People without Elsweyr are creating and playing with Necromancers

anitajoneb17_ESO

Unij wrote: »

Cookie_Bunny wrote: »

As I said, even the fact I got the Necro for free, I bought the Chapter, because I like the way the Necro works. So, it's kind of a good thing for ZOS. Because I guess it's not only me that now has a reason to buy the Elsweyr Chapter after we were able to kind of "test" it.

You could have tested it on pts...

Nope.
No necro access on PTS if you didn't have Elsweyr on your main account. DLCs : you can "buy" them on PTS for 1 "fake" crown. But chapters not being on the crown store, you need to buy them on your live account in order to be able to playtest them on PTS.

anitajoneb17_ESO

bluebird wrote: »

Number 1 would be a ban, that's not what we're discussing. That's a punitive measure.
Number 2 isn't a punishment, and while you're entitled to 'never shop here again' or whatever, that is a reflection of your character and ultimately not a big loss.

It would probably a bigger loss than the outrage of people like you who make that little insignificant incident much more of a deal than it is.
If you think ZOS' tolerance over this is unacceptable, please feel free to leave - ultimately not a big loss.

What difference does it make if it is a "service" ? If a phone company grants me free calls for the rest of my life, then that's how it has to be, even if they made a mistake in the contract. I get free calls for the rest of my life and that's it. At least, for the lifetime of the company, should it be shorter than my own.

In spite of the TOS specifying that we only rent all the digital items on our ESO account, it's 200% in ZOS interest to never, ever, ever take anything away from what we acquire, achieve, create or collect in the game. That's "cloud 101". If they start taking stuff away, no matter the reason, noone will invest anything in the game - be it time or money. And, yes, the necromancer is an ITEM once you've created one.

Besides, I personally consider "exploits" to *always* be ZOS' fault. It's their code. They should prevent glitches, fix glitches, but as long as there are glitches, we should be free to do whatever we want, whatever the game lets us do. But that's just my opinion.

hamgatan

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Your 7 year-old kid shouldn't be playing an 18+ game, especially a multiplayer one.

15+. Although the snowflake policies adopted by ZOS anyone would think this was Gaia Online.

Also;
1. He could beat up hookers in GTA V at age 2 - I have taught him manners since and trained him to beat up Khajit hookers instead.
2. Stonefalls Zone Chat is a good stepping stone for him learning about Salt and Sh*tposting before he discovers Reddit/8ch by accident.

SantieClaws

As long as all the little new necromancers stay well away from the Claws Family Temple then you know what - let them be.

It happened. It was not an open door for too long.

Some newer travellers may genuinely not have realised and may have thought it was part of the update.

So let them have their little bone rattlers. This one bought her ticket to Elsweyr for Elsweyr - warm sands and bright moons. It is no whiskers off the nose of this one if someone else was able to hire a little necromancer for a while.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Tylersoh

So can I get refunded??? I dont play story I only play pvp and Got elswyre for necro PVP since people get that free its fair I get refunded
[/quote]

Your first mistake was buying it to PvP with Necromancer Jk Jk but seriously though stuff like this happens all the time in the real world. Think of it as a restaurant giving you an extra nugget, the person behind you would start throwing a hissy fit over it. Also, you shouldn’t even have to pay for a class. Stuff like that is what causes people to argue about a game being pay to win.

bluebird

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Number 1 would be a ban, that's not what we're discussing. That's a punitive measure.
Number 2 isn't a punishment, and while you're entitled to 'never shop here again' or whatever, that is a reflection of your character and ultimately not a big loss.

In spite of the TOS specifying that we only rent all the digital items on our ESO account, it's 200% in ZOS interest to never, ever, ever take anything away from what we acquire, achieve, create or collect in the game. That's "cloud 101". If they start taking stuff away, no matter the reason, noone will invest anything in the game - be it time or money. And, yes, the necromancer is an ITEM once you've created one.

Besides, I personally consider "exploits" to *always* be ZOS' fault. It's their code. They should prevent glitches, fix glitches, but as long as there are glitches, we should be free to do whatever we want, whatever the game lets us do. But that's just my opinion.

'If they start taking stuff away noone will invest anything in the game - be it time or money.' Please don't be absurd.

