zParallaxz wrote: »You’re assuming the majority of those people have in depth knowledge of the crown store and forums. What happens to the guy who thought they made it free because he had eso plus. Now he has the chance of getting his character deleted because there is no communication from the developer that it’s a bug.VaranisArano wrote: »OUCH That is a sticky mess bug.
On the topic of deleting unauthorized necromancers- (if deleting) Will the inventory on those necros also get deleted?
For that matter, Crown Store purchases?
I mean, players ought to know better than to expect to keep their necromancer if they didnt pay for Elsweyr.
no, @ZOS_GinaBruno already stated there will be no deletes
at this point, legitimate players are just hoping for the reasonable action of access to the characters having been locked until they are properly unlocked
JamieAubrey wrote: »Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.
Damn skippy but I can't wait for the " I withdrew 2 million gold on my Necro and you guys deleted it" Threads
zParallaxz wrote: »What do you mean "bug"?
I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.
well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experienceZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.Sandman929 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...
Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?
Stop whining man, your supposed to be supporting your fellow gamer. Not trying to get their character disabled because they got something for free while you paid for it. It’s not the consumers fault, it’s on Zos.
VaranisArano wrote: »You don't "accidentally" create a necromancer when you know you don't own Elsweyr.
If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Imagine screwing up your own game this badly and then your community tries to insist it’s the players’ fault that through completely ordinary means they got some benefit.
They didn’t go scheming around hacking the game. They didn’t glitch into a wall to go snipe a boss. It was nothing different than usual, they were given the option to create a character, they made a character.
I’m sick and fkin tired of this community trying to lynch players for daring to benefit from something the game hands to them. Meanwhile all the *** show going on with performance and they say “have you called your ISP? Is your PC a potato?”
Well I’m sick a ‘fkin’ tired of people trying to use the excuse of ‘this game is bugged anyway’ to keep whatever they got by illegitimate means. What if I got the PTS gold? Would I want to keep it? Hell yes, but would I expect it to be removed? HELL YES.
But hey, it’s a bug and this game is bugged? But I’d bet you’d be one of the people complaining if I had a free 1000k in my inventory.
Why would I care? A million gold isn’t hard to make, on top of that, there’s nothing to use that gold on I couldn’t get myself. The same is true for anyone.
It’s funny you think I’d give crap about fake currency that has almost no use at max level. I didn’t when people got dozens of CP from IC, which is far less impactful than being able to make a new character. I don’t care that people got to make a necromancer without having to pay for a bogus chapter with less content than even Wrothgar offered. I’m happy for those players that can try out the new class without being ripped off.
Yes, 1 million gold, I didn’t word that right did I...I actually meant ‘one thousand million’ depending where you’re looking at it from its ‘one trillion’ which I bet you’d care just a little about since it would take a lot longer to make.
Now, you might not care about this game getting the support for the items it sells, but I find it interesting that you care enough that these people still get to ‘try it out’. I suspect that you’re no longer playing this game, not having paid for anything anyway, which makes me question, that if what happens to or supports this game is of no matter to you, why are you haunting the forums, little ghost?
I log in to do a daily, check if guildies need help, if they don’t I leave, because there is nothing to do in this game anymore. I’ve played every class, done every role, finished every trial, completed literally every single quest in the game.
And no, I still wouldn’t care if you had 100 million gold, I wouldn’t care if you have 100 billion gold. The amount is meaningless. I’ve bought every DLC, bought the chapters, and I regret giving ZOS a dime. They prove time and time again they have absolutely no priority on bugs unless it’s beneficial to players.
Anything else? Meh, why not make us wait another 6 months, then maybe they’ll try to fix it.
zParallaxz wrote: »Imagine screwing up your own game this badly and then your community tries to insist it’s the players’ fault that through completely ordinary means they got some benefit.
They didn’t go scheming around hacking the game. They didn’t glitch into a wall to go snipe a boss. It was nothing different than usual, they were given the option to create a character, they made a character.
