Nightblade Dark Cloak changes

TheRealSniker · May 2019

I stopped reading at "Im a Nightblade Tank main"
If you wanna play a tank play a DK

Silver_Strider · May 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

I stopped reading at "Im a Nightblade Tank main"
If you wanna play a tank play a DK

I stopped reading after seeing your name since its clear you have nothing to add to the topic at hand.

KatySpirit · May 2019

The "one role per class" attitude is so 2015.

I don't understand why they messed around with Grim Focus in ways that help the already over-performing stamblades in PVP, but never did anything with the front loaded heal they were going to do for Dark Cloak to help tanks. The goal of these changes should be to make it easier to play all roles on the traditionally narrow-focused classes. Sure, pull the usefulness from every skill in the class, you can probably still tank or heal (or DPS) using nothing but weapon and guild abilities, but at that point it doesn't matter what class you are. Boring!

They were going in a good direction for a while with making nightblade versatile. I would say after warden (and soon necro) it was probably the most versatile class when Summerset came out. Maybe that's part of why it is so popular! They were able to DPS in both stamina and magic, tank in an accessible way without requiring all sets and skills be focused on its own survival, and heal while offering the unique bonus of doing a bit of damage because of the nature of nightblade's life-stealing heals. I would think that the next steps would have been to improve the other classes! But instead they have been backpedaling fast on the improvements to nightblade, stripping both old and new skills that made this class interesting and successful while doing nothing to actually impact the 1/4 of the class that is still OP (stamblades).

I don't know what they are doing with nightblade, but it's an utter mess right now.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · May 2019

edited

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · May 2019

edited

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · May 2019

maybe this its just a grand scheme...they nerfing it like this just to buff it next DLC to make us buy it...who knows maybe it will heal for 100% of the missing HP on cast and 50% of max hp over 8 seconds

TheRealSniker wrote: »

I stopped reading at "Im a Nightblade Tank main"
If you wanna play a tank play a DK

with every post im losing even more of the little respect I had... /facepalm

jypcy · May 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

edited

Saw the question about reaper’s mark in downstairs vCR but didn’t get a chance to respond right away. Not sure if you’re still curious, but because I’m debuffing all of the crystals with ele drain anyway I can pretty easily spot which the dps are working on and hit one with mark before it shatters.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · May 2019

jypcy wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

edited

Saw the question about reaper’s mark in downstairs vCR but didn’t get a chance to respond right away. Not sure if you’re still curious, but because I’m debuffing all of the crystals with ele drain anyway I can pretty easily spot which the dps are working on and hit one with mark before it shatters.

yeah I know that but my point was that its not reliable if u get a power hit right out when u go inside and then u need heavy self heal..what u doing then...still u even mentioned its not reliable so was more of a salt reply to a more pvp skill

Rex-Umbra · May 2019

Ability wasn't great in PvP but only heal I had as magicka build whom does not use restoration staff because ruins my dark shadowy theme.

jypcy · May 2019

Credit where due, I appreciate the devs coming back to this skill to add at least a bit more healing. The change presumably will still make tankblading harder than it is on live, but not as much of a chore as it could’ve been.

The playstyle could use some more group utility at some point in the future but I think I’ll be content if this iteration of the class goes live (minus the silencing incaps lmao).

ccfeeling · May 2019

Dark Cloak:
It will now heal the caster for 6% of their Max Health every 1 second, and duration can increase to a maximum of 8 seconds with other passives.

From the view of NB tank in PVE , the new DC is still a gargbage , it couldn't save me from most of fatal attacks in HM unless I have a self healer .

HOT skills stacking ? Refreshing Path + Funnel Health + Sap Essence , how about a restro staff ? ROFL

As a tank ? Seriously ? There are only 10 skills and 2 ultimates

It will be fun to take my tank to VBRP , FV HM , DOM HM with new DC .

I don't really need healing support as DK , Warden and Sorc tank , the fact NB tank lack of group support abilities and survivability right now .

Iskiab · May 2019

6% self healing isn’t bad, how much health do you have? If you’re at 60k that’s 3600 HPS self healing in pve, that’s not enough? Are you guys not realizing that dark cloak is 6% per second?