• If they take away the free Crafting Bag after your ESO+ trial runs out, nobody will invest anything in the game - be it time or money? No, people will invest the same or more money in the game (people who already had, or would have subscribed anyway will do so, and some people who want continued access to it now after they tried it, will subsrcibe).
• If they take away vMA loot that people got through an exploit without actually doing the required content, people will invest less time in vMA? Lol no, people who did vMA normally, and people who didn't exploit the bug will continue to invest the same normal time in it, and some people who tried the vMA items through a bug will want to obtain them through legitimate means.
• If they take away a house that people got for 1 gold, people will invest less money in the game? No, people who would have bought the house at its normal non-bugged price will buy the house, and people who want the house after trying it for 1 gold now will pay the proper amount of money to keep it (as they were supposed to).

So it's exactly the opposite. Allowing exploiters to keep exploited items reduces the time and money invested into the game.

And yes continuing to grant access to playing the Necromancer in an online game is a service not an item. And your opinions on why all exploits should be okay don't matter since almost all games specifically condemn exploiting because games would be absolute crapfests it that wasn't the case. Taking unfair and unusual advantage of things that a bugged code allows you to do is the definition of an exploit. Of course a bug in the game makes it possible, but it wasn't intended to function that way and it's the users' responsibility to not seek unfair advantage but instead refrain from using it and inform ZOS of this bug instead. And in no way are you entitled to keep your unfair advantage over people who chose to do the right thing and didn't exploit.

They could restirct access until you pay for it properly, as they do with the Craft Bag trial. They could remove it from exploiters and rectify their mistake, as many other games do like WoW. Or they could make Necromancer free for everybody, the same way SWTOR made an item free for everyone after a bug. What ZOS is doing is literally the worst option, to reward exploiters with 30 dollars worth of free content at the expense of everybody else who actually adhered to the TOS.

Knootewoot

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.

^^ this

So, some people got a free necro. Well boohoo. Instead of being sad for yourself (not directed at OP or anyone else) because you paid for it, how hard can it be to be happy for those people. Same for the people who got their black indrik with one berry. I am happy for them.

And yes, i did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one.

Unij

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Unij wrote: »

Cookie_Bunny wrote: »

As I said, even the fact I got the Necro for free, I bought the Chapter, because I like the way the Necro works. So, it's kind of a good thing for ZOS. Because I guess it's not only me that now has a reason to buy the Elsweyr Chapter after we were able to kind of "test" it.

You could have tested it on pts...

Nope.
No necro access on PTS if you didn't have Elsweyr on your main account. DLCs : you can "buy" them on PTS for 1 "fake" crown. But chapters not being on the crown store, you need to buy them on your live account in order to be able to playtest them on PTS.

Hmmm... but I was always able to test chapters. Like Morrowind, Summerset and also Elsweyr. And none were preordered.

I guess it has something with the invitation mail to do.

redlink1979

Waiting to see how this mess is fixed.

bluebird

Knootewoot wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.

So, some people got a free necro. Well boohoo. Instead of being sad for yourself (not directed at OP or anyone else) because you paid for it, how hard can it be to be happy for those people. Same for the people who got their black indrik with one berry. I am happy for them.

And yes, i did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one.

Why should people who earned something through legitimate means by working for it be happy if people are granted it for free if they take advantage of a bug? The best you could hope for is indifference, but frustration would be far more reasonable.

More importantly, it's not about people who already paid for the Necro and have it, but about people who didn't buy the Necro and don't have it because they did the right thing and didn't exploit. It's entirely unfair to gift 30 dollars worth of content as a reward for exploiting a clearly unintended bug. It sends the message that gamers should abuse any exploit they find because it will give them unfair advantages over people who don't. Allowing them to keep the Necros reinforces this mentality and it undermines the game's integrity and clearly goes against their own TOS.

And yes, I did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one. And I don't play Necro because I think it's rubbish. It's not about me, but about all the other folks who didn't exploit getting a wrose deal than people who did, it's about the principle. If they decided that Necros are now free for everybody because it was a bug, I wouldn't mind. But to make it so that exploiters end up with a net bonus for their exploitative behavior over everybody else is encouraging a harmful game atmosphere.

Cookie_Bunny

bluebird wrote: »

But to make it so that exploiters end up with a net bonus for their exploitative behavior over everybody else is encouraging a harmful game atmosphere.

I believe the game atmosphere is already harmful enough because of people like you, who are judging without knowing the facts. Are there people who knew this could be a bug and willingly exploited it to get something they shouldn't have? Yes, definitely. But can one call them ALL exploiters nevertheless if they did not or did know it in the first place? NO.

