Maintenance for the week of August 19:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 19,  4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)

People without Elsweyr are creating and playing with Necromancers

  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    People can definitely do that without it being an intentional exploit. Many people don't read up on changes to the game. For example, one day, some people didn't have access to BGs. Then, all of a sudden, they did.

    Yeah, and anyone who does so is not likely to make huge strides on their new character so long as ZOS gets on top of this

    the only people that "should" be worried are those that discovered this error on the PTS, and decided to treat it like prepping a new build so they could jump on and exploit a locked character class up to a high enough level to whine when it gets deleted
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • max_only
    max_only
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe now you might use the giant ad window we get when we log in for game information as well as crown store ads.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 975 || PC/NA ||
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    The main thing I can imagine is a new player/player with no knowledge of Elsweyr or the game. They go to create a toon, and see an option for a necro among the classes, so they just pick that.

    I also think there are people who would legit think ZOS just made the necro class part of the base game. In my experience, if there is a misunderstanding that can occur someone will misunderstand it.

    Most people should realize this was a bug though

    fortunately tho, in such circumstances of legitimately new players,
    ZOS is going to be able to see a newly created account accessing the class compared to a month+ account familiar with Elsweyr being locked accessing this class
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I just checked on my 2 alt accounts. Steam doesn't seem to allow it at all. The non-Steam version allowed selection of Necro, but when I hit create, it said "invalid class." I'm thinking they did something server-side to stop it from happening.

    Warden was still unavailable on my no-chapter non-Steam version.
  • Davor
    Davor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    J2JMC wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    I would never take a position where the argument is based off of ZOS' generosity lol. I just don't consider creating the class in itself an exploit. Only the steps taken to get to the point of being able to create the class.

    As far as I know people logged in, saw they could create the necromancer, and created one. I don't consider that exploiting as they were playing normally for all intents and purposes. Now, if there are specific steps being taken that don't fall into normal gameplay patterns (e.g., logging in and out 3 times within 10 seconds), then I would consider this an exploit.

    And in a general sense, there are issues with gameplay design, performance, and monetization that are much higher on my list of things to be frustrated about. A couple of people accessing the necromancer class through a bug on ZOS' end just does not concern me in the slightest.

    I will concede that I would be upset if ZOS decided to make Elsewyr a free update going forward because of this bug.

    Well said. So much better than me. :)
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    J2JMC wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    I would never take a position where the argument is based off of ZOS' generosity lol. I just don't consider creating the class in itself an exploit. Only the steps taken to get to the point of being able to create the class.

    As far as I know people logged in, saw they could create the necromancer, and created one. I don't consider that exploiting as they were playing normally for all intents and purposes. Now, if there are specific steps being taken that don't fall into normal gameplay patterns (e.g., logging in and out 3 times within 10 seconds), then I would consider this an exploit.
    ...

    So you would consider someone logging on after a new patch, going straight to character creator and selecting Necromancer, which they did not previously have access to,
    to be them playing normally?
    If this patch were specifically noted in advance for adding a newly accessible class for everyone and Necromancer happened to be unlocked at the same time, that would strike me as more believable
    J2JMC wrote: »
    And in a general sense, there are issues with gameplay design, performance, and monetization that are much higher on my list of things to be frustrated about. A couple of people accessing the necromancer class through a bug on ZOS' end just does not concern me in the slightest.

    I will concede that I would be upset if ZOS decided to make Elsewyr a free update going forward because of this bug.

    Cannot agree here,
    people exploiting flaws with gameplay design, performance, and monetization are among the reasons why those same topics are issues for me to be frustrated about
    people exploiting to create Necromancers while they are bugged mean increased likelihood of my gameplay facing additional downtime or potential server rollbacks in fixing it

    ZOS making Elsweyr free for everyone else would bother me less than exploiters keeping exploited content tho, so clearly we have fairly different perceptions
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    Let us know how that works out for you, 'kay?
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • Parrot1986
    Parrot1986
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Davor wrote: »
    Dojohoda wrote: »
    OUCH That is a sticky mess bug.

    On the topic of deleting unauthorized necromancers- (if deleting) Will the inventory on those necros also get deleted?

    There is nothing unauthorized about it. Someone in Zenimax said release it, and so it was release AUTHORIZED. Not our fault Zenimax just like Bethesda don't do any QA or listen to their QA team. Once released it is intended. If a mistake was made, then it shouldn't have been authorized for release.

    So there is no unauthorized necromancers. They are all LEGAL since Zenimax authorized the release. Simple as that.

    Not a chance, zos release faulty code they can do what they need to do to fix that code and revert back to original and intended state. Legality won’t come into it and it’s clearly an error. If they promoted it then changed their mind and deleted all the alts then you’d have a leg to stand on.
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    The main thing I can imagine is a new player/player with no knowledge of Elsweyr or the game. They go to create a toon, and see an option for a necro among the classes, so they just pick that.

    I also think there are people who would legit think ZOS just made the necro class part of the base game. In my experience, if there is a misunderstanding that can occur someone will misunderstand it.

