Trading System is absolutely vile

barney2525

Androconium wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Has anyone addressed the fact that like, less than a handful of people in game have control of capital city traders? Cause I feel like something that important shouldn't be in player hands, much less 10 random people.

Do you honestly think the gms of those guilds could do it without the 499 other people in their guilds, consistently? It's not in the hands of a few people. It's a LOT of people you are talking about.

So much this ^^^^

499 rolling in over 50 k per week in sales.
20 people donating 100K per week.
300 people donating 2-5K per week.

5-10 separate guilds contributing to the pot. That is at least 2 500 people contributing to whatever it is that is being complained about.

One of them takes it for the team and spends a week in Skywatch. Back next week.


It is NOT the system that is broken; this is how currently players use the current system to their advantage.
Bring in any other system, and they will find and exploit it any way they can. So why bother changing?

Because the current system DENIES some players the right to sell their items

barney2525

aaisoaho wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Barney, stop deluding yourself that Fang Lair chests sells for far more than the other pages in the motif because of market manipulation. It sells for far more because there is far more demand, as it allows people to outfit themselves skimpily.

Not true. All other pieces sell for 5 - 10k and there were fewer of the other pieces to be found than the chest pieces.. Setting the price at 197,777 just guarantees I buy it from the crown store, and in the process get the entire motif.

Sure is some brilliant trader strategy he said sarcastically

it IS actualy true. that chest is more expensive that even scalecaller chest, because is skimpy and closest thing you can get to Dark shaman costume. we had somilar thing happening with mazzatun pants cause its one of the few short skirts in a game. all the other pieces are far less in demand and thanks to anniversary event - are far more common. now, 200k is still a bit much, IMO, given that anniversary event made them more available, but that just means the seller's listing will sit there collecting dust and they will either have to lower the price or just not sell. if you'd rather buy it from crown store - that is your choice and a seller's loss. still not market manipulation. Fang lair is a pain to farm and chest doesn't drop very often to boot. now that its been a few months since anniversary event - prices for motifs are going up again.

but hey.. if you'd like to do your own farming and don't have a group to farm vet fang lair with, you COULD always just run a whole lot of battlegrounds and soon enough get a chest that looks almost identical to Fang Lair chest.

I picked up mazzatun skirt for around 20k. Fact is the Wood Elf medium shows more skin on females than Fang lair and you don't have to deal with the forearms being covered - which is part of the fang lair top. Is Fang lair rare to farm? Sure. But farming is certainly Not the only way to get it. Events boxes, it pops - that's how I got it on my first account. Have a subscription? Unless you had 0 credits to start with, in 3 months you can just buy the whole motif from the crown store - and in the process you don't have to buy ANY pieces from Sellers. You'd have a better point if you were talking about something that can't be bought in the crown store - but most of those items can't be Sold either.

But this is all a tangent. The point is the simple manipulation. When I spent a couple hours going to all the traders I could find, I found 8 chest pieces. EVERY ONE of them had the 197,777 price tag. I find it hard to believe that each seller road around for two hours, and the first person saw one at 197,777, and decided that was a good price to list it. If they are Sellers, on PC, (which is what I am on) they are going to use the addons. They check the addon and they see what the item has 'sold for'.

And THAT is the easiest thing in This trader system to Rig. It just takes 2 accounts. Account 1 sells for a ridiculous price, Account 2 buys it back. Rinse and repeat if you want. It is not costing the manipulator much, and they will make that gold back. So now it is registered in the Addons as having sold for the ridiculous price. Every other Seller checks the addon and thinks that people are really paying that much for the item. This is Waaaaayyy easier than trying to corner the market in a GAH.

