[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

Mr_Wolfe

No tab targeting on consoles. That was always a LTP issue though. You deal with a swarm of pets the same way you deal with a swarm of adds when you need to focus the boss. If a player can't do that, it's on them--but all those players whine on the forums. (And I suspect a few of them might be devs, given the sheer maliciousness of this latest update.)

FenrisWolf1136

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

No tab targeting on consoles. That was always a LTP issue though. You deal with a swarm of pets the same way you deal with a swarm of adds when you need to focus the boss. If a player can't do that, it's on them--but all those players whine on the forums. (And I suspect a few of them might be devs, given the sheer maliciousness of this latest update.)

Press and hold R3... allows you to hard target. Not as convenient but still works. (For ps4 anyways. Not sure about xbox)

cmvet

Qbiken wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

@Nefas has chimed in a few times in the werewolf threads since pts started and new reps announced.

But who knows how frequently the reps actually get to relay the information and feedback they have gathered.

He appears to agree with the nerfs and hasn't played WW in years, so really he's the opposite of a WW class rep.

you can ask any "pve-rep" and they´ll all say werewolf is overperforming to a certain degree, even though werewolf has never been used in any serious raiding scene.....

Really sad that none of the reps (or devs) have little to no insight in neither the PvE or PvP perspective of werewolf, hence why the feedback and responses to werewolf get so skewed.

If werewolves are currently over performing in PVE i guess I'm playing them wrong. Name me a PVE trial where a group is specifically looking for werewolves because they over perform compared to other classes. A werewolf dps is about 15-20k lower than current stam classes running in trials. You cant tank as a ww, and you can only heal yourself, so dps it is.

If you are talking solo pve then I'm not sure how we "over perform". Yes we can be tank in VMA, yet ww scores are significantly less on the leaderboards. A Sorc ww is the highest dps, yet even in fast flawless runs my scores are 50k lower than other sorcs running vma. How are the other sorcs not "over performing"?

Tommy_The_Gun

cmvet wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

@Nefas has chimed in a few times in the werewolf threads since pts started and new reps announced.

But who knows how frequently the reps actually get to relay the information and feedback they have gathered.

He appears to agree with the nerfs and hasn't played WW in years, so really he's the opposite of a WW class rep.

you can ask any "pve-rep" and they´ll all say werewolf is overperforming to a certain degree, even though werewolf has never been used in any serious raiding scene.....

Really sad that none of the reps (or devs) have little to no insight in neither the PvE or PvP perspective of werewolf, hence why the feedback and responses to werewolf get so skewed.

If werewolves are currently over performing in PVE i guess I'm playing them wrong. Name me a PVE trial where a group is specifically looking for werewolves because they over perform compared to other classes. A werewolf dps is about 15-20k lower than current stam classes running in trials. You cant tank as a ww, and you can only heal yourself, so dps it is.

If you are talking solo pve then I'm not sure how we "over perform". Yes we can be tank in VMA, yet ww scores are significantly less on the leaderboards. A Sorc ww is the highest dps, yet even in fast flawless runs my scores are 50k lower than other sorcs running vma. How are the other sorcs not "over performing"?

Unfortunately, when it comes to class reps, most of them are blinded by "elitism". They only look at WW from a perspective of Target dummy & Blood Moon Set (light attack speed set). Even though WW is doing (like you have said) 15 - 20K less dmg, on average, often it is 2x times less than non-ww. And that is really sad. WW absolutely have to use specific sets to even come close to a "DPS threshold" to be considered "OK". Non other "classes" have to do so. They have plenty of easy to get gear available to them. Looking at things only from one side is never good. I mean ZOS did this, this patch (they made balance changes looking at the game from only one perspective). Just look at the reception of the patch. Pretty much everyone that is reasonable thinks it is one of the worst update (balance wise).

Small bonus: Have you tried to do one-bar sorc DPS build, based on overload & Blood Moon Set (WW light attack speed set) ? The results may surprise you as you will be able to deal similar (or maybe higher) dps than WW using only one bar with no "classic" ulti. Sounds familiar right ?

Mr_Wolfe

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

No tab targeting on consoles. That was always a LTP issue though. You deal with a swarm of pets the same way you deal with a swarm of adds when you need to focus the boss. If a player can't do that, it's on them--but all those players whine on the forums. (And I suspect a few of them might be devs, given the sheer maliciousness of this latest update.)

