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People without Elsweyr are creating and playing with Necromancers

  • Banana
    Banana
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    Can i get a class change bug and one that halves my ping
  • Katheriah
    Katheriah
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    How are you going to stop those people for playing a class they didn't pay for? Or am I getting some money back that I paid for the chapter?
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Davor wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    Well I guess you can say that. After all Zenimax is not Bethesda where they punish people for their own mistakes. You really want Zenimax to become like Betehsda?

    It's not a punishment to lock access to the class and require people to properly purchase them to continue accessing it
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    I would not consider this an exploit.

    I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...

    May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
    or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?

    Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here

    I think it may have been an addition to me pre-ordering Summerset. But I'm not really sure how I got access to it to be honest. Who knows, it might be a bug also.
    Edited by Jeremy on August 12, 2019 6:49PM
  • KerinKor
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    Itacira wrote: »
    If so, why report it ?

    Because its a serious bug with ZOS' new content, and we're required by the TOS to report and then not exploit bugs?

    For those of us who aren't ZOS employees, please tell us where this would be clear this is obviously a 'serious bug' .. given ZOS' excellent Q&A department presumably signed off on this release I would consider it a new 'feature' until proben otherwise and NOT report it.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    Damn skippy but I can't wait for the " I withdrew 2 million gold on my Necro and you guys deleted it" Threads

    Not to mention the "I created a necromancer and 10 minutes later you deleted it. Where's my compensation?" threads.

    If I were ZOS and I received loads of complaints from players who claimed they had invested several hours into raising these characters to CP 810 only to have them deleted, the first thing I'd do would be to cross-refer them to a list of those players who have claimed the game is "literally unplayable" :wink: !
  • Azorean
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    [t.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.[/quote]

    Agree but these characters should be locked until the account is eligible to play said class.
    And now people will simply exploit the bug and have free necros/wardens.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    I would not consider this an exploit.

    I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...

    May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
    or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?

    Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here

    I think it may have been an addition to me pre-ordering Summerset. But I'm not really sure how I got access to it to be honest. Who knows, it might be a bug also.

    FAQ seems to still list Warden as not being covered with ESO Plus, and does not mention Summerset
    The Warden class is available for Crowns in the in-game Crown Store and is not included with your ESO Plus membership. You can find the Warden under Upgrades in the Class section.
    https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/42053/~/do-i-get-the-warden-class-if-i-have-eso-plus?

    but it has not been updated since February, so @ZOS_GinaBruno may want to have the team look into either updating the FAQ or checking if Warden is not facing the same bug as Necromancer
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Jeremy
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    Smart move on your company's part I'd say.
  • Jagdkommando
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    ZOS_JesC wrote: »
    Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive comments, this is a friendly reminder to remain constructive and on topic when posting. Thank you.

    Remind friendly and constructive? Ahahhahaha we have been asking to fix many bugs since 4 years ago, you still have those on, and on top of that after new update you bring this new bugs, have you ever test those simple things??? Like “ ok we made this update lets try to create a simple character” you not even test this....
    @ZOS_JesC
    Just admit guys, you suck....
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    So, is this sanctioned until they fix it? I have an account without Elswey (yet) that can benefit from this.... what to do....

    Well, not really. We've already hotfixed the issue.
    Gina Bruno
    Senior Community Manager
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter
    Staff Post
  • KappaKid83
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    Then why did we buy Elsweyr, seriously? The zone itself is whatever and the trial is decent but jesus, you guys sold the Chapter on Dragons and the NECRO. Charged us MONEY to unlock this character and now because of a bug on your part that was somehow overlooked before live it was given for free. I have said it before and I will say it again, refund the people who pre-ordered or bought Elsweyr, this is pathetic.
  • Lord_Eomer
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    I believe, this issue has been fixed not allowing anymore to create Necro without Eslweyr
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experience :)
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    This is precisely what annoys me.

    We see it every time ZOS has to deal with a major exploit. Players going "Oh, its ZOS' fault, so its okay if we abuse it."

