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Trading System is absolutely vile
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! y
Except we know that isn't true.
If every Kiosk were maximally stocked, and every player in a Trade Guild only had access to one Kiosk (both of which we know are not happening) there current system would still exclude 90% of player from trading.
There simply aren't enough "selling slots" for every player to have access to them.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.8 -
marke1✭✭✭A global AH where they restrict the number of trades you can make per day would go a long way to help people especially leveling . By putting a few limits on day trading it prevents people controlling the market but still gives casuals a place to move some excess gear or mats . If you want to do big trades then go thru the traders.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money
Mmmm, no you didn't.
Screenshots or it didn't happen.
Every MMORPG I have played except ESO has a Global Trade or Auction system.
I've seen defenders of ESO's system claim time and time again that "cornering a market" with an AH is easy.
And in 10+ years of playing such games, sometimes for 60 hours a week, I have NEVER SEEN IT ONCE.
So unless you present Screenies to support your claim I am calling [snip]
All The Best
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:53PMThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.8 -
Malacthulhu✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Not sure I agree with all your points but I do agree with you on 1 thing. The auction system in the game is horrible. A basic core part of a MMO that does not allow for everyone to fully participate.
Not true. Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! you are fully participating. "But I can't pay the dues!" then join trading guild with no or very small dues. Yes there are plenty. Yes you can find them in the guild finder.
I'm pretty sure there aren't enough guild stores that everyone can join one. Mathematically speaking, there is a definite limit to the number of people who can use this system and I'm fairly certain that limit is lower than the total number of people playing the game.
Besides basically saying you have no clue but believe you anyway.
Here are some rough facts.
As I recall there is at least 195 traders. 500 per guild is 97500 players. Pretty sure not all 97500 positions are taken. Nice try though.
Another fact, at least half of them suck lmao.
Xbox One Na1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YaYaPineapple wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »
Ah, gotcha. Sorry for jumping the gun. I've had a lot of, er, unpleasant exchanges that involved lots of debate over jargon and people actually doing the online equivalent of yelling at me for explaining lines of thinking-- as if I was actually the one making an argument one way or another
How about, "Global Trader System?" Or "Universal Trader System?" Gives it a bit of the 'ole ESO spin
That made me think of a centralized market, but where the current trader NPCs would act as access points to the global/central/universal trader market, retaining a bit of ESO flavor. They are already sprinkled all over Tamriel, even near far-flung wayshrines, so it would keep that feel of seeking a trader in a near by town, and spread players out a bit so they aren't all crowded in one place trying to access the market.
Like a storefront to the vast player marketplace? That would be pretty cool
A lot of the MMOs I've played have some slight variant on that theme, but I do kind of like some of the traders' personalities.
The closest I can think of is GW2's Black Lion personnel. There are about 3-6 per city and several scattered around various maps. They're of different races but none of them have actual personalities like ESO's traders. That would be a neat little immersive touch to shopping and selling.1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A global AH where they restrict the number of trades you can make per day would go a long way to help people especially leveling . By putting a few limits on day trading it prevents people controlling the market but still gives casuals a place to move some excess gear or mats . If you want to do big trades then go thru the traders.
Most AH do have sales limits. Some put limited bind timers on purchased items so they can't be flipped immediately. Automated cooldown timers if a person is trading too fast can put the brakes on botting. I've seen all of these controls placed on buying and selling in different AHs in other games. I can't count how many times I've run afoul of GW2's transaction speed filter 1 -
Urigall✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »There simply aren't enough "selling slots" for every player to have access to them.
Arithmetically, that statement is correct: there are nowhere near enough trader slots to accommodate the number of ESO players.
Conversely, the rate of turnover in trade guilds is very high. I know of five guilds that are always highlighting the fact that they have places. I know this is correct from experience. I double checked my most recent, guild advisory update to confirm that point.