How much health is ebon plus plague doctor?

Edit - current Dark Cloak is 32% over 3.4 seconds, PTS is 6% per second for 8 seconds.

So over the old period it’s 20% vs 32% but it now lasts 8 seconds, looks like an upgrade to me.

jypcy · May 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

8% self healing isn’t bad, how much health do you have? If you’re at 60k that’s 5200 hps self healing in pve, that’s not enough? Are you guys not realizing that dark cloak is 8% per second?

How much health is ebon plus plague doctor?

Does it scale up to 8%? The notes for 5.0.3 said 6%. (Edit: I guess you edited yours while I was typing, so nvm

). Also 60k seems a bit excessive. A pretty standard pve tank build probably runs 35-40k health.

For a better example, the hot will tick for about 3k next patch on my main, ~37k health tankblade without any other changes to his build (taking into account healing received/done bonuses, if my math is right).

ccfeeling · May 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

8% self healing isn’t bad, how much health do you have? If you’re at 60k that’s 5200 hps self healing in pve, that’s not enough? Are you guys not realizing that dark cloak is 8% per second?

How much health is ebon plus plague doctor?

No idea , never try this setup , I guess 45k maybe ?

HP build is not that good , because we have to balance tankness , sustain and function , especially in hard contents ,

Stam and Mag pool are also important .

Silver_Strider · May 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

8% self healing isn’t bad, how much health do you have? If you’re at 60k that’s 5200 hps self healing in pve, that’s not enough? Are you guys not realizing that dark cloak is 8% per second?

How much health is ebon plus plague doctor?

No idea , never try this setup , I guess 45k maybe ?

HP build is not that good , because we have to balance tankness , sustain and function , especially in hard contents ,

Stam and Mag pool are also important .

You'd end up closer to 50k+ Health with Ebon/Plague due to the Dark Vigor passive and how many Shadow Abilities are on your Bar (Since this is about Dark Cloak you'll have at least that one on your bar). My Argonian NB Tank used Champion of the Hist/Alkosh/Lord Warden and could easily reach 35k Health; When I did have Ebon on, my health was typically in the 38-39k range (depending on hot bar) with swapping out CotH but still a noticeable increase in max health with Ebon/Alkosh. Swapping Plague in instead of Ebon had me in the 45k range, which was well beyond what I ever needed it to be.

Worth noting, my Chest/Legs/Helm/Shield are all infused with Prismatic Glyphs, I was using Tri-Stat food, and my Necklace was Triune, with 2 Robust Rings when using Champion of the Hist. With 30 points into Health, 34 points into Stamina, and 0 into Magic, I had 35k Health, 25k Stamina and 20k Magic, meaning resources were not incredibly low due to the combination of Dark Vigor + Magicka Flood providing such generous amounts of free resources for me and with the new Reave Passive on Incap, sustain will be even better now since we'll be getting the full benefit from that by front barring Incap and backbarring Warhorn and while our Ultimate Regen might take a minor hit from not using the Soul Harvest Passive instead, we now have a way of actually restoring our Magic that isn't just Equilibrium but that's speculation since I haven't tested that yet.

Jeezye · May 2019

Form a magblade PvP POV the DC from last PTS iteration was performing pretty decently in duels, ticking for 1-1,7 k. Now being 30% stronger, at least PvP wise the skill will be in a decent spot imo. Maybe it’s kinda costly for what it does, but it’s only cast every 8 secs so sustainable st least for me.

KatySpirit · May 2019

Thank you for looking at this skill and making some adjustments for nightblade tanks. We can continue to run sets that support the group without dying ourselves.

actosh · May 2019

Thx for the change, its in a pretty decent spot now.

Iskiab · May 2019

Yea, just adapt a bit and I’m sure you guys will be okay. With the changes to merciless being a HP tank makes a lot of sense. You can’t just substitute NB for DK with the same gear setup and expect it to work as well, you need to cater your spec to your class.

I think ebon plus plague doctor will be the best, but I don’t tank so I’m not sure. Use Dark Cloak like an always rolling self heal rather then a burst heal.

