werewolf is dead, unless you zerg or get carried by a group......

    Just let ww go

    I'm still having fun with it in pvp while soloing. I it's harder but still having fun.

    I've tried ww in both group and solo this patch. Werewolf is still viable for seal clubbing (if you're into that, which I'm really not) and can work in group, but zos killed the uniqueness of the playstyle this patch for me.

    Werewolf just doesn't bring any unique features to PvP anymore. I used to be cautious whenever I saw another werewolf in PvP last patch (and before that as well), but now whenever I see one I know they're free AP. I've even managed to win 1v1 against werewolf builds with imperial physique (while being on non ww setups without physique), which was unthinkable before Scalebreaker, and frankly, I don't think one should be able to survive against a ww with physique (even a mediocre one). I can un irocnically outsustain a werewolf with physique and since their damage is laughable, I barely have to focus on my own survivability.

    Werewolfs aren't a threat anymore in my eyes, and I won't be playing ww unless zos starts listen to feedback from the tiny part of the player base that actually have knowledge about the playstyle.

    Humanoid builds outperform werewolves in every way. Offensively and defensively.

    Higher damage. More ways to dish out damage, melee and ranged, direct and dot.

    Higher healing. More ways to heal, self and group, direct and hot.

    Higher sustain. Skills are less costly and do more damage, healing, and provide more utility. So overall sustain is way better and more efficient.

    Higher mobility. No need to feed the timer so can reposition, run, hide, and wait for the right moment to attack. Can actually cleanse CC to keep up the flow of movement.

    Werewolves don’t provide short term overwhelming burst damage to take down tanky targets anymore. And it’s clear that the longer you stay in werewolf form the more you lose out on the benefits of humanoid form I just listed above.

    And don’t forget... good werewolf builds have always required players to be weak in humanoid form. Any good werewolf knows that to maximize werewolf power... the trade off is crappy humanoid power.

    All bad. No good. Why play werewolf again?

    Good points .

    TBH , I feel humanroid is EZ mode this patch lol .
    I changed all my 6 classes WW back to the humanroid .

    Im not gonna play WW anymore , I believe ZOS will not buff WW again base on low MMR BG results .

  • cmvet
    cmvet
    ✭✭✭
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Skoomah wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    ZOS will never seperate PvE and PvP and it makes no sense to do so at this point. Werewolf is dead, unless you zerg or get carried by a group......

    Just let ww go

    I'm still having fun with it in pvp while soloing. I it's harder but still having fun.

    I've tried ww in both group and solo this patch. Werewolf is still viable for seal clubbing (if you're into that, which I'm really not) and can work in group, but zos killed the uniqueness of the playstyle this patch for me.

    Werewolf just doesn't bring any unique features to PvP anymore. I used to be cautious whenever I saw another werewolf in PvP last patch (and before that as well), but now whenever I see one I know they're free AP. I've even managed to win 1v1 against werewolf builds with imperial physique (while being on non ww setups without physique), which was unthinkable before Scalebreaker, and frankly, I don't think one should be able to survive against a ww with physique (even a mediocre one). I can un irocnically outsustain a werewolf with physique and since their damage is laughable, I barely have to focus on my own survivability.

    Werewolfs aren't a threat anymore in my eyes, and I won't be playing ww unless zos starts listen to feedback from the tiny part of the player base that actually have knowledge about the playstyle.

    Humanoid builds outperform werewolves in every way. Offensively and defensively.

    Higher damage. More ways to dish out damage, melee and ranged, direct and dot.

    Higher healing. More ways to heal, self and group, direct and hot.

    Higher sustain. Skills are less costly and do more damage, healing, and provide more utility. So overall sustain is way better and more efficient.

    Higher mobility. No need to feed the timer so can reposition, run, hide, and wait for the right moment to attack. Can actually cleanse CC to keep up the flow of movement.

    Werewolves don’t provide short term overwhelming burst damage to take down tanky targets anymore. And it’s clear that the longer you stay in werewolf form the more you lose out on the benefits of humanoid form I just listed above.

    And don’t forget... good werewolf builds have always required players to be weak in humanoid form. Any good werewolf knows that to maximize werewolf power... the trade off is crappy humanoid power.