The rate of trader turnover is, mainly, a corollary to some traders being either unable to meet their sales targets (particularly in guilds with high sales targets) or traders who are unwilling to maintain the time input that is required to meet those targets. In short, traders leave guilds on a frequent basis, thus freeing up slots.
If guilds did not enforce sales targets, yes, it is almost certain that demand for trader slots would far outstrip supply. Under the present system, GMs have no option other than to enforce sales targets. That has the effect of creating a higher rate of slot turnover as traders leave the guild. Either the trader can't be arsed any more or they get kicked out for not meeting their targets. So slots are constantly available. The caveat is the slots are only available to players who can meet the sales targets.
Even guilds that don't charge a fee often have slots available. The downside is such guilds usually don't facilitate a high rate of sales turnover.
It is correct to say there are more slots than players on a purely arithmetic basis. It is incorrect to say players can't find a slot. They can find a slot, with the caveat that they have to be prepared to devote some effort to trading. Whether this is a good thing, or a bad thing, is a minefield of game play philosophy.
Is there a latent demand for a less demanding form of trading? Truth is, no-one knows, unless they have access to thoroughly researched data. There is SOME support for a less demanding system. Whether the level of support is 20% 40% or 50% of the player base...no-one knows. The only way to test the level of demand would be to either get rid of sales targets (unpossible under the current system) or set up a global AH.
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Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭{snip for brevity}
Is there a latent demand for a less demanding form of trading? Truth is, no-one knows, unless they have access to thoroughly researched data. There is SOME support for a less demanding system. Whether the level of support is 20% 40% or 50% of the player base...no-one knows. The only way to test the level of demand would be to either get rid of sales targets (unpossible under the current system) or set up a global AH.
another option would be to increase the number of available traders without having to go the AH route. IF all trading guilds that want a trader are able to get one, then I think you have reached the point that you can see the demand/supply.0 -
Urigall✭✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »{snip for brevity}
Is there a latent demand for a less demanding form of trading? Truth is, no-one knows, unless they have access to thoroughly researched data. There is SOME support for a less demanding system. Whether the level of support is 20% 40% or 50% of the player base...no-one knows. The only way to test the level of demand would be to either get rid of sales targets (unpossible under the current system) or set up a global AH.
another option would be to increase the number of available traders without having to go the AH route. IF all trading guilds that want a trader are able to get one, then I think you have reached the point that you can see the demand/supply.
Hello Thorvik - that could be one way of getting a handle on how many players do want to trade. Agreed.
Would possibly still be affected by the sales target factor though. Some players might still be unwilling to participate if there were demanding targets.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »{snip for brevity}
Is there a latent demand for a less demanding form of trading? Truth is, no-one knows, unless they have access to thoroughly researched data. There is SOME support for a less demanding system. Whether the level of support is 20% 40% or 50% of the player base...no-one knows. The only way to test the level of demand would be to either get rid of sales targets (unpossible under the current system) or set up a global AH.
another option would be to increase the number of available traders without having to go the AH route. IF all trading guilds that want a trader are able to get one, then I think you have reached the point that you can see the demand/supply.
Hello Thorvik - that could be one way of getting a handle on how many players do want to trade. Agreed.
Would possibly still be affected by the sales target factor though. Some players might still be unwilling to participate if there were demanding targets.
Pointless there are already more than enough slot for everyone to trade. Guilds are always scrounging for new players to trade
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Urigall✭✭✭
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.Edited by Jeremy on July 16, 2019 12:55AM0 -
Isteris✭✭✭here's the thing, i have loads of gold , probs more than i could reasonably spend but i have never flipped stuff from the guild traders. everything i sell is picked up, farmed or made by me. for me trading is just another game in game and i dont think GAH will make the difference that some posters are hoping for, the very rich will still buy short and sell long, the market sets the price, take ancient orc motifs, at christmas 30 to 80k now much less but come late november it will go high again. you can only price at a rate folks will pay, few k to much and it will sit in the guild trader for 30 days and come back to you in the mail and cant see GAH changing the market but what i do think it would do is make trading more doable for a lot more players, more players with more gold to spend so 50k for divine necropotence shoes wont feel like the massive amount of gold it does now so the price wont drop with over supply like it does now.0 -
Sixsixsix161✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »
Ah... that standard response from all who are panicked that their own little bubble might be burst if Zos used some common sense and added an Global Auction House.
