7K Necro Bash... Is this for real?

Vapirko · May 2019

I tried bringing this up during PTS and people told me I was an idiot that didn’t know what he was talking about. So here we are. Wait until people get around to organizing groups of these. Also that’s low. I know people that have managed a 30K tooltip. 7-9k spammable aoe ult. It’s like a spammable flawless DB that gives you 30k health.

Emma_Overload · May 2019

Bashev wrote: »

The problem I see is that the bash CD is too low. You can use 5 bash in 2 seconds. That Ultimate should change the bash CD to 1 per second.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm not sure the people supporting this realize how fast these attacks are hitting. This guy just walks up to you and the next thing you know your dead, lol.

Emma_Overload · May 2019

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

LOL at "screaming". All I did was post a screenshot, and people are jumping all over me with hysterical multi-paragraph essays.

godchucknzilla · May 2019

Not so sure it's OP actually.

mann9753b16_ESO · May 2019

Yeah, so it begins, the Werewolf treatment all over again, people wont be happy until its not even worth paying that much Ultimate to transform…

Happened to Werewolf, will happen to Bone Goliath.

twilightwarrick · May 2019

wish all the pvp players would stop moaning every time there's an ability they don't like
there's been that many nerfs lately, its not funny.
and for someone that mainly pve,s its ruining the whole game
suck it up and be a man, or woman

barney2525 · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Sounds like a classic case of being impatient that got you all killed. Goliath form only lasts 20 seconds and you can still use CC to hinder his approach while you stall out the clock. After Goliath runs out the Necro Tank will be vulnerable with little dps options and you can take him out.

Wait a minute. That sounds like strategy and tactics.

Are we allowed to use them?

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2019

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

Yeah, would be a shame if the devs are so inconsiderate to the conditions of a skill and simply nerf the damage to the ground so nobody wants to use it anymore - like with Dizzy Swing, right?

Bashev · May 2019

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

So what do you propose? Nerfing a passive (1h/s) that could be used by all classes to keep one skill for one class?
The problem is that the skill is AoE, that can be used 5 times in 2 seconds and if you build correctly it hits like a truck. All this is about PvP.

As you pointed out it is 20 seconds ultimate that disable ultimate gaining. So if someone decide to build for such a gameplay he can ruin my time when he decide to use it on me.

For these 20 seconds it is almost impossible to kite as that player will have 50k hp, and cheap bash with gap closer from 1h/s. Of course after the ulti ends he will die but why Devs should design such skills that a monkey can use when the ulti is charged.

Elwendryll · May 2019

I love the concept of the ultimate, I think it's fine because you can just deal damage during a 20 seconds window and it's expensive. And on top of that, you probably don't deal any damage outside of the ultimate. I didn't level my Necro yet, but I really don't want to see it nerfed. I think CC/snare is the best solution here.

Vapirko · May 2019

twilightwarrick wrote: »

wish all the pvp players would stop moaning every time there's an ability they don't like
there's been that many nerfs lately, its not funny.
and for someone that mainly pve,s its ruining the whole game
suck it up and be a man, or woman

Except none of the recent nerfs affect PvE at all really.

Trueblue · May 2019

Even if this skill hit for 7k remember, this hit don't have "CD" so in 1 sec you can get hit 2-3 time soo 7x2 = 14k per sec dmg and not to 1 person. This is main problem of this skill... but they are weak in pvp or i got low skill ppl as enemy.

david_m_18b16_ESO · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

I don't play a necromancer, but I don't think this is OP. It's a 250 cost ultimate. The bone goliath form is very obvious and only lasts 20 seconds. You basically just get the hell out of dodge when a necro uses this and try to stall for time. After stalling for 20 seconds you re-engage. Learn to play issue simply put.
And yes I too foolishly attacked a necromancer in goliath form (the AOE morph) because I had no idea how it worked, and yes I died.

"just don't engage" and "run away" isn't valid counter-play. if an ability is so good that your only option is to opt out of combat entirely, it's too good.

Well its the way to counted many abilities that are perfectly balanced curently. destro ulti, nilifi magic. If you see a big goliath be aware of and start kitting.

If ESo decide to adjust it I hope they will finaly choose to now completly gut it for PvE simply for PvP.

pieratsos · May 2019

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

Sorry but that's not how balance works. You can't excuse ridiculously powerful effects because they have high cost or other very restrictive conditions. You still have to look at the actual effect and what it does. If you had an ult with a 500 cost it doesn't mean that it should have 100k tooltip. Yes it would be balanced if you look at the cost but it's still broken because it would simply one shot everyone.

Now I don't know how hard Goliath actually hits but just because it's expensive it doesn't mean that u should be able to bash people to death in 2 seconds. That's dumb. Just another usual example of an extreme scenario that ZOS seems incapable to balance cause they have no clue what they are doing.

Savos_Saren · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Honestly, the Necro Ultimate "bash build" is one of those one-trick pony builds. It gets very, very boring quickly. (Think on the lines of high health "Blazeplars" {which don't really exist anymore} and IceDens who have strong Gripping Shards.)