Press and hold R3... allows you to hard target. Not as convenient but still works. (For ps4 anyways. Not sure about xbox)

Yeah, I know about that and it does work on Xbox, but there's no way to cycle through targets the way you can on PC. They get all the training wheels nifty features. I'm curious if the non-targetable direwolves will still block right stick targeting, or if you'll be able to highlight/lock-on to werewolf players through them now.

As for DPS, like I've said before I don't know how guys like Alcast got the numbers they claimed. The dev's are really missing the mark by continuing to treat werewolf like a class, when it's much more limited than that. Werewolves have an extremely narrow toolkit compared to any other build in the game and that needs to be taken into account when trying to balance them.

FenrisWolf1136

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

No tab targeting on consoles. That was always a LTP issue though. You deal with a swarm of pets the same way you deal with a swarm of adds when you need to focus the boss. If a player can't do that, it's on them--but all those players whine on the forums. (And I suspect a few of them might be devs, given the sheer maliciousness of this latest update.)

Press and hold R3... allows you to hard target. Not as convenient but still works. (For ps4 anyways. Not sure about xbox)

Yeah, I know about that and it does work on Xbox, but there's no way to cycle through targets the way you can on PC. They get all the training wheels nifty features. I'm curious if the non-targetable direwolves will still block right stick targeting, or if you'll be able to highlight/lock-on to werewolf players through them now.

As for DPS, like I've said before I don't know how guys like Alcast got the numbers they claimed. The dev's are really missing the mark by continuing to treat werewolf like a class, when it's much more limited than that. Werewolves have an extremely narrow toolkit compared to any other build in the game and that needs to be taken into account when trying to balance them.

I agree. Most of the cries for werewolf nerfs seem to come from those that don't play the builds or if they do, its not very long. We don't hit as hard, are severely limited, and lose 60% (rough estimate) of any dps in a second just by falling into human form. Yet we get called cheese because we don't have the skills for a 2 bar style rotation that hits 25k + under normal class builds and don't have near the range.

Add to it no response or even a "hey we see this" from the devs this pts. Bugs that don't get fixed for years but new loot crates every season. Really instills confidence in the direction the game is heading.

cmvet

I would like to see some improvements in our transformation degradation. I hate popping out of ww due to a "unusually long load time", or hell a normally long load screen in vMA when I grab a chest, or a random load screen in cyrodiil when I walk near a keep ect. They should just make the degradation stop while you are in load screens similar to how it does when you die and are waiting to be resurrected.

TiZzA93

Im a console player and im truly disappointed with this patch i love my WW character and it is in no way OP compared to every other dps spec. Ww is my lowest dps, my stamcro, magblade, stamsorc, magdk all hit alot higher. Pvp u just get focused by everyone so u have to build tankier but then u loose some damge, seems to me ww got nerfed because under 50 cyrodil/bgs.

ccfeeling

TiZzA93 wrote: »

Im a console player and im truly disappointed with this patch i love my WW character and it is in no way OP compared to every other dps spec. Ww is my lowest dps, my stamcro, magblade, stamsorc, magdk all hit alot higher. Pvp u just get focused by everyone so u have to build tankier but then u loose some damge, seems to me ww got nerfed because under 50 cyrodil/bgs.

Pvp > pve
Adapt

Mr_Wolfe

ccfeeling wrote: »

Pvp > pve
Adapt

Disagree entirely. If I wanted a laggy circle jerk with no dialogue I'd go to a swinger's club.

PVP is only a small fraction of the content in this game and a good portion of the user base isn't interested in it. It's never been the main draw of ESO and the devs' disproportionate focus on it is another of their many boggling decisions.

Aznox

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Pvp > pve
Adapt

Disagree entirely. If I wanted a laggy circle jerk with no dialogue I'd go to a swinger's club.

PVP is only a small fraction of the content in this game and a good portion of the user base isn't interested in it. It's never been the main draw of ESO and the devs' disproportionate focus on it is another of their many boggling decisions.

As someone who spends 95+% of his playtime doing PvP activities, i really don't know where you get the feeling that devs have "a disproportionate focus on PvP".

If i had to throw a wild guess, i'd say that PvP represents 20-30% of overall play time, and less that 10% of overall dev time.

Jaraal

TiZzA93 wrote: »

seems to me ww got nerfed because under 50 cyrodil/bgs.

TBH I think it got nerfed because a few folks were claiming that WW turned vMA into "easy mode". Obviously they aren't going to adjust vMA, so I believe they actively nerf any situation players stumble upon that even hints at trivializing their pet arena project.