That's why people sometimes get the benefit of the doubt in court. No one can say for sure what really happened.

So why do you think you're entitled to say everyone setting up a necro (which is, sorry to burst your bubble, not the only content in this 30 Dollar pack, therefor it's not worth 30 Dollars but, let's say, 6 Dollars, because it's a small part of a pack that contains way more than this) is a exploiter or guilty to be one? Did they set this bug up to gain something? Or did they knew about it to be a exploiter? That's not on you to decide, it's ZOS responsibility to decide, and they say, it's ok for those who already can use the necro (but are not able to use the rest of the pack). They can take it away, but they don't. You can think about it what you want, but you have to live with that very decision.

kmcaj

Will console get free necromancer too or this just another pc only perk?

Itacira

I think the best analogy here so far is there :

"If the customer beside you gets an additional nugget for free you don't throw a hissy fit."

I mean, oh my Dog, if you (general you) didn't profit from the bug, then it isn't about YOU. No matter how much you try to make it sound like it is. You paid for Necro ? well good, that means you got to use it before those who made one through the bug. Remember Murkmire ? In for free in the daily rewards ? Good. Now keep it in mind.

Listen, no matter what the TOS says (and I'd like to remind that the TOS has a lot less judicial weight than it likes to pretend to), the fact is that ZOS is responsible for their own broken code, and no one else. Users should not be punished for the lack of quality of the product - it's enough that we pay for it and have to endure it.

ZOS DOES NOT PAY US TO ALPHA OR BETA TEST THEIR GAME. WE ARE NOT PAID FOR IT. They make it into this huge "honor" but that's actually bull : that's effing free labor. THEY DO the coding, WE USE the coding, and it absolutely should not be up to us to wonder at any time whether the action we're undertaking in game is or isn't purposefully coded into the program.

zParallaxz

kmcaj wrote: »

Will console get free necromancer too or this just another pc only perk?

We don’t get the Goliath bash fix but I guarantee they won’t let this get through lol.

Knootewoot

bluebird wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.

So, some people got a free necro. Well boohoo. Instead of being sad for yourself (not directed at OP or anyone else) because you paid for it, how hard can it be to be happy for those people. Same for the people who got their black indrik with one berry. I am happy for them.

And yes, i did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one.

Why should people who earned something through legitimate means by working for it be happy if people are granted it for free if they take advantage of a bug? The best you could hope for is indifference, but frustration would be far more reasonable.

More importantly, it's not about people who already paid for the Necro and have it, but about people who didn't buy the Necro and don't have it because they did the right thing and didn't exploit. It's entirely unfair to gift 30 dollars worth of content as a reward for exploiting a clearly unintended bug. It sends the message that gamers should abuse any exploit they find because it will give them unfair advantages over people who don't. Allowing them to keep the Necros reinforces this mentality and it undermines the game's integrity and clearly goes against their own TOS.

And yes, I did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one. And I don't play Necro because I think it's rubbish. It's not about me, but about all the other folks who didn't exploit getting a wrose deal than people who did, it's about the principle. If they decided that Necros are now free for everybody because it was a bug, I wouldn't mind. But to make it so that exploiters end up with a net bonus for their exploitative behavior over everybody else is encouraging a harmful game atmosphere.

Because that is live. Live seems not always fair. Fireman and police work their arses of and hardly earn any money. Some kid plays fortnite and wins a whopping 3 million dollar. Some kids are recruited to play in Harry Potter at their 5th age and are billionaires when the series are done at their 20th. While the poor policeman's kids can't even go to collega because his wages is so low.

Oh you spend 30 dollar or so on a zone and other stuff and the necro. Now someone can make a free one whooptiedoo. Talking about first world problems. While they were making the necro, thousands of fish sufficated in plastic and the world get destroyed. Nope, not fix that because we have people making necro's for free.

Sandman929

This thread is getting so deep. I think we all learned a little bit about ourselves.

ZOS is aware. ZOS fixed the problem. ZOS has said what they won't do about it. If there's more to come, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

Cookie_Bunny

I am happy about all the nice players who are able to play a Class they got free due to a bug. It's not their fault, they can't be punished for it. Still i'm happy for them. We're a community, and everybody should feel happy for everyone who gets something great for less. Not everybody can afford to pay for these contents, so I'm happy that these people where able to get a little content to enjoy for free.