IMHO

not sold for. listed for. and guess what? THIS SAME THING COULD AND DOES HAPPEN WITH GLOBAL TRADING. exactly the same thing and you don't even need 2 accounts for it. its actualy EASIER to do with global AH, because you don't have to travel around to buy all the listings to relist them. addons will still show the listing price (or if you are lazy like me, you just search for an item, see the other listed items, undercut it just slightly to put it at the top of the list and call it a day) and people will still try to list at it, and if they don't - their listing will be gone soon enough, leaving behind only your "average" price. i have seen it happen in WoW with rare pets and mounts and occasional transmog pieces. I have seen it happen in SWTOR. i have seen it happen in Neverwinter and SWL and GW2. people for the most part are going to try and list at an average. maybe slightly bellow average but not significantly so. and if you think that once in a blue moon someone doesn't come around and try to manipulate it with varying degree of success? i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. heck - you make this game global, its going to happen MORE often.

I bought mazatun skirt for a lot more then 20k. but thats because I bought it years ago, when it used to be rarer. shadows of hist was out 2 years longer then Fang lair (edited to correct the duration, hist was released in 2016 and Dragon Bones in 2018). the motif had a chance to drop in MULTIPLE anniversary events. it its now easier dungeon to farm then Fang lair. next year? Fang lair everything is going to be more common.

The difference using the GAH is quantity. No one is Denied the ability to put items up for sale the way this current system does. That means Every character in the game with items to sell Can list them on the GAH. It much more difficult to corner a market and try to buy everything with the intention of flipping because of the sheer amount of resources needed up front, as well as the amount needed to continuously buy every new listing of said item.

Our Trader system Denies players the ability to put items up for sale. That's a Fact. The numbers have already been shown. There is a finite number of traders and a Finite number of players allowed into a Trading guild. You do not get a lot of ' buy everything and resell it higher' with a GAH because of the sheer volume of players that can list items. Even iuf someone Does pull it off on some item, it doesn't last. one individual cannot keep up with the demand Every day to buy the items other people list.

If there is One thing that is just plain Wrong about this game, it is that All paying players are Not ALLOWED to put items up for sale.

IMHO

sigh. /shakes head. while yes, global trading system is theoretically more accessible to more people, a lot of people STILL don't use it to sell things. becasue they don't want to. moreover, becasue everything is centralized, its EASIER to keep track of everything that gets listed and buy up the outliers. the reason manipulation fails sooner or later, whether its ESO or any game with global trading system is exactly the same. people think there is a demand. people start farming more. market gets flooded. budding manipulator gives up. one individual cannot exactly keep up with manipulating ESO system either. there are just too many locations and too many people listing. yes, even in out limiting system, becasue there are a LOT of guilds and not as many people who want to utilize these guilds. literally, one individual in ESO cannot keep up with trying to manipulate common enough items in ESO, anymore than they can in centralized trading systems. meanwhile, i have personaly seen people corner market on rare drops in WoW. when you see pages of listings and they are all from the same name. I have seen this in SWTOR as well. it doesn't last unless the item is sufficiently rare to guarantee that supply is not going to be overwhelming. but it DOES happen. consistently.

getting into trading guilds in ESO is far easier than people make it out to be, and no, you do NOT need to be in a top guild to make decent income. good locations have higher traffic and things sell faster, but that's the thing, even in not ideal locations - things still sell!.

you are not forced to buy from major guild trader only. you can travel around and look for deals the same way your hypothetical market manipulators do!

and once again, i'm not against allowing everyone to list whether they are in a guild or not, I'm not against global trade systems on principle, on the contrary. all i'm saying while you are not listening is - GLOBAL TRADING DOES NOT FIX PRICING "ISSUES" THAT YOU KEEP INSISTING EXISTS WITH ESO. global systems have exact. same. pricing. "issues"

Well, you are welcome to that belief, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

In a GAH, where Every person in the game who wants to can list theirs, if ALL the Fang Lair chest pieces were listed, I guarantee they would not ALL be at 197,777. You might find that when it was first listed, but there would a whole string of options listed after that, each new listing undercutting the previous one.