The fact that adding a GAH to the game would put the current system right out of business shows which system is better And which system the Majority of the players want to use.
And so the millionaires rail against it.
Now you got a global auction house.. cool
What is stopping those 'billionaires' from buying up anything cheap and re-list it for more?
Now they don't even have to go from trader to trader to snap up bargains.. they just sit in at the auction house...
Not how it works. As soon as they purchase anything cheap and list it for more, someone will come along and put cheaper items below them. I myself, several times, shut down players intending to corner the market. Only takes a day or two. And this always works because players are looking for cheaper items. And if the rich player purchases these items, too, others just keep posting their items. Eventually, the rich guy reaches a point where he no longer can afford to purchase all those items, and now has to start selling them - at a great loss.
After participating for 15 years in WoW's auction house, and several years in D3's Gold Auction House (GAH) and Real Money Auction House (RMAH), I've seen those things, and others, tried, and mostly failed.
Now, there were occasions when someone posted something that for some reason was grossly below what the asking price should have been - but most of the time that was due to an error on the sellers part - and those items were sold soon, and relisted at a higher price. But, that usually was due to a multiplication problem on the sellers part, not because someone was trying to corner the market for a specific item.
D3s fatal assumption was that everyone wanted to participate in the Real Money Auction House - which wasn't happening, although some player made large sums of money. Blizzard then panicked and decided to delete both auction houses from D3, instead of just the RMAH, leaving the GAH to help the economy, just as it does in WoW. NOTE: There were some other issues included in the closing of the RMAH, mainly the legality of selling items from in-game for real money, and how different countries looked at that. And there was a question about paying taxes. So, that RMAH turned into a great mess. This also added to the kneejerk reaction by Blizzard to close both AHs.
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Urigall✭✭✭
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
I should have added a bit about that point - guilds that have trade offshoots. I'm in one and its trading sub-guild doesn't have sales requirements. There are probably a few others of the same type. But they'll be reserved for players who are members of the parent guild.
Maybe...what...10-20 proper trade guilds with no fees? A guess. Say they have 100 free slots at any one time. Again, a guess. Could accommodate 1,000-2.000 potential traders.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The trader re-selling and trade guild price gouging is disgusting. anything and everything worth buying is constantly being bought up by players with billions of gold and being re-sold at unreasonable prices. The amount of gold being farmed out of the game is obscene and being filtered into the pocket of a handful of the community creating an economically dystopian capitalist garbage dump.
Howabout account binding items sold through traders huh?
Even to obtain a trader you have to compete with this garbage, which is just encouraging the practice...
And before you come back with some snub retort to the point.... empirical evidence: the cheapest purple inferno staff of a mother's sorrow on the market is 55k yet there are well over 260 of this item available on the market right now. Suggesting there is not the demand for the supply. If it was rare enough to be so valuable then okay. but they are clearly its not that rare if there are 260 of it not being sold...
Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....
Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.
The only saving grace of this game... is that i dont mind farming stuff myself, and thank the lord for that, because the economy is a complete embarrassment.
This isn't possible because the guild trader system is different from your average auction house system and prevents market manipulation.
TTC defies your premisePoor poor jdamuso. He can not control his authoritarian tendency! the free market is like kryptonite for him poor poor thingthermatico wrote: »This games trading system is BY FAR the easiest to make money at. All it takes is time and a little knowledge of what's selling.
I have no issues making money, i have no issues trading, i have 14 toon 10 of them are muling complete gear sets.