I guess I'm a form of a human that is currently threatened by extinction: I still grant others to be happy about the little things in life. Because, as we can see in this thread (and overall in the internet), people are selfish, mean and don't want others to have some luck, which is a precious little flower in this dark times we live in. Like someone said before:

Knootewoot wrote: »

Talking about first world problems.

rpa

If someone gets a nice thing free because a bug, either by accident or finding one can pick it up quick enough, you generally don't delete or lock it away. Happens all the time in games. Like have the one berry Onyx Indriks been taken away?

If someone repeatedly uses a bug to get gather load of thing or uses an exploit to get rewards which they should not be able to get then it may be ban & take away time.

Someone having a necro but not Elsweyr does not bother me. Good for them. And I have to admit I did purchase Elsweyr when it was on sale. Game state being what it is, I'm bit ashamed.

January1171

The problem with this is that allowing these players to continue playing their necros makes players who bought the expansion feel taken advantage of for paying when they could've gotten the necro for free.

By this point, whatever players may have thought when they initially created the necro, it is obvious that it is a bug. Players who continue to play with their necros they shouldn't have are continuing to exploit the bug, which is very clearly against the TOS. If ZOS won't stand by their TOS, why should we? This undermines customer faith in ZOS and ESO.

I'm not saying players who created necros without paying for the content should be banned, as that would be extreme. But as it is, by doing nothing to restrict their access to those characters, ZOS is conveying a message that the TOS doesn't actually matter and exploiting bugs is fine. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth for players, like myself, who aren't getting the same advantages as someone exploiting the game and breaking TOS.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you please pass this along to the relevant team? Thank you

shaielzafine

So let me get this straight, people who made necros because of ZOS' bug with the patch get to keep them and continue playing without paying for it like the rest of us who bought / pre-ordered Elsweyr. Nice, ZOS. You're telling me people can exploit the bugs like this before a hotfix and get free stuff that players normally have to pay for.

NeroBad

I like the term "punished" as having something for free for a period then taking it back is a such a horrible act. You had some time to try the new class, which without this bug would be possible only on PTS. So If you enjoyed the free trial of this class then you can buy it actually. You didn't do anything to demand it for yourselfs. ZOS can make it to last, but that is their choice to make, they are not obligated to do that. When a bank transfer made to a wrong account, the recipient have no right to keep it, altough the sender made the mistake.

bluebird

Cookie_Bunny wrote: »

That's why people sometimes get the benefit of the doubt in court. No one can say for sure what really happened.

So why do you think you're entitled to say everyone setting up a necro (which is, sorry to burst your bubble, not the only content in this 30 Dollar pack, therefor it's not worth 30 Dollars but, let's say, 6 Dollars, because it's a small part of a pack that contains way more than this) is a exploiter or guilty to be one?

Yes and that's why I'm not supporting a ban for them. They get the benefit of doubt of not abusing the bug maliciously, so they shouldn't have action taken against them. But an exploit is still an exploit. Keeping non-ESO+subs from accessing a Craft Bag after a trial isn't a punishment. Just like keeping Necro bug users from accessing their Necro after the bug was fixed isn't a punishment.

And the price of Elsweyr is 40-60 dollars. Which is why I didn't say that they got all of that content's value for free.

Itacira wrote: »

Listen, no matter what the TOS says (and I'd like to remind that the TOS has a lot less judicial weight than it likes to pretend to), the fact is that ZOS is responsible for their own broken code, and no one else. Users should not be punished for the lack of quality of the product - it's enough that we pay for it and have to endure it.

zParallaxz wrote: »

Some people would swear the TOS is as infallible as actual law. I kinda assume the people who are actually trying to reprimand people for not following it are immature or haven’t experienced the hardships of real life.

Nobody is pretending that the TOS a law. But it isn't just a community guideline or a personal ethical dilemma, it is an explicit Terms of Service indicating how the game and bugs should be handled, and it's not in good faith to disregard it and go completely against what it says. If you find an unusual behavior in the game that isn't intended, you should report it instead of taking part in it. If ZOS were okay with exploiting, and wanted people to exploit early and often, they shouldn't have exploits it in their TOS. But they are clearly against exploiting, and yet letting people keep playing Necros after the bug was 'fixed' does the opposite. Which is why their inaction makes no sense, as it encourages the very same behavior they don't want.