That is how the open market Should work. With Everyone being allowed to be involved.

IMHO

can =/= does. moreover Fang Lair chest is an equivalent of a rare transmog drop in WoW. would you like to hop on and check how much THOSE go for and how much THOSE are monopolized? becasue you seem to be speaking purely in theoretical and i'm speaking from actual experience.

rare items cost more. rare items sometimes are subject to attempted manipulation, YES THAT INCLUDES GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE. becasue rare items drops are limited and are NOT infinite like you seem to believe. Fang Lair chest is NOT cornflower that everyone can farm at will. outside of the anniversary event - it requires a group capable of running vet fang lair AND a bit of luck with rng for the actual chest to drop.

at that listing price? those chests are not going to sell anymore than rare transmog sells in WoW at vastly above market price. if you would just, i don't know... practiced a tiny bit of PATIENCE.. you would see those listings not sell and eventualy drop back down in price to something closer to their actual current market price which is, last i checked about 40-50k give or take.

there are items in GAH that you will see maybe, if you are lucky - 3 or 4 listed. becasue they are rare. sometimes they are listed at obsenely high prices and guess what? the next day, there aren't pages of that same item listed inexplicably radicaly cheaper. becasue. its. RARE. and that has nothing to do with GAH.

Only if the Rare drop is truly Rare. And Fang Lair is NOT Rare.

Why?

Because there is more than One method of obtaining it. Let's take the actual situation.

I look for the chest piece, it is available for 197,777 gold, no matter where I go. However, it is also available in the Crown Store. I am a subscriber. I generate and save crowns every month.

Conclusion : Because the Gouger has it listed stupidly high, I simply buy it from the Crown store. In the process, I receive ALL the pieces of the motif, so other pieces that I might have bought from the Trader I no longer need to buy. The sellers of Those pieces now do not get a sale from me. The result - Zos gets my money, I get my motif, and the Traders get ZERO gold.

Just because they priced it stupidly high.

Great business plan <he said sarcastically>

Not everybody subs or buys crowns. For those of us who do not have such a luxury, our methoda of obtaining the said piece is to generate it via doing the content or buying from traders. (or buy crowns with gold)

The individual pieces are indeed rare. You can only get individual pieces from the said dungeon. The book is what, 5000 crowns in crown store? On PC-EU this is equal to 1.5 million gold. (because most of the time I see people selling 1 crown for 300 gold making 5000 crowns to be 300*5000 gold which equals to 1.5 million)

The fang lair chest motif is indeed pricier, because a lot of players wants it because how they look. The same happened with minotaur motifs when outfitting was released. Other minotaur pieces were selling for maybe 5 000 gold, but the chest piece was deemed to be worth 50 000 gold.


Why I like guild trading over global trading system? I think guild trading is a bit harder, more difficult way of trading. Increased difficulty means you need more skill to enjoy it - if they were to lower the skill level, I'd start to feel bored. Of course, this also means that players who starts to trying to master the art of trading in ESO will more likely feel anxiety comparing to the alternative. (global traders)

In guild trading, if you want to try to maximise your sales, you need to know what is selling in your localised spot. For example: if I have lots of high value items (such as rare, but wanted motif pieces, weapons or jewelry) I will prioritise them and sell them trough the trader that sells a lot of them according to sales history. If I have full 30/30 listing, I do not have room to sell materials and those I sell trough a smaller trader if I feel I need the gold right now. I use sales history to determine the price for the item, I get access to the history via Master Merchant, but I do not use the average price because its unreliable and easy to manipulate. These tricks would become obsolete on the hypothetical global trader. I would no longer need or be able to compare the trade locations to determine where I list my items - I would still look at the sales history to determine the price if I'm able to.