I have four trade guild and im often rewarded as one of the top sellers. NONE OF WHICH is re-selling. I know how to farm, i know how to play, i know how to trade, you probably couldnt kill me in a 1v1 if your life depended on it as i can tank 20+ guys in cyro on a regular basis.
I have no authoritarian issue, identifying a broken system is not me being a control freak. Its me rebelling against injustice.
I do not NEED to buy ANYTHING on the market, I am a producer, i make my own supplies, I buy raw and sell low. You buy my low and sell high, and the poor noob that started yesterday gets none...
A successful game caters to its new players, this provides a healthy community, this community exploits new players, that is how games die.
This is about how disgusting i find it that when i actually do want to go find ANYTHING on the market, and i use this TTC garbage game killing website, every item at a fair value has been bought and marked up 3000% and i find it repulsive. and i go farm said item instead.
And i would much rather enjoy using the free market instead of being disgusted by mis-use.
Trashing me in this way is only re-enforcing my points made, so if it makes you feel better please continue to trash me, since you clearly have no VALID way to defend against my points made. GG
See, I don't think you actually know how a free market works. If an item has no value or if it is overpriced, that price will eventually come down since noone will be buying the item. There is no misuse in reselling items. There is no misuse in flipping items. There is no detriment to new players. A new player has zero reason to need to go and find a BIS item set. A new player should be learning the game and taking advantage of the numerous avenues available to them to get into trading, and other end game content. This whole thread is a veiled complaint that you cannot find items for the price YOU think is fair rather than the price that the market has deemed to be the price.
And there are plenty of IRL examples of market places flipping items for more money, entire industries revolve around this concept. You can't just shut it down because you don't want to pay for an item. That isn't how a free market works.
Which example? you stated theres and example of item reselling IRL? which?
ALSO the item has value but when every item is bought up and the re-priced at 3000% the original value, thats a farsed value...
there is no threshold for the ammout of items players can buy to manipulate the market as tehre's to much gold in the economy..
IRL you cannot produce gold by farming mobs and then use it to manipulate global economy.
Price gouging in a real world economy creates outrage, its creating outrage now in this virtual economy.thermatico wrote: »Poor poor jdamuso. He can not control his authoritarian tendency! the free market is like kryptonite for him poor poor thingthermatico wrote: »This games trading system is BY FAR the easiest to make money at. All it takes is time and a little knowledge of what's selling.
I have no issues making money, i have no issues trading, i have 14 toon 10 of them are muling complete gear sets.
I have four trade guild and im often rewarded as one of the top sellers. NONE OF WHICH is re-selling. I know how to farm, i know how to play, i know how to trade, you probably couldnt kill me in a 1v1 if your life depended on it as i can tank 20+ guys in cyro on a regular basis.
I have no authoritarian issue, identifying a broken system is not me being a control freak. Its me rebelling against injustice.
I do not NEED to buy ANYTHING on the market, I am a producer, i make my own supplies, I buy raw and sell low. You buy my low and sell high, and the poor noob that started yesterday gets none...
A successful game caters to its new players, this provides a healthy community, this community exploits new players, that is how games die.
This is about how disgusting i find it that when i actually do want to go find ANYTHING on the market, and i use this TTC garbage game killing website, every item at a fair value has been bought and marked up 3000% and i find it repulsive. and i go farm said item instead.
And i would much rather enjoy using the free market instead of being disgusted by mis-use.
Trashing me in this way is only re-enforcing my points made, so if it makes you feel better please continue to trash me, since you clearly have no VALID way to defend against my points made. GG
What specifically are you talking about being marked up 3000%? I know what sales and nothing really popular has fluctuated like that.
Inflation is part of any economy.
Inflation is not part of an economy that is flooded with products for sale.
Your car doesn't inflate in price when you buy it, it worth 40% of what you paid for it the second you buy it,Completely ignoring the fact that apps like Band exist and you can bypass the guild trader extremely easy and make good money.