And for the 100th time, it's not a reprimand if you were allowed to play a Necro during a bug but can't play it further after the bug was fixed. Thats not a punishment, not a reprimand, nothing. That's just the bug being fixed. As long as people who didn't pay for a Necromancer can continue playing a Necromancer, the bug wasn't fixed, it's being maintained.

It's genuinely mindboggling why so many ESO players have apparent comprehension issues when it comes to handling exploits. Other games do it without any problem whatsoever. WoW usually takes the retrospective fix approach - anything people obtain through a bug will be removed, and the game is back to working as intended, with nobody having an exploitative advantage. SWTOR on the other hand usually took the preemptive approach, making the bugged item free for everybody so it's now intended and not an exploit anymore, so exploiters don't have an advantage over regular folk in this method either. What ESO is doing is entirely nonsensical. They might as well just encourage exploits in their TOS then since their actions encourage precisely the behavior that they don't want to see.

January1171

bluebird wrote: »

And for the 100th time, it's not a reprimand if you were allowed to play a Necro during a bug but can't play it further after the bug was fixed. Thats not a punishment, not a reprimand, nothing. That's just the bug being fixed. As long as people who didn't pay for a Necromancer can continue playing a Necromancer, the bug wasn't fixed, it's being maintained.

It's genuinely mindboggling why so many ESO players have apparent comprehension issues when it comes to handling exploits. Other games do it without any problem whatsoever. WoW usually takes the retrospective fix approach - anything people obtain through a bug will be removed, and the game is back to working as intended, with nobody having an exploitative advantage. SWTOR on the other hand usually took the preemptive approach, making the bugged item free for everybody so it's now intended and not an exploit anymore, so exploiters don't have an advantage over regular folk in this method either. What ESO is doing is entirely nonsensical. They might as well just encourage exploits in their TOS then since their actions encourage precisely the behavior that they don't want to see.

Exactly this

NeillMcAttack

KappaKid83 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

Then why did we buy Elsweyr, seriously? The zone itself is whatever and the trial is decent but jesus, you guys sold the Chapter on Dragons and the NECRO. Charged us MONEY to unlock this character and now because of a bug on your part that was somehow overlooked before live it was given for free. I have said it before and I will say it again, refund the people who pre-ordered or bought Elsweyr, this is pathetic.

Oh man! This is a good one. With over a dozen ‘agrees’ too.

Well, it’s like this. If I make an offer of 1 free beer outside my bar, 49 people arrive in, and start getting pints poured by my in-experienced temp bartender, only for me to find out he has been pouring them any beer they wanted, whereas I was only offering the Heineken that is nearly gone-off.

Now do I take back all those half pints, upset these 49 patrons that may leave never to return, or leave um off, hope they get a second round, and simply get over it.
Would people that have been to my pub previously and gotten a Heineken be entitled to demand a free beer of their choice?

SidraWillowsky

Aurielle wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.

So, some people got a free necro. Well boohoo. Instead of being sad for yourself (not directed at OP or anyone else) because you paid for it, how hard can it be to be happy for those people. Same for the people who got their black indrik with one berry. I am happy for them.

And yes, i did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one.

Why should people who earned something through legitimate means by working for it be happy if people are granted it for free if they take advantage of a bug? The best you could hope for is indifference, but frustration would be far more reasonable.

More importantly, it's not about people who already paid for the Necro and have it, but about people who didn't buy the Necro and don't have it because they did the right thing and didn't exploit. It's entirely unfair to gift 30 dollars worth of content as a reward for exploiting a clearly unintended bug. It sends the message that gamers should abuse any exploit they find because it will give them unfair advantages over people who don't. Allowing them to keep the Necros reinforces this mentality and it undermines the game's integrity and clearly goes against their own TOS.

And yes, I did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one. And I don't play Necro because I think it's rubbish. It's not about me, but about all the other folks who didn't exploit getting a wrose deal than people who did, it's about the principle. If they decided that Necros are now free for everybody because it was a bug, I wouldn't mind. But to make it so that exploiters end up with a net bonus for their exploitative behavior over everybody else is encouraging a harmful game atmosphere.

Because that is live. Live seems not always fair. Fireman and police work their arses of and hardly earn any money. Some kid plays fortnite and wins a whopping 3 million dollar. Some kids are recruited to play in Harry Potter at their 5th age and are billionaires when the series are done at their 20th. While the poor policeman's kids can't even go to collega because his wages is so low.

