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Trading System is absolutely vile
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rain.bird✭✭the dumpster fire that is this games "economic system" burns glorious and bright ...
"thats what happens to exploited games ... people leave them ..."
yes, and then the popcorn runs out ...3 -
DragonRacer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"The statement "this is how world economy works" is entirely false... when is the last time you bought anything in the real world that you could turn around and sell for more money legally??? It was never.. you never did that."
eBay is literally filled with folks who do this. They acquire an abandoned item from the curb and clean it up, then re-sell as "chic furniture". Or they buy cheap items at thrift stores and yard sales - things that may be antique or collectible or that otherwise its value does not seem know to the seller - and then list at a higher price in an antique shop, consignment shop, or eBay.
On a larger, not personal level, house flippers also come to mind...PS5 NA. GM of The PTK's - a free trading guild (CP 500+). Also a werewolf, bites are free when they're available. PSN = DragonRacer134 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭i'll be glad to sell all i have, don't care for what purpose. I rarely ever buy anything, only what i can't get myself, like Elsweyr overland sets. So i don't really care. If people pay for a price, then sales will be done. If something is sold at more than it's worth its price, stop buying it and price will lower.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube1 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Not sure I agree with all your points but I do agree with you on 1 thing. The auction system in the game is horrible. A basic core part of a MMO that does not allow for everyone to fully participate.
Not true. Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! you are fully participating. "But I can't pay the dues!" then join trading guild with no or very small dues. Yes there are plenty. Yes you can find them in the guild finder.
Again, not true. there are just over 210 traders in the game. If every trader had 500 players behind it, that is 105,000 players that can trade. If everyone is in 2 trading guilds, that number drops to around 50K players.
So as you can see by the numbers. Not everyone can participate. That is why I want to increase the numbers of traders out there so that more people who want to participate can participate. I don't want to trash the existing system, just expand it to be more inclusive.
My goal is to be able to go to my local traders when i'm looking for some crafting materials (the low value stuff) and actually find something that isnt 100+ gold per item.2 -
jdamuso✭✭✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »Jayman1000 wrote: »Not sure I agree with all your points but I do agree with you on 1 thing. The auction system in the game is horrible. A basic core part of a MMO that does not allow for everyone to fully participate.
Not true. Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! you are fully participating. "But I can't pay the dues!" then join trading guild with no or very small dues. Yes there are plenty. Yes you can find them in the guild finder.
Again, not true. there are just over 210 traders in the game. If every trader had 500 players behind it, that is 105,000 players that can trade. If everyone is in 2 trading guilds, that number drops to around 50K players.
So as you can see by the numbers. Not everyone can participate. That is why I want to increase the numbers of traders out there so that more people who want to participate can participate. I don't want to trash the existing system, just expand it to be more inclusive.
My goal is to be able to go to my local traders when i'm looking for some crafting materials (the low value stuff) and actually find something that isnt 100+ gold per item.
Any way to make fixes to the system is a good suggestion. More of this kind of comment would be great..
Ive suggested Bind on Sale, which is drastic but 100% guaranteed to solve the issue.
More creative solutions are extremely welcomed.
(Trashing me for highlighting an obvious issue, not as much.)
Expansion might help, the gold sink of bidding on guild traders isnt quite working as intended... there's just to much gold in the game, spreading it out may help.1 -
thermatico✭✭✭✭This games trading system is BY FAR the easiest to make money at. All it takes is time and a little knowledge of what's selling.0 -
Maxx7410✭✭✭✭Naaa i buy from my broke guild and sale in my others guild normaly i lost money haha and i make free equipment to new players (yesterday i even make legendary weapons free yes i am that stupid haha)0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip]thermatico wrote: »This games trading system is BY FAR the easiest to make money at. All it takes is time and a little knowledge of what's selling.