    Sometimes that leads lots of players to abuse the bug, only to get hit with the banhammer once ZOS decides this is the exploit they are going to punish. Examples: Asylum Sanctorium, Imperial City exp

    Sometimes players abuse it and get to keep their rewards even though an ounce of common sense would make it clear it was a bug. Examples: 1st Onyx berry granting the Onyx indrik, keeping the Coldharbor house bought for 1 Crown. And now, keeping your Necromancers.

    All that the latter does is encourage players who find a bug that gives them a reward to abuse it as quickly as possible and then deny "Oh, I totally thought it was intended!" and pray ZOS doesnt take it away.

    It encourages players to take their chances with ZOS, hoping to get the rewards of abusing bugs while diminishing their expectation that ZOS will actually enforce the TOS and CoC, which makes it feel all the more unfair when ZOS rightfully does enforce it.
  • TequilaFire
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    You all can put you pitch forks back in the closet. smh
    ZOS handled this one right.
    Edited by TequilaFire on August 12, 2019 6:56PM
  • Palidon
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    Was wondering if any new bugs would surface with the implementation of the new dlc today. Can't blame players for taking advantage of creating a Necromancer without owning Elsweyr. The bug was created by ZOS so they can't blame anyone but themselves. If you leave an opening folks will take advantage of it. ZOS ignores many bugs but you can count on them being jiffy on the spot fixing this one. If you think about it's pretty funny. I paid for the Elsweyr expansion and am still laughing.
  • Samadhi
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experience :)
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    Welcome to the real world where answers aren't black and white or perfect. The best solution is to let people keep their characters because every day there are new players and every day people create new characters. A lot of people play the game. Why would a new player to the game know all the classes that are supposed to be available? It is far more important to not frustrate the people who didn't know any better than to penalize those who jump on to exploit.
    ...

    Fully support people being able to keep them
    just also fully support not being able to play them further until they have been paid for
    this way people who enjoy the class can continue playing, those that don't enjoy it never have to play again, and no one has to be frustrated by the fact that they got a brief free preview before buying
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    ...
    You are choosing to only consider the impact on encouraging exploiters. That is only one consideration. Especially for something like this that is so easy to do without realizing it is an exploit. Isn't it a free ESO+ trial? As far as they know, it is part of the trial, just like access to DLC skill line--which you get to keep after the trial is over.

    Encouraging exploiters negatively impacts the broader community -- always remember it is a both/and situation
    both ZOS and the exploiters are at fault, while the legitimate players are those who suffer
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.
    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.
    Will you be locking the characters until they purchase Elsweyr at least?

    Because to let them continue playing something that they shouldn't have been able to aquire would be to allow people to keep a game unlock (that costs real money) that they obtained through a bug and a known exploit. And that's not a good look in the eyes of actual customers who paid for it.
  • Palidon
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experience :)
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    Welcome to the real world where answers aren't black and white or perfect. The best solution is to let people keep their characters because every day there are new players and every day people create new characters. A lot of people play the game. Why would a new player to the game know all the classes that are supposed to be available? It is far more important to not frustrate the people who didn't know any better than to penalize those who jump on to exploit.

    You are choosing to only consider the impact on encouraging exploiters. That is only one consideration. Especially for something like this that is so easy to do without realizing it is an exploit. Isn't it a free ESO+ trial? As far as they know, it is part of the trial, just like access to DLC skill line--which you get to keep after the trial is over.

    The ESO plus trial does not give you access to any expansions like Elsweyr only the DLC's. You need the Elsweyr expansion for the Necro class. Most likely was the new dlc that created the bug.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    So, is this sanctioned until they fix it? I have an account without Elswey (yet) that can benefit from this.... what to do....

    Well, not really. We've already hotfixed the issue.

    oh good, it is hotfixed

    anyone know if the characters have been locked or are still accessible?
    ZOS has rules that they won't tell us,
    but would be interested from other players who already do not support this game financially if this is a good example of reason for me to join you
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Elsonso
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    So, is this sanctioned until they fix it? I have an account without Elswey (yet) that can benefit from this.... what to do....

