Buying completed skill trees makes the under-level-50 PvP campaign pay-to-win

HumbleThaumaturge · July 2019

Personally, I think it is real-wrong to allow players to use real money to buy skyshard skill points and completed skill trees. But it's in the game or soon will be, so it is a done-deal. However, Dear ZOS, please consider adding a "flag" to characters such that if a player buys skyshard skill points or any completed skill tree at the Crown Store that character CANNOT enter the under-level-50 PvP campaign. Being able to use a credit card to buy skill points and completed skill trees for a new character clearly makes the under-level-50 campaign Pay-to-Win. There are some players who spend most of their game-time in that campaign and won't mind spending the real money to dominate other (poorer) players. I have enjoyed playing this campaign in the past; but I shudder to think how this campaign will play with big-spenders able to buy advanced character abilities for their new characters. I am very sad to see the game go down this path.

coop500 · July 2019

*And people thought werewolves were bad*

casparian · July 2019

The under 50 campaign is one of two things: a training wheels campaign for the inexperienced and undergeared, or a playground for maxed out twinks who have been rerolling there since it was Blackwater Blade. Since ZOS doesn’t enforce conditions that would promote the former, it has largely been the latter for years. The players you’re talking about already bring guild ultimates etc. to their noob-smashing adventures, and no one (neither ZOS nor the campaign’s regulars) seems to care very much. This change will only mean they have the opportunity to lose real world money in doing so, instead of merely their dignity.

jhall03 · July 2019

I am usually against the P2W argument but the OP has a good point. I guess it's play at your own risk.

HumbleThaumaturge · July 2019

Of course, this PtW concern also applies to under-level-50 Battlegrounds, as well as the under-level-50 Cyrodiil campaign.

WillhelmBlack · July 2019

I win anyway, regardless.

redlink1979 · July 2019

Here we go again...

Not pay to win, pay for convenience: if you are able to buy the lines is because you unlock them with another char...

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Umm, maybe you should just level up?

Complaining about some nonsense in the under-50 campaign is like complaining about the pee in the kiddie pool... just move to the grownup pool, and it won't be a problem

yodased · July 2019

There is nothing that can not already be earned before 50 for sale.

Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. All skill lines maxed, every skyshard in the game with all skills and passives you need will put you at level 38-30 depending on how much you killed.

Now, you can technically have the skill line open to you at level 10 sure and then you can buy the skyshards you need to get the skill point you need sure.

So you are saying that someone can spend hundreds of dollars to get something at level 10 that I can get in a weekend and be level 30.

And with the level of "leetness" they will have they will be at level 30 in a day or two anyway, so why not just take those 2 days and save your 500 bucks it would take to skip those pesky 20 levels.

Also, the sky is staying put.

validifyedneb18_ESO · July 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

Here we go again...

Not pay to win, pay for convenience: if you are able to buy the lines is because you unlock them with another char...

this time it really is pay to win, I havent done the maths but its going to be near impossible to level up fighters without getting close to 50. So regarding purely sub 50 twinking, yes, it is far more pay to win.

Not that twinking isnt already dumb as ***.

Harrdarrzarr · July 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

Here we go again...

Not pay to win, pay for convenience: if you are able to buy the lines is because you unlock them with another char...

Would you be able to have max undaunted on a level 30 character, if you got it the "old-fashioned" way?

yodased · July 2019

And yes you can get udaunted by level 30

You get 15 people in a group and you swap dailies. This is 150 undaunted a day with about 10k exp

undaunted 10 is 1500 XP

You get 30 for this ones on me, 10 for each dungone blocker, healer damage dealer etc.

Fighters guild there are many zombie that are summoned that give fighters guild and not xp

redlink1979 · July 2019

@Harrdarrzarr @validifyedneb18_ESO Just read @yodased posts.

There's the answer.

yodased wrote: »

And yes you can get udaunted by level 30

You get 15 people in a group and you swap dailies. This is 150 undaunted a day with about 10k exp

undaunted 10 is 1500 XP

You get 30 for this ones on me, 10 for each dungone blocker, healer damage dealer etc.

Fighters guild there are many zombie that are summoned that give fighters guild and not xp

VoiDGhOs7 · July 2019

Buying the skill lines from the CS will allow to stay in the lowbie campaign for far longer because you dont get the XP as you would normally do, for me is not and issue because I'm not playing there but the thing might lead to some really unbalanced stuff. Guess we'll wait and see.

Gederic · July 2019

Easy solution. Bar veteran players from playing in the non-vet campaign...

SaintSubwayy · July 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

Here we go again...

Not pay to win, pay for convenience: if you are able to buy the lines is because you unlock them with another char...

actually on this topis it goes into pay 2 win...just grinding the skillines out, will bring enough EXP to bring you up to lvl 45-50
So how can a LVL 3 char have all skyshards, + some of the most grindy skillines without ever having killed something?

IMO each of these skilllines should NOT be in th ecronwtore, due to the EXP problem which can occur.

vamp_emily · July 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

this time it really is pay to win, I havent done the maths but its going to be near impossible to level up fighters without getting close to 50. So regarding purely sub 50 twinking, yes, it is far more pay to win.

Not that twinking isnt already dumb as ***.

Unless they changed something you can have dawnbreaker morphed at level 3.

Trust me I am a "twinkly lil star".

code65536 · July 2019

Just restrict skill line purchases to people who are level 50.