    All bad. No good. Why play werewolf again?

    Good points .

    TBH , I feel humanroid is EZ mode this patch lol .
    I changed all my 6 classes WW back to the humanroid .

    Im not gonna play WW anymore , I believe ZOS will not buff WW again base on low MMR BG results .

    Similar, I went from 5 ww characters down to 2 just so I can play around with various builds. So far I'm not liking the PVP builds I've come up with. The one that works the best in NG's and non-cp cyrodiil is Steadfast hero with curse eater, then a dps monster set. But it is still so much weaker than before.

    I'm sure the devs really thought "Werewolf should feel 25% stronger, but cost 25% more" was a good way to go and they could make it happen. They didn't realize that ww gets no weapon passives, nor passive for slotting specific skills, so what cost 25% more in ww form is actually more like 25% weaker than in human form, not stronger.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    cmvet wrote: »
    I'm sure the devs really thought "Werewolf should feel 25% stronger, but cost 25% more" was a good way to go and they could make it happen. They didn't realize that ww gets no weapon passives, nor passive for slotting specific skills, so what cost 25% more in ww form is actually more like 25% weaker than in human form, not stronger.

    None of my werewolves feel ANY% stronger than my regular forms. And when you add the damage/cost bonuses from Dual Wield passives (Slaughter/Expert/Fury/Ruffian/Twin Blade and Blunt) that werewolf doesn't get, then your regular form does way more damage anyway.....and without the werewolf penalties of no Purge, extra poison damage taken, limited and costly heal, etc. So I have no idea how they came up with this "stronger feeling" nonsense. Cost definitely doesn't equal benefit in this case.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Szende
    Szende
    Maybe WW's need something snare removal? I wish to play solo pvp with a werewolf so much, but its simply impossible with the current Werewolf.

    Maybe found somekind of balance, like keeping in WWform longer, even permanently? Of course its makes disable talk with any NPC or use any wayshrine or something, but for open world, would be so good keeping up a useful Werewolf form and really HUNTING for players as a solo player. Guess somekind of "permanent" werewolf form and any kind of snare removal makes Werewolf PvP possible in Cyrodiil for solo players too. Maybe i wish too much with this, but worth a shot.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I am just gonna leave it here:
    On last ESO live Twitch stream, Gina told us that new PTS starts on Monday (16th of September). Gina also told us that as soon as they will post new PTS Patch Notes, they will also do another ESO live twitch stream explaining the changes and basically do a review a new PTS Patch Notes.

    This is our opportunity to basically ask ZOS:
    What is the intended use case for Werewolf in ESO in the eyes of developers ? And why exactly combat team thinks that current state of Werewolf is a relatively good state balance-wise.

    So I count on you. The more of us will ask this on twitch chat during the stream the more chance we have to get an live, more honest answer.
  • Marcus_Cassius
    Marcus_Cassius
    Soul Shriven
    cmvet wrote: »
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Skoomah wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »

    In pve my dps has dropped from 75k dps to 60k dps so I can't do most vet raids anymore since my dps doesn't Reach the requirements so I stick to dungeon runs and pvp.

    big mistake of Zos, that they increased general dps to a very huge values.
    it caused all non-dlc dungeons and craglorn trials to became easy af, and some veteran dlc dungeons and trials possible only mith maximizing everything to the roof.

    And, worst thing, that it touched pvp to cause same problem as was before they added 50% cut for damage and healing for battle spirit.

    But, it isn't worth... Werewolf of Vampire are things mainly for PvP, which should be basement for it's design.
    And pve balancing should rely at this not at numbers appeared in game because of broken roof for pve dps.
    That's why 75 or 60k even not for werewolf are not right things if they owerpower them in pvp.

    And mechanics in pve, which designed for these numbers are also garbage.

    Werewolf and vampire are not designed for "mainly pvp". Sure they are not a class per say, but you wouldn't go and say some class is designed for mainly pvp. They should be usable and designed around using them in all content. Pve and pvp. 75k on a werewolf is fine, a bit low actually for some pve hm trials, but they are not overpowered in pvp or pve at all. If you think they are, you need to learn to counter them and wear them down. Its rather easy to do now that their heal cost is so extreme and that bleeds have been nerfed.