Mr_Wolfe

Aznox wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Pvp > pve
Adapt

Disagree entirely. If I wanted a laggy circle jerk with no dialogue I'd go to a swinger's club.

PVP is only a small fraction of the content in this game and a good portion of the user base isn't interested in it. It's never been the main draw of ESO and the devs' disproportionate focus on it is another of their many boggling decisions.

As someone who spends 95+% of his playtime doing PvP activities, i really don't know where you get the feeling that devs have "a disproportionate focus on PvP".

If i had to throw a wild guess, i'd say that PvP represents 20-30% of overall play time, and less that 10% of overall dev time.

From the fact that complaints from PvPers drive the majority of balance changes in this game, while PvE related feedback is pointedly ignored. Changes are frequently made based on PvP feedback with no consideration for how those changes will affect PvE. Meanwhile, there are major, progress-halting bugs in PvE dungeons and questlines that have gone unfixed and largely un-adressed for years.

Jaraal wrote: »

TiZzA93 wrote: »

seems to me ww got nerfed because under 50 cyrodil/bgs.

TBH I think it got nerfed because a few folks were claiming that WW turned vMA into "easy mode". Obviously they aren't going to adjust vMA, so I believe they actively nerf any situation players stumble upon that even hints at trivializing their pet arena project.

If only it had.

I'll admit it's pure speculation as to why the devs made the changes they have. (Dementia, maybe?) But for my money there were a lot more posts and threads complaining about pack leaders in BG than there were people claiming WW made vet maelstrom too easy.

cmvet

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Pvp > pve
Adapt

Disagree entirely. If I wanted a laggy circle jerk with no dialogue I'd go to a swinger's club.

PVP is only a small fraction of the content in this game and a good portion of the user base isn't interested in it. It's never been the main draw of ESO and the devs' disproportionate focus on it is another of their many boggling decisions.

As someone who spends 95+% of his playtime doing PvP activities, i really don't know where you get the feeling that devs have "a disproportionate focus on PvP".

If i had to throw a wild guess, i'd say that PvP represents 20-30% of overall play time, and less that 10% of overall dev time.

From the fact that complaints from PvPers drive the majority of balance changes in this game, while PvE related feedback is pointedly ignored. Changes are frequently made based on PvP feedback with no consideration for how those changes will affect PvE. Meanwhile, there are major, progress-halting bugs in PvE dungeons and questlines that have gone unfixed and largely un-adressed for years.

Jaraal wrote: »

TiZzA93 wrote: »

seems to me ww got nerfed because under 50 cyrodil/bgs.

TBH I think it got nerfed because a few folks were claiming that WW turned vMA into "easy mode". Obviously they aren't going to adjust vMA, so I believe they actively nerf any situation players stumble upon that even hints at trivializing their pet arena project.

If only it had.

I'll admit it's pure speculation as to why the devs made the changes they have. (Dementia, maybe?) But for my money there were a lot more posts and threads complaining about pack leaders in BG than there were people claiming WW made vet maelstrom too easy.

So I will be the first to admit that WW makes vMA very easy as I have made posts about it and shown videos on non-ideal builds doing it. You can take an unskilled player like myself, give me a 1 bar, tanky dps machine, and I can ignore a lot of vMA mechanics by turning it into a dps race. But, i guarantee these change were not because of 1 single PVE aspect of the game.

A very big area where WW was dominant is <50 and non-cp Cyrodiil and in BG's, when dealing with people who don't know how to counter a WW. Where are a lot of new players PVPing? <50 and non-cp cyrodiil and BG's. What do new pvp players not like? Getting rolled by a tanky dps machine that they can not figure out a counter for. What is a WW in those areas? A Tanky DPS machine with minimal resource issues. Who does ZOS cater to and who cries the loudest? New players. Thus WW pummeling in this patch.

Mr_Wolfe

You have a good point about new players coming in and getting wrecked by werewolves in <50 BGs and no-cp cyrodiil, though I'd argue that's less about werewolves themselves and more about a difference in skill. In my experience, werewolf takes a lot of work to make viable, especially because it lacks the tools so many other classes have. Highly skilled players 'slumming it' are liable to wreck their competition no matter what they play. Not to mention that a lot of those angry posts were from single players in a PUG group who got matched up against a coordinated team.