The claim that not enough people can participate in an already difficult to use system is misguided when you can sell what you need fairly quickly on third parties with your phone.
This app is not part of the game, its third party, we are talking about rectifying the problem with the game and already idenDarkenarlol wrote: »so.. just another thread about AH and how good it is...
ok
for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money (not occasional casual selling 1 stack in a week
for 20gold but many-many thousands per week)
there was another guy who totally controlled herbs resources etc...
with global AH it is SO easy to manipulate prices when you have enough resources...
P.S.edited a little after reading OP's last answer
I never said anything about a global AHthermatico wrote: »i understand the mottif are the best example of the market working when there is a lot of supply the price crash, but when the supply is low and the demand is high the prices skyrocket is normal. if you have to play a lot of time to have a chance of geting a rare mottif or you can buy it, is logic that it will cost considerably
I agree with you... I am really interested in what exactly he is talking about in the market. Something obviously triggered this post.
Im triggered because ive notice the trend with EVERY item. not just mothers sorrow not just motifs. everything. and i am identifying the #1 cause as third party programs. TTC MM whatever that band thing is... The market should take place in game. TTC has allows price manipulation to run rampant to a catastrophic level.midgetfromtheshire wrote: »People would just buy the cheaper stuff to keep the higher priced items in supply.
EXACTLY because there is too much gold in the game. allowSaucy_Jack wrote: »I honestly don't know what logical basis the complaint about flipping items stands on.
Let's take it to a real world scenario. You're in a pawn shop. You see a valuable ring that, for whatever reason, the owner has listed for $5. Do you go around to all the other pawn shops and tell the owners to lower the prices of their valuable rings to $5? No, because that's stupid. Do you complain to the city council that the other pawn shops are driving up the prices of valuable rings? No, because that's also stupid. Do you sell off all your OWN valuable rings for $5? No, because that is *incredibly* stupid.
Instead, because you're NOT stupid, you grab the $5 valuable ring because it's a fantastic deal. You then wear it yourself if you personally like it, or sell for a boatload because historically, valuable rings sell for a lot more than $5.
If you don't have the time or the desire to check all the pawn shops in town for great deals - even with readily available online tools indicating pawn shop inventory and pricing - then I guess you don't get the good deals. That's not the pawn shop's fault; that's not the economic system that allows for pawn shops' fault; that's on you for having priorities that differ from actively searching out good deals.
I'm not sure why this concept is so hard to grasp.
Pawn shops sell items for far less than their original worth. ESO sell itemsStabbityDoom wrote: »I used to hate the trading system until I realized it's part of this game. Not a part I'm personally interested of but still something some people play hadcore. For us casuals, there is plenty of very useful non-bis stuff to buy in reasonable price and one can always dump sellables to guild store in bargain price and let more dedicated guildies handle it.
you're right. Arbitrage is part of every game with a trade system. Secondly, the flippers are doing you a service. You now don't need to go out to some far-off trader in who knows where, you can pick up what you need in your preferred town for a bit of a premium. You still want deals? Scour for them like the flippers do. Anyone can do it. Trade is the game I enjoy. All of us started with nothing.
Yes i will outrace the army of item flippers..... this is the point, 10 minutes after an item is posted its GONE, and marked up 3000%
This is not a feature of the game, its provided by a third party service. TTC and who knows what other addons people have?
possibly sending notifications when an item is listed under a certain price so the can go buy it up.
Finally.... there has been a person in craglorn recently buying dreugh wax "by the 1000s"
this is the punch.. "i will buy your dreugh wax by the 1000s..."
THOUSANDS.
This is SEVERE market manipulation..
This is not a healthy flow of supply and demand and market fluctuation..
This is market manipulation which is an entirely different thing.
What happens when someone in your home country buys ALL THE WATER?
and sells the WATER at un-affordable prices?