    Also, regarding dungeons and trials. Mechanics that require a dps rush are fine, its supposed to be challenging.
    The issue i have with the dungeons and trials is when the game is in such a broken state that the mechanics break, refuse to show up, cause invisible aoes, invincible adds, targeting issues, bosses aoes don't go where they are displayed, full out crashes... the list goes on.

    u're not objective here.
    even your nickname shows this.
    sorry dude, but this dancing around both pve and pvp at the same time without prioritizing causes such problems as this game got in this patch. and causes no enjoy for me for example to play as ww because it stays crap for a bunch of years partly because of this.
    pvp, than pve here, because of the combat balance issues.

    ZOS will never seperate PvE and PvP and it makes no sense to do so at this point. Werewolf is dead, unless you zerg or get carried by a group......

    Just let ww go

    I'm still having fun with it in pvp while soloing. I it's harder but still having fun.

    I've tried ww in both group and solo this patch. Werewolf is still viable for seal clubbing (if you're into that, which I'm really not) and can work in group, but zos killed the uniqueness of the playstyle this patch for me.

    Werewolf just doesn't bring any unique features to PvP anymore. I used to be cautious whenever I saw another werewolf in PvP last patch (and before that as well), but now whenever I see one I know they're free AP. I've even managed to win 1v1 against werewolf builds with imperial physique (while being on non ww setups without physique), which was unthinkable before Scalebreaker, and frankly, I don't think one should be able to survive against a ww with physique (even a mediocre one). I can un irocnically outsustain a werewolf with physique and since their damage is laughable, I barely have to focus on my own survivability.

    Werewolfs aren't a threat anymore in my eyes, and I won't be playing ww unless zos starts listen to feedback from the tiny part of the player base that actually have knowledge about the playstyle.

    Humanoid builds outperform werewolves in every way. Offensively and defensively.

    Higher damage. More ways to dish out damage, melee and ranged, direct and dot.

    Higher healing. More ways to heal, self and group, direct and hot.

    Higher sustain. Skills are less costly and do more damage, healing, and provide more utility. So overall sustain is way better and more efficient.

    Higher mobility. No need to feed the timer so can reposition, run, hide, and wait for the right moment to attack. Can actually cleanse CC to keep up the flow of movement.

    Werewolves don’t provide short term overwhelming burst damage to take down tanky targets anymore. And it’s clear that the longer you stay in werewolf form the more you lose out on the benefits of humanoid form I just listed above.

    And don’t forget... good werewolf builds have always required players to be weak in humanoid form. Any good werewolf knows that to maximize werewolf power... the trade off is crappy humanoid power.

    All bad. No good. Why play werewolf again?

    Good points .

    TBH , I feel humanroid is EZ mode this patch lol .
    I changed all my 6 classes WW back to the humanroid .

    Im not gonna play WW anymore , I believe ZOS will not buff WW again base on low MMR BG results .

    Similar, I went from 5 ww characters down to 2 just so I can play around with various builds. So far I'm not liking the PVP builds I've come up with. The one that works the best in NG's and non-cp cyrodiil is Steadfast hero with curse eater, then a dps monster set. But it is still so much weaker than before.

    I'm sure the devs really thought "Werewolf should feel 25% stronger, but cost 25% more" was a good way to go and they could make it happen. They didn't realize that ww gets no weapon passives, nor passive for slotting specific skills, so what cost 25% more in ww form is actually more like 25% weaker than in human form, not stronger.

    Right now WW has considerable drawbacks and no advantages at all. Forget using one in raid you will be at the bottom of the parse while the same character with normal build will be near top. You also of course get no range , really a considerable disadvantage, that alone is already making them non viable for lot of content. They should at least shine in melee.
    In pvp when i play my night blade and see one i am happy cause it will be an easy target and everyone knows that, they go down very quickly , they are the furry clowns of the battlefield with their two *** doggos .
    Only niche role i can still see is rushing some old dungeon solo or in a pickup group. Else they really have absolutely nothing for them.
    It's sad you have to harass the devs in a twitch about this to try to make them listen. It's so obvious they are useless it should be acknowledged by now.
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