As for vet maelstrom, I've spent too much time swearing and punching my couch to this week to agree with you there. Just being a werewolf does not make vMA 'easy.' It's still frustratingly hard even for a werewolf with a pretty good build and literally years of practice. Again, if you're finding it easy, I'd say that has more to do with your skill as a player. I'd be curious to see what you're running though.

cmvet

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

You have a good point about new players coming in and getting wrecked by werewolves in <50 BGs and no-cp cyrodiil, though I'd argue that's less about werewolves themselves and more about a difference in skill. In my experience, werewolf takes a lot of work to make viable, especially because it lacks the tools so many other classes have. Highly skilled players 'slumming it' are liable to wreck their competition no matter what they play. Not to mention that a lot of those angry posts were from single players in a PUG group who got matched up against a coordinated team.

As for vet maelstrom, I've spent too much time swearing and punching my couch to this week to agree with you there. Just being a werewolf does not make vMA 'easy.' It's still frustratingly hard even for a werewolf with a pretty good build and literally years of practice. Again, if you're finding it easy, I'd say that has more to do with your skill as a player. I'd be curious to see what you're running though.

Generally I run 2 dps sets and a tanky set. I use Chudan as my tanky set as it is just that good for a WW in vMA. I prefer relequen and Tzogvin as my dps sets, but have done it with hundings and viper (viper really is only like 1k dps less than bloodmoon or tzogvin), and I'm sure automaton would be good too.
I prefer doing it on my woodelf dk because i do really like the extra 2 meter range (I am looking forward to that change in buildbreaker update) for my attacks but my highest point runs have been on my orc sorc. Usually can flawless around 560k (still much less than the good sorc builds out there). I've run an argonian warden (full run video), and a kahjit necro through pretty easy as well. You do still have to know some of the mechanics, and avoid the random lag, rng BS that pops up in vMA. During the event it was so laggy that stage 7 made my wife laugh because of the words flying out my mouth. Here is a few tips (short vid)I posted.

Mr_Wolfe

Thanks, appreciate the info!

I've been running vMA on my argonian stamblade. He's been my main in both PvE and PvP for several years, and the only one of my characters who's even close to being ready to tackle vMA. So far the easiest time I've had was wearing Spriggan's, Automaton, and Iceheart, though I usually carry a few extra sets to swap around if I'm having trouble on a certain area. Unfortunately I don't have the right pieces to be able to run Chudan's with medium armor and still have a 5/1/1 setup.

Don't think I've ever cleared without dying 15+ times, let alone getting flawless--though this last time I made it to the last stage with only a couple deaths before getting my vitality bonus wiped out by a really bad string of lag/desync issues.

cmvet

yeah, sometimes you will get a bad run or lag/desync. Try running viper or relequen instead of spriggan, and use the lover for the penetration if you need it. I now run shadow mundus when i use tzogvin's.

When buildbreaker is released on ps4 I'll see how dpS and vma compare to current with exact same gear. I know I, like everyone else will have to change ulti morph to beserker for any decent PVE damage. I will miss the direwolves holding ago for me. It might make farming sewer bosses a bit more difficult as well.

Mr_Wolfe

I'm currently running Lover, though I don't actually have a full set of relequen. Got tired of farming it after the billionth PUG group or so.

FoulSnowpaw

1. Werewolf animations take way too long compared to all other "instant cast" abilities.
2.

Qbiken

Update #2: (PvP related)

I´ll start this comment by asking a simple question:

What´s the point of playing werewolf in PvP when you barely have enough single target pressure to take down a single opponent in a 1v1? I´m even running two damage sets in PvP and all my single target DoT-damage is outhealed by activating Vigor once. And god forbid if my opponent decides to run something like Troll-king......

Werewolf´s nische used to be the ability to take down tanky targets and bringing that high single target pressure that no one else could, and now werewolf has nothing.

* No damage since werewolf DoT´s have been nerfed to the ground (which is ironic since everyone else have DoT´s hiting for more than twice as much). Add reduced damage on light attacks as well. I do less damage in werewolf form than I do outside of it. Just make the werewolf bleed ignore resistance again.

* No Group-utility, still. Because we haven´t been asking for werewolfs to bring good stuff to a group for over a year already...

* No self-healing to speak of, because it was such a brilliant idea (/sarcasm) to make the werewolf heal (a magicka based heal on a stamina base playstyle) the 2nd most expensive skill in the game, while nerfing it´s potency at the same time. What makes it even more ironic is that everyone else got buffed heals through vigor and rapid regen..........