Well the country dies...
or the people revolt.
The game is going to die to this trend.
I am revolting.
I was being sarcastic Jdamasu. I essentially agree with you. I was just poking fun at the argument that this silly Guild Trader system prevented people from doing this - since that was a popular argument at the time against adding a global market system. People simply use add ons to buy low and sell high to manipulate the market the same way they would in any other economic system. The only difference here is it gives players who use these add ons massive economic advantages over those that don't - which makes the strategy even more effective than it would in the case of an auction house.
It's just a poor system all together and no longer has a single argument to its benefit. They should have dumped it long ago. The only thing it does is alienate newer players, force guilds and fees onto people - and widen the berth between players who use and don't use addons. Everything it brings to the table is negative. Nothing it brings is positive.
You are wrong on all accounts, but hey why bother with reason when you can make stuff up.
The system is not as poor as you try to assert and is way better than the very poor concept of a global market, it forces no fees in anyone, there are free traders readily available and no one is required to participate. Add ons are not required and I have never seen it alienate a single player. I have seen people like you though actually alienate new players from trying out a fun aspect of this game with all your garbage rants about the system.
Perhaps it would have bee more accurate to say it forces guilds or fees onto people. So a simple correction neutralizes your counter argument and secures what it was I really trying to say. And don't blame me or "people like me" for the fact a lot of newer players accustomed to auction houses hate this system. That's a cop out. I seriously doubt 99.9% of the people who hate this system even know who I am. So blaming me for that is ridiculous.
And add ons are required if you want to effectively buy low and sell high - unless you think someone is actually going to run around checking every guild trader on the game manually without having the faintest idea of what is there. So you can call my post a garbage rant if you like (if you think that was a "rant" you have obviously never seen a good rant) but I believe I'm correct to say add ons give players huge advantages over others when using this game's economic system - especially when it comes to manipulating it or buying low to sell high - or even simple tasks like knowing how to competitively price your item. So if you want to effectively use this game's economic system - yeah, add ons are pretty much required. Either that or people are asking or relying on people who do use these add ons to help them.
But anyway: give me one redeeming quality of this system over a global auction house. Just one? You say the system isn't as poor as I assert - well then prove me wrong then and explain what is so great about it. Because your opinion that it's more "fun" is extremely subjective and not one I share at all.Edited by Jeremy on July 16, 2019 1:14AM5 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »{snip for brevity}
Is there a latent demand for a less demanding form of trading? Truth is, no-one knows, unless they have access to thoroughly researched data. There is SOME support for a less demanding system. Whether the level of support is 20% 40% or 50% of the player base...no-one knows. The only way to test the level of demand would be to either get rid of sales targets (unpossible under the current system) or set up a global AH.
another option would be to increase the number of available traders without having to go the AH route. IF all trading guilds that want a trader are able to get one, then I think you have reached the point that you can see the demand/supply.
Hello Thorvik - that could be one way of getting a handle on how many players do want to trade. Agreed.
Would possibly still be affected by the sales target factor though. Some players might still be unwilling to participate if there were demanding targets.
Pointless there are already more than enough slot for everyone to trade. Guilds are always scrounging for new players to trade
My experience differs from yours. I know of at least a handfull of personal friends in the game that are in smaller trade guilds that cannot get a trader, and they do not want to join a trading guild that has any sort of sales quota's. Therefor I say that there are not enough traders to meet the demand for them. I'm also in 2 trading guilds that do not require sales quota's, but do ask for a contribution to the raffle which I find much easier to meet and more palatable to me than sales quota's.
I was surprised when I logged in tonight and noticed that my larger trade guild that had a trader in Anvil for the last 2-3 months did not have one today. o.O
The way that I interpret your post is join the old boys network, or dont trade. I feel that players should not have to do that. Simply increase the number of traders. Why should that be a big deal? We aren't trashing the existing system. We are expanding it to be more inclusive2 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.