Tanking specs sure will change: merciless plus incap on tank builds, weird but if it works it works.

actosh · May 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, just adapt a bit and I’m sure you guys will be okay. With the changes to merciless being a HP tank makes a lot of sense. You can’t just substitute NB for DK with the same gear setup and expect it to work as well, you need to cater your spec to your class.

I think ebon plus plague doctor will be the best, but I don’t tank so I’m not sure. Use Dark Cloak like an always rolling self heal rather then a burst heal.

Tanking specs sure will change: merciless plus incap on tank builds, weird but if it works it works.

Mitigation wise Nb Tanks are fine without Merciless while wearing th typical tanksets at endgame, believe me, do it all the time. Merciless however is such a freaking strong buff to tankiness (if u wanna use it).

The new dark cloak is something i rly like.

dark cloak live on my build 3618 non crit / 6331 crit
dark cloak pts same build 2914 non crit / 5015 critical

But now it last double the time wich is great tbh ^^

Girl_Number8 · May 2019

With all the incap posts we need more 'Revert Dark Cloak Posts'

Zos might just listen now after the bomb they just dropped....

Because this was a stupid GIANT nerf, taking away the only decent burst heal....on the class.

Open field solo PvP on a magblade, playing visible 100% of time should have a decent burst heal, simple.

The fact that this also hits PvE just adds to how bad of a nerf this is. Zos needs to give us something here.

Insco851 · May 2019

Considering Rapid regen heals every 1.5-2 seconds for 900ish- (correct me if I’m
Wrong on the time frame, I know it ain’t every 1 sec) -Dark cloak healing every second for 700~ on a 23-24k pvp spec... it’s pretty solid. Also more minor protection uptime.

Non shade visible build is pretty tough. Rat or shade and idk if rat will be enough by itself. And with the cripple nerf... where’s the major expedition come from then?

Bar space on magblade got tougher this patch

Jeezye · May 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering Rapid regen heals every 1.5-2 seconds for 900ish- (correct me if I’m
Wrong on the time frame, I know it ain’t every 1 sec) -Dark cloak healing every second for 700~ on a 23-24k pvp spec... it’s pretty solid. Also more minor protection uptime.

Non shade visible build is pretty tough. Rat or shade and idk if rat will be enough by itself. And with the cripple nerf... where’s the major expedition come from then?

Bar space on magblade got tougher this patch

the two were almost identical in healing output least PTS iteration where I tested a pvp magblade with around 27k hp. With the current buffs and a littly higher HP pool of ~30k I think it will significantly outperform rapids.

Even though I've always advocated to run light armor on every magblade build, even tanks, I might now look into heavy once again.

Iskiab · May 2019

actosh wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, just adapt a bit and I’m sure you guys will be okay. With the changes to merciless being a HP tank makes a lot of sense. You can’t just substitute NB for DK with the same gear setup and expect it to work as well, you need to cater your spec to your class.

I think ebon plus plague doctor will be the best, but I don’t tank so I’m not sure. Use Dark Cloak like an always rolling self heal rather then a burst heal.

Tanking specs sure will change: merciless plus incap on tank builds, weird but if it works it works.

Mitigation wise Nb Tanks are fine without Merciless while wearing th typical tanksets at endgame, believe me, do it all the time. Merciless however is such a freaking strong buff to tankiness (if u wanna use it).

The new dark cloak is something i rly like.

dark cloak live on my build 3618 non crit / 6331 crit
dark cloak pts same build 2914 non crit / 5015 critical

But now it last double the time wich is great tbh ^^

@actosh

Any chance you could help me fine tune a spec I want to try for pve tanking? I want to try a magicka tank for vet dungeons. Why? Because.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=142936

Basicly the spec involves reducing block costs so I can use magicka for abilities, with hopefully the absorb stamina enchant on my front bar being enough. ESOwiki says the block cost will be down to just under 400 on both bars with 85% block mitigation.

I haven’t played around much with tanking so was hoping someone who tanks could help me fine tune the build, because I’m not exactly sure what I’ll need or if it would work. Basicly a sap tankish style.

