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Trading System is absolutely vile
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »You don't need billions to play a trader. I used to do just what the OP explained untill i reached 1m+ don't rly need much gold after. Today it's a different story coz you can buy crowns.
But if you have a problem with a 55k staff then wow. How big is your bank? 10k? I think i bought my MS staff for 200k. Do you even own a maxed out mount? Make some money and stop with the QQ. There are a lot of guides on that. No amount of QQ is going to change the eso trading system so adapt or uninstall.
Ah... that standard response from all who are panicked that their own little bubble might be burst if Zos used some common sense and added an Global Auction House.
The fact that adding a GAH to the game would put the current system right out of business shows which system is better And which system the Majority of the players want to use.
And so the millionaires rail against it.
It's so bloody easy to become a millionaire in this game, [snip]
I used to be poor, then I didn't want to be poor when I got tired of having to farm for everything. So I Googled and learned ways to earn some money and within my first month I had 1 mil in the bank. So if I can do it, so can the rest of you [snip].
[edited for circumventing profanity filter]
How condescending. Thank you for shattering Any illusion people might have that Traders care at all about the game as a whole.
I Don't care about becoming a millionaire. Just want top be able to quickly and efficiently sell items I happen to obtain while the playing the game. Also just want to quickly and efficiently find out what ALL the prices are for a specific item I may want to buy.
The game is based on PVE/PVP (or PVP/PVE if you prefer). Can't understand why the minority of players who spend hours and hours trying to manipulate the economy think that THAT is what this game is all about.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:33PM8 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »he system was fine before this cancer (TTC) appeared,
No, it wasn't.
The system has always been unfit for purpose.
It has always excluded more people from Trade than it has brought into Trade.
It has always been difficult for Sellers to find what they were looking for - appallingly bad UI is most definitely ZoS's fault.
Te Kiosk System has never been "fine", unless you are referencing the "f" from the Aerosmith song of the same name.
All The Best
ALL True. 2 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.6 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Not sure I agree with all your points but I do agree with you on 1 thing. The auction system in the game is horrible. A basic core part of a MMO that does not allow for everyone to fully participate.
Not true. Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! you are fully participating. "But I can't pay the dues!" then join trading guild with no or very small dues. Yes there are plenty. Yes you can find them in the guild finder.
I'm pretty sure there aren't enough guild stores that everyone can join one. Mathematically speaking, there is a definite limit to the number of people who can use this system and I'm fairly certain that limit is lower than the total number of people playing the game.
Why are you so sure of that? Check the guild store as I suggested, it is very obvious that there are many member slots open in many MANY trade guilds, including big central ones.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dear OP. I'm sure people have said it to you already over and over again. while our system is far from ideal, yours specific complains? having centralized trading does NOT fix those complains. arbitration exists wherever you can trade items between individuals with currency involved. regardless of what specifics of trading system is- arbitration will continue to exist.
you not being able to afford something is NOT something changing the trading system can help. your "solutions" are utterly unworkable (binding items on purchase, seriously? but I guess you are not in any sort of guild that is even a little bit social, becasue guess what - sometimes, a fair number of times - items are bought to be used as gifts, raffle prizes, etc)
our trading system is inconvenient. there is no excuses around it. however, it is NOT impossible to break into, you do NOT need obscene amounts of gold to start trading. and there are more people who are just selling whatever they find, and players that buy from them to use directly or gift to a friend, than there are people reselling. prices can only go as high as what people are willing to pay. if the price gets too high - it doesn't sell. reselling is only worth it, if you get a certain amount of all but guaranteed profit. so the only things that get resold are things posted well WELL under the market value, and even then, far from all of those listings are bought by arbitrators.
majority of people engaging in trade are NOT some billionaire magnates. there are a few that are, but most people are just selling whatever they get as they play that they don't plan on using themselves. and guess what? you can do it yourself! on EU I'm not even IN a trading guild and the guild I'm in, gets trader maybe once a month, sometimes twice. basicaly, not every week. and i STILL managed to sell some stuff and didn't even have to undercut all that much, despite the trader we DO get occasionally, not being anywhere near a super desirable location. and that's another thing. you COULD always check those out of the way traders.
is it inconvenient? yes. yes it is. but your problem Op is that you think the prices are too high, and THAT is not something that can EVER be fixed without completely ruining player economy. cause you know what else happens if you severely restrict player trading like you are suggesting? players lose motivation to farm rare drops and you never find those listed at ALL. you are going to have to gird your loins and do your OWN farming. and there is no option to just go steal for a few days, fence it and just buy what you want (which is STILL faster then hoping rng takes pity on you and gives you the drop you want - quickly. or ever)dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.The Moot Councillor0 -
spekdah✭✭✭A better stop gap measure would be to make the current trader NPC's work like a banker/guild trader, i.e. in that they could hold 5-10 guilds selectable by a dropdown, i.e. like the Bank Guild Store interface if you are a member of more than one guild.