I’m sick and fkin tired of this community trying to lynch players for daring to benefit from something the game hands to them. Meanwhile all the *** show going on with performance and they say “have you called your ISP? Is your PC a potato?”
Well I’m sick a ‘fkin’ tired of people trying to use the excuse of ‘this game is bugged anyway’ to keep whatever they got by illegitimate means. What if I got the PTS gold? Would I want to keep it? Hell yes, but would I expect it to be removed? HELL YES.
But hey, it’s a bug and this game is bugged? But I’d bet you’d be one of the people complaining if I had a free 1000k in my inventory.
Why would I care? A million gold isn’t hard to make, on top of that, there’s nothing to use that gold on I couldn’t get myself. The same is true for anyone.
It’s funny you think I’d give crap about fake currency that has almost no use at max level. I didn’t when people got dozens of CP from IC, which is far less impactful than being able to make a new character. I don’t care that people got to make a necromancer without having to pay for a bogus chapter with less content than even Wrothgar offered. I’m happy for those players that can try out the new class without being ripped off.
Yes, 1 million gold, I didn’t word that right did I...I actually meant ‘one thousand million’ depending where you’re looking at it from its ‘one trillion’ which I bet you’d care just a little about since it would take a lot longer to make.
Now, you might not care about this game getting the support for the items it sells, but I find it interesting that you care enough that these people still get to ‘try it out’. I suspect that you’re no longer playing this game, not having paid for anything anyway, which makes me question, that if what happens to or supports this game is of no matter to you, why are you haunting the forums, little ghost?
I log in to do a daily, check if guildies need help, if they don’t I leave, because there is nothing to do in this game anymore. I’ve played every class, done every role, finished every trial, completed literally every single quest in the game.
And no, I still wouldn’t care if you had 100 million gold, I wouldn’t care if you have 100 billion gold. The amount is meaningless. I’ve bought every DLC, bought the chapters, and I regret giving ZOS a dime. They prove time and time again they have absolutely no priority on bugs unless it’s beneficial to players.
Anything else? Meh, why not make us wait another 6 months, then maybe they’ll try to fix it.
That’s how I know you’ve played the game for a while. They can fix a bug like this in less than a week but it takes a couple months to fix the stuck in combat bug right? That’s why I don’t care now that the players got a freebie from their own mistake, serves them right.
If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
All exploits are a mistake on game devs' end... because some overlooked aspect of the game allows for unusual behaviors that weren't intended to work that way. That still doesn't make exploiting okay.sorry, but if it is a mistake on ZOSs end the players should NOT be punish, and should be allowed to keep their toons. If the game had the function "bug" whatever in it players should not be punished for using it. Yes, I own elsweyr,
Banning players for using an exploit = punishment.
Removing the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit = rectifying a bug. It's not a punishment.
Locking the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit until they pay = also not a punishment.
If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
zParallaxz wrote: »Imagine screwing up your own game this badly and then your community tries to insist it’s the players’ fault that through completely ordinary means they got some benefit.
They didn’t go scheming around hacking the game. They didn’t glitch into a wall to go snipe a boss. It was nothing different than usual, they were given the option to create a character, they made a character.
I’m sick and fkin tired of this community trying to lynch players for daring to benefit from something the game hands to them. Meanwhile all the *** show going on with performance and they say “have you called your ISP? Is your PC a potato?”
Well I’m sick a ‘fkin’ tired of people trying to use the excuse of ‘this game is bugged anyway’ to keep whatever they got by illegitimate means. What if I got the PTS gold? Would I want to keep it? Hell yes, but would I expect it to be removed? HELL YES.
But hey, it’s a bug and this game is bugged? But I’d bet you’d be one of the people complaining if I had a free 1000k in my inventory.
Why would I care? A million gold isn’t hard to make, on top of that, there’s nothing to use that gold on I couldn’t get myself. The same is true for anyone.
