Buying completed skill trees makes the under-level-50 PvP campaign pay-to-win

MajBludd

They can grind these skills out and not buy anything. Meteor, psijic ult, 2h ult, destro ult, s&b ult, and dawn breaker. I've seen them all used in under 50.

All zos needs to do is price them at 3-5k crowns and only a small few will buy them.

They'll just continue obtaining these skill lines for free the way they have been doing it for years now.
And do you really think zos will block certain ppl from making them money?

Edit. I've also seen vipers, bsw, bone pirates, asylum weaps, and monster sets in under 50. What do propose zos do about those items?

Nordic__Knights

MajBludd wrote: »

They can grind these skills out and not buy anything. Meteor, psijic ult, 2h ult, destro ult, s&b ult, and dawn breaker. I've seen them all used in under 50.

All zos needs to do is price them at 3-5k crowns and only a small few will buy them.

They'll just continue obtaining these skill lines for free the way they have been doing it for years now.
And do you really think zos will block certain ppl from making them money?

Edit. I've also seen vipers, bsw, bone pirates, asylum weaps, and monster sets in under 50. What do propose zos do about those items?

Yes you are correct all of this is current practices but as you stated they grinded means they at least done some work and the gear collection well that in itself takes time effort even if it is pretty cheesy it still takes time and that's what we're saying here don't just give them a free hand in the game to be able to get achievements if they got to do it in a Cheesy way well I guess that's just on them but let's not just hand it to them

Hawke9

Pay 2 win doesn't mean pay 2 lazy. Different things. This is pay 2 lazy, nothing more. Pay 2 win is defined as paying for an advantage over another person. So, if I'm willing to grind out these skill lines, how is the person buying those same skill lines having an advantage over me? They were lazy, they aren't winning. We have no advantages over each other, and everything we have can be obtained in the game through normal play, at any level.

MincVinyl

Yeah this is a non issue, the only thing that you will be able to get that you currently already cant before level 10 is undaunted. If you think having a little bit more max stat will make you better idk what to say.

I dont think I know a single person that would be wasting probs 2000 crowns to be able to have a very minimal buff for a week of gameplay in lowbie.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

casparian wrote: »

The under 50 campaign is one of two things: a training wheels campaign for the inexperienced and undergeared, or a playground for maxed out twinks who have been rerolling there since it was Blackwater Blade. Since ZOS doesn’t enforce conditions that would promote the former, it has largely been the latter for years. The players you’re talking about already bring guild ultimates etc. to their noob-smashing adventures, and no one (neither ZOS nor the campaign’s regulars) seems to care very much. This change will only mean they have the opportunity to lose real world money in doing so, instead of merely their dignity.

Facts. I remember beginning of 2017 I think, I went into BWB because I had friends in there and came across this one dude with an Ego larger than the EP pop. He was always Emp and every 10 levels, he'd have new Golded gear. I knew this guy and others would delete toons that hit 50 and came back in later.

Sub 50 is a good idea in concept but horribly implemented. There's no measures to prevent smurfs/long time players. It's a shame because PvP is a massive turn off for new players. They tell me "I went in and got demolished. I can't do anything, so I don't plan on going back. At least any time soon"

SirSchmoopy1535

I think it would be perfectly reasonable to limit buying Skill lines to only toons that are Champion level.

Dusk_Coven

slofwnd wrote: »

Just make the skill line purchase available to lvl 50 toons, makes everyone happy. Alts get their skill lines when ready for end game content, twinks can't use them in below 50 pvp.

Skill Unlocks are probably meant as a shortcut for PvE player alts -- where this compromise isn't going to really hurt at all.
I still think a zoom-to-50 token is coming soon, which would fit this compromise perfectly.

Hallothiel

Asked about this on another thread about this being pay-to-win for sub 50 pvp - never knew ‘twinks’ were a thing!

So people deliberately re-roll their characters so they can fight people who are trying out pvp, and stomp all over them to - what? Massage their ego? How bloody sad.

Would be better for sub50 to just come into normal pvp and join a group or guild & learn that way.

(And its therefore its not pay-to-win. It’s pay-to-be-a-d!ck)

Austinseph1

Just remove the campaign and we are all on equal grounds, problem solved

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO

Hallothiel wrote: »

Asked about this on another thread about this being pay-to-win for sub 50 pvp - never knew ‘twinks’ were a thing!

So people deliberately re-roll their characters so they can fight people who are trying out pvp, and stomp all over them to - what? Massage their ego? How bloody sad.

Would be better for sub50 to just come into normal pvp and join a group or guild & learn that way.

(And its therefore its not pay-to-win. It’s pay-to-be-a-d!ck)

Not at all, I make new toons all the time and my preferred method of leveling up is BG's.

I also happen to have a crafter so do craft purple sets to optimize my toon. Do i do this to stomp people? Not at all.

I do this to get a feel of how that toon will play at end level and to get familiar with its playstyle etc, why should I gimp myself or my learned knowledge to make a new players feel special??

Mettaricana

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Personally, I think it is real-wrong to allow players to use real money to buy skyshard skill points and completed skill trees. But it's in the game or soon will be, so it is a done-deal. However, Dear ZOS, please consider adding a "flag" to characters such that if a player buys skyshard skill points or any completed skill tree at the Crown Store that character CANNOT enter the under-level-50 PvP campaign. Being able to use a credit card to buy skill points and completed skill trees for a new character clearly makes the under-level-50 campaign Pay-to-Win. There are some players who spend most of their game-time in that campaign and won't mind spending the real money to dominate other (poorer) players. I have enjoyed playing this campaign in the past; but I shudder to think how this campaign will play with big-spenders able to buy advanced character abilities for their new characters. I am very sad to see the game go down this path.

Last i checked under 50 is for noobs regardless of skills we got under 50 maxed werewolves and dawn breaker slingers as well as max psijic bubblers there is virtually nothing level restricted stopping anyone from having max skill lines by the time they hit bgs. Its not pay to win its pay to avoid grind.

labambao

Also zos need add an option to stop exp gaining by character. I know few guys who plays only under 50 campaign in case it don't lag in prime, I would like to try it myself, but exping new character every few weeks is the thing I am not ready to.

Idinuse

No it doesn't.

If the Skill Trees could be bought without ever having to complete them first, it would be P2W. It isn't.

The ones that can buy the skill trees have already been doing hard what other people seem too lazy to do. It's a fair offer for having done the hard work already.

After you've played this game for over 5 years too I'm certain you'll see it the same way. The 18th time you have to level Mages/Fighters/Assault etc trees, you'll be so burnt out you consider leaving the game for something more rewarding and fun...

This is a good change, pity it simply wasn't unlocked account wide instead of going to the CS.