Most trading guilds have some kind of requirements. If it's not fees or sales requirements, it's a raffle you have to participate in or something. There's probably a hand full of them out there who don't (possibly including the ones you name) but in my experience most actual trading guilds have requirements of some kind.3 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.
Most trading guilds have some kind of requirements. If it's not fees or sales requirements, it's a raffle you have to participate in or something. There's probably a hand full of them out there who don't (possibly including the ones you name) but in my experience most actual trading guilds have requirements of some kind.
They do not have that. It's highly encouraged and requested, but not required.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »StabbityDoom wrote: »
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.
Most trading guilds have some kind of requirements. If it's not fees or sales requirements, it's a raffle you have to participate in or something. There's probably a hand full of them out there who don't (possibly including the ones you name) but in my experience most actual trading guilds have requirements of some kind.
They do not have that. It's highly encouraged and requested, but not required.
Well in my experience they do. But seeing as neither of us have the statistics of what percentage of actual "trading" guilds do have requirements of some kind when compared to those who don't, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with one another and rely on the impressions our own experiences in-game have lead us to.Edited by Jeremy on July 16, 2019 1:33AM0 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »StabbityDoom wrote: »
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.
Most trading guilds have some kind of requirements. If it's not fees or sales requirements, it's a raffle you have to participate in or something. There's probably a hand full of them out there who don't (possibly including the ones you name) but in my experience most actual trading guilds have requirements of some kind.
They do not have that. It's highly encouraged and requested, but not required.
Well in my experience they do. But seeing as neither of us have the statistics of what percentage of actual "trading" guilds do have requirements of some kind when compared to those who don't, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with one another and rely on the impressions our own experiences in-game have lead us to.
No no I was talking about those guilds specifically. But yeah, I agree we need to disagree.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »StabbityDoom wrote: »StabbityDoom wrote: »
Wrong again, there are trade guilds that charge nothing and have no sales target
How many? Just curious.
Probably not many "trade guilds" be honest. Most guilds focused on trade have at least some requirements. But it's correct to say there are a lot of guilds out there you can use to access a guild trader who don't charge or have a sales requirement. But they're not really "trade" guilds.
Tell that to Insert Guild Name Here, Meat Market, Auction House, and Silk Road, to just name a few. They are trade guilds, have been around forever, don't have minimums or sale requirements.
Most trading guilds have some kind of requirements. If it's not fees or sales requirements, it's a raffle you have to participate in or something. There's probably a hand full of them out there who don't (possibly including the ones you name) but in my experience most actual trading guilds have requirements of some kind.
They do not have that. It's highly encouraged and requested, but not required.
Well in my experience they do. But seeing as neither of us have the statistics of what percentage of actual "trading" guilds do have requirements of some kind when compared to those who don't, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with one another and rely on the impressions our own experiences in-game have lead us to.
No no I was talking about those guilds specifically. But yeah, I agree we need to disagree.
I see. Well if you were just suggesting those specific trading guilds you mentioned don't have requirements, that's fine and I'd be inclined to take your word on that. My post was meant more generally to say that a majority of actual "trading" guilds do have requirements of some kind. But I"m sure there are exceptions. So if that was your only point - I can agree with you there - especially since you named them specifically.Edited by Jeremy on July 16, 2019 1:45AM1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can't lie and say I like the current system at all.
With no in game global search the system is cumbersome and inefficient to the player base.
The process of collecting funds, having raffles, internal auctions, etc to have the funding to secure a good spot instead of one in the vast wastelands means you have to essentially have another full time job just to be a GM of a trading guild.
The current system puts all the pain on the shoulders of of the players and takes it off of the developers that should have come up with a less intrusive system that can be policed properly.
Is a GAH the answer? maybe, maybe not. We will never know because they will NOT be changing the current system 5 years into the game in my opinion. I just feel the current system is very limiting unless you have the time and desire to put yourself through the pain and pressure of being a Trading Guild GM.