It’s funny you think I’d give crap about fake currency that has almost no use at max level. I didn’t when people got dozens of CP from IC, which is far less impactful than being able to make a new character. I don’t care that people got to make a necromancer without having to pay for a bogus chapter with less content than even Wrothgar offered. I’m happy for those players that can try out the new class without being ripped off.
Yes, 1 million gold, I didn’t word that right did I...I actually meant ‘one thousand million’ depending where you’re looking at it from its ‘one trillion’ which I bet you’d care just a little about since it would take a lot longer to make.
Now, you might not care about this game getting the support for the items it sells, but I find it interesting that you care enough that these people still get to ‘try it out’. I suspect that you’re no longer playing this game, not having paid for anything anyway, which makes me question, that if what happens to or supports this game is of no matter to you, why are you haunting the forums, little ghost?
I log in to do a daily, check if guildies need help, if they don’t I leave, because there is nothing to do in this game anymore. I’ve played every class, done every role, finished every trial, completed literally every single quest in the game.
And no, I still wouldn’t care if you had 100 million gold, I wouldn’t care if you have 100 billion gold. The amount is meaningless. I’ve bought every DLC, bought the chapters, and I regret giving ZOS a dime. They prove time and time again they have absolutely no priority on bugs unless it’s beneficial to players.
Anything else? Meh, why not make us wait another 6 months, then maybe they’ll try to fix it.
That’s how I know you’ve played the game for a while. They can fix a bug like this in less than a week but it takes a couple months to fix the stuck in combat bug right? That’s why I don’t care now that the players got a freebie from their own mistake, serves them right.
You can also click his name and find out that he has been here since January 2016
just as you have been here since October 2017
zParallaxz wrote: »All exploits are a mistake on game devs' end... because some overlooked aspect of the game allows for unusual behaviors that weren't intended to work that way. That still doesn't make exploiting okay.sorry, but if it is a mistake on ZOSs end the players should NOT be punish, and should be allowed to keep their toons. If the game had the function "bug" whatever in it players should not be punished for using it. Yes, I own elsweyr,
Banning players for using an exploit = punishment.
Removing the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit = rectifying a bug. It's not a punishment.
Locking the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit until they pay = also not a punishment.
If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
Don’t ever make comparisons of morality between a game and real life. By your same logic you should role play a monk or do you kill animals and people with the same ferocity you do in game?
zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »Imagine screwing up your own game this badly and then your community tries to insist it’s the players’ fault that through completely ordinary means they got some benefit.
They didn’t go scheming around hacking the game. They didn’t glitch into a wall to go snipe a boss. It was nothing different than usual, they were given the option to create a character, they made a character.
I’m sick and fkin tired of this community trying to lynch players for daring to benefit from something the game hands to them. Meanwhile all the *** show going on with performance and they say “have you called your ISP? Is your PC a potato?”
Well I’m sick a ‘fkin’ tired of people trying to use the excuse of ‘this game is bugged anyway’ to keep whatever they got by illegitimate means. What if I got the PTS gold? Would I want to keep it? Hell yes, but would I expect it to be removed? HELL YES.
But hey, it’s a bug and this game is bugged? But I’d bet you’d be one of the people complaining if I had a free 1000k in my inventory.
Why would I care? A million gold isn’t hard to make, on top of that, there’s nothing to use that gold on I couldn’t get myself. The same is true for anyone.
It’s funny you think I’d give crap about fake currency that has almost no use at max level. I didn’t when people got dozens of CP from IC, which is far less impactful than being able to make a new character. I don’t care that people got to make a necromancer without having to pay for a bogus chapter with less content than even Wrothgar offered. I’m happy for those players that can try out the new class without being ripped off.
Yes, 1 million gold, I didn’t word that right did I...I actually meant ‘one thousand million’ depending where you’re looking at it from its ‘one trillion’ which I bet you’d care just a little about since it would take a lot longer to make.