[snip]
See, I don't think you actually know how a free market works. If an item has no value or if it is overpriced, that price will eventually come down since noone will be buying the item. There is no misuse in reselling items. There is no misuse in flipping items. There is no detriment to new players. A new player has zero reason to need to go and find a BIS item set. A new player should be learning the game and taking advantage of the numerous avenues available to them to get into trading, and other end game content. This whole thread is a veiled complaint that you cannot find items for the price YOU think is fair rather than the price that the market has deemed to be the price.
And there are plenty of IRL examples of market places flipping items for more money, entire industries revolve around this concept. You can't just shut it down because you don't want to pay for an item. That isn't how a free market works.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 5:59PM2 -
thermatico✭✭✭✭must be mottifs
Well motifs were at an all time low because of the Jubilee event so everyone knows those prices were going back up... The ones in the 300-800k range were Cold Snap and one other I can't recall... and that's because they were dropping before they were supposed to so prices skyrocketed when the only ones looted in that "pre-release" window were the ones for sale.Edited by thermatico on July 15, 2019 8:40PM0 -
SCSpecter✭✭Completely ignoring the fact that apps like Band exist and you can bypass the guild trader extremely easy and make good money.
The claim that not enough people can participate in an already difficult to use system is misguided when you can sell what you need fairly quickly on third parties with your phone.0 -
Maxx7410✭✭✭✭i understand the mottif are the best example of the market working when there is a lot of supply the price crash, but when the supply is low and the demand is high the prices skyrocket is normal. if you have to play a lot of time to have a chance of geting a rare mottif or you can buy it, is logic that it will cost considerably0
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thermatico✭✭✭✭i understand the mottif are the best example of the market working when there is a lot of supply the price crash, but when the supply is low and the demand is high the prices skyrocket is normal. if you have to play a lot of time to have a chance of geting a rare mottif or you can buy it, is logic that it will cost considerably
I agree with you... I am really interested in what exactly he is talking about in the market. Something obviously triggered this post.1 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭so.. just another thread about AH and how good it is...
ok
for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money (not occasional casual selling 1 stack in a week
for 20gold but many-many thousands per week)
there was another guy who totally controlled herbs resources etc...
with global AH it is SO easy to manipulate prices when you have enough resources...
P.S.edited a little after reading OP's last answer
Edited by Darkenarlol on July 15, 2019 8:59PM1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YaYaPineapple wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Ah... that standard response from all who are panicked that their own little bubble might be burst if Zos used some common sense and added an Global Auction House.
What advantage do auctions have over straight selling of items? Do you want to turn the item sales market into eBay? Or we'd need to place bids hoping to win items instead of just buying those items?
A GAH Always has an instant buy option. The lowest priced of the item you are searching for is generally listed First. Bidding is actually very rare, and generally happens when the seller goofed and put the bid price very low as compared to the 'sell now' price.
The GAH is quick, efficient, and allows you to see ALL of the listings from Everyone in the entire game, unlike the trader system which requires you to physically visit Every trader in the game in order to see All the options.
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭EirgarthEldjarns wrote: »
He's not asking how to make money, he's complaining about the trading system.
Even if 55K isn't excessive for a staff, that doesn't change the fact that it is a massive pita to try to track down a specific item, with a specific trait, just to travel to the store to find it has already sold.
Actually, in their original statement, they were talking about 55k (min) for a staff where there were over 250 avail. How would a centralized trader fix that? Hell, it would make it easier for the reseller to just buy from any trader portal and hoard or resell.
It would make it a lot easier to go and buy something, because if the cheapest item with the correct trait had already sold, you could obviously find another one immediately on a centralised trader.
Without having to tab back out to the TTC website, search through the multiple pages full of items with different traits and then travel to the next guild store, just to find that one has sold out, as well and so on...
Personally, I have more of a problem selling items with different traits, as I can't check TTC quickly to see what I should be listing them for.
As opposed to other, non-traited, items which are far easier to check.
Although, still not easy, due to the multiple re-listings of the same guild store listings.
Many of which, at the lower end, have already sold.
