Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Dracane · May 2019

No sane person would give Nightblades even more sustain and even more deadliness in pvp.
It is obvious, that there is an unhealthy bias in the dev team that is trying to overbuff Nightblades.

Reave and Silence needs to removed and then never even touch this ability again. It has more than enough debuffs right now.
Oh Wrobel, is this your revenge ? Is this the plan you had in store for us ? The day we would finally regret loosing you.

Wuuffyy · May 2019

^^^

I think sorc shield needs to be removed and never touched again. 15-20k overshields is a huge part of toxicity in the game rn

jcm2606 · May 2019

Icky wrote: »

[snip]

How does a magicka player L2P against this? We can't spam dodge roll, not that it works since they changed it. We can't block, silence will go through the block. There is no break free on being silenced, so it's not like we can break it. Magicka literally has no counter to this obscenely broken change.
[edited to remove quote]

DisgracefulMind · May 2019

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Strider__Roshin · May 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

DisgracefulMind · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live. Weakest ult in the game basically.

lmao okay

DisgracefulMind · May 2019

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Wuuffyy · May 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Then you can roll.

Wuuffyy · May 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Then you can roll.

Also fear takes one second so you are down to two. Your move.

Minno · May 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Then you can roll.

Also fear takes one second so you are down to two. Your move.

Have you considered changing your name to Wolf-Quoting?

DisgracefulMind · May 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Then you can roll.

Also fear takes one second so you are down to two. Your move.

Nice, because breaking free of fear is so consistent in this game!

You're so right, let's just buff nb even more (: It totally needs it, there's no other classes that need any sort of attention.

Strider__Roshin · May 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Make undodgeable abilities go through damage Shields and you have a deal :-)

ruikkarikun · May 2019

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Bring back major defile to incap back please. Maybe change numbers a bit, but please stop do this insane changes. it's not healthy for game community.

I mean do you really think we are all fools?
Some of us are developers too. We know how it works.

You are doing changes for changes. It's a cheap and low way to keep player interest. What is it? Too much "capitalism"?

Why you don't focus on huge lags/performance and other high priority things instead of nerf-buff circle.
If you want to force people to leave, you are doing it well. Keep going.

Again you CAN stop this cheap way, it's all in your hands, just change your minds about strategy please.
Otherwise this game will be empty soon.

DisgracefulMind · May 2019

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

While you're at it, how about providing better counterplay for soul assault, radiant destruction, and Haunting Curse for medium armor builds. I don't see why Magicka keeps getting special treatment.

Block?

Great idea. You could do the same when I silence you via Incap.

Then you can fear us and before we break the fear you'll be able to combo us before the silence is over - so balanced!!

Actually, if we're going to put more forms of silence in the game, silence needs to effect magicka and stamina then (:

Make undodgeable abilities go through damage Shields and you have a deal :-)

I'm not a sorc, so direct your frustrations at sorcs and shield stacking, not all magicka players are sorcs just fyi

Azaduur · May 2019

Spizzie wrote: »

Azaduur wrote: »

Spizzie wrote: »

Azaduur wrote: »

Silence is strong I agree, but when I read things like "don't discuss counterplay" all I see is "dont make me work to stay alive, just remove what will make my life difficult so that i dont have to deal with it myself." It makes it really hard to take seriously, I doubt theyll keep the silence on incap, they responded really quick to the outrage, i dont know what theyll do, there is only going to be one more round of changes before Elsweyr goes live. Really I'm just glad they got rid of Minor Mangle. I'd have traded Minor Mangle for this new "Reave" feature any day of the week, didn't need to silence in place of stun though, guess we'll see how it goes.

Your inexperience on a Magicka character is blatant. There is no "working to stay alive" when you're silenced. Here are the options to stay alive when you're on a mag player and you're silenced:

1. Become unsilenced

That's it. There is literally no alternative. It'd be like telling a Stam character that in addition to having your heals and attacks unusable for 3 seconds, you also can't roll dodge or block. Funny enough, stamblades are probably the only class that -could- survive that because they can just cloak for the duration. The bias for stamblades in this game is absolutely gross, and I say that from the perspective of somebody who plays mag and stam iterations of every class.

Nightblades can cloak while silenced? I never knew...my magika experience is poor though as you have stated. Ill take your word for it and cloak while silenced from now on.

No you can't cloak. You can, however, use every other ability on your bar that doesn't use magicka. That includes: vigor, rally, surprise attack, execute, gap closer, poison inject.

And also you can roll dodge and block, which isn't an issue because you have 34K+ stamina and enormous cost reduction on your roll dodge. Pretty bad strawman you built there.