Now, you might not care about this game getting the support for the items it sells, but I find it interesting that you care enough that these people still get to ‘try it out’. I suspect that you’re no longer playing this game, not having paid for anything anyway, which makes me question, that if what happens to or supports this game is of no matter to you, why are you haunting the forums, little ghost?
I log in to do a daily, check if guildies need help, if they don’t I leave, because there is nothing to do in this game anymore. I’ve played every class, done every role, finished every trial, completed literally every single quest in the game.
And no, I still wouldn’t care if you had 100 million gold, I wouldn’t care if you have 100 billion gold. The amount is meaningless. I’ve bought every DLC, bought the chapters, and I regret giving ZOS a dime. They prove time and time again they have absolutely no priority on bugs unless it’s beneficial to players.
Anything else? Meh, why not make us wait another 6 months, then maybe they’ll try to fix it.
That’s how I know you’ve played the game for a while. They can fix a bug like this in less than a week but it takes a couple months to fix the stuck in combat bug right? That’s why I don’t care now that the players got a freebie from their own mistake, serves them right.
You can also click his name and find out that he has been here since January 2016
just as you have been here since October 2017
But you probably didn’t know I’ve been on the game since late 2014 but only made a forum account in 2017 after all the performance issues so I could voice my opinion.
If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
If that was how it happened, you might have a point, but there was no red tape. There were no “V.I.P. only” signs. It was not set away from the others tucked away in the back.
There was absolutely zero indication necromancer was any different than the rest.
That is how it happened. Every single day ever since Elsweyr came out. Necros required Elsweyr. Even earlier since it was announced, Necros have always been described as requiring Elsweyr. Nothing since, no Scalebreaker announcement, no patch note, nothing at all indicated that Necros should be available to people without Elsweyr. The Elsweyr description in the Crown Store still very clearly said that Necromancers are a feature of Elsweyr.If that was how it happened, you might have a point, but the was no red tape. There were no “V.I.P. only” signs. It was not set away from the others tucked away in the back.If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
There was absolutely zero indication necromancer was any different than the rest.
zParallaxz wrote: »What do you mean "bug"?
I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.
well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experienceZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.Sandman929 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...
Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?
Stop whining man, your supposed to be supporting your fellow gamer. Not trying to get their character disabled because they got something for free while you paid for it. It’s not the consumers fault, it’s on Zos.
Am not trying to get their character disabled
am simply trying to find out if the characters have been disabled or not
If they have been disabled, will continue with my subscription and purchasing chapters
if they have not been disabled, will cancel my subscription and not bother purchasing chapters -- just next time a thread like this goes up, will make sure to jump on using the exploit sooner than posting about it
so if you have any insights in the matter @zParallaxz please do support me as a fellow gamer and let me know if it is safe for me to join the other freebies instead of being gouged by ZOS
It's not a comparison of morality, I was pointing out the difference between a punitive measure and a non-punitive measure.You couldn't access Necros before the bug, you can't access Necros after the bug - that's not a punishment. Nothing punishing happened to you.zParallaxz wrote: »Don’t ever make comparisons of morality between a game and real life. By your same logic you should role play a monk or do you kill animals and people with the same ferocity you do in game?All exploits are a mistake on game devs' end... because some overlooked aspect of the game allows for unusual behaviors that weren't intended to work that way. That still doesn't make exploiting okay.sorry, but if it is a mistake on ZOSs end the players should NOT be punish, and should be allowed to keep their toons. If the game had the function "bug" whatever in it players should not be punished for using it. Yes, I own elsweyr,
Banning players for using an exploit = punishment.
Removing the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit = rectifying a bug. It's not a punishment.
Locking the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit until they pay = also not a punishment.