If people are looking for convenience for getting a character ready for vet content, this restriction would not hinder them.

If people are looking to twink out a new character to steamroll sub-50 PvP, then they'll have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Derra · July 2019

Just don´t allow them to be bought on that aren´t 50?

yodased · July 2019

So either 50% of every person interacting with all these threads has me on ignore or they just refuse to look at evidence.

ChunkyCat · July 2019

If they don’t add a mechanism to prevent me from getting Dawnbreaker at level 10, you’re damn sure I’m going to slaughter some mofos.

#ForTheLulz

yodased · July 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If they don’t add a mechanism to prevent me from getting Dawnbreaker at level 10, you’re damn sure I’m going to slaughter some mofos.

#ForTheLulz

They already have it. How is this hard to understand. You can already get dawnbreaker at level 10 and you are not slaughtering mofos.

code65536 · July 2019

yodased wrote: »

So either 50% of every person interacting with all these threads has me on ignore or they just refuse to look at evidence.

Just because twinking is already possible doesn't mean that it should be encouraged and/or made easier.

A level 50 restriction won't adversely impact the most common use case: getting a new character ready for vet content.

And although it won't prevent twinking, it doesn't encourage it and make it too easy. What's not to understand?

ChunkyCat · July 2019

yodased wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If they don’t add a mechanism to prevent me from getting Dawnbreaker at level 10, you’re damn sure I’m going to slaughter some mofos.

#ForTheLulz

They already have it. How is this hard to understand. You can already get dawnbreaker at level 10 and you are not slaughtering mofos.

talk about fake news.

lulz.

yodased · July 2019

code65536 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So either 50% of every person interacting with all these threads has me on ignore or they just refuse to look at evidence.

Just because twinking is already possible doesn't mean that it should be encouraged and/or made easier.

A level 50 restriction won't adversely impact the most common use case: getting a new character ready for vet content.

And although it won't prevent twinking, it doesn't encourage it and make it too easy. What's not to understand?

I am not saying anything about if you should or shouldn't do it.

The point is, when you are up in arms about something that already exists in the game and saying it is pay to win or that it will change things you are just wrong.

It doesn't change anything, if anything it shines a light on the supposed problem of rerolls.

Just because I present facts doesn't mean I agree with the implication of those facts.

Stop spreading misinformation about what is possible in the game and the argument about whether it should be there in the first place can be had.

Fur_like_snow · July 2019

Even if you prevented new characters from purchasing skill lines it won’t change anything in that campaign. Besides Zeni is in business to make money and part of how they’re doing just that is selling the skill lines. Honestly sounds like a L2P issue for the OP.

As others have said just level up and get outta that bracket if you can’t handle the heat.

yodased · July 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

If they don’t add a mechanism to prevent me from getting Dawnbreaker at level 10, you’re damn sure I’m going to slaughter some mofos.

#ForTheLulz

They already have it. How is this hard to understand. You can already get dawnbreaker at level 10 and you are not slaughtering mofos.

talk about fake news.

lulz.

@chunkycat just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Fur_like_snow · July 2019

Yeah it’s very easy to level up fighters guild at low level while earning very little exp. it’s nothing new and hardly a secret anymore. The earliest I’ve morphed DB was level 22ish but I’m certain it can be done even sooner.

Dojohoda · July 2019

This only matters in lowbie PVP. It's not p2w. It can create an Advantage over new pvp'ers and over players who will not buy the skill lines for various reasons. By itself, extra skill lines are not extremely advantageous but, paired with gold gear that some dedicated rerollers have, it is absolutely a recipe for unfair gameplay, especially against new players.

BWB used to allow CP and it was finally disabled. Anyone who was there at the time should remember how ridiculous CP in BWB was.

People can buy whatever they want but, in my opinion, purchased skill lines should be disabled in all instances of lowbie PVP. Gold gear and group dungeon and trial sets should also be disabled.

yodased · July 2019

Dojohoda wrote: »

This only matters in lowbie PVP. It's not p2w. It can create an Advantage over new pvp'ers and over players who will not buy the skill lines for various reasons. By itself, extra skill lines are not extremely advantageous but, paired with gold gear that some dedicated rerollers have, it is absolutely a recipe for unfair gameplay, especially against new players.

BWB used to allow CP and it was finally disabled. Anyone who was there at the time should remember how ridiculous CP in BWB was.

People can buy whatever they want but, in my opinion, purchased skill lines should be disabled in all instances of lowbie PVP. Gold gear and group dungeon and trial sets should also be disabled.

Now here is a conversation that can and should happen in my opinion.

I am of the opinion that its a total scumbag thing to do and if you are rerolling gold geared pre50s then you are a horrible example of a gamer, but at the same time, if they can get 12 level 30s to run asylum or they spend the money to gold their gear why should that be disallowed?

The one thing that would be able to solve this is to have two pre 50 campaigns.

1 for people that do no have any characters above 50 and one for people that do. As soon as you hit CP you can no longer roll into that baby pvp.

This will remove the advantage from rolling alts against people that have no history in the game while giving the supposed "rerollers" a place to fight in the restricted environment they claim to enjoy.

The problem with this is there is no way enough population to support it.

ChunkyCat · July 2019

Dawnbreaker at level 10 in its current form is an exploit. Feel free to get yourself banned.