I also enjoy the non-complete information aspect on the buying side. If I for example want a deadly axe (from the deadly strike set), I can go and hunt it from the traders. When I find it in the price range I'm looking for, I need to make a decision: do I buy it from here and thus ending my hunt, or do I keep looking to try to find a better deal but risking to lose this one? Because of the non-complete information nature of guild traders, I sometimes can save thousands of gold if I devote some effort and time for it. If the trading system had complete information all the time, I would just see almost monotonous prices and I would be unable to hunt for bargains.

So, there's my selfish reasons to prefer guild traders. These are points where I know that at least 1 person (me) enjoys them - I do not know if there are others who view it the same way, but at least I know at least one - if I were to guess other selfish reasons, I would not know anyone who would see it as such.

There are of course more objective reasons. We do not know the design reasons, but we can try and guess them. You know what is the most obvious difference between a MMORPG and RPG? The MMO part, which means Massive Multiplayer Online. What aspect could such part introduce to the game? Social aspect. Should we make the social aspect meaningful?

If the game didn't embrace the social aspect, would it make a meaningful difference to make a MMORPG rather than RPG? I would think not, which is why I think it is good to embrace and reinforce the social aspect of the game. I think it is good for the game and to the genre to include socialisation and to encourage players to socialise. It is after all one of the main differences between MMORPG and RPG.

I think one of the reasons why we have Guild Traders, is because it encourages players to socialise. Let's look for more information about this hunch.

In The Elder Scrolls Online, you can join up to five different 500-player Guilds. With Guild activities ranging from PvP to roleplaying to trading or simply helping newer players, there’s hundreds of Guilds in game right now. This means that looking for and joining a Guild can be a daunting experience for some players, and this is what the team looked to improve with Update 22.

“A Guild is a great way to enrich your experience in ESO,” says Bobby Weir, ESO’s UI Design Lead. “A lot of our favorite memories in gaming are grounded within the Guilds that we’ve played with over the years, so we wanted to make finding and connecting with Guilds easier.”

With the new Guild tools in Update 22’s free base game update (meaning you don’t need to buy ESO: Elsweyr to enjoy these new features), you can both find a new Guild and more easily advertise your own Guild as open for new applications. It even allows you to search and filter results to reflect different activities and experience requirements.

(Source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56483 ) To me, it seems like ZoS wants players to enrich their gaming experience via guilds. And the current trading system is built around guilds - could it be that guilds and socialisation is one of the reasons why we have guild traders and not a global trader?

As others have already argued in this thread, guild trading also fights against inflation. Thus the reasons why we have the current system includes at least:
- Guild traders reduce the inflation rate
- Guild traders encourages the usage of player guilds and thus encourages socialisation.

I agree with your statement that it is a selfish view. I have a tendency to look at the big picture and support concepts that are good for All the players, not just a select group.

But thats just me.

AlnilamE

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Barney, stop deluding yourself that Fang Lair chests sells for far more than the other pages in the motif because of market manipulation. It sells for far more because there is far more demand, as it allows people to outfit themselves skimpily.

Not true. All other pieces sell for 5 - 10k and there were fewer of the other pieces to be found than the chest pieces.. Setting the price at 197,777 just guarantees I buy it from the crown store, and in the process get the entire motif.

Sure is some brilliant trader strategy he said sarcastically

it IS actualy true. that chest is more expensive that even scalecaller chest, because is skimpy and closest thing you can get to Dark shaman costume. we had somilar thing happening with mazzatun pants cause its one of the few short skirts in a game. all the other pieces are far less in demand and thanks to anniversary event - are far more common. now, 200k is still a bit much, IMO, given that anniversary event made them more available, but that just means the seller's listing will sit there collecting dust and they will either have to lower the price or just not sell. if you'd rather buy it from crown store - that is your choice and a seller's loss. still not market manipulation. Fang lair is a pain to farm and chest doesn't drop very often to boot. now that its been a few months since anniversary event - prices for motifs are going up again.

but hey.. if you'd like to do your own farming and don't have a group to farm vet fang lair with, you COULD always just run a whole lot of battlegrounds and soon enough get a chest that looks almost identical to Fang Lair chest.