If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
*Sigh* One would think people are allowed to refer to an analogy even if it doesn't match up completely. US store policies have nothing to do with exploits. If game companies intended exploiters to get away with it, they wouldn't put it in their TOS that exploiting is wrong; they'd just say 'hey, if you find a bug, you have every right to exploit it because that's how US stores work'.zParallaxz wrote: »He forgot to mention that with his store analogy, in the U.S you have to sell at the price that’s labeled at that time. There is no oh I’m sorry that product was mislabeled we can’t allow you to purchase that. If that product says free-99 with their company logo, guess what I’m walking out the store with after I check it out the cash register...If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
If that was how it happened, you might have a point, but there was no red tape. There were no “V.I.P. only” signs. It was not set away from the others tucked away in the back.
There was absolutely zero indication necromancer was any different than the rest.
zParallaxz wrote: »All exploits are a mistake on game devs' end... because some overlooked aspect of the game allows for unusual behaviors that weren't intended to work that way. That still doesn't make exploiting okay.sorry, but if it is a mistake on ZOSs end the players should NOT be punish, and should be allowed to keep their toons. If the game had the function "bug" whatever in it players should not be punished for using it. Yes, I own elsweyr,
Banning players for using an exploit = punishment.
Removing the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit = rectifying a bug. It's not a punishment.
Locking the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit until they pay = also not a punishment.
If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
Don’t ever make comparisons of morality between a game and real life. By your same logic you should role play a monk or do you kill animals and people with the same ferocity you do in game?
Extra extra read all about it! Using metaphors, analogies or even a common frame of reference is going to be needled to death by someone on the internet!
That is how it happened. Every single day ever since Elsweyr came out. Necros required Elsweyr. Even earlier since it was announced, Necros ahve always been described as requiring Elsweyr. Nothing since, no Scalebreaker announcement, no path note, nothing at all indicated that Necros should be available to people without Elsweyr. The Elsweyr description in the Crown Store still very clearly said that Necromancers are a feature of Elsweyr.If that was how it happened, you might have a point, but the was no red tape. There were no “V.I.P. only” signs. It was not set away from the others tucked away in the back.If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
There was absolutely zero indication necromancer was any different than the rest.
So even if you one day see no red tape because somebody removed it, almost everybody still knew it was not intended for everyone to have Necromancers. And as I said, if for some reason this is the first time a noob tried to make a new character and has no idea about Elsweyr and Necros, that still doesn't mean it's not an exploit. Ignorance doesn't absolve you from a crime, the same way pleading ignorance doesn't mean you didn't exploit a bug that shouldn't have been there.
Locking the created Necros until you pay for them isn't a punishment. The same way the cashier might stop you and say 'oh, that's not actually free, that was a brief issue with the sign, you can of course keep it if you pay for it' isn't punishment. It's common sense. Since the bug was about not-Elsweyr-owners having access to the Necromancer class, letting not-Elsweyr-owners have continued access to the Necromancer class maintains the bug instead of fixing it.
It's not a comparison of morality, I was pointing out the difference between a punitive measure and a non-punitive measure.You couldn't access Necros before the bug, you can't access Necros after the bug - that's not a punishment. Nothing punishing happened to you.zParallaxz wrote: »Don’t ever make comparisons of morality between a game and real life. By your same logic you should role play a monk or do you kill animals and people with the same ferocity you do in game?All exploits are a mistake on game devs' end... because some overlooked aspect of the game allows for unusual behaviors that weren't intended to work that way. That still doesn't make exploiting okay.sorry, but if it is a mistake on ZOSs end the players should NOT be punish, and should be allowed to keep their toons. If the game had the function "bug" whatever in it players should not be punished for using it. Yes, I own elsweyr,
Banning players for using an exploit = punishment.
Removing the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit = rectifying a bug. It's not a punishment.
Locking the items/currency/classes people gained through an exploit until they pay = also not a punishment.