You'll probably see this build running around for a couple of weeks and then people will get tired of having to wait to reach 250 ultimate to eventually do damage to other players.

It's just an ult, you don't really need to build around it if you're already s/b, you just need to slot it.

In order to have uber strong damage with that build- you have to have three bash damage enchants on your jewelry and key your interrupt to a different key (other than holding right mouse and then clicking the left mouse). The OP had 19k resistances (which is low to me).

I dueled people running this build on the PTS. They were weak up until the moment that they transformed and then spammed bash. Again- the playstyle is boring as hell until you can finally use your ultimate. Once people figure out that it's a thing- dying to it will be about the same as dying to a BlazePlar build.

Complain until it gets nerfed or just avoid that bash. I don't care. I don't run boring niche builds.

TheYKcid · May 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Isn’t the OP a sorc? Showing damage numbers is meaningless without context. If the person’s a glass canon in all divines every damage ability is OP... unless it’s on a sorc

Nope.

I received multiple 7k hits on my heavy Stamsorc in a BG, too. 23k resists (29.5 with Bloodspawn up), full impen, minor protection from Psijic ult.

It's effectively a Dawnbreaker that's literally spammable more than once a second. Let that sink in.

It's absurdly overturned, and anyone defending this is laughably out of touch with PvP balance.

You think costing twice as much ult as a DB balances it? What about the part where you can spam it 20+ times in a row? By the way that's a trivial amount to accumulate for a build running Bspawn, Heroic Slash and TWO sources of ultgen within the class' toolkit.

But by all means, double the cost of my DB if that means I can blow it 20 times over. Sign me the f*** up already!

Bashev · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Honestly, the Necro Ultimate "bash build" is one of those one-trick pony builds. It gets very, very boring quickly. (Think on the lines of high health "Blazeplars" {which don't really exist anymore} and IceDens who have strong Gripping Shards.)

You'll probably see this build running around for a couple of weeks and then people will get tired of having to wait to reach 250 ultimate to eventually do damage to other players.

It's just an ult, you don't really need to build around it if you're already s/b, you just need to slot it.

In order to have uber strong damage with that build- you have to have three bash damage enchants on your jewelry and key your interrupt to a different key (other than holding right mouse and then clicking the left mouse). The OP had 19k resistances (which is low to me).

I dueled people running this build on the PTS. They were weak up until the moment that they transformed and then spammed bash. Again- the playstyle is boring as hell until you can finally use your ultimate. Once people figure out that it's a thing- dying to it will be about the same as dying to a BlazePlar build.

Complain until it gets nerfed or just avoid that bash. I don't care. I don't run boring niche builds.

Just wait for the videos where 3 good players charge a zerg on the flag and melt them. Imagine 3 ppl bashing 5 attacks in 2 seconds for 7k aoe. This is 5*7*3 = 105k damage for 2 seconds

mann9753b16_ESO · May 2019

Ah well, seriously, I dont even care, nerf it, its a pure PvP ability anyway and the other morph is way cooler.

Trueblue · May 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Ah well, seriously, I dont even care, nerf it, its a pure PvP ability anyway and the other morph is way cooler.

but not OP like this

... find me other ulti where you can hit 14k in 1s to group for 20s. Like ppl say, 3 of them enter pvp zerg and zerg die. I remember when Ulti from Vampire was OP, hit like truck, 2-3 vampire can wipe full raid... same here with Bash. They nerf Vampire ulti so they will nerf necro.

Vercingetorix · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Sounds like a classic case of being impatient that got you all killed. Goliath form only lasts 20 seconds and you can still use CC to hinder his approach while you stall out the clock. After Goliath runs out the Necro Tank will be vulnerable with little dps options and you can take him out.

ah yes, if you don't want to get deleted by a 7k bash, just run away. this goes for any other abilities that have ever been overpowered, just run away bro lol. also only "tanks" use the goliath ult, no one runs s/b in pvp and does damage and in fact there is no one in pvp who builds around s/b with high weapon damage and reduced bash cost to bash weave. what am i even reading.

Yes, god forbid you recklessly charge into combat and get punished for it. /s

You seriously need to re-examine your skill if demanding a nerf instead of simply adapting to a new class is your first recourse. What do you think players do when an enemy fires off a Destro Ult? What do you think players do when a DK activates Corrosive Armor? Do you honestly think players decide to just chill inside a Warden's Permafrost for fun? Kiting and stalling out an opponent who has a temporary combat advantage is TACTICAL and INTELLIGENT. L2P

Masel · May 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

So what do you propose? Nerfing a passive (1h/s) that could be used by all classes to keep one skill for one class?
The problem is that the skill is AoE, that can be used 5 times in 2 seconds and if you build correctly it hits like a truck. All this is about PvP.

As you pointed out it is 20 seconds ultimate that disable ultimate gaining. So if someone decide to build for such a gameplay he can ruin my time when he decide to use it on me.

For these 20 seconds it is almost impossible to kite as that player will have 50k hp, and cheap bash with gap closer from 1h/s. Of course after the ulti ends he will die but why Devs should design such skills that a monkey can use when the ulti is charged.