Or, perhaps, were never genuine listings, in the first place.Edited by Tigerseye on July 15, 2019 9:10PM0 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I used to hate the trading system until I realized it's part of this game. Not a part I'm personally interested of but still something some people play hadcore. For us casuals, there is plenty of very useful non-bis stuff to buy in reasonable price and one can always dump sellables to guild store in bargain price and let more dedicated guildies handle it.
you're right. Arbitrage is part of every game with a trade system. Secondly, the flippers are doing you a service. You now don't need to go out to some far-off trader in who knows where, you can pick up what you need in your preferred town for a bit of a premium. You still want deals? Scour for them like the flippers do. Anyone can do it. Trade is the game I enjoy. All of us started with nothing.1 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonRacer wrote: »"The statement "this is how world economy works" is entirely false... when is the last time you bought anything in the real world that you could turn around and sell for more money legally??? It was never.. you never did that."
eBay is literally filled with folks who do this. They acquire an abandoned item from the curb and clean it up, then re-sell as "chic furniture". Or they buy cheap items at thrift stores and yard sales - things that may be antique or collectible or that otherwise its value does not seem know to the seller - and then list at a higher price in an antique shop, consignment shop, or eBay.
On a larger, not personal level, house flippers also come to mind...
Agree. My sister owns a company in which she and a few others do exactly this, but through Amazon. And she does pretty well for herself. She buys books, etc, and resells them online.1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »I used to hate the trading system until I realized it's part of this game. Not a part I'm personally interested of but still something some people play hadcore. For us casuals, there is plenty of very useful non-bis stuff to buy in reasonable price and one can always dump sellables to guild store in bargain price and let more dedicated guildies handle it.
you're right. Arbitrage is part of every game with a trade system. Secondly, the flippers are doing you a service. You now don't need to go out to some far-off trader in who knows where, you can pick up what you need in your preferred town for a bit of a premium. You still want deals? Scour for them like the flippers do. Anyone can do it. Trade is the game I enjoy. All of us started with nothing.
To answer your question - NO... I don't want 'deals'. I don't care about 'deals'.
What I want is to be able to see all the listings of the item I want to buy, quickly and efficiently, so I can make a decision as to IF I want to spend the gold or not.
The trader system does Not do this.
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StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Tiger, you're right, but not for the reasons you suggest. I don't mind a change to the current trade system because I'd love to see it more inclusive and less ... well... stupid. I have no real opinion on GAH or no GAH. But I am interested in what other people think, and since this is my favorite part of the game, I click the link to read someone's opinion. A lot of those opinions are based on misconceptions or this idea that rich traders are a conspiratorial cartel of horrible greedy people. So we try to correct that misconception, but people love to have someone to hate. In this case, it's the "rich" - an easy target in all societies. So yes, I do pounce on these topics and try to correct things, and I am invested in "a" trade system, but would be happy to see positive and intelligent change that included more people.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:15PM3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »so.. just another thread about AH and how good it is...
ok
for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money (not occasional casual selling 1 stack in a week
for 20gold but many-many thousands per week)
there was another guy who totally controlled herbs resources etc...
with global AH it is SO easy to manipulate prices when you have enough resources...
P.S.edited a little after reading OP's last answer
Central auction houses can indeed be manipulated.....temporarily.
However, at least you don't have to travel miles for the privilege of finding out they have been (as TTC is permanently out of date, so you can't rely on it).
...and if someone does decide to break that manipulated monopoly and lists at a decent price, if you camp the centralised auction house you have as much chance of getting that reasonably priced item as the flippers do.
Whereas, in the guild store system, if you're not a professional flipper, so don't stay glued to TTC 24/7 and don't camp lots of different traders, on multiple chars permanently, you don't have much chance of getting the reasonably priced item here, if a determined flipper is on the case.
Or, more likely, a small group of them.