If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.*Sigh* One would think people are allowed to refer to an analogy even if it doesn't match up completely. US store policies have nothing to do with exploits. If game companies intended exploiters to get away with it, they wouldn't put it in their TOS that exploiting is wrong; they'd just say 'hey, if you find a bug, you have every right to exploit it because that's how US stores work'.zParallaxz wrote: »He forgot to mention that with his store analogy, in the U.S you have to sell at the price that’s labeled at that time. There is no oh I’m sorry that product was mislabeled we can’t allow you to purchase that. If that product says free-99 with their company logo, guess what I’m walking out the store with after I check it out the cash register...If one of the items out of that assortment has always been behind a red line with a note 'premium customers only', and the store has posters all over its walls advertising its 'premium customer access' with a very clear inclusion of that item that should otherwise be unavailable, and one day the red line and label is missing and you take the premium item, it's still an exploit.If a store leaves their doors open with a sign that says “take one” above an assortment of items, should someone who takes one be convicted of stealing?If a store leaves their doors open and you take an item that you didn't pay for, making you put the item back or making you pay for it if you want to keep it isn't a punishment. Going to jail because you're a thief who should have known better than to take stuff you didn't pay for would be punishment.
It said take one, but didn’t explicitly say “not that one” or “leave a dollar behind”, so who would try to cry foul if someone takes what was implied to be free?
That’s how this “exploit” went down. The game said chose a class, with no indication of exclusions on the ones presented as valid options to the player.
Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.
So again, deleting the Necros or locking them down until people pay isn't a punishment. That's just common sense, and the only way this bug would be rectified, because as long as people who didn't pay for Necromancers are allowed to play Necromancers, it's supporting continuous exploitation.
If that was how it happened, you might have a point, but there was no red tape. There were no “V.I.P. only” signs. It was not set away from the others tucked away in the back.
There was absolutely zero indication necromancer was any different than the rest.
They said they're not planning on deleting the characters and banning accounts.Sandman929 wrote: »Surprised it's still going. ZOS said essentially that they're fine with it, so that makes it a gift not an exploit and the selective rule enforcement continues.
So @ZOS_GinaBruno o or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we get a confirmation or update about your plans?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.Sandman929 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...
Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »What do you mean "bug"?
I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.
well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experienceZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.Sandman929 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...
Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?
Stop whining man, your supposed to be supporting your fellow gamer. Not trying to get their character disabled because they got something for free while you paid for it. It’s not the consumers fault, it’s on Zos.
Am not trying to get their character disabled
am simply trying to find out if the characters have been disabled or not
If they have been disabled, will continue with my subscription and purchasing chapters
if they have not been disabled, will cancel my subscription and not bother purchasing chapters -- just next time a thread like this goes up, will make sure to jump on using the exploit sooner than posting about it
so if you have any insights in the matter @zParallaxz please do support me as a fellow gamer and let me know if it is safe for me to join the other freebies instead of being gouged by ZOS
I would not consider this an exploit.
I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...
May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?
Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here
I think it may have been an addition to me pre-ordering Summerset. But I'm not really sure how I got access to it to be honest. Who knows, it might be a bug also.
FAQ seems to still list Warden as not being covered with ESO Plus, and does not mention Summersethttps://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/42053/~/do-i-get-the-warden-class-if-i-have-eso-plus?The Warden class is available for Crowns in the in-game Crown Store and is not included with your ESO Plus membership. You can find the Warden under Upgrades in the Class section.
but it has not been updated since February, so @ZOS_GinaBruno may want to have the team look into either updating the FAQ or checking if Warden is not facing the same bug as Necromancer
I've had access to Warden for many months now so I don't think it had anything to do with the current issue regarding necromancer. I think it was added to the Summerset package. But this exchange between you and I certainly makes the point that classes become available to players on this game through a variety of means. So for a player to assume that may have been what happened here isn't at all unreasonable.
And for a player to have that access locked if it was not validly applied to their account to begin with is not unreasonable either
if the unlock circumstances for Warden have changed and you legitimately unlocked the Class, the issue is simply ZOS and their lack of effective communication in updating things like the FAQ
if you have not legitimately unlocked the class, then you should lose further access to that content until you properly unlock said content
or, alternatively, ZOS should make it free access for everyone so that your access of it is, by its nature, no longer an exploit
I never said that was unreasonable. But treating it like an exploit is. And I believe our exchange has made that abundantly clear - as even you were unaware warden was unlocked through other means than buying it directly from the crown store or purchasing Morrowind. So how should other players be expected to know these things?