Oh you spend 30 dollar or so on a zone and other stuff and the necro. Now someone can make a free one whooptiedoo. Talking about first world problems. While they were making the necro, thousands of fish sufficated in plastic and the world get destroyed. Nope, not fix that because we have people making necro's for free.

Right? I’d love to see how many of these people would still be whining about how “unfair” the necro debacle is after spending a night shift in my shoes. “Unfair” is being expected to work in a perennially understaffed environment in which people’s lives are literally in your hands, earning a pittance for the privilege of doing physically, mentally, and emotionally demanding work that makes you extremely susceptible to burnout, hearing that there’s “not enough money in the budget to hire more nurses”, all while your 9-5 managers have managers for their managers, who also have managers for THEIR managers, and that even one of those managers earn infinitely more than what you earn to sit on their ass all day and send out memos from 9-5. You might not get a single break during a twelve hour shift, but you’d better believe your managers are taking hour long lunch breaks! THAT is unfair.

Guys, instead of crying about people getting free necros, I repeat that you should focus on the main issue: these updates are coming in WAY too quickly, and they’re not being tested to the extent that they should be. I read on glassdoor that ZOS employees are not expected to crunch, which is good, but they still have to meet pretty aggressive deadlines. It’s clear to anyone who has played this game over the past few years that while the amount of new content we’ve been getting has increased significantly, the quality has also declined dramatically. Don’t want people to randomly get paid classes for free? Then don’t support a company that thinks it’s okay to push out buggy updates at an insane rate, all in the service of introducing new microtransactions (see, e.g., the purchaseable skill lines available as of Scalebreaker).

How did this turn into the suffering Olympics. This has nothing to do with your job or fish in plastic.

Look, I have no real opinion on what should or should not happen, but people here MUST realize that $30 is a LOT OF MONEY for some people and that in their eyes that $30 could have gone elsewhere if others were going to be able to play for free? Like, maybe they had to choose between three video games and chose this. Can you not see why that would be irksome?

Jayne_Doe

As long as Necro is now locked for anyone who was able to create a character when they weren't supposed to be able to, then I think it's ok. I'd rather their characters be locked until they purchase Elsweyr or the class (when it later becomes a separate purchase like the Warden). However, I suspect that might be something that they would have to create code for and would rather just let those players keep playing the class they really shouldn't have access to.

Yeah...I don't like that they get to keep their Necro characters, but I understand ZOS' position since it was their own fault that this happened, regardless of the fact that there undoubtedly were players who KNEW this was a bug but took advantage of it anyway. Not all, of course, but you can't tell me that all of them are "innocent."

One of these days, maybe I'll get to take advantage of obtaining content I didn't pay for or getting a house for 1 crown. Then again, I'd know it was a bug and wouldn't actually take advantage.

Waffennacht

Aurielle wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.

So, some people got a free necro. Well boohoo. Instead of being sad for yourself (not directed at OP or anyone else) because you paid for it, how hard can it be to be happy for those people. Same for the people who got their black indrik with one berry. I am happy for them.

And yes, i did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one.

Why should people who earned something through legitimate means by working for it be happy if people are granted it for free if they take advantage of a bug? The best you could hope for is indifference, but frustration would be far more reasonable.

More importantly, it's not about people who already paid for the Necro and have it, but about people who didn't buy the Necro and don't have it because they did the right thing and didn't exploit. It's entirely unfair to gift 30 dollars worth of content as a reward for exploiting a clearly unintended bug. It sends the message that gamers should abuse any exploit they find because it will give them unfair advantages over people who don't. Allowing them to keep the Necros reinforces this mentality and it undermines the game's integrity and clearly goes against their own TOS.

And yes, I did buy the expansion. Even the collectors one. And I don't play Necro because I think it's rubbish. It's not about me, but about all the other folks who didn't exploit getting a wrose deal than people who did, it's about the principle. If they decided that Necros are now free for everybody because it was a bug, I wouldn't mind. But to make it so that exploiters end up with a net bonus for their exploitative behavior over everybody else is encouraging a harmful game atmosphere.

Because that is live. Live seems not always fair. Fireman and police work their arses of and hardly earn any money. Some kid plays fortnite and wins a whopping 3 million dollar. Some kids are recruited to play in Harry Potter at their 5th age and are billionaires when the series are done at their 20th. While the poor policeman's kids can't even go to collega because his wages is so low.