This in turn makes flipping more rewarding, so increases the number of flippers and so on...Edited by Tigerseye on July 15, 2019 9:42PM1 -
Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I agree that the trading system in this game is pretty ass...55k a drop in the bucket. You can literally make that in a few hours as other people have mentioned.2 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well I agree with the revolting part. *LOL* j/k. Anyway you're wrong here. I don't even USE ttc unless I'm in a situation where i need a particular recipe and then I'm like every other consumer trying to find one. Then, it is useful.
I do all flipping pretty much, and I do it my own way, without any assistance from ttc (in terms of finding things - I do use it to compare prices). None. But I still find deals and enough to stock several trade guilds full of inventory. TTC /= flippers. You are painting in far too broad a stroke.
Edited by StabbityDoom on July 15, 2019 9:47PM2 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I used to not like the trading system... but then I joined a top trading guild. I used to worry about sales requirements etc... which kept me from joining a high end trading guild, but honestly, once you're in one making money is trivial. I no longer need to sell under market value to get things to sell.PC/EU DC0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Luigi_Vampa wrote: »I used to not like the trading system... but then I joined a top trading guild. I used to worry about sales requirements etc... which kept me from joining a high end trading guild, but honestly, once you're in one making money is trivial. I no longer need to sell under market value to get things to sell.
It was like that for a while, for me, too.
But, then the GM decided to invite loads of new players and changed the official advice to "cancel and relist every 3 days" and my weekly sales went from around 150K+, to around 20K (if that).
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jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭The trader re-selling and trade guild price gouging is disgusting. anything and everything worth buying is constantly being bought up by players with billions of gold and being re-sold at unreasonable prices. [snip]
Howabout account binding items sold through traders huh?
Even to obtain a trader you have to compete with this garbage, which is just encouraging the practice...
And before you come back with some snub retort to the point.... empirical evidence: the cheapest purple inferno staff of a mother's sorrow on the market is 55k yet there are well over 260 of this item available on the market right now. Suggesting there is not the demand for the supply. If it was rare enough to be so valuable then okay. but they are clearly its not that rare if there are 260 of it not being sold...
Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....
Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.
The only saving grace of this game... is that i dont mind farming stuff myself, and thank the lord for that, because the economy is a complete embarrassment.
Welcome to mmos, ONLY mmo that does not suffer this badly us bdo due to set price ranges
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:11PMIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »so.. just another thread about AH and how good it is...
ok
for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money (not occasional casual selling 1 stack in a week
for 20gold but many-many thousands per week)
there was another guy who totally controlled herbs resources etc...
with global AH it is SO easy to manipulate prices when you have enough resources...
P.S.edited a little after reading OP's last answer
Interesting that you don't complete everything about the situation.
If you decide to corner the market and then set prices Higher, you are required to buy absolutely Everyone else's item. They can now set their price just under your price and you Have to buy it. People don't care Who they sell to. If you want to buy everything, feel free. You are not awake and online 24/7 - unless you are using a bot program to Cheat. And if that was happening, it would not be hard to determine since every item listed always shows who listed it, and who bought it can be tracked.
As far as price fixing, the trader system is no different. I have already seen the abuse. Went looking for a motif piece. All the pieces for this motif sold in the 5k to 10k range. Except One piece. That was listed at 197,777 gold. Spent over an hour running around to various places. Was easy to find. Always listted at 197,777 gold. IN this game, cheating and fixing prices is easier than cornering a GAH market.
All it takes is 2 accounts. Account 1 lists the item for 197,777. You then buy back the item for 197,777 with account 2. Now its on record, using the addon, as having been sold for 197,777 - so OBVIOUSLY that must be what it's worth.
This trader system is more susceptible to price fixing than a GAH, IMHO. As you stated, with a GAH you have to have the millions in resources in order to corner the market on one item. You don't need anywhere near that much resources to fix prices in the trader system.
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here's the bottom line...
Leave the Trader system as is.
ADD a Global Auction house.
Then we will definitively see which system the majority of the players prefers. 6 -
thermatico✭✭✭✭This game can't handle a Guild Finder system. I imagine a single global auction house would put the nail in the coffin.2