I picked up mazzatun skirt for around 20k. Fact is the Wood Elf medium shows more skin on females than Fang lair and you don't have to deal with the forearms being covered - which is part of the fang lair top. Is Fang lair rare to farm? Sure. But farming is certainly Not the only way to get it. Events boxes, it pops - that's how I got it on my first account. Have a subscription? Unless you had 0 credits to start with, in 3 months you can just buy the whole motif from the crown store - and in the process you don't have to buy ANY pieces from Sellers. You'd have a better point if you were talking about something that can't be bought in the crown store - but most of those items can't be Sold either.

But this is all a tangent. The point is the simple manipulation. When I spent a couple hours going to all the traders I could find, I found 8 chest pieces. EVERY ONE of them had the 197,777 price tag. I find it hard to believe that each seller road around for two hours, and the first person saw one at 197,777, and decided that was a good price to list it. If they are Sellers, on PC, (which is what I am on) they are going to use the addons. They check the addon and they see what the item has 'sold for'.

And THAT is the easiest thing in This trader system to Rig. It just takes 2 accounts. Account 1 sells for a ridiculous price, Account 2 buys it back. Rinse and repeat if you want. It is not costing the manipulator much, and they will make that gold back. So now it is registered in the Addons as having sold for the ridiculous price. Every other Seller checks the addon and thinks that people are really paying that much for the item. This is Waaaaayyy easier than trying to corner the market in a GAH.

IMHO

not sold for. listed for. and guess what? THIS SAME THING COULD AND DOES HAPPEN WITH GLOBAL TRADING. exactly the same thing and you don't even need 2 accounts for it. its actualy EASIER to do with global AH, because you don't have to travel around to buy all the listings to relist them. addons will still show the listing price (or if you are lazy like me, you just search for an item, see the other listed items, undercut it just slightly to put it at the top of the list and call it a day) and people will still try to list at it, and if they don't - their listing will be gone soon enough, leaving behind only your "average" price. i have seen it happen in WoW with rare pets and mounts and occasional transmog pieces. I have seen it happen in SWTOR. i have seen it happen in Neverwinter and SWL and GW2. people for the most part are going to try and list at an average. maybe slightly bellow average but not significantly so. and if you think that once in a blue moon someone doesn't come around and try to manipulate it with varying degree of success? i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. heck - you make this game global, its going to happen MORE often.

I bought mazatun skirt for a lot more then 20k. but thats because I bought it years ago, when it used to be rarer. shadows of hist was out 2 years longer then Fang lair (edited to correct the duration, hist was released in 2016 and Dragon Bones in 2018). the motif had a chance to drop in MULTIPLE anniversary events. it its now easier dungeon to farm then Fang lair. next year? Fang lair everything is going to be more common.

The difference using the GAH is quantity. No one is Denied the ability to put items up for sale the way this current system does. That means Every character in the game with items to sell Can list them on the GAH. It much more difficult to corner a market and try to buy everything with the intention of flipping because of the sheer amount of resources needed up front, as well as the amount needed to continuously buy every new listing of said item.

Our Trader system Denies players the ability to put items up for sale. That's a Fact. The numbers have already been shown. There is a finite number of traders and a Finite number of players allowed into a Trading guild. You do not get a lot of ' buy everything and resell it higher' with a GAH because of the sheer volume of players that can list items. Even iuf someone Does pull it off on some item, it doesn't last. one individual cannot keep up with the demand Every day to buy the items other people list.

If there is One thing that is just plain Wrong about this game, it is that All paying players are Not ALLOWED to put items up for sale.