Could start at 5 and monitor figures, if supply is still an issue go up to 10 or more.
If each current trader NPC could hold 5-10 guilds that would go along way to adding to supply, which is a major source of all problems. At least there is an interface already built and usable.
Maybe your bid price determines the order of the drop down rather than alphabetical order to stop all guilds starting with A or !
Be interesting if search went across all guilds in the trader :-)
1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.
I really dislike it. Anything worth buying costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your first born. And anything I have to sell has thousands of the same item listed at minimum price. I have just taken to vendoring almost everything.
Now if only it was possible to farm mats as easily as you can in ESO, I would never need it for anything.The Moot Councillor2 -
wolf486✭✭✭✭ESO was my first MMO and I always found it beyond annoying to buy/sell, but didn't know any better. I figured needing a browser open to search out the prices and locations was a normal thing. Then I started playing BDO and I just could never go back to trading in ESO. It's so nice not to have to deal with guilds or finding a specific NPC in the world.PC/NAMoved onto BDO and GW2 Skyrim, ATS/ETS2, ACNH and the overall goodness of single player games
RIP to the following:
(DC) Tharbûrz gro-Glumgrog - Orsimer -Stamden (lvl 50)
(AD) Vukz - Bosmer - Stamblade (lvl 50)6 -
Censered✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »You don't need billions to play a trader. I used to do just what the OP explained untill i reached 1m+ don't rly need much gold after. Today it's a different story coz you can buy crowns.
But if you have a problem with a 55k staff then wow. How big is your bank? 10k? I think i bought my MS staff for 200k. Do you even own a maxed out mount? Make some money and stop with the QQ. There are a lot of guides on that. No amount of QQ is going to change the eso trading system so adapt or uninstall.
Ah... that standard response from all who are panicked that their own little bubble might be burst if Zos used some common sense and added an Global Auction House.
The fact that adding a GAH to the game would put the current system right out of business shows which system is better And which system the Majority of the players want to use.
And so the millionaires rail against it.
It's so bloody easy to become a millionaire in this game, [snip]
I used to be poor, then I didn't want to be poor when I got tired of having to farm for everything. So I Googled and learned ways to earn some money and within my first month I had 1 mil in the bank. So if I can do it, so can the rest of you [snip].
[edited for circumventing profanity filter]
How condescending. Thank you for shattering Any illusion people might have that Traders care at all about the game as a whole.
I Don't care about becoming a millionaire. Just want top be able to quickly and efficiently sell items I happen to obtain while the playing the game. Also just want to quickly and efficiently find out what ALL the prices are for a specific item I may want to buy.
The game is based on PVE/PVP (or PVP/PVE if you prefer). Can't understand why the minority of players who spend hours and hours trying to manipulate the economy think that THAT is what this game is all about.
For me trading is a big part of how I play a game. It's another pvp game within the game but this but for it t so as I want no part of it.
This system is more like the coal mining towns of the 1920's where the new people and people whojainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.
I spent 50% of my gaming time marketing on GW2. Buying test batches to see what sells and how much I should post so as not to drown in merchandise. Watching the market, stopping people from driving the prices down on my favorite goods. I absolutely loved it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:34PM0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
Heh, I always saw myeelf as the small tradesperson who supplied people's backordered mats, helping them reach their crafting goals
But GW2 and WoW aren't the only systems out there. SWTOR's GTN could feel kind of personal on smaller servers. A small fry could have some impact in driving mats prices for a day or so.
Anyway, I like to feel like a casual part of the larger whole without having to live and breathe trading from the moment I log in. I'm not guild material of any type, but I do like to feel like at least a tiny cog in the universe.jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.
I really dislike it. Anything worth buying costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your first born. And anything I have to sell has thousands of the same item listed at minimum price. I have just taken to vendoring almost everything.