    Well, not really. We've already hotfixed the issue.

    :cry:


    :smiley:
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Jeremy
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    I would not consider this an exploit.

    I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...

    May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
    or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?

    Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here

    I think it may have been an addition to me pre-ordering Summerset. But I'm not really sure how I got access to it to be honest. Who knows, it might be a bug also.

    FAQ seems to still list Warden as not being covered with ESO Plus, and does not mention Summerset
    The Warden class is available for Crowns in the in-game Crown Store and is not included with your ESO Plus membership. You can find the Warden under Upgrades in the Class section.
    https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/42053/~/do-i-get-the-warden-class-if-i-have-eso-plus?

    but it has not been updated since February, so @ZOS_GinaBruno may want to have the team look into either updating the FAQ or checking if Warden is not facing the same bug as Necromancer

    I've had access to Warden for many months now so I don't think it had anything to do with the current issue regarding necromancer. I think it was added to the Summerset package. But this exchange between you and I certainly makes the point that classes become available to players on this game through a variety of means. So for a player to assume that may have been what happened here isn't at all unreasonable.
  • Uryel
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    People can definitely do that without it being an intentional exploit. Many people don't read up on changes to the game. For example, one day, some people didn't have access to BGs. Then, all of a sudden, they did.

    Yeah, and some people don't spend all their free time on the forums, they spend the time they have playing the game.

    Reminds me of that one time on Warframe where I asked on the forum what happened if watching the live stream on Steam had bugged, as there was supposedly a reward from watching. Turns out, simply attempting to watch long enough was ok. But I got s***stormed because I was supposedly "well aware" that I had to watch it on twitch or mixer for the reward, that I had no right to a reward if I didn't meet the requirements, and other pointless arguments. The fact is, Steam announced the stream /reward thing only a few hours before it happened, while the whole thing had been announced on Twitter / official website weeks prior. And the previous announcement never mentionned anything about Steam. Maybe it was a last moment thing, I don't know, but it was explicitely mentionned that it would work, and it did. Well, the reward thing did, the stream was bugged most of the time, and I might get around creating a twitch account next time, assuming I don't get the ingo 10 minutes before the actual event starts ^^'

    The point of the story ? People who spend their time on the website, forums, twitter and whatnot may be aware of alot of things, but not everyone does, and it'sperfectly plausibkle to miss an important information if you mostly play the game. And sometimes, not in the case of the non legit necromancers that is our focus today, but sometimes, people who think they know better because they spend so much time keeping themselves informed still. don't. know. squid.
  • Katheriah
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    Palidon wrote: »
    Was wondering if any new bugs would surface with the implementation of the new dlc today. Can't blame players for taking advantage of creating a Necromancer without owning Elsweyr. The bug was created by ZOS so they can't blame anyone but themselves. If you leave an opening folks will take advantage of it. ZOS ignores many bugs but you can count on them being jiffy on the spot fixing this one. If you think about it's pretty funny. I paid for the Elsweyr expansion and am still laughing.

    Do you remember pinky swearing you wouldn't exploit bugs? It's called the terms & conditions.
  • cherryskary
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    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    Then why did we pay for it in the first place?
  • VaranisArano
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    KerinKor wrote: »
    Itacira wrote: »
    If so, why report it ?

    Because its a serious bug with ZOS' new content, and we're required by the TOS to report and then not exploit bugs?

    For those of us who aren't ZOS employees, please tell us where this would be clear this is obviously a 'serious bug' .. given ZOS' excellent Q&A department presumably signed off on this release I would consider it a new 'feature' until proben otherwise and NOT report it.

    I can buy that a brand new, "just made an account" player might be confused. Maybe even a "I left the game prior to Morrowind, now there are new classes, what?" player.

    Do you actually fall into either of those categories?

    For everyone else, they ought to know better.