A cooldown in bash is something you can actually talk about (even though the finicky timing of bashing is also problematic in that context, since you need to spam bash very often to actually interrupt) or just to reduce bash damage overall (it is meant to be used to interrupt anyway).

I'm whatever case, I dont want necro to get the warden treatment. It already happened to blastbone that is so easy to avoid and kill that I removed it from my bar. This skill is very costly, even more so than others (effectively 330 to 350 ultimate). Res ultimate was also increased by a lot and I barely see it used anywhere cause the tradeoff became quite unfavourable in most situations.

Wardens for example lost a stun (a very good one), got a bad one back, and lost a lot of their original flavour because of situations like these.

Masel · May 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

You can use that ultimate only after you regained 250 Ultimate after 20 seconds where your ultigen is completely stopped. You give up cheap and powerful ultimates (DboS for example) for that 20s window where you might be able to bash people to death (if they arent careful).

Screaming how OP this is just based on a death recap after 3 days of patch time isnt really how to convince devs to listen to your feedback. Look at the tooltip and compare it to similar ultimates (such as EotS), other passives that might boost it (such as the 1h&s passive that most players combine this with) and instead of trying to get an ultimate ability nerfed to the ground (which are allowed to be powerful and meant to be dangerous to others), maybe we need to look at other passives that make this so strong...

Reducing the potency of this ultimate further (it was already nerfed from its original state) will simply stop players from using it, especially because it is so expensive.

LOL at "screaming". All I did was post a screenshot, and people are jumping all over me with hysterical multi-paragraph essays.

So the title of this topic isnt hysterical, especially in conjunction with that screenshot? Look, I'm not here to dismiss valid concerns, but the way this post started was barely useful.

Arunei · May 2019

For everyone saying the cost of the Ult is high, take into account some of the Necro skills. Corpse Consumption is a passive one that at Rank 2 gives you I believe 10 Ult whenever you use a skill on a corpse Necrotic Potency is one that gives you 6 Ult for the initial cast on corpse, plus and additional 6 for every other corpse you use it on.

Bone Armor, the skill that buffs a Necro's resists, creates a corpse when the effect ends. Other Necro skills also create corpses, like the Mage you can morph into a healer, the archer, and Blastbones. I can see a Necro tank spamming the Healer and Bone Armor + Necrotic Potency, coupled with Heroic Slash or Minor Heroism pots, to rack up Ult fairly quickly in PvP.

And if the tank is good enough to survive the time between Goliath tranfomations, then kiting until the Ult ends doesn't matter at all. They'll just absorb what you throw at them until the Ult is ready again.

mairwen85 · May 2019

kollege14a5 wrote: »

HI GOT THE SAME PROBLEM WITH DK
CORROSIVE KILLED ME IS THIS FOR REAL??? I WAS STANDING THERE IN BLOCK LIKE I USUALLY DO AND HE DID SO MUCH DMG AND THEN I READ THE ULT AND I WAS SHOCKED. IT IGNORES ARMOR WTF? IS THIS FOR REAL? PLS NERF TY

I THINK YOU NEED TO TURN YOUR HEARING AID UP!

peoplething · May 2019

imagine 10 of these guys zergging it up with volendump

that'd be nuts!

eh, just put a cool down on it and let it hit the same.

sharquez · May 2019

TBH I think this game could use a bit more overwhelming force. if you aren't taking cover blocking and avoiding hits and eating damage, You should be dying. I like when things die. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Rikumaru · May 2019

Ayy, finally someone made a thread on this build. Just an FYI the build is worthless outside of goliath form and the counterplay is literally just to run for 20s and then when their ultimate runs out, to burst the player.

FYI run double damage sets + infused bash damage glyphs. What I ran on PTS was 7th + acuity + bloodspawn with shadow mundus and race against time. Tanky and deals insane amounts of damage. Avoid max stamina since this doesn't actually buff up the damage from the goliath bash.

Cortimi · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

no one runs s/b in pvp and does damage and in fact there is no one in pvp who builds around s/b with high weapon damage and reduced bash cost to bash weave. what am i even reading.

My heavy armor StamDK with 5k+ WD on SnB bar disagrees. Only thing you got right was I don't use reduced bash cost.

mann9753b16_ESO · May 2019

Trueblue wrote: »

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Ah well, seriously, I dont even care, nerf it, its a pure PvP ability anyway and the other morph is way cooler.

but not OP like this ... find me other ulti where you can hit 14k in 1s to group for 20s. Like ppl say, 3 of them enter pvp zerg and zerg die. I remember when Ulti from Vampire was OP, hit like truck, 2-3 vampire can wipe full raid... same here with Bash. They nerf Vampire ulti so they will nerf necro.

Yeah, nerf it. I dont do PvP, I dont care for the PvP morph.
As long as they dont touch Ravenous Goliath I am fine if they nerf Pummeling Goliath to the ground xD

Waffennacht · May 2019

1. people list resistance like 22k is gonna do more than stop 8% - your 22k resistance may as well be 5 at max
2. Surprise attack can be spammed and deals 6k in BGs and isn't an ultimate
3. Bashing bypassing GCD is a problem imo
4. They could try making any Necro abilities better then I'd be ok nerfing ults