* Add all the bugs and malfunctioning mechanics werewolf have and theyér in such a sad state that you´re better of playing literally anything over werewolf if you want to have a good experience in PvP.


Instead of listening to the people who actually play werewolf in PvP, ZOS decides to listen to people that are too incompetent to deal with them......

I´m still laughing at the "Werewolf should feel 25% more powerful......." - statement from the patch notes. It´s just a bad joke at this point, and just shows that ZOS either:

a) Doesn´t play their own game
b) Doesn´t listen to the veteran/experienced part of the player base
c) Both of the above

ZOS has once again managed to kill Another unique playstyle for PvP just to cater to a crying/complaining casual audience, that couldn´t bother L2P in order to deal with werewolfs in PvP. I personally think that werewolf should be so powerful that you can barely survive in a 1v1 against them in PvP. It´s a werewolf for god sake.........

If you´re reading this KD9, I agree with you, delete werewolf from the game or make it a cosmetic option only. Because there´s no reason to play it in PvP atm.

scirocco2

Overtuned for pvp always top dps beating every othere spec by tons

Qbiken

scirocco2 wrote: »

Overtuned for pvp always top dps beating every othere spec by tons

Only time werewolf was overtuned was in Murkmire when enchants was bugged and procced from the werewolf bleed, otherwise werewolf has never been overtuned.

In PvE werewolf has never outparsed a non werewolf stamina class, and on live, every single non werewolf option out dps werewolf.

Do your research before posting false stuff.....

Swen_von_Walhallion

Qbiken wrote: »

Update #2: (PvP related)

I´ll start this comment by asking a simple question:

What´s the point of playing werewolf in PvP when you barely have enough single target pressure to take down a single opponent in a 1v1? I´m even running two damage sets in PvP and all my single target DoT-damage is outhealed by activating Vigor once. And god forbid if my opponent decides to run something like Troll-king......

Werewolf´s nische used to be the ability to take down tanky targets and bringing that high single target pressure that no one else could, and now werewolf has nothing.

* No damage since werewolf DoT´s have been nerfed to the ground (which is ironic since everyone else have DoT´s hiting for more than twice as much). Add reduced damage on light attacks as well. I do less damage in werewolf form than I do outside of it. Just make the werewolf bleed ignore resistance again.

* No Group-utility, still. Because we haven´t been asking for werewolfs to bring good stuff to a group for over a year already...

* No self-healing to speak of, because it was such a brilliant idea (/sarcasm) to make the werewolf heal (a magicka based heal on a stamina base playstyle) the 2nd most expensive skill in the game, while nerfing it´s potency at the same time. What makes it even more ironic is that everyone else got buffed heals through vigor and rapid regen..........

* Add all the bugs and malfunctioning mechanics werewolf have and theyér in such a sad state that you´re better of playing literally anything over werewolf if you want to have a good experience in PvP.


Instead of listening to the people who actually play werewolf in PvP, ZOS decides to listen to people that are too incompetent to deal with them......

I´m still laughing at the "Werewolf should feel 25% more powerful......." - statement from the patch notes. It´s just a bad joke at this point, and just shows that ZOS either:

a) Doesn´t play their own game
b) Doesn´t listen to the veteran/experienced part of the player base
c) Both of the above

ZOS has once again managed to kill Another unique playstyle for PvP just to cater to a crying/complaining casual audience, that couldn´t bother L2P in order to deal with werewolfs in PvP. I personally think that werewolf should be so powerful that you can barely survive in a 1v1 against them in PvP. It´s a werewolf for god sake.........

If you´re reading this KD9, I agree with you, delete werewolf from the game or make it a cosmetic option only. Because there´s no reason to play it in PvP atm.

you forgot add one thing, WW ulti is most expensive ulti in game, bc show me ulti where you must spend ove 20 skilpoint for fully work ....

Qbiken

Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Update #2: (PvP related)

I´ll start this comment by asking a simple question:

What´s the point of playing werewolf in PvP when you barely have enough single target pressure to take down a single opponent in a 1v1? I´m even running two damage sets in PvP and all my single target DoT-damage is outhealed by activating Vigor once. And god forbid if my opponent decides to run something like Troll-king......

Werewolf´s nische used to be the ability to take down tanky targets and bringing that high single target pressure that no one else could, and now werewolf has nothing.