Now if only it was possible to farm mats as easily as you can in ESO, I would never need it for anything.
Place orders for mats/gear instead of buying it on the spot. Be the a part of the minimum price plague
I was always happy to fill the cheapo orders since I'm lazy. I can't be the only one 0 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation and has spawned numerous guilds that offer their members fantastic experiences beyond trading (social events, trials, PvE events' etc.). Compared to that, the downsides of noobs not just being able to sell their stuff as soon as they want without joining one of hundreds of guilds (many of which have no fees or dues) are incredibly minor. Seems like the only vile thing about this trading system is that there are ignorant players who mindlessly screech about hating it, for completely baseless and invalid reasons.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation
And all the evidence says the opposite.
Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.
Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.
Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.
That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.8 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From what I've been told by a friend who played wow for years, it has or had an AH.
He said that the ppl with the most money would buy up items that are underpriced and resell at a higher value.
How is that much different than what happens in eso? The only thing different from what he told me is wow has an AH, eso does not.
I play WoW for years too and it's exactly as your friend says.
WoW is worse than ESO. The trading addons for WoW are absolutely insane compared to those we have in ESO. Plus, you can relist & gouge prices sitting in one comfortable location in your capital city.
To those who want one AH: beware, because the day you get what you want, you'll scream 100 times louder.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....
Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.
Do you know how markets work?
Relist a widget to 3000% of its value and... it won't sell. Or you sell 1 a month to some clueless dude who can't figure out that it's stupid shelling 300k on a 10k item.
Edited by Vahrokh on July 18, 2019 11:44AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO3 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I play WoW for years too and it's exactly as your friend says.
WoW is worse than ESO. The trading addons for WoW are absolutely insane compared to those we have in ESO. Plus, you can relist & gouge prices sitting in one comfortable location in your capital city.
To those who want one AH: beware, because the day you get what you want, you'll scream 100 times louder.
I've played WoW since just before BC dropped. I've never once seen what you describe.
I've also never once seen it in LOTRO played that since just after Mines Of Moria dropped - was playing upto 60 hours a week at one time, in a Craft / Trade Guild.
Because EVERYONE can be a Seller and undercut stupid high prices and still make profit, it is almost impossible to "corner a market".
And because Buyers can see all prices for a given item in one place it is almost impossible to significantly overcharge,
I've seen it tried, several times, I never once seen it even close to success.
The reason ESO Trade Guilds are opposed to a Global Trade House is precisely because it stops them a) easily cornering a market, and b) systemically overcharging for goods.
And that tells me most of them couldn't make it in a genuine Free Market where everyone can be a seller and reach all buyers equally.
All The BestEdited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on July 18, 2019 12:12PMThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.6 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Do you know how markets work?
Relist a widget to 3000% of its value and... it won't sell. Or you sell 1 a month to some clueless dude who can't figure out that it's stupid shelling 300k on a 10k item.
Do you know how markets work?
Because the example you give ONLY works if ALL BUYERS are aware of the actual value of the commodity.
And the Trade Kiosk system makes that almost an impossibility.
A Global Trade House, where all prices can been seen it one place makes that a certainty, and that is why ESO Traders are opposed to it.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation
And all the evidence says the opposite.
Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.
Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.
Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.
That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?
All The Best
Got any proof?
Trader bids are the goldsink itself, so the more gold is in the system, the higher their price should be. This is not inflation.
Right now I can find iron ore (I even went with a raw mat and not a refined version to give you a better chance) for anywhere between 20 and 30 gold a piece. Ingots are about 5 gold a piece. So anyone remmeber when iron ore was going for 1 gold? No? It's less than vendor price? Figured.
Two years ago I was paying above 10k for any temper. Rosins are down to less than 2k, Tempers and Wax are more expensive at 5-7k or so. Are you going to tell me that they used to cost 1200 gold? Man why wasn't I around at that time.
My prices are PC EU prices. In case you were talking about consoles I see no reason to discuss that economy because it was thoroughly [snip] when ZOS allowed people to transfer to console with all their gold and materials at the beginning. Guild traders had nothing to do with it.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:42PM6 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation
And all the evidence says the opposite.
Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.
Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.
Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.
That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?