IMHO

sigh. /shakes head. while yes, global trading system is theoretically more accessible to more people, a lot of people STILL don't use it to sell things. becasue they don't want to. moreover, becasue everything is centralized, its EASIER to keep track of everything that gets listed and buy up the outliers. the reason manipulation fails sooner or later, whether its ESO or any game with global trading system is exactly the same. people think there is a demand. people start farming more. market gets flooded. budding manipulator gives up. one individual cannot exactly keep up with manipulating ESO system either. there are just too many locations and too many people listing. yes, even in out limiting system, becasue there are a LOT of guilds and not as many people who want to utilize these guilds. literally, one individual in ESO cannot keep up with trying to manipulate common enough items in ESO, anymore than they can in centralized trading systems. meanwhile, i have personaly seen people corner market on rare drops in WoW. when you see pages of listings and they are all from the same name. I have seen this in SWTOR as well. it doesn't last unless the item is sufficiently rare to guarantee that supply is not going to be overwhelming. but it DOES happen. consistently.

getting into trading guilds in ESO is far easier than people make it out to be, and no, you do NOT need to be in a top guild to make decent income. good locations have higher traffic and things sell faster, but that's the thing, even in not ideal locations - things still sell!.

you are not forced to buy from major guild trader only. you can travel around and look for deals the same way your hypothetical market manipulators do!

and once again, i'm not against allowing everyone to list whether they are in a guild or not, I'm not against global trade systems on principle, on the contrary. all i'm saying while you are not listening is - GLOBAL TRADING DOES NOT FIX PRICING "ISSUES" THAT YOU KEEP INSISTING EXISTS WITH ESO. global systems have exact. same. pricing. "issues"

Well, you are welcome to that belief, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

In a GAH, where Every person in the game who wants to can list theirs, if ALL the Fang Lair chest pieces were listed, I guarantee they would not ALL be at 197,777. You might find that when it was first listed, but there would a whole string of options listed after that, each new listing undercutting the previous one.

That is how the open market Should work. With Everyone being allowed to be involved.

IMHO

can =/= does. moreover Fang Lair chest is an equivalent of a rare transmog drop in WoW. would you like to hop on and check how much THOSE go for and how much THOSE are monopolized? becasue you seem to be speaking purely in theoretical and i'm speaking from actual experience.

rare items cost more. rare items sometimes are subject to attempted manipulation, YES THAT INCLUDES GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE. becasue rare items drops are limited and are NOT infinite like you seem to believe. Fang Lair chest is NOT cornflower that everyone can farm at will. outside of the anniversary event - it requires a group capable of running vet fang lair AND a bit of luck with rng for the actual chest to drop.

at that listing price? those chests are not going to sell anymore than rare transmog sells in WoW at vastly above market price. if you would just, i don't know... practiced a tiny bit of PATIENCE.. you would see those listings not sell and eventualy drop back down in price to something closer to their actual current market price which is, last i checked about 40-50k give or take.

there are items in GAH that you will see maybe, if you are lucky - 3 or 4 listed. becasue they are rare. sometimes they are listed at obsenely high prices and guess what? the next day, there aren't pages of that same item listed inexplicably radicaly cheaper. becasue. its. RARE. and that has nothing to do with GAH.

Only if the Rare drop is truly Rare. And Fang Lair is NOT Rare.

Why?

Because there is more than One method of obtaining it. Let's take the actual situation.

I look for the chest piece, it is available for 197,777 gold, no matter where I go. However, it is also available in the Crown Store. I am a subscriber. I generate and save crowns every month.

Conclusion : Because the Gouger has it listed stupidly high, I simply buy it from the Crown store. In the process, I receive ALL the pieces of the motif, so other pieces that I might have bought from the Trader I no longer need to buy. The sellers of Those pieces now do not get a sale from me. The result - Zos gets my money, I get my motif, and the Traders get ZERO gold.

Just because they priced it stupidly high.

Great business plan <he said sarcastically>

That's your choice. And as someone pointed out, you are losing money in the process, but you can use your money as you wish.