Oh you spend 30 dollar or so on a zone and other stuff and the necro. Now someone can make a free one whooptiedoo. Talking about first world problems. While they were making the necro, thousands of fish sufficated in plastic and the world get destroyed. Nope, not fix that because we have people making necro's for free.

Right? I’d love to see how many of these people would still be whining about how “unfair” the necro debacle is after spending a night shift in my shoes. “Unfair” is being expected to work in a perennially understaffed environment in which people’s lives are literally in your hands, earning a pittance for the privilege of doing physically, mentally, and emotionally demanding work that makes you extremely susceptible to burnout, hearing that there’s “not enough money in the budget to hire more nurses”, all while your 9-5 managers have managers for their managers, who also have managers for THEIR managers, and that even one of those managers earn infinitely more than what you earn to sit on their ass all day and send out memos from 9-5. You might not get a single break during a twelve hour shift, but you’d better believe your managers are taking hour long lunch breaks! THAT is unfair.

Guys, instead of crying about people getting free necros, I repeat that you should focus on the main issue: these updates are coming in WAY too quickly, and they’re not being tested to the extent that they should be. I read on glassdoor that ZOS employees are not expected to crunch, which is good, but they still have to meet pretty aggressive deadlines. It’s clear to anyone who has played this game over the past few years that while the amount of new content we’ve been getting has increased significantly, the quality has also declined dramatically. Don’t want people to randomly get paid classes for free? Then don’t support a company that thinks it’s okay to push out buggy updates at an insane rate, all in the service of introducing new microtransactions (see, e.g., the purchaseable skill lines available as of Scalebreaker).

I think just about everyone here has an extremely similar job.

We're all understaffed and over managed

Waffennacht

How can players be banned for playing the IC during a bug, but creating a character during a bug is so much different?

KappaKid83

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KappaKid83 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

Then why did we buy Elsweyr, seriously? The zone itself is whatever and the trial is decent but jesus, you guys sold the Chapter on Dragons and the NECRO. Charged us MONEY to unlock this character and now because of a bug on your part that was somehow overlooked before live it was given for free. I have said it before and I will say it again, refund the people who pre-ordered or bought Elsweyr, this is pathetic.

Oh man! This is a good one. With over a dozen ‘agrees’ too.

Well, it’s like this. If I make an offer of 1 free beer outside my bar, 49 people arrive in, and start getting pints poured by my in-experienced temp bartender, only for me to find out he has been pouring them any beer they wanted, whereas I was only offering the Heineken that is nearly gone-off.

Now do I take back all those half pints, upset these 49 patrons that may leave never to return, or leave um off, hope they get a second round, and simply get over it.
Would people that have been to my pub previously and gotten a Heineken be entitled to demand a free beer of their choice?

So you're saying that Devs are inexperienced or?

Your comparison also doesn't work for a few reasons. You never put a cap on the number of people and no one had to pay for the beer originally. If some people had to pay and some didn't the analogy may work, but no one had to pay and everyone got a beer free of charge originally.

But in the case of the Necro everyone had to pay and no one received anything free, so using your scenario there was never a free promotion but there would have had to have been an inexperienced bartender handing out free beers. Which in this case we can call inexperience bartenders dev's right? So now you are losing money, regular patrons to your bar are peeved that they didn't receive the same treatment and it's just a marginally bad look for you as the owner, yeah?

But in your case you can't take back half consumed anything(beer, food, soda etc.), but luckily with this being a game where you can lock some features or all out get rid of characters, the company has the ability to do just that. Locking those characters until Elsweyr is purchased by that account or just deleting Necros on accounts that do not have Elsweyr purchased.

So in the end your analogy falls short at being similar to this case, like way short.

jadarock

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

While some people paid for this product

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Azorean wrote: »

Probably they won't delete the chars but will lock them until you have Elsweyr Chapter in your account.

Actually you're right, that might be the best way to handle it.

Agreed, this would be the logical solution. Necromancer is likely considered a separate "upgrade" to Elsweyr in the same way that Warden is separate from Morrowind, so it should be technically easy to lock off access to a Necro character if the Necro upgrade is not attached to that account.

Since this was fixed fast, it isn't really a grand problem. They can easily sacrifice some 2020 revenue, let those players have it for free, and garner some good will, all by just letting it go. It's fixed, and that is really the important thing.

I disagree
How is that fair to the people that actually purchased the new product not that long ago??
Seems to me they will garner ill will and rightfully so if they "let players play necro for free".

It's simple lock the toons until they make the purchase