For full disclosure - I am in a great trading guild with a full time kiosk in Wayrest. You couldn't pay me to go through what my GM and the guild officers do every day to make sure we have a good trading spot secured. I gladly donate gold and items to the guild so I don't have to go through what I see them deal with on a daily basis.
Edited by Bouldercleave on July 16, 2019 2:43AM1 -
tahol10069✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Darkenarlol wrote: »for example with global AH in WoW i had total and absolute
control on server's prices in whole segment of metal crafting
resources with not a single chance for anyone to enter that
segment to make real money
Mmmm, no you didn't.
Screenshots or it didn't happen.
Every MMORPG I have played except ESO has a Global Trade or Auction system.
I've seen defenders of ESO's system claim time and time again that "cornering a market" with an AH is easy.
And in 10+ years of playing such games, sometimes for 60 hours a week, I have NEVER SEEN IT ONCE.
So unless you present Screenies to support your claim I am calling [snip]
All The Best
I've said this too before in other thread. Goes to deaf ears, like everything else. Also, thread has gone pretty much as I expected: OP's post was not about one staff and 55K, but most people get stuck on that (on purpose, I guess) or tried to derail the thread on some other way. Old tactics.
I'm always very surprised to realise how HUGE part of ESO player base obviously haven't played any other MMO than ESO, or maybe FIFA or some other cash grab trash. People even get stuck on the term Auction House, which is what global market in MMO's have been called since...well forever? Of all the games I've played, only TERA actually allowed real bidding and it was rarely used, people rather paid the direct asking price as it was easier and faster. But in early MMO's they were real auction houses, and the term stayed.
People really should go and play something else too, just to get some perspective on things and to see how well things can work. Even just to witness the miracle of an email that gives you your things the second you bought them and doesn't make you log out and back in just to get your items. Or witness a real search. Or generally see what it is to play a functioning game, where quality of life is at least sometimes seen more important than someones precious immersion (I just vomited little in my mouth just from that word).
Of course ZOS won't ever change this abomination they created. THY CAN'T. With that I mean: They have no skills, no means and no way to do it. They made a VERY stupid decision when they created the system that originally was meant to be working ONLY inside the guilds. Yep, I was following all this even before the beta. Their original idea was really that you have exactlyy max 2500 people to trade with. Trading kiosks was something that was added because of demand. Some person at the process of creating the game had an idea of this idiotic system and now we are stuck with it. Now it is coded in the system and there is no chance in hell it will be removed, unless the game goes through some major overhaul in the future that will change pretty much everything anyway.
Because of how things are, I really believe bought items should get bind to you and you can't resell them.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:52PM5 -
Censered✭✭✭
I spent a lot of time marketing on a number of games over the past 12 years.
I knew right off the bat that this is a terrible system and everything that I thought would be wrong with it, is wrong with it.
It's like deciding that instead of having a national market you force everyone to use farmers markets and on top of that you can only use 5 of them.
Then you have to beg over and over to join each one and hopefully you get good ones except with a limited consumer base every market is only going to have items that move fast limiting what items you will find. On top of that the buyers are hostage to the sellers so it's ripe for abuse.
With a global market it's a lot harder to push up the prices because as soon as you buy up all the items and list them for a higher price people will list their stuff for a reasonable price. You buy those up and people list more etc.5 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One thing -- the number of people who can sell through ANY guild trader is, I presume, on the order of 100,000 per server. For example:- If there were exactly 200 guild traders (probably low, even if we exclude the very low volume ones in Cyrodiil).
- If they were all full (close to true for the major ones, but I don't know about the more obscure locations).
- If players are in no more tha one trading guild each (obvious nonsense, and the real situation serves to lower the total number of people who are in such guilds).
then the figure of 100,000 would be exactly correct.
Edited by FrancisCrawford on July 16, 2019 4:59AM0