You specifically mentioned cloak. I specifically mentioned cloak. No strawman is present, claiming im making a strawman argument is a red herring to distract readers from your earlier uninformed claim that nightblades can "cloak for the duration".

TheBonesXXX · May 2019

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

You're off to a rough start. Silence on one of the hardest hitting single target abilities in the game?

Who did you collect data from? Bias players?

grannas211 · May 2019

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

You're off to a rough start. Silence on one of the hardest hitting single target abilities in the game?

Who did you collect data from? Bias players?

yes @Gilliamtherogue

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Berenhir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

As a Magblade I would run it.

But I don't want anyone else running it lol.

So please make it something else...again.

^ this. I really don't wanna switch to stamblade, so probably using this new incap will be enough to counter-act anybody other then stamblades 2nd place is better then last, huh?

Berenhir wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

There is no counterplay. If you make silence breakable again, this is nothing but an ability that only "stuns" magicka chars with the opportunity of a follow up stun if not broken fast enough.

Incap is a high damage ult that increases all your damage against the target by 20%, gives crit for being slotted and is the cheapest ult in the game. What else does it need? If you want a gimmick, give something like a gimmick. Give minor lifesteal or whatever.

It cost after this will be 120, it's damage is not that big for 120 ult (hi, soul assault!) and so on. Only problem is silence is such a strong debuff and negates active defense.

Its cost remains the same, the additional effect is just at 120 ult.

But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live. Weakest ult in the game basically. From where is info about "high damage"??? I saw a ton of incaps in recap, they were just slightly (20-25%) more powerful then surprise attacks. And only a 10-15% more powerful then *** frags or bow proc. Incap is powerful when it is part of burst.. .when it is just threw directly in your face by NB which struggles to survive your pressure, i.e. dodges/heals etc, you like "lol, dude just wasted ult".

Idk who you fight if you think incap is the weakest ult in the game. Incap regularly hits for anything between 7k and 12k on PvP builds. It has a 20% damage increase, and will be buffed with 10% from exploiter and 10% from follow up when casted at 70 ult on the defense as in your example.

It's my recap, in duels and duel-likes conditions with NBs. I have like 25k resists at average. And I didn't told incap is weak. I told that incap will be weak by itself at 70 cost if used on expecting target and out of burst. I usually receive like 6-8k incaps, 5-6k frags, 4-5k surprise attacks.
Exploiter and follow up are part of standard burst.. (1) and we were talking about new incap (2), in my message I wrote:
(1) "Incap is powerful when it is part of burst.. "
(2) "But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live.."

So before starting with "idk who you fight" may be you should read. And you may contact me at PC EU and show your 12k incap in duel, I always ready to learn something new.

Elong · May 2019

People are actually defending this as being balanced?

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Elong wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

As a Magblade I would run it.

But I don't want anyone else running it lol.

So please make it something else...again.

^ this. I really don't wanna switch to stamblade, so probably using this new incap will be enough to counter-act anybody other then stamblades 2nd place is better then last, huh?

Berenhir wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

There is no counterplay. If you make silence breakable again, this is nothing but an ability that only "stuns" magicka chars with the opportunity of a follow up stun if not broken fast enough.

Incap is a high damage ult that increases all your damage against the target by 20%, gives crit for being slotted and is the cheapest ult in the game. What else does it need? If you want a gimmick, give something like a gimmick. Give minor lifesteal or whatever.

It cost after this will be 120, it's damage is not that big for 120 ult (hi, soul assault!) and so on. Only problem is silence is such a strong debuff and negates active defense.

Its cost remains the same, the additional effect is just at 120 ult.

But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live. Weakest ult in the game basically. From where is info about "high damage"??? I saw a ton of incaps in recap, they were just slightly (20-25%) more powerful then surprise attacks. And only a 10-15% more powerful then *** frags or bow proc. Incap is powerful when it is part of burst.. .when it is just threw directly in your face by NB which struggles to survive your pressure, i.e. dodges/heals etc, you like "lol, dude just wasted ult".

This is full of so much incorrect information.

Care to elaborate or you just saw two words "incap is weak" and infuriated?

As I said, I always ready to learn something new, tell me point by point what is incorrect:
1. "But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live" - obviously correct since you won't have major defile with new incap.
2. "Weakest ult in the game basically" - which (viable) ult will be weaker then new incap not charged to 120?
3. "I saw a ton of incaps in recap, they were just slightly (20-25%) more powerful then surprise attacks. And only a 10-15% more powerful then *** frags or bow proc." - it's my mileage on balanced build in duels with skilled NB/Sorc. Your mileage may wary, it depends on your resistances and if opponent is balanced, tanky or glass cannon. If you are running glass sorc and was ganked by glass NB numbers will be different
4. "Incap is powerful when it is part of burst.." - obviously correct
5. "when incap is just threw directly in your face by NB which struggles to survive your pressure, i.e. dodges/heals etc it is waste" - obviously correct. Incap is offensive part of burst, if it used in desperation when NB can't burst due to necessity to heal/dodge/cloak/tp to shade/ whatever, it is waste.