    Most people should realize this was a bug though

    fortunately tho, in such circumstances of legitimately new players,
    ZOS is going to be able to see a newly created account accessing the class compared to a month+ account familiar with Elsweyr being locked accessing this class

    They might not do anything about the character created while it was available. Too much risk of frustrating new players.
  • Davor
    Davor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bakermir wrote: »
    What do you mean "bug"?


    I just created and invested so much in my necromancer, I assumed this was free with new patch as a feature.

    Exactly. We don't know if it was a given feature for free or not. I don't stalk ESO for every little thing they do or offer.

    Also perfect example. Animation Cancelling. It's a bug turned into a feature. So how do we know this is not a feature? Zenimax never did say Animation Cancelling is a feature.

    It's not the user fault if all they did was play the game normally. The onus is on Zenimax no matter what their non legal binding TOS and EULA says.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    J2JMC wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    J2JMC wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I'm not going to be mad at someone getting free access to the necromancer class if they didn't intentionally exploit. Good for them. ...

    Is there any way to knowingly create a character class that you never purchased legitimate access to, and not be intentionally exploiting?
    like...are you taking the position that someone is going to meaningfully attempt to argue that they thought the new patch simply gave everyone access to the latest locked class just because ZOS is so generous?

    I would never take a position where the argument is based off of ZOS' generosity lol. I just don't consider creating the class in itself an exploit. Only the steps taken to get to the point of being able to create the class.

    As far as I know people logged in, saw they could create the necromancer, and created one. I don't consider that exploiting as they were playing normally for all intents and purposes. Now, if there are specific steps being taken that don't fall into normal gameplay patterns (e.g., logging in and out 3 times within 10 seconds), then I would consider this an exploit.

    And in a general sense, there are issues with gameplay design, performance, and monetization that are much higher on my list of things to be frustrated about. A couple of people accessing the necromancer class through a bug on ZOS' end just does not concern me in the slightest.

    I will concede that I would be upset if ZOS decided to make Elsewyr a free update going forward because of this bug.

    Your definition doesnt change what players agreed to:

    https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct

    5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.


    Players, knowingly or not, were most certainly abusing a bug with ESO's game system.

    You can make the same "playing normally" excuse for every exploit or bug players abuse.

    "I was playing normally in IC when mobs were giving me 1 million exp each!"

    "I was just making a new character and, wow, I can make the new necro class without having to pay for it!"
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    Cool. ...and interesting.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • Davor
    Davor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Samadhi wrote: »

    locking access to characters for people who have not purchased at the very least?
    or is this going to be another example of you guys telling us that as long as we exploit fast and quiet it will be allowed going forward as it has been in the past?

    Well I guess you can say that. After all Zenimax is not Bethesda where they punish people for their own mistakes. You really want Zenimax to become like Betehsda?
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

    Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.
    Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

    Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

    On the one hand, I get it. It was ZOS' mistake, and its nice for the few people who might have possibly innocently thought Necros were free to have their character.

    On the other hand, its disappointing, because honestly, there were lots of experienced players who should have known better and who just got away with exploiting a major bug.

    On the third hand, it reinforces that keeping my subscription active and supporting new chapters on release is redundant
    because a bit sketchy activity can make the game f2p
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Uryel
    Uryel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    UrQuan wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I mean, it really doesn't matter what the people who created necromancers without owning Elsweyr think. It's in the TOS to not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax; "

    ZOS is 100% within their legal rights to delete those characters
    Oh I agree, but I also guarantee that if they do that people who created unauthorized necromancers are going to be mad anyway. Especially if they bought crown store upgrades for those necromancers, or inventory upgrades, etc.

    They should know better, but that doesn't mean that people will actually take responsibility for doing something that they should have known not to do.

    Also, they could have acted in good faith, not even knowing they were exploiting a bug. You happen to create a new character, see necromancer available, use it, and are like "hey, cool thanks ZOS".

    Ignorance is not illegal, else we'd need a whole lot more prisons. That doesn't mean rules don't apply, though.There is a legal saying where I live that roughly translates as "even if you do not know the law, the law still applies to you", meaning you can't use "but I didn't know" as a defense in a court.

    On the other hand, intention is also a major factor in ruling a case. There is a HUGE difference between "I punched this guy because he insulted me, but I swear, your honor, I never, EVER thought he would die from a single punch !" and "It was my intention from the start to punch that guy to death, sucker hitting the bucket after one punch saved me some effort. of course, I'm assuming that those statement are true in both case, for the sake of argumentation.

    This is going to be very interesting.
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, is this sanctioned until they fix it? I have an account without Elswey (yet) that can benefit from this.... what to do....
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Jeremy wrote: »
    I would not consider this an exploit.

    I can create a Warden now on my account. Yet I never purchased Morrowind or purchased the skill line from the crown store. ...

    May have missed it, but did ZOS add Warden to the main game
    or is this your way of saying that the bug extends to both of the purchasable classes?

    Warden is still showing as a purchased Class upgrade when viewing the Crown Shop from here
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    So, is this sanctioned until they fix it? I have an account without Elswey (yet) that can benefit from this.... what to do....

    Seems like the green light is given.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
Sign In or Register to comment.