All The Best
that is not even remotely true. not only your numbers are exaggerated, but tracking prices across the years, ALL of the items you have listed? have significantly DROPPED in price.
except for Kiosk prices... which is what actualy controls inflation when it comes to EVERYTHING ELSE. for all the issues I have with the system - kiosk bids is the most effective system I have ever seen in ANY MMO when it comes to controlling inflation - which in video games is caused by excess gold being pushed into economy from quests etc without significant gold sinks to control it. the irony here is - what you are describing? is what happens in WoW and what happened in swtor. NOT because it has central trading house, but because they allowed too much currency generation without significant gold sinks to counter it.
on PC NA at least tier 1 mats are not only dirt cheap, but on every console tier one mats are effectively given away in higher amounts than you spend - when you do crafting writs. (which is why they are so cheap, incidentally).
what makes trading system in this game oh so very annoying is its incredible inconvenience and requirement that you ARE in a guild in order to trade. its clunky. its stupidly time consuming when it comes to buying anything even with addons to narrow search down. but you all keep talking like the true problem is the prices and arbitration and THAT's just not true. this is also the ONLY MMO that I have personaly played where years post release, prices are still reasonable and you CAN afford to buy all sorts of things without trading being the only genuine way to afford it. you CAN just make gold from other in game activities solo and still buy stuff, because its STILL affordable... because kiosk bids take all that exess gold out of economy - thus keeping inflation DOWN.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation
And all the evidence says the opposite.
Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.
Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.
Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.
That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?
All The Best
Yes. Seems about right, actually.
Tier 1 mats were *always* available when the game launched. When a maxed out crafter at vet level went out gathering mats, if they farmed in Stonefalls/Auridon/Glenumbra they *always* found ONLY iron/jute/maple. ALWAYS. I had fun taking my vet level maxed crafter to Stonefalls and one-shotting alits and beetles with a bow to farm level one mats. There was no need to charge high prices for tier one mats because they were always there and easy to get for *everyone*. Need Tier 2 mats? Head to Deshaan and the corresponding areas for the other factions. Tier 3? Next zone. Repeat for each higher level up to Voidstone, Ebonthread, and Nightwood in Craglorn.... Then.......things changed. Consoles release was coming. And ZOS listened to the people who wanted to go to all the zones and do everything without needing Cadwell's Silver and Gold, so One Tamriel happened. That changed the mats from zones to linked 50/50 with a character's level and crafting skill. So all the maxed crafters above level 1 were NEVER going to find tier one mats again. Unless they keep their crafting skill at 0 they won't even find tier one mats half the time. People are going to charge for their farming time, if that isn't their primary reason to play the game.
You do realize that when the game released, people weren't exactly rushing to gold out sets to get that last .00001% of whatever, right? Not to mention people didn't, in the very early days, have cartloads of gold laying about. When you had to buy three separate horses at 47500 each, and feed each one 60 times to increase the stat for that specific horse, plus buy pack upgrades [*each* character's fully upgraded inventory cost 179,700 gold] and upgrading the account wide bank space [at 768,500 gold] the market wouldn't bear people selling iron ingots at 50k each. Pre-crown store shortcuts had a lot of mandatory gold sinks in the game.
There is a demand, people will fill it, and they will charge what people are willing to pay. When the price is unacceptable, it won't sell, and the price will drop.
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rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s Vile alright. Clavicus Vile. It seems like an ok deal at first, then you realize that you are trapped in a horrible bargain."Get off my lawn!"3 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I believe there are 195+ vendors in the game at the moment (not counting Cyrodiil). That means 195+ guilds that have traders. Is it really that hard to join one of those to make some money?
Also if some players are buying up something and “price gouging” the general population, I want to know what those items are. This way I can sell it too at slightly lower prices to make some serious gold.
Yes it is because with 195 Vendors at 500 slots per guild that means only 97,500 slots available for active players. Now considering that a lot of people in the Trading game are in multiple trading guilds that means even less slots than that for everyone else. ZOS boasts 11+ million accounts, which we know is not active but with even a fraction of that running around in the game the actual slots for traders is still insignificant. This means the player economy is accessible at any given time to only a small portion of the active playerbase.
So again. Yes it is hard to join one of those guilds to make money.
Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2 -
NeroBad✭✭✭✭I like to travel to guilds look into what a not frequent kiosk could hide. I know it could be more conveniant, but with Kiosk system for me it is more immersive. I'm also fine with WTS/WTB things in zone chat. And I would dislike an AH system.