It was an exploit by definition tho, hence ZOS acting to hotfix it out
you can fairly argue whether or not it should be treated as one, do not personally care about that angle, ZOS has already come down as saying they won't penalize accounts for it, so it is not worth my energy to try and claim they should
you already seem to agree with me that the treatment of this issue on a case by case basis is that it is reasonable to lock access to the characters until they are properly unlocked tho
this would not be an act of penalization tho, players could still buy the upgrade and resume play
zParallaxz wrote: »You’re assuming the majority of those people have in depth knowledge of the crown store and forums. What happens to the guy who thought they made it free because he had eso plus. Now he has the chance of getting his character deleted because there is no communication from the developer that it’s a bug.VaranisArano wrote: »OUCH That is a sticky mess bug.
On the topic of deleting unauthorized necromancers- (if deleting) Will the inventory on those necros also get deleted?
For that matter, Crown Store purchases?
I mean, players ought to know better than to expect to keep their necromancer if they didnt pay for Elsweyr.
no, @ZOS_GinaBruno already stated there will be no deletes
at this point, legitimate players are just hoping for the reasonable action of access to the characters having been locked until they are properly unlocked
zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »What do you mean "bug"?
I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.
well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experienceZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.Sandman929 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...
Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?
Stop whining man, your supposed to be supporting your fellow gamer. Not trying to get their character disabled because they got something for free while you paid for it. It’s not the consumers fault, it’s on Zos.
Am not trying to get their character disabled
am simply trying to find out if the characters have been disabled or not
If they have been disabled, will continue with my subscription and purchasing chapters
if they have not been disabled, will cancel my subscription and not bother purchasing chapters -- just next time a thread like this goes up, will make sure to jump on using the exploit sooner than posting about it
so if you have any insights in the matter @zParallaxz please do support me as a fellow gamer and let me know if it is safe for me to join the other freebies instead of being gouged by ZOS
So you personally made a non-Elsweyr Necromancer, and can verify it is still playable after the hotfix?
Just don't want to wait to unlock a freebie version of Class or Weapon line or whatever ZOS wants to charge me for in 2020
only to find out that they blocked Necromancers now and are simply doing the same thing over again
That excuse would work for any exploit, and therefore doesn't work for any exploit. Just because a temporary bug in the game allowed some players to do something that was never intended, and they never should have been able to do, and the company reinforces this fact by pointing out that this is an issue and they're working on fixing it, doesn't mean people are entitled to the spoils of the exploit.As already mentioned above, if the sign says free, the customer is entitled to get it for free. You can’t actually tell them no.
'You agree not to access, receive, play or use any Service to:zParallaxz wrote: »Even funnier your ascertaining with absolute knowledge that this is an exploit, when this whole issue is subjected to opinion. I don’t think it’s an exploit and my opinion doesn’t make me any more right or wrong to your opinion of this being an exploit.
LiquidPony wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »You’re assuming the majority of those people have in depth knowledge of the crown store and forums. What happens to the guy who thought they made it free because he had eso plus. Now he has the chance of getting his character deleted because there is no communication from the developer that it’s a bug.VaranisArano wrote: »OUCH That is a sticky mess bug.
On the topic of deleting unauthorized necromancers- (if deleting) Will the inventory on those necros also get deleted?
For that matter, Crown Store purchases?
I mean, players ought to know better than to expect to keep their necromancer if they didnt pay for Elsweyr.
no, @ZOS_GinaBruno already stated there will be no deletes
at this point, legitimate players are just hoping for the reasonable action of access to the characters having been locked until they are properly unlocked
Speak for yourself.
I could not possibly care less. Stop worrying so much about what other people do or don't have. It's not healthy.