    Necromncer is the class released with the new Chapter. We've had two Chapters and we know how this works.
    Morrowind had Warden available for sale, a year later.
    Summerset became a DLC, a year later.

    Elsweyr did NOT release its new class after 3 months intentionally. No one who pays the slightest bit of attention to how ESO works actually genuinely believed that.

    Next you'll tell me you really believed that the Onyx Indrik only took 1 berry to make even though the other two mounts took 4 berries.
  • Samadhi
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    well, hopefully when you pay to unlock access to the class you will be able to continue on with your experience :)
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    This is precisely what annoys me.

    We see it every time ZOS has to deal with a major exploit. Players going "Oh, its ZOS' fault, so its okay if we abuse it."

    Sometimes that leads lots of players to abuse the bug, only to get hit with the banhammer once ZOS decides this is the exploit they are going to punish. Examples: Asylum Sanctorium, Imperial City exp

    Sometimes players abuse it and get to keep their rewards even though an ounce of common sense would make it clear it was a bug. Examples: 1st Onyx berry granting the Onyx indrik, keeping the Coldharbor house bought for 1 Crown. And now, keeping your Necromancers.

    All that the latter does is encourage players who find a bug that gives them a reward to abuse it as quickly as possible and then deny "Oh, I totally thought it was intended!" and pray ZOS doesnt take it away.

    It encourages players to take their chances with ZOS, hoping to get the rewards of abusing bugs while diminishing their expectation that ZOS will actually enforce the TOS and CoC, which makes it feel all the more unfair when ZOS rightfully does enforce it.

    Yeah, inconsistency is the bane of rule enforcement

    on the plus side, we have not yet gotten to the point where ZOS is doing lopsided enforcement based on race
    All Redguard Necromancers deleted, all Altmer Necromancers allowed to stay sort of thing
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • J2JMC
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    You know I made a snarky comment earlier about how quick ZOS responded to what I thought was a harmless bug, but clearly I was wrong. Ya'll out here in full force trying to get the new characters locked lmao. Clearly this is a game breaking bug, and I'm glad ZOS made sure it was handled before it got out of control and ruined everything.
    Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD

    Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP

    "Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert

  • Samadhi
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    I would not consider this an exploit.

    I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...

    May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
    or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?

    Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here

    I think it may have been an addition to me pre-ordering Summerset. But I'm not really sure how I got access to it to be honest. Who knows, it might be a bug also.

    FAQ seems to still list Warden as not being covered with ESO Plus, and does not mention Summerset
    The Warden class is available for Crowns in the in-game Crown Store and is not included with your ESO Plus membership. You can find the Warden under Upgrades in the Class section.
    https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/42053/~/do-i-get-the-warden-class-if-i-have-eso-plus?

    but it has not been updated since February, so @ZOS_GinaBruno may want to have the team look into either updating the FAQ or checking if Warden is not facing the same bug as Necromancer

    I've had access to Warden for many months now so I don't think it had anything to do with the current issue regarding necromancer. I think it was added to the Summerset package. But this exchange between you and I certainly makes the point that classes become available to players on this game through a variety of means. So for a player to assume that may have been what happened here isn't at all unreasonable.

    And for a player to have that access locked if it was not validly applied to their account to begin with is not unreasonable either

    if the unlock circumstances for Warden have changed and you legitimately unlocked the Class, the issue is simply ZOS and their lack of effective communication in updating things like the FAQ

    if you have not legitimately unlocked the class, then you should lose further access to that content until you properly unlock said content

    or, alternatively, ZOS should make it free access for everyone so that your access of it is, by its nature, no longer an exploit
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Azorean wrote: »
    Probably they won't delete the chars but will lock them until you have Elsweyr Chapter in your account.
    Actually you're right, that might be the best way to handle it.
    Agreed, this would be the logical solution. Necromancer is likely considered a separate "upgrade" to Elsweyr in the same way that Warden is separate from Morrowind, so it should be technically easy to lock off access to a Necro character if the Necro upgrade is not attached to that account.
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