Also rare items wouldn't be cheaper or easier to find, becuse reseller bots would buy them instant, regular items would be cheaper though.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »I believe there are 195+ vendors in the game at the moment (not counting Cyrodiil). That means 195+ guilds that have traders. Is it really that hard to join one of those to make some money?
Also if some players are buying up something and “price gouging” the general population, I want to know what those items are. This way I can sell it too at slightly lower prices to make some serious gold.
Yes it is because with 195 Vendors at 500 slots per guild that means only 97,500 slots available for active players. Now considering that a lot of people in the Trading game are in multiple trading guilds that means even less slots than that for everyone else. ZOS boasts 11+ million accounts, which we know is not active but with even a fraction of that running around in the game the actual slots for traders is still insignificant. This means the player economy is accessible at any given time to only a small portion of the active playerbase.
So again. Yes it is hard to join one of those guilds to make money.
As someone who is in multiple trading guilds, not a single one of them is full. So these magical players who cannot get into a trading guild aren't looking hard enough.3 -
NeroBad✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »I believe there are 195+ vendors in the game at the moment (not counting Cyrodiil). That means 195+ guilds that have traders. Is it really that hard to join one of those to make some money?
Also if some players are buying up something and “price gouging” the general population, I want to know what those items are. This way I can sell it too at slightly lower prices to make some serious gold.
Yes it is because with 195 Vendors at 500 slots per guild that means only 97,500 slots available for active players. Now considering that a lot of people in the Trading game are in multiple trading guilds that means even less slots than that for everyone else. ZOS boasts 11+ million accounts, which we know is not active but with even a fraction of that running around in the game the actual slots for traders is still insignificant. This means the player economy is accessible at any given time to only a small portion of the active playerbase.
So again. Yes it is hard to join one of those guilds to make money.
I got into the biggest guild (by traffic) by writing to the GM who recruited via zonechat when I barely know trading (funny thing that it was my second guild and I didn't know what were the good spots). Each big trading guild have atelast 1 or 2 free spots from Monday to midweek but more common is to have 10+ spots, medium trading guilds (not small!!) have 20-50 free spots, so no there is plenty space for everyone who are interested, but most don't. (Also 11+ million is for 6 servers, each server has different trading guilds)
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
Heh, I always saw myeelf as the small tradesperson who supplied people's backordered mats, helping them reach their crafting goals But GW2 and WoW aren't the only systems out there. SWTOR's GTN could feel kind of personal on smaller servers. A small fry could have some impact in driving mats prices for a day or so.
Anyway, I like to feel like a casual part of the larger whole without having to live and breathe trading from the moment I log in. I'm not guild material of any type, but I do like to feel like at least a tiny cog in the universe.
I feel that way in ESO. When my small social guild had a trader in a steady location, we listed a lot of provisioning mats, and it was really cool so see the same people come by on a weekly basis and buy several stacks of mats so they could in turn make the food they were probably selling at their own trader.
This kind of history and knowing who you are selling to is absent in GW2.jainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.
I really dislike it. Anything worth buying costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your first born. And anything I have to sell has thousands of the same item listed at minimum price. I have just taken to vendoring almost everything.
Now if only it was possible to farm mats as easily as you can in ESO, I would never need it for anything.
Place orders for mats/gear instead of buying it on the spot. Be the a part of the minimum price plague I was always happy to fill the cheapo orders since I'm lazy. I can't be the only one
Thank you, but I'm taking an extended break. I only log in if my guildies need help with a guild mission or something.
I just got burnt out with the pressure to do dailies and whatnot in order to afford mats I needed for crafting and I felt like I never had time to do my own thing.
In ESO, with the exception of one character last year during the jubilee event, I've never run out of crafting mats, and I don't even actively farm, it's just stuff I picked up along the way when I play, and it doesn't feel like a chore at all.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation
And all the evidence says the opposite.
Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.
Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.
Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.
That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?
All The Best
Can you please tell me which Tier 1 mats are that expensive? Because every time I check, they are just above vendoring price (which is 4g each), so absolutely not worth using up a guild slot for, after fees.
If you have Tier 1 mats that sell at 80g/each, I would very much like to know what they are, if you don't mind sharing your secret)The Moot Councillor1 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Jayman1000 wrote: »Not sure I agree with all your points but I do agree with you on 1 thing. The auction system in the game is horrible. A basic core part of a MMO that does not allow for everyone to fully participate.