* No damage since werewolf DoT´s have been nerfed to the ground (which is ironic since everyone else have DoT´s hiting for more than twice as much). Add reduced damage on light attacks as well. I do less damage in werewolf form than I do outside of it. Just make the werewolf bleed ignore resistance again.

* No Group-utility, still. Because we haven´t been asking for werewolfs to bring good stuff to a group for over a year already...

* No self-healing to speak of, because it was such a brilliant idea (/sarcasm) to make the werewolf heal (a magicka based heal on a stamina base playstyle) the 2nd most expensive skill in the game, while nerfing it´s potency at the same time. What makes it even more ironic is that everyone else got buffed heals through vigor and rapid regen..........

* Add all the bugs and malfunctioning mechanics werewolf have and theyér in such a sad state that you´re better of playing literally anything over werewolf if you want to have a good experience in PvP.


Instead of listening to the people who actually play werewolf in PvP, ZOS decides to listen to people that are too incompetent to deal with them......

I´m still laughing at the "Werewolf should feel 25% more powerful......." - statement from the patch notes. It´s just a bad joke at this point, and just shows that ZOS either:

a) Doesn´t play their own game
b) Doesn´t listen to the veteran/experienced part of the player base
c) Both of the above

ZOS has once again managed to kill Another unique playstyle for PvP just to cater to a crying/complaining casual audience, that couldn´t bother L2P in order to deal with werewolfs in PvP. I personally think that werewolf should be so powerful that you can barely survive in a 1v1 against them in PvP. It´s a werewolf for god sake.........

If you´re reading this KD9, I agree with you, delete werewolf from the game or make it a cosmetic option only. Because there´s no reason to play it in PvP atm.

you forgot add one thing, WW ulti is most expensive ulti in game, bc show me ulti where you must spend ove 20 skilpoint for fully work ....

The cost of the ultimate has never bothered me, since all my werewolf builds focus around staying in werewolf form for as long as possible. So once I transform it´s easy to stay in form as long as mechanics allows (not much you can do when you de-transform when traveling between Imperial City district to sewers or vise versa). The ultimate could cost 500 ultimate for all that I care, as long as it gives me some kind of advantage or nishced context where it can perform well. At the moment werewolf is just a way to gimp yourself in PvP.

And in terms of actual ultimate cost, Reanimate (necromancer Living Death ultimate) cost more than the Werewolf transformation, but I get your point

Skoomah

scirocco2 wrote: »

Overtuned for pvp always top dps beating every othere spec by tons

You sir... need some skooma.

Skoomah

Qbiken wrote: »

Update #2: (PvP related)

I´ll start this comment by asking a simple question:

What´s the point of playing werewolf in PvP when you barely have enough single target pressure to take down a single opponent in a 1v1? I´m even running two damage sets in PvP and all my single target DoT-damage is outhealed by activating Vigor once. And god forbid if my opponent decides to run something like Troll-king......

Werewolf´s nische used to be the ability to take down tanky targets and bringing that high single target pressure that no one else could, and now werewolf has nothing.

* No damage since werewolf DoT´s have been nerfed to the ground (which is ironic since everyone else have DoT´s hiting for more than twice as much). Add reduced damage on light attacks as well. I do less damage in werewolf form than I do outside of it. Just make the werewolf bleed ignore resistance again.

* No Group-utility, still. Because we haven´t been asking for werewolfs to bring good stuff to a group for over a year already...

* No self-healing to speak of, because it was such a brilliant idea (/sarcasm) to make the werewolf heal (a magicka based heal on a stamina base playstyle) the 2nd most expensive skill in the game, while nerfing it´s potency at the same time. What makes it even more ironic is that everyone else got buffed heals through vigor and rapid regen..........

* Add all the bugs and malfunctioning mechanics werewolf have and theyér in such a sad state that you´re better of playing literally anything over werewolf if you want to have a good experience in PvP.


Instead of listening to the people who actually play werewolf in PvP, ZOS decides to listen to people that are too incompetent to deal with them......

I´m still laughing at the "Werewolf should feel 25% more powerful......." - statement from the patch notes. It´s just a bad joke at this point, and just shows that ZOS either:

a) Doesn´t play their own game
b) Doesn´t listen to the veteran/experienced part of the player base
c) Both of the above

ZOS has once again managed to kill Another unique playstyle for PvP just to cater to a crying/complaining casual audience, that couldn´t bother L2P in order to deal with werewolfs in PvP. I personally think that werewolf should be so powerful that you can barely survive in a 1v1 against them in PvP. It´s a werewolf for god sake.........