So come on, other then point 3 which is subjective to your build and to opponents build, all seems pretty obviously correct for me. So plz list me your "full of incorrect information"

Rygonix · May 2019

Time to break out the ice staves boys and girls.. /facepalm

Edit: I thought this patch was to..y'know deflate over inflated abilities? How in the name of [redacted] does giving incap a silence effect solve anything?

Pr0Skygon · May 2019

If you seriously defend this new idiotic and utterly mindless change to Incap, then you either have never played any mag toon in PvP, or you're a troll, you're not even a "stamNB main" at this point.

Fun fact: I play stamNB on AD side, ganking EP on Ales bridge is my passion, and even I find this change dumb.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

If you seriously defend this new idiotic and utterly mindless change to Incap, then you either have never played any mag toon in PvP, or you're a troll, you're not even a "stamNB main" at this point.

Fun fact: I play stamNB on AD side, ganking EP on Ales bridge is my passion, and even I find this change dumb.

I don't defend it, and I in several posts agreed that this change is out of place. But new incap will be powerful only at 120 cost. At 70 it will be just another strong hit at execution stage. So NBs won't be able to burst with incap, gulp potion, receive BS proc and repeat burst again in 10 seconds. And if charging to 120, opponents ult will be charged too. Other question is that opponent won't be able to use it. And that's where incap is broken, it leaves opponent powerless for 3 seconds, no streak, no shield, no tp, no ulti, no magicka heal, nothing, only block, which will leave powerless against next cc.
So devs will probably allow to break-free from silence.

soynegroyque · May 2019

After this fiasco I would rather have actual players calling shots on the future patch notes.
The community here has actually come up with brilliant ideas and none of them are ever heard. Why not implement those instead of doing things literally no one wants.

Are you trying to test how far you have to take something before you have to back pedal?

Every patch we stray further from God's light

Lucky28 · May 2019

Silence on Incap..... what a horrible idea....

Corpier · May 2019

Who ever thought this was a good idea should be fired.

Not only is it brokenly overpowered, but it further homogenizes the game by giving a class a defining feature and of another class's iconic skill, Sorcerer's Negate.

Gilvoth · May 2019

three straight PTS patches in a ROW of nightblade nerfs that lasted almost 2 months!? yet we see only 1 thing that touches sorcerers and only lasts 3 seconds and WOW there an explosion on the forums soo big and includes soo many threads and pages and pages of complaints that the lead PVP balance comes out and makes comments about it and makes changes.
that shows proof this forum is THICK overwhelmed and dominated by people who main sorcerer class and dont you DARE touch sorcerer skills or sorcerer survivability!
that unfair, biased, and down right wrong!

Hexys · May 2019

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Hi Brian,

Thank you for the comment, keep in mind that you are not forced to bring out this content with Elsweyr. Let it release like before 5.0.3 and see how the mangle turns out, maybe even add that recovery bonus.

Good luck and have a nice day!

zyk · May 2019

The most reasonable explanation for the silence is that ZOS is trolling us. Silence is essentially a kind of CC that one can't break-free or gain immunity from which goes against the general design ethos in this application.

It's already so easy to gank on a Stamblade. One can burst down 30k targets in one or two gcds with even a defensive or sustain build. If those targets were also silenced for 3s, a Magicka build would probably need 50k health to reliably survive ganks without help.

So basically, this change is game-breaking.

Not only is it OP, but being locked out of magicka abilities and ultimates for 3 seconds at a time on a regular basis would be a terrible gameplay experience.

Also, I don't think players want to see more polarized abilities that shut down Magicka builds without affecting Stam builds as seriously.

Qbiken · May 2019

While this mainly affects magicka builds, many stamina specs also utilize magicka abilites as a part of their toolkit:

(just a few examples)
Stamsorc: Streak, Dark Deal, Crit Surge
Stamden: Shimmering Shield, Living Trellis, Ice Fortress, Lotus Flower
StamDK: Fragmented Shield, Wings (to a certain degree), GDB, Hardened Armor
Stamplar: RIP ritual
Stamblade: No cloak for you, no shade
Werewolfs: Hircine´s Bounty (Like their only way to actually heal themselves)

Just remove the silence completely, keep minor mangle, reave and see how things play out. Why even bother with necromancer for PvP when a version of incap like this exists?