Not true. Everyone can participate fully. Just join a trading guild and voila! you are fully participating. "But I can't pay the dues!" then join trading guild with no or very small dues. Yes there are plenty. Yes you can find them in the guild finder.
I'm pretty sure there aren't enough guild stores that everyone can join one. Mathematically speaking, there is a definite limit to the number of people who can use this system and I'm fairly certain that limit is lower than the total number of people playing the game.
Why are you so sure of that? Check the guild store as I suggested, it is very obvious that there are many member slots open in many MANY trade guilds, including big central ones.
I think that you are missing the point too. So why are there so many open spots in those guilds??? I'm sure that there are different reasons for each and every guild. Just because its an existing guild does not mean that we should have to prop it up just because it was made during Beta or Launch time. Not everyone wants to join the existing old boys network. Your not allowing for any new trading guilds to form by insisting that you join an existing guild. IMO this points out another reason why there should be more traders available so that more trading guilds can participate.0 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »I believe there are 195+ vendors in the game at the moment (not counting Cyrodiil). That means 195+ guilds that have traders. Is it really that hard to join one of those to make some money?
Also if some players are buying up something and “price gouging” the general population, I want to know what those items are. This way I can sell it too at slightly lower prices to make some serious gold.
Yes it is because with 195 Vendors at 500 slots per guild that means only 97,500 slots available for active players. Now considering that a lot of people in the Trading game are in multiple trading guilds that means even less slots than that for everyone else. ZOS boasts 11+ million accounts, which we know is not active but with even a fraction of that running around in the game the actual slots for traders is still insignificant. This means the player economy is accessible at any given time to only a small portion of the active playerbase.
So again. Yes it is hard to join one of those guilds to make money.
To add to that,
Many players have a life outside of a video game, & don't have 50+ hours a week to waste away on a video game.
Career, family, school, etc...10-15h a week to play is a lot of hours for many of these players, & excluding this demographic from participating successfully in a system to sell their goods they earned in a "small" allotted play time is a bad system, & a poor business strategy.1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »You don't need billions to play a trader. I used to do just what the OP explained untill i reached 1m+ don't rly need much gold after. Today it's a different story coz you can buy crowns.
But if you have a problem with a 55k staff then wow. How big is your bank? 10k? I think i bought my MS staff for 200k. Do you even own a maxed out mount? Make some money and stop with the QQ. There are a lot of guides on that. No amount of QQ is going to change the eso trading system so adapt or uninstall.
Ah... that standard response from all who are panicked that their own little bubble might be burst if Zos used some common sense and added an Global Auction House.
The fact that adding a GAH to the game would put the current system right out of business shows which system is better And which system the Majority of the players want to use.
And so the millionaires rail against it.
It's so bloody easy to become a millionaire in this game, [snip]
I used to be poor, then I didn't want to be poor when I got tired of having to farm for everything. So I Googled and learned ways to earn some money and within my first month I had 1 mil in the bank. So if I can do it, so can the rest of you [snip].
[edited for circumventing profanity filter]
How condescending. Thank you for shattering Any illusion people might have that Traders care at all about the game as a whole.
I Don't care about becoming a millionaire. Just want top be able to quickly and efficiently sell items I happen to obtain while the playing the game. Also just want to quickly and efficiently find out what ALL the prices are for a specific item I may want to buy.
The game is based on PVE/PVP (or PVP/PVE if you prefer). Can't understand why the minority of players who spend hours and hours trying to manipulate the economy think that THAT is what this game is all about.
For me trading is a big part of how I play a game. It's another pvp game within the game but this but for it t so as I want no part of it.
This system is more like the coal mining towns of the 1920's where the new people and people whojainiadral wrote: ».ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.
Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*
Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.
The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.
In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.
That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.
I spent 50% of my gaming time marketing on GW2. Buying test batches to see what sells and how much I should post so as not to drown in merchandise. Watching the market, stopping people from driving the prices down on my favorite goods. I absolutely loved it.
Sorry, your response got cut off at " and people who ", so I don't know what your final thought on that was.
You may like trading as a big part of what you play. That's fine. But that does not make the system good for the game. No game should cater to the specific tastes of any individual. The Game should be taking into account ALL the players and then install systems that the MAJORITY of the players can use, quickly and efficiently.
This system does Not fall into that category.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 8, 2024 6:37PM5