If you´re reading this KD9, I agree with you, delete werewolf from the game or make it a cosmetic option only. Because there´s no reason to play it in PvP atm.

Good job ZOS. You really know how to make playing a werewolf fun...

cmvet

scirocco2 wrote: »

Overtuned for pvp always top dps beating every othere spec by tons

lol, learn to root ad you will never have any issues with ww in pvp. If you had issues with ww over performing in pvp then it's because you seriously didn't know how to counter them. And this is coming from someone who enjoys playing ww. If you see ww as top dps in pvp, then you must not come up against many burst builds (sorcs, nb's, stam wardens, ect). Sounds like someone i should chase around in cyrodiil

Mr_Wolfe

Qbiken wrote: »

Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Update #2: (PvP related)

I´ll start this comment by asking a simple question:

What´s the point of playing werewolf in PvP when you barely have enough single target pressure to take down a single opponent in a 1v1? I´m even running two damage sets in PvP and all my single target DoT-damage is outhealed by activating Vigor once. And god forbid if my opponent decides to run something like Troll-king......

Werewolf´s nische used to be the ability to take down tanky targets and bringing that high single target pressure that no one else could, and now werewolf has nothing.

* No damage since werewolf DoT´s have been nerfed to the ground (which is ironic since everyone else have DoT´s hiting for more than twice as much). Add reduced damage on light attacks as well. I do less damage in werewolf form than I do outside of it. Just make the werewolf bleed ignore resistance again.

* No Group-utility, still. Because we haven´t been asking for werewolfs to bring good stuff to a group for over a year already...

* No self-healing to speak of, because it was such a brilliant idea (/sarcasm) to make the werewolf heal (a magicka based heal on a stamina base playstyle) the 2nd most expensive skill in the game, while nerfing it´s potency at the same time. What makes it even more ironic is that everyone else got buffed heals through vigor and rapid regen..........

* Add all the bugs and malfunctioning mechanics werewolf have and theyér in such a sad state that you´re better of playing literally anything over werewolf if you want to have a good experience in PvP.


Instead of listening to the people who actually play werewolf in PvP, ZOS decides to listen to people that are too incompetent to deal with them......

I´m still laughing at the "Werewolf should feel 25% more powerful......." - statement from the patch notes. It´s just a bad joke at this point, and just shows that ZOS either:

a) Doesn´t play their own game
b) Doesn´t listen to the veteran/experienced part of the player base
c) Both of the above

ZOS has once again managed to kill Another unique playstyle for PvP just to cater to a crying/complaining casual audience, that couldn´t bother L2P in order to deal with werewolfs in PvP. I personally think that werewolf should be so powerful that you can barely survive in a 1v1 against them in PvP. It´s a werewolf for god sake.........

If you´re reading this KD9, I agree with you, delete werewolf from the game or make it a cosmetic option only. Because there´s no reason to play it in PvP atm.

you forgot add one thing, WW ulti is most expensive ulti in game, bc show me ulti where you must spend ove 20 skilpoint for fully work ....

The cost of the ultimate has never bothered me, since all my werewolf builds focus around staying in werewolf form for as long as possible. So once I transform it´s easy to stay in form as long as mechanics allows (not much you can do when you de-transform when traveling between Imperial City district to sewers or vise versa). The ultimate could cost 500 ultimate for all that I care, as long as it gives me some kind of advantage or nishced context where it can perform well. At the moment werewolf is just a way to gimp yourself in PvP.

And in terms of actual ultimate cost, Reanimate (necromancer Living Death ultimate) cost more than the Werewolf transformation, but I get your point

They weren't just talking about the ultimate cost. @Swen_von_Walhallion specifically mentioned the cost in skill points to use werewolf, which is a good issue to bring up. No other ultimate requires nearly that kind of investment, yet another reason why nerfing werewolf into the ground like this is beyond absurd. With all of it's drawbacks, werewolf should be the absolute best at what it does. Instead it's near the bottom.

And ZOS actually charges money for this.

Tommy_The_Gun

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

And ZOS actually charges money for this.

I really dont want to say it or even think of it, but... maybe once ZOS will add fully levelled Werewolf skill line to cash crown store, (as they already stated they will do in future), maybe they will buff WW to increases income. Currently you can "buy" fully levelled guild skill lines and those were buffed this update...