Insco851 · May 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering Rapid regen heals every 1.5-2 seconds for 900ish- (correct me if I’m
Wrong on the time frame, I know it ain’t every 1 sec) -Dark cloak healing every second for 700~ on a 23-24k pvp spec... it’s pretty solid. Also more minor protection uptime.

Non shade visible build is pretty tough. Rat or shade and idk if rat will be enough by itself. And with the cripple nerf... where’s the major expedition come from then?

Bar space on magblade got tougher this patch

the two were almost identical in healing output least PTS iteration where I tested a pvp magblade with around 27k hp. With the current buffs and a littly higher HP pool of ~30k I think it will significantly outperform rapids.

Even though I've almost advocated to run light armor on every magblade build, even tanks, I might now look into heavy once again.

I’m fairly certain rapid ticks much slower than dark cloak so it has a small advantage even if the total healing output ends up the same over the same time frame. 1400 in 2 seconds or 1800 in 4~?

Also the last pts cycle, 4.5%? Or the latest 6%. Last cycle my 23-24k build would get 500~ sec. THAT would be damn near identical to rapid at 900~ every 2.

I could be missing something but I can’t see how dark cloak isn’t already out healing rapid.

27k build - 810 per sec. that’s nearly twice as effective as rapid. Combine this with a touch of health regen... and you should be g2g

Jeezye · May 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering Rapid regen heals every 1.5-2 seconds for 900ish- (correct me if I’m
Wrong on the time frame, I know it ain’t every 1 sec) -Dark cloak healing every second for 700~ on a 23-24k pvp spec... it’s pretty solid. Also more minor protection uptime.

Non shade visible build is pretty tough. Rat or shade and idk if rat will be enough by itself. And with the cripple nerf... where’s the major expedition come from then?

Bar space on magblade got tougher this patch

the two were almost identical in healing output least PTS iteration where I tested a pvp magblade with around 27k hp. With the current buffs and a littly higher HP pool of ~30k I think it will significantly outperform rapids.

Even though I've almost advocated to run light armor on every magblade build, even tanks, I might now look into heavy once again.

I’m fairly certain rapid ticks much slower than dark cloak so it has a small advantage even if the total healing output ends up the same over the same time frame. 1400 in 2 seconds or 1800 in 4~?

Also the last pts cycle, 4.5%? Or the latest 6%. Last cycle my 23-24k build would get 500~ sec. THAT would be damn near identical to rapid at 900~ every 2.

I could be missing something but I can’t see how dark cloak isn’t already out healing rapid.

27k build - 810 per sec. that’s nearly twice as effective as rapid. Combine this with a touch of health regen... and you should be g2g

I just compated healing numbers of severl duels and noticed both dark cloak and rapids have identical overall healing output, that is with 100% uptime of both. with the buff to 6% and a touch more hp it should be noticably better

actosh · May 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, just adapt a bit and I’m sure you guys will be okay. With the changes to merciless being a HP tank makes a lot of sense. You can’t just substitute NB for DK with the same gear setup and expect it to work as well, you need to cater your spec to your class.

I think ebon plus plague doctor will be the best, but I don’t tank so I’m not sure. Use Dark Cloak like an always rolling self heal rather then a burst heal.

Tanking specs sure will change: merciless plus incap on tank builds, weird but if it works it works.

Mitigation wise Nb Tanks are fine without Merciless while wearing th typical tanksets at endgame, believe me, do it all the time. Merciless however is such a freaking strong buff to tankiness (if u wanna use it).

The new dark cloak is something i rly like.

dark cloak live on my build 3618 non crit / 6331 crit
dark cloak pts same build 2914 non crit / 5015 critical

But now it last double the time wich is great tbh ^^

@actosh

Any chance you could help me fine tune a spec I want to try for pve tanking? I want to try a magicka tank for vet dungeons. Why? Because.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=142936

Basicly the spec involves reducing block costs so I can use magicka for abilities, with hopefully the absorb stamina enchant on my front bar being enough. ESOwiki says the block cost will be down to just under 400 on both bars with 85% block mitigation.