Meanwhile, I will never buy a crown store motif as a matter of principle. Even the Welkynar motif, which is much harder to get than Fang Lair, I waited for the Jubilee event and got all of it then.

barney2525 wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Has anyone addressed the fact that like, less than a handful of people in game have control of capital city traders? Cause I feel like something that important shouldn't be in player hands, much less 10 random people.

Do you honestly think the gms of those guilds could do it without the 499 other people in their guilds, consistently? It's not in the hands of a few people. It's a LOT of people you are talking about.

So much this ^^^^

499 rolling in over 50 k per week in sales.
20 people donating 100K per week.
300 people donating 2-5K per week.

5-10 separate guilds contributing to the pot. That is at least 2 500 people contributing to whatever it is that is being complained about.

One of them takes it for the team and spends a week in Skywatch. Back next week.


It is NOT the system that is broken; this is how currently players use the current system to their advantage.
Bring in any other system, and they will find and exploit it any way they can. So why bother changing?

Because the current system DENIES some players the right to sell their items

Players can sell to whoever they wish without going through a guild trader.

Now compare with Black Desert, which has a Central Market, with a 35% tax (which can be reduced by subscribing) where you cannot trade directly to other players (with the exception of some basic potions).

There players have no choice but use the central market.

JKorr

barney2525 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Has anyone addressed the fact that like, less than a handful of people in game have control of capital city traders? Cause I feel like something that important shouldn't be in player hands, much less 10 random people.

Oh for petes sake, your red communism socialist authoritarian colors are showing. So if power does not belong to the people(players) I suppose instead a few enlightned betters should decide for all. Gawd I abhor the idea of a select elite making choices over common folk.

Guild Leaders right now work through the consent of other players, it does not get any fairer than that. I do not ever want a select self-imposed elite making choices for what is good on my behalf

They do Not. That's Flat Out Wrong.

Guild leaders end out mail every week TELLING you what is required. PERIOD. And if you don't comply, you are kicked out. PERIOD. I'm in 2 trading guilds. Both have a ONE strike policy. Miss once, your status changes. Miss twice You are OUT.

They do NOT work through 'the consent of other players'. They give orders. You obey or get kicked. You PAY or get kicked.

One just lost out on their Trader this week. Guess what the mail said. REQUIRED to pay weekly dues despite losing the Trader for the week.

Leaders give orders and Players must comply or get kicked.

This whole "Leaders work through the consent of the players" is nothing but FANTASY.

Then your guild sucks.

You decided to join the authoritarian "one strike you're out" guilds. You decide to stay in your "one strike you're out" guilds. Why do you stay? Why do you accept unreasonable demands? Are the benefits that spectacular?

There are guilds that don't work that way. As long as people accept the demands and continue to support the unreasonable authoritarian dictatorship guilds, the authoritarian dictatorships will stay in charge. No need for a revolution if people just leave and find a different guild that doesn't work that way.

I guess I don't understand because I'd never even look at a guild that had those types of requirements. The trading guild I have doesn't have required sale quotas, or mandatory donations, or mandatory raffles. Only requirement is log in at least once a week. Last ten days I've sold about 200k worth of stuff. But then I don't live to do trading. And my guildmaster has asked what the guild wants to have in the guildhouse, and has prioritized which attunables are added, etc. So far we have every crafting station in the game, added with master writs/vouchers donated by guildies who did it voluntarily. No one forced/ordered me to donate. I did to support the guild because I wanted to; it makes trading easy and not a painful job.

TheBonesXXX

Increase the drop rate of gold upgrade material for those of us who prefer to solo or be in smaller groups.

Theres not enough ES in ESO.

Skwor

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Increase the drop rate of gold upgrade material for those of us who prefer to solo or be in smaller groups.

Theres not enough ES in ESO.

No. I can farm 10k raw mats each, that is 40k total between cloth, ore, wood and dust in less than two weeks when soloing and focused on farming.

The drop rate is fine as is.

ZOS_JesC

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