I haven’t played around much with tanking so was hoping someone who tanks could help me fine tune the build, because I’m not exactly sure what I’ll need or if it would work. Basicly a sap tankish style.

will take a look either today or tomorrow, raiding right now and need to see if time, but i try to help u

Insco851 · May 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering Rapid regen heals every 1.5-2 seconds for 900ish- (correct me if I’m
Wrong on the time frame, I know it ain’t every 1 sec) -Dark cloak healing every second for 700~ on a 23-24k pvp spec... it’s pretty solid. Also more minor protection uptime.

Non shade visible build is pretty tough. Rat or shade and idk if rat will be enough by itself. And with the cripple nerf... where’s the major expedition come from then?

Bar space on magblade got tougher this patch

the two were almost identical in healing output least PTS iteration where I tested a pvp magblade with around 27k hp. With the current buffs and a littly higher HP pool of ~30k I think it will significantly outperform rapids.

Even though I've almost advocated to run light armor on every magblade build, even tanks, I might now look into heavy once again.

I’m fairly certain rapid ticks much slower than dark cloak so it has a small advantage even if the total healing output ends up the same over the same time frame. 1400 in 2 seconds or 1800 in 4~?

Also the last pts cycle, 4.5%? Or the latest 6%. Last cycle my 23-24k build would get 500~ sec. THAT would be damn near identical to rapid at 900~ every 2.

I could be missing something but I can’t see how dark cloak isn’t already out healing rapid.

27k build - 810 per sec. that’s nearly twice as effective as rapid. Combine this with a touch of health regen... and you should be g2g

I just compated healing numbers of severl duels and noticed both dark cloak and rapids have identical overall healing output, that is with 100% uptime of both. with the buff to 6% and a touch more hp it should be noticably better

The 1.5% buff is actually pretty significant.
27k health at 4.5 = 607.5
27k health at 6% = 810

Iron_Blurr · May 2019

So it went from 4.5% to 6%.. Are we supposed to be thankful??
A tank with 45k health casting live dark cloak. 32% of 45k = 14400 healing. 14400/3 seconds = 4800 health per second.
First round of pts changes made it 4.5%..
So 45k hp * 0.045 = 2025 health per second.
With this new slight buff its now 6% per second.
So 45k hp * 0.06 = 2700 health per second.
But its still way weaker than it was originally. And even originally it was weaker than dk self heal, sorc self heal, warden self heal, and even templar self heal.
I don't think the devs understand that tanks need immediate healing for high incoming burst damage. Some examples are vHrc hm when warrior is channeling his heavy. A hot will help but wont save you from death if a healer is down or stoned.
Another example is in vCr as a portal tank you get leeching shadow on you and have to heal to heal yourself back up fast when you are about to get heavy attacked.
Guys this "buff" simply puts it on par with a tank using vigor as a self heal. My tank has like 1200-1800 weapon damage and resolving vigor still heals for more than this new dark cloak change. The question is why bother slotting dark cloak at all???

actosh · May 2019

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

So it went from 4.5% to 6%.. Are we supposed to be thankful??
A tank with 45k health casting live dark cloak. 32% of 45k = 14400 healing. 14400/3 seconds = 4800 health per second.
First round of pts changes made it 4.5%..
So 45k hp * 0.045 = 2025 health per second.
With this new slight buff its now 6% per second.
So 45k hp * 0.06 = 2700 health per second.
But its still way weaker than it was originally. And even originally it was weaker than dk self heal, sorc self heal, warden self heal, and even templar self heal.
I don't think the devs understand that tanks need immediate healing for high incoming burst damage. Some examples are vHrc hm when warrior is channeling his heavy. A hot will help but wont save you from death if a healer is down or stoned.
Another example is in vCr as a portal tank you get leeching shadow on you and have to heal to heal yourself back up fast when you are about to get heavy attacked.
Guys this "buff" simply puts it on par with a tank using vigor as a self heal. My tank has like 1200-1800 weapon damage and resolving vigor still heals for more than this new dark cloak change. The question is why bother slotting dark cloak at all???

Every NB Tank would like to have a heal thats more frontloaded, like 20% upfront and rest as dot, but zos wont do it